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DEVILDOGOOORAH posted:the whole have degree = magically commission??? thing is kind of overblown around here, it's not nearly as simple and a long drawn out process with it ending most likely in not being accepted. But but but if VIK had finished his degree he could have commissioned on a whim and been a magical graduate of OCS!! Becoming an officer is just as easy as enlisting and the only differences between being enlisted and an officer are better pay and not picking up cigarette butts for Staff Sarn't!!!! Being an Officer is the greatest thing ever and its the only way you should ever be in the military if you have a degree!!!! (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 13, 2013 22:52
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GAS CURES KIKES posted:But but but if VIK had finished his degree he could have commissioned on a whim and been a magical graduate of OCS!! Becoming an officer is just as easy as enlisting and the only differences between being enlisted and an officer are better pay and not picking up cigarette butts for Staff Sarn't!!!! Being an Officer is the greatest thing ever and its the only way you should ever be in the military if you have a degree!!!! Could you be a bigger loving lifer? Why don't you regale us with more of your bullshit stories about how you were such a badass in the AF you butthurt little bitch.
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Jan 13, 2013 22:53
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vacation in kabul posted:I'm not, you're typing out huge replies trying to justify an absolutely ridiculous, retarded assertion you're making. Here, read this:  Not only is the real value of a college degree a joke in many cases, particularly now and particularly when weighed against its costs, but your blind faith that having a degree equates to economic security makes me laugh. You never stopped being a shiftless stupid college student. Look at you-- you've got "Two cars and a house!!" and unemployment insurance to boot. You've got this financial security thing on lock down VIK, tell us more about how we could do this better. I'm not saying the only economic security that exists is joining the military. I'm just saying that enlisting in the military is one path a person can take. It made a hell of a lot more economic sense than going into debt for a college degree with a questionable economic outcome in the end for me, and it worked out alright. Again, you're kind of being a oval office. vacation in kabul posted:Could you be a bigger loving lifer? Why don't you regale us with more of your bullshit stories about how you were such a badass in the AF you butthurt little bitch. Ah there we go, good sensible VIK posting. You should take a few deep breaths, and drive one of your two cars(!!!) around your house(!!!) abit and calm down. You're taking someone disagreeing with you about enlisting/commissioning rather personal  OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jan 13, 2013 |
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Jan 13, 2013 22:57
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GAS CURES KIKES posted:
I'm not being a oval office, you're just really, really, really, really, really stupid. edit: You're repeating a bunch of stuff that I've heard people who are generally unsuccessful in life say. Interestingly enough most of those people are in the military. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 13, 2013 22:58
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vacation in kabul posted:Right, but if you can't get a commission you shouldn't be looking at the military if you have a college degree. What should he be looking at, then?
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Jan 13, 2013 23:01
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Oxford Comma posted:What should he be looking at, then? The guy who Shimazu is suggesting enlist already said he has no interest in enlisting and would have to get turned down by a bunch of other places before he thought of it, so ask him I guess.
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Jan 13, 2013 23:03
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VIK no one is saying enlisting with a degree is the best idea. They're saying that hey, maybe if this guy hasn't been able to find a loving job for 2+ years after law school, it's not such a terrible option. Yeah, he should try and commission first if he can, but odds are slim that he will be able to. As for your experience, you were in combat arms. Not every branch is combat arms. Life in intel is pretty loving easy. I can count on my fingers the amount of times I was stuck doing janitor bullshit. No, the military isn't perfect, but it's not bad, and the benefits it gives you are loving great. This is a chance for this dude to erase all his student loan debt and get a fresh start, instead of paying it off until he's 45. Yes, having a college degree is a good thing. No one is denying that. But the paradigm is no longer "have degree = great job" automatically the way that it used to be. Just because the dude has a degree doesn't mean that he will be able to find a decent job. The military is a chance for him to wipe out the debt that he already accrued, and avoid accruing more if he needs retraining to be marketable. While I was in, and when I first got out, I fully subscribed to the FTA mindset like you do. But looking back now that I've been out a while, it gave me a ton. I made a bunch of money as a contractor, and now I get paid to go to school, which is also free. The military isn't really that bad at all.
