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Yeah, I don't know that the fact that he subscribes to a more subtle and pervasive form of sexism makes it inappropriate for him to recognize, comment on, or have distaste for the more obvious types.Notahippie posted:To me, that just suggests that Rothfuss is in the same boat a lot of people with stunted social skills are, where he genuinely unaware of how patronizing and creepy the putting women on a pedestal thing is. Oh yeah, I think this has been obvious for some time really.
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Dec 27, 2012 21:46
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Alright, boys and girls, if you analyze anything as much as we've analyzed these books, you're going to find blemishes. I have my problems with it too, but concentrating on the problems is kinda petty.
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Dec 28, 2012 14:31
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Kynetx posted:Alright, boys and girls, if you analyze anything as much as we've analyzed these books, you're going to find blemishes. I have my problems with it too, but concentrating on the problems is kinda petty. The mighty Kynetx has spoken, we're now only allowed to talk about how we love Mr. Rothfuss' masterpiece. Anything else is petty, don't you know.
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Dec 28, 2012 15:30
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Flatscan posted:The mighty Kynetx has spoken, we're now only allowed to talk about how we love Mr. Rothfuss' masterpiece. Anything else is petty, don't you know. That's not remotely what I mean. This is turning/has turned into a vitriolic thread, when I think there are some cool things to discuss.
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Dec 28, 2012 21:05
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I just finished Wise Man's Fear, and thought that the books were great. I really enjoyed them. I also think that most of the criticism in this thread is valid.
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Dec 28, 2012 21:15
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Kynetx posted:That's not remotely what I mean. This is turning/has turned into a vitriolic thread, when I think there are some cool things to discuss.
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Dec 29, 2012 01:35
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Anyone got any interesting thoughts on Skarpi? I'm thinking that he'll probably show up in book 3, considering that he's mentioned so much, with no real explanations.
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Dec 29, 2012 02:17
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Tayacan posted:Anyone got any interesting thoughts on Skarpi? I'm thinking that he'll probably show up in book 3, considering that he's mentioned so much, with no real explanations. I'm thinking Skarpi is definitely Amyr and that they are somehow spreading knowledge/keeping knowledge alive through teaching kids songs and stories. (Maybe because written history has a way of disappearing and the writers and their families getting killed) See; Kids are the ones singing about Chandrians and Lady Lackless and probably other things that hold kernels of truth. Him teaching a load of kids the secret of Lanre. Any thoughts? edit; And the more I think about songs and poems I realize I really appreciate them in this story. They're all generally good, fun, creepy or informative. Affi fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Dec 29, 2012 |
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Dec 29, 2012 13:25
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I just read the first book. My favorite part happened right after he gave that lecture in place of his teacher. "At this point I used one of the tricks of the stage. There is a certain inflection of voice and body language that signals a crowd to applaud. I cannot explain how it is done, but it had its intended effect. " Hmm, I swear I have read something like this before. Maybe if I rearrange some of the wording... This troper experienced his crowning moment of awesome badassness when his professor told him "if you're so smart, why don't you give the lecture today". In spite of the professor not really being serious, this troper got up and gave the entire lecture by himself. When it was over, everyone stood up and applauded." Yeah, that sounds about right. VomitCannon fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jan 3, 2013 |
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Jan 3, 2013 00:54
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Well, there are certain things you can do when up in front of a crowd of people that, if you do them at the right time, can get them to applaud. It's tough to explain but it's not a matter of being such a badass that everyone just has to applaud you or something. It's more like tapping into social convention - people will unconsciously act in certain ways, like if you hold out a hand to someone you're meeting, they'll go to shake it before even thinking about it, generally. As a lifelong entertainer Kvothe presumably did that sort of thing. It's less about him being so awesome that they had no choice to applaud and more about him tipping a group of people who are like "uh did he just do that" into the "well I guess we're applauding him now" category.
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Jan 3, 2013 01:51
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As true as this is, "and then I gave the lecture in place of my rear end in a top hat professor and everyone applauded at the end" is classic shitthatdidnthappen.txt material. I dunno, that bit didn't bother me exactly, but is dumb.
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Jan 3, 2013 02:00
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I realize that it isn't a perfect comparison, but that's what I thought of when reading that part.
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Jan 3, 2013 02:33
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I'm sure I'm not the only one who compulsively starts applauding when people around me do, usually in an audience of some sort. Sometimes I even catch myself from joining the television in a round of applause. I guess I'm weak minded or something. 