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Jan 13, 2013 23:04
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To whoever asked the question that kicked this little argument off, here's the long and the short: Officer is much more cushy, you get paid a dick load more, but you've got more responsibility. Enlisted is pretty gay, the money isn't great especially if you aren't married, but you can game it a bit. For example, with the army, don't get anything but 35 series in your contract. You get a clearance, actual job skills that relate well to the outside world, and it isn't as super mega gay as the rest of the army. And that's pretty much it.
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Jan 13, 2013 23:04
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vacation in kabul posted:I'm not being a oval office, you're just really, really, really, really, really stupid. RARGH. I HEARD PEOPLE SAY THIS BEFORE AND THEY WEREN'T AS SUCCESSFUL AS ME WITH BOTH OF MY CARS AND MY HOUSE. RARGH. I AM VIK. RARGH I TAKE THE INTERNET SERIOUSLY. If I just quoted the gently caress out of Tony Robbins would that make you happier? Because he's a p. successful dude. I mean I was just trying to offer up an alternative for the guy to think about, not tell him exactly what he should do with his life, but I mean.. you're the loving guru and all man. Tell us more about what people should do w/ their lives in order to get two cars (!!!) and a house(!!!).
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Jan 13, 2013 23:05
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I'm enlisted and have 3 cars 
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Jan 13, 2013 23:06
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GAS CURES KIKES posted:Tell us more about what people should do w/ their lives in order to get two cars (!!!) and a house(!!!). Why do you keep going on and on about this when I said it in defense of the indefensibly stupid thing you're suggesting?
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Jan 13, 2013 23:08
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DEVILDOGOOORAH posted:I'm enlisted and have 3 cars but no motorcycle? a shameful enlisted also taking life advice from an unemployed former artillery guy who spent 4 years in college with no degree sounds like an awesome plan
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Jan 13, 2013 23:09
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DEVILDOGOOORAH posted:I'm enlisted and have 3 cars You must have been really good @ enlisted. Screw VIK's advice, I want this mans advice. t/f if I enlist will I actually make less money throughout my life and wind up living in the shadow/gutters of people with two cars(!!!) and a house(!!!)?? DRONES CURE HAJI posted:but no motorcycle? a shameful enlisted I don't think you get it man. This guy has it on lockdown, his lifestyle is baller as gently caress, with his multiple cars, and a home. I mean he'd be on cribs if he didn't think MTV stopped being cool when they didn't air his sisters episode of 16 and pregnant. VIK, do us a solid and start sperging out some more and maybe get all internet offended and stuff. It's p. much the funniest thing ever. OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Jan 13, 2013 |
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Jan 13, 2013 23:09
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DRONES CURE HAJI posted:also taking life advice from an unemployed former artillery guy who spent 4 years in college with no degree sounds like an awesome plan I never said I'm a genius, but taking advice from an admitted alcoholic who is supposedly a trailer park jew with marital and mental problems who lies about what he did in the military and is generally the scummiest-sounding person here is an even worse idea.
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Jan 13, 2013 23:12
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vacation in kabul posted:I never said I'm a genius, but taking advice from an admitted alcoholic who is supposedly a trailer park jew with marital and mental problems who lies about what he did in the military and is generally the scummiest-sounding person here is an even worse idea. I'm lol'ing brother. I'm lol'ing hard. Keep raging.
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Jan 13, 2013 23:15
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GAS CURES KIKES posted:I'm lol'ing brother. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDbIxIS2KWE Also a dude who likes his internet voice to sound like Hulk Hogan.
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Jan 13, 2013 23:18
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vacation in kabul posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDbIxIS2KWE Hey man, you can trash the fact that I'm a jewy bastard, but don't disrespect the Hulkamania. C'mon. Show some respect. Edit: BROTHER. OMFG PTSD LOL PBUH fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jan 13, 2013 |
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Jan 13, 2013 23:19
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vacation in kabul posted:Could you be a bigger loving lifer? Why don't you regale us with more of your bullshit stories about how you were such a badass in the AF you butthurt little bitch. Jesus, you're so blinded by your lovely enlisted experience that you can't grasp the concept that enlisting with a degree might actually be a better option for someone than commissioning. This guy has been unemployed two years, has a degree that no doubt would only get him into JAG, which is something he definitely does not want to do, and isn't a self starter. Yeah, I'm sure any branch would be falling over themselves to give him a commission. There are exceptions to any rule, and this sounds like one of the rare exceptions to the 'don't enlist with a degree' rule if he can't get a better job through one of the alphabet agencies or something.
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Jan 13, 2013 23:27
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Even the Army doesn't want officers for whom the Army was plan B. Maybe 5 years ago, but now definitely not. Honestly having a JD would work against you; unless you're going JAG, people are going to ask what the gently caress your problem is because they expect people to have had the military factor into their planning from at least college. And, right or wrong, from the point of view of your average lifer, the Army is at least as hard as being a lawyer so if you failed at that, they will be baised against you. In a way though this whole question is academic and takes care of itself, because if you get an OCS contract you still have to prove you want it enough to graduate basic and OCS, which takes a modicum of effort. If you fail you end up enlisted anyway. If you can't get a contract for OCS you never join or end up enlisted anyway (the risk here is if you do fail OCS you'll be reclassed needs of the Army which pretty much means 13D or some other insanely hard/bullshit/unwanted MOS, which is a fate pretty much as far from what you want as possible). Honestly if you admit to basically not being all that motivated and are just looking for a package that takes care of you and doesn't require that much, the entire system of enlisting itself is at least partly aimed at exactly that mindset, so it might be a good investment to just ride out the cushiest possible enlisted assignment you can get. Also, being an officer sucks a huge dick too, so while you get paid more, lets not pretend its the answer for someone looking for a bullshit-lite experience. That guy who said that the bar is generally low, except for a select few trivial things, and then its ludicrously high, had it right. The smarter you are the more this will bother you, not just because of the stupid emphasis on trivialties, but because any heartfelt concern for actually doing good things is turned into outright frustration and rage over the inefficiency and indifference of the system. Sometimes I think only people that play the game well for personal gain, but who have little personal stake in trying to be a legitimately good leader, can succeed, because if you care too much it will drive you insane. The other side is people who are dumb, but they don't usually go that far, they just go long. Irrational Man fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Jan 14, 2013 |
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Jan 13, 2013 23:42
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Jesus Christ, I did not mean to kick off a flame war. Everyone relax. I asked for VIKs insight because his viewpoint seems common. "Don't join, military is code word for bottom of a bucket of human waste, you'll hate it... But I don't regret it personally." I was just looking for a better articulated explaination, as that view seems contradictory.
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Jan 14, 2013 01:49
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JesusDoesVegas posted:Jesus Christ, I did not mean to kick off a flame war. Everyone relax. Lots of people have differing opinions about it, so its good not to just hear one and take it as the gospel Also we argue all the time about real dumb poo poo ain't no thang
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Jan 14, 2013 01:51
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JesusDoesVegas posted:Jesus Christ, I did not mean to kick off a flame war. Everyone relax. Secret Spoon posted:A lot of resentment from any part of the military comes from the self inflicted pain that comes from being enlisted. You will be treated like a teenager for at least a year, and probably a lot longer than that. Don't rush it, I am always confused as to why people NEED to speed through the process to reach an end goal that will: Here is a quote from like 4 pages ago, can't wait to drink your tears while I am a civilian. Also I would like to meat an O who has to deal with this kind of poo poo and get paid below about 29k a year.
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Jan 14, 2013 02:37
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Secret Spoon posted:Also I would like to meat an O who has to deal with this kind of poo poo and get paid below about 29k a year. Freudian slip?
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Jan 14, 2013 02:39
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GAS CURES KIKES posted:Freudian slip? I was going to fix it but it sounds way better this way.