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Jan 3, 2013 02:58
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syphon posted:I'm sure I'm not the only one who compulsively starts applauding when people around me do, usually in an audience of some sort. Sometimes I even catch myself from joining the television in a round of applause. I guess I'm weak minded or something. Kvothe posted:I saw Ghostrider with a bunch of my friends on opening night just to heckle it. We even held a contest to see who could throw out the best heckle.
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Jan 3, 2013 04:09
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From that Boys review: quote:4. The theme that men need women to keep them from spiraling out of control and becoming deranged, violent, world-destroying assholes. This is in the list of good things. God why are you such a creepy goon, Rothfuss.
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Jan 3, 2013 07:12
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neongrey posted:As true as this is, "and then I gave the lecture in place of my rear end in a top hat professor and everyone applauded at the end" is classic shitthatdidnthappen.txt material. This is gonna sound especially funny in light of the fact that I complained about how ridiculous of a character Kvothe is earlier, but I've substituted for colleagues twice and had students spontaneously applaud at the end. I think it has to do with the novelty of someone else in front of the classroom, and being more energetic and fun than their normal professors. There is a certain stage presence you can adopt to invite an audience reaction, too, like bowing with a flourish at the end is a signal to clap. I don't have a problem believing that students would clap for a student who upstages their professor and gives an entertaining lecture. The ridiculous part is that the professor is a cartoonish rear end in a top hat who hands Kvothe the perfect setup to completely undermine his classroom in the first place. I've been in academia for a while and very rarely run into anyone who behaves remotely similar to Kvothe's antagonists. I've definitely run into a lot of students who think they're Kvothe though (they're not). Oddly enough I've also experienced a movie theater turning into a riff fest once, a showing of The Village in a drunken college town.
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Jan 3, 2013 08:32
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Chomposaur posted:This is gonna sound especially funny in light of the fact that I complained about how ridiculous of a character Kvothe is earlier, but I've substituted for colleagues twice and had students spontaneously applaud at the end. I think it has to do with the novelty of someone else in front of the classroom, and being more energetic and fun than their normal professors. There is a certain stage presence you can adopt to invite an audience reaction, too, like bowing with a flourish at the end is a signal to clap. I don't have a problem believing that students would clap for a student who upstages their professor and gives an entertaining lecture.
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Jan 3, 2013 08:54
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Finished the second book a couple of days ago. Do people really think Kvothe was faking when he lost the fight with the soldier(s)? I thought it was pretty clear that he and his abilities are a shadow of their former selves. Him looking surprised when the two-handed Adem grip escape thing failed just doesn't line up with him throwing the fight. The laughing on the floor and "I almost forgot who I was there" I took as meaning "I almost forgot I'm no longer a mega badass". I like the theory of him losing his name/sympathy/good left hand on some oath - in the Three Silence intro/outros specifically mention the fact that there's never any music at the inn, and Bast tells Chronicler not to speak about it or his magic (and we have a similar scene of failure to the fight with the magic, when he fails to ignite the possessed guy). I also kinda think Denna might be the moon. The moving around and disappearing lines up with the story about the moon having to go back and forth, and the constantly changing her name thing might be because her real name is locked up in the Lackless Box. Jack the Lad fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jan 4, 2013 |
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Jan 4, 2013 17:24
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Jack the Lad posted:I also kinda think Denna might be the moon. The moving around and disappearing lines up with the story about the moon having to go back and forth, and the constantly changing her name thing might be because her real name is locked up in the Lackless Box. The whole series has been building up to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vr9xPqGD8o
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Jan 4, 2013 23:44
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I think that Denna is Sailor Moon. My evidence is that the moon is mentioned an awful lot and Rothfuss has a goony beard so he probably watches a lot of anime.
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Jan 5, 2013 00:42
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Jack the Lad posted:I like the theory of him losing his name/sympathy/good left hand on some oath - in the Three Silence intro/outros specifically mention the fact that there's never any music at the inn, and Bast tells Chronicler not to speak about it or his magic (and we have a similar scene of failure to the fight with the magic, when he fails to ignite the possessed guy).
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Jan 7, 2013 19:12
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Aggro posted:These two theories, along with Ambrose being the king that Kvothe kills and Kvothe's mom being Natalia Lackless, completely temper my interest in the final book of the trilogy. They more or less cover the major mysteries in the series, and I would be stunned if any of them turn out to be untrue. And anyway I don't see how he can wrap everything up in one book and I expect more but we'll see.