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Jan 14, 2013 02:40
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LEGIT WAR CRIMINAL posted:Jesus, you're so blinded by your lovely enlisted experience that you can't grasp the concept that enlisting with a degree might actually be a better option for someone than commissioning. This guy has been unemployed two years, has a degree that no doubt would only get him into JAG, which is something he definitely does not want to do, and isn't a self starter. Yeah, I'm sure any branch would be falling over themselves to give him a commission. There are exceptions to any rule, and this sounds like one of the rare exceptions to the 'don't enlist with a degree' rule if he can't get a better job through one of the alphabet agencies or something. He's been unemployed for a couple of months, not years, and it's not surprising given the fact that any field requiring a Law degree is absolutely oversaturated right now. A ton of people ran straight to law school to try and retrain and be competitive in the workforce, but the last couple of years have shown that there are only a finite number of lawyers needed and there are way too many of them out there right now. I think the most ridiculous thing (that I forgot to bring up earlier, my bad) is that it's being suggested to him that he enlist to take advantage of the CLRP/SLRP offered by the branches. The only problem is that it isn't unlimited, and if he went to a private college followed by law school and barely made a dent in his student loans payments enlisting to use the CLRP isn't going to come anywhere close to covering what he owes. Private school + law school could equal over 100k in student loans easy, and the absolute max by federal law is 65k for the CLRP. Even worse is that, as far as I know, only the Army and Navy are even currently offering it (http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/clrp.htm) . So that would leave out the AF, Marines, and CG. And if he is really drowning in student debt explain to me how enlisting and making 20k a year to start off is going to solve that? JesusDoesVegas posted:Jesus Christ, I did not mean to kick off a flame war. Everyone relax. It's not contradictory once you live it. There a bunch of positives and a bunch of negatives (to varying degrees depending on the branch, job, and unit you wind up in) and some people can deal with the negatives for 20 years and others can't. edit: For example, my experience sounds about 30x better than Secret Spoon's. vacation in kabul fucked around with this message at 02:44 on Jan 14, 2013 |
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Jan 14, 2013 02:42
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Uh... thanks guys. Clearing up a couple things 1) I didn't fail at being a lawyer. I realized about halfway through that it sucks, but finished the degree anyway. It has nothing to do with my inability to handle it. 2) I haven't been unemployed for 2 years; it's been that long since I graduated from law school, but only about 2 months since I've been unemployed. The self starter thing is maybe a tad overblown; I think a lot of it has more to do with not having any real goals to pursue once I realized the thing I had been working toward my entire life was something that I completely and utterly hated doing. Anyway, maybe I wouldn't be a tremendously hot commodity, but this is an option I was considering and wanted some opinions. Just from a quality of life aspect I don't think I would like being enlisted and I would have to fall further than where I'm at now to view it as a good option. Maybe if I am unemployed for 2 years though! And it's not like I'm going to show up and say "hey guys, I'm reallllllly lazy! Gimme money and power!"
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Jan 14, 2013 02:53
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It is also really insulting to both all the enlisted and to the dude asking questions, "He isn't high speed enough to be an officer! Be enlisted its a cake walk". What absolute poo poo, should be embarrassed. Have some humble pie before you think you are special and only officers take "leadership" positions and are doing "motivated" crap. I have to do of the quarter boards, I have to take time to sort my people out, I have to write and review evals. All of that on top of having another actual job. E:^^ well heads up, those are the people that you want to work with
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Jan 14, 2013 02:55
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Nimmy posted:Uh... thanks guys. Clearing up a couple things No no, clearly anyone who graduated from law school is a lazy borderline retard. It's amazing you can even breathe. Contact your local recruiting station ASAP, there are no other jobs for you out there because all people with college degrees are unemployed right now. V/R SGT Johnson Recruiter
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Jan 14, 2013 03:00
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Secret Spoon posted:E:^^ well heads up, those are the people that you want to work with Better than lawyers.
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Jan 14, 2013 03:00
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Nimmy posted:Better than lawyers. Im saving this quote just in case.
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Jan 14, 2013 03:02
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Nimmy posted:Uh... thanks guys. Clearing up a couple things In regards to #1: I think you are right at drawing that distinction, but this is exactly why the Army is gay-- they will conflate "did not want" with "could not" every time. Reason has no place in the structure and if anything your lawyer training will make you hate it even more because its such a miscarriage of justice. If you enjoy these types of arguments, with the condition that you will never win, the Army might be for you.
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Jan 14, 2013 05:17
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Could anyone give me a rundown of how being a CTN compares to similar MOSs in other branches? I've read a lot on these forums about being a CTN / 25 series, but not so much about AF field 3D and literally nothing about USMC field 06 (which I suspect may be telling in and of itself). Something tells me the 3D field is the most lucrative of them all. I am enlisting within the year (ignore the avatar) and even though I've settled on what general category of work I want to do, I'm conflicted on branch. I guess it'll come down to what will benefit me the most on the outside once I'm done with my 4 years; does any particular branch offer more tech-related benefits (like certifications and poo poo) than the others? I come from a military family so I've been subjected to some bias, I just want to know what will benefit me most overall once I actually leave the service. Saying I want to do anything but infantry to my devil dog relatives is a shibboleth. 
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Jan 14, 2013 09:34
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I saw 25B's (which are the helpdesk dudes IIRC) leave the Army with tons of certs or no certs at all, and I'd say for the most part it came down to whether they wanted them or not. From what I could tell the folks that really wanted to work and diversified their skillsets were given all of the opportunities, while the folks that wanted to sham and couldn't even install a printer properly generally got 0 opportunities. Some of that was based on where they wound up working too, there were tons of some positions (heldpesk) and only one for others (Information Assurance) and along with that came very different opportunities. I haven't been out too long, and if I remember from the conversations I had with our helpdesk folks (I worked really closely with them) the Army generally paid for Security+, A+, and Net+. If you want to go after something like a CCNA I'm pretty sure you can use tuition assistance to pay for both a class and the testing, and I know for a fact you can use the GI Bill to pay for that stuff once you're out. I knew a fair number of people who went out and got a bunch of certifications on their own.
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Jan 14, 2013 16:03
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There are travelling classes that go around the Army for more difficult certs, like CCNA and CISSP. That's how I got my CCNA. It's all completely free for soldiers.
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Jan 14, 2013 16:21
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Wow that's nice. Did they send anyone who wanted to go? I know they did that with A+ and Security+ where I was stationed not long before I got out. I remember we had a dude with a CCNA but like I said before I'm pretty sure he did it on his own.
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Jan 14, 2013 17:28
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IT guys got first priority, but it was open to anyone who wanted to go if it wasn't full of them. I was an intel guy, but just signed up and went. I signed up for the CISSP class too, but it got dropped because not enough people signed up.
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Jan 14, 2013 18:53
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I wonder if this program is an active duty only thing. Even with a non-signal MOS I still get to play with a lot of computer stuff including some Cisco routers so I suppose I might have a justification in going. I'll take some free certs if they're handing them out.
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Jan 14, 2013 20:09
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I was a non-signal MOS with an additional duty that dealt exclusively with what our helpdesk guys did and I never got into the A+ or Sec+ classes because of my MOS.
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Jan 14, 2013 20:39
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root beer posted:Could anyone give me a rundown of how being a CTN compares to similar MOSs in other branches? I've read a lot on these forums about being a CTN / 25 series, but not so much about AF field 3D and literally nothing about USMC field 06 (which I suspect may be telling in and of itself). For Army a really close parellel to CTN is actually under the 35 series as 35T. I worked with two individual augmentee CTNs in Afghanistan as a 35T myself and once I got done giving them poo poo for being in a land locked country they had a pretty good handle on about 2/3 of the stuff that a 35T was trained in. 35T is sort of a weird bastard child of intel and maintenance that has bounced back and forth between MOS codes so often most people know it by two or three different codes. It's currently under the intel umbrella because all of the maintenance it does is for intel specifically. It also gives a TS/SCI clearance, 3M fiber certification and you have to pay for your own test, since the Army won't spring for it in AIT, but the training covers everything you need for CCNA. The big thing you come across as a 35T is that you're trained up in a huge variety of systems and techniques because there is absolutely no way to tell what you're going to work on in the "big army". My duties alone consisted of everything from trouble shooting coffee makers (insert officer joke here) to fixed wing air planes and active directory/IT network administration. Other guys that I graduated with have done UAV maintenance or satellite communications.
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Jan 14, 2013 20:43
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root beer posted:Could anyone give me a rundown of how being a CTN compares to similar MOSs in other branches? I've read a lot on these forums about being a CTN / 25 series, but not so much about AF field 3D and literally nothing about USMC field 06 (which I suspect may be telling in and of itself). Great use of shibboleth What exactly are you wanting to do when you leave service? If you're wanting to just do IT work, the MOS'/rates/AFSC's we can recommend are a little different than if you wanted to specifically do stuff like infosec and hacking type work. They're also somewhat different if you wanted to be on the programming side of IT or if maybe you wanted to go into the intelligence gathering/mx side of government IT work. There is a great deal of cross over, venn diagram wise, between a lot of these but if you've got your heart set on something specific or at least a good idea of where you'd like to land as a civilian we can probably offer up a better recommendation.
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Jan 14, 2013 22:31
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