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Jan 7, 2013 23:26
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casa de mi padre posted:If you're reading books just to "get to the ending" then you're not really enjoying what you read.
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Jan 8, 2013 01:07
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Most books to me are about the journey and a good ending is just aces. A terrible ending sucks but then all Peter F Hamilton's books would be worse (they are not great but I greatly enjoyed the worldbuilding) the world that is explored is so much fun for me I can forgive some crappy writing. I love Blood Song Raven's Shadow because of the world it is in.
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Jan 8, 2013 04:11
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Above Our Own posted:Dude you don't have the One True Way to read books or anything and it's really stupid of you to tell other people that they're not enjoying something, like how the gently caress do you know? Sometimes people enjoy different things or even the same things for different reasons. If you have trouble understanding this then you're probably a giant sperg. This opinion can be expressed without being a dick. Are you meta-sperging? I can't tell with ironic humor. I sort of agree with this point of view. I've heard people say that they'd never read ASOIF because they're all goddamn horse-chokers. They're dauntingly big, but I agree that the point of epic novels is the story and unfolding of events rather than the end-state of the narrative.
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Jan 8, 2013 06:04
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Tangentially related to one of the perpetual discussion points: http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...sciousness.html
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Jan 11, 2013 16:40
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So I put down The Wise Man's Fear sometime in the last year because I got bored (I think I was 200-300 pages in?). To me it just seemed the Kvothe was in school and Ambrose was being an rear end in a top hat and that was it, but this goes on and on for 300 pages. Is it necessary to tell us about that time you couldn't find that book, or Denna wasn't at the bar and nothing of importance happened? It almost reminds me of the episode of MST3K with Merlin's Shop of Mystical Wonders, where Ernest Borgnine is telling his grandson a story, but the story includes real time driving scenes. ("And then the guy with the receding hair drove the blue car carefully signaling his turn, and pulling into a suburban driveway.") I feel like Kvothe is Ernest Borgnine and Chronicler is the grandon. Should I pick it back up again? Does it get better? Does this Ambrose drama ever end or come to a head?
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Jan 12, 2013 19:49
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RebBrownies posted:Should I pick it back up again? Does it get better? Does this Ambrose drama ever end or come to a head?
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Jan 12, 2013 20:05
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Above Our Own posted:The second half of the book is his various adventures around the world. And wrt Ambrose no, not yet. I think the thing that irritated me the most about the second half of that book, was his comment about the pirates. Oh I spent a year with them, did all sorts of stuff but you don't want to hear that, let me go on about my time with Felurian.
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Jan 12, 2013 22:05
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calandryll posted:I think the thing that irritated me the most about the second half of that book, was his comment about the pirates. Oh I spent a year with them, did all sorts of stuff but you don't want to hear that, let me go on about my time with Felurian. I think that part could have been really clever if done right. Having an adventure that's not really important in the grand scheme of things, so why mention it? That sort of thing. Unfortunately, "if done right" entails not preceding it with a few hundred pages of inane school stuff that felt like it was edited out of the first book.
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Jan 13, 2013 03:17
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calandryll posted:I think the thing that irritated me the most about the second half of that book, was his comment about the pirates. Oh I spent a year with them, did all sorts of stuff but you don't want to hear that, let me go on about my time with Felurian. I think that paragraph is my favorite of the book. Different strokes, I guess.
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Jan 13, 2013 03:28
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Srice posted:edited This is a recent trend I have noticed in many fantasy series lately. There isn't an editor that will stand up to the author and say cut some things out. Why do fantasy books need to be a 1000 page tomes? I've enjoyed both books, and will read the third, but there are some things that could have been edited out or sized down.
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Jan 13, 2013 03:35
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ulmont posted:I think that paragraph is my favorite of the book. Different strokes, I guess. If he never revisits it, or tells a short story about it or anything, that will make it a pretty legit line. But Patrick Rothfuss is probably not taking a pot shot at a common fantasy trope here, he's just making it easy to cash in later with a book or short story.
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Jan 13, 2013 10:13
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If he had some sort of history of doing that sort of thing I guess I might be more inclined to believe it. What makes you say that?
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Jan 13, 2013 10:26
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calandryll posted:I think the thing that irritated me the most about the second half of that book, was his comment about the pirates. Oh I spent a year with them, did all sorts of stuff but you don't want to hear that, let me go on about my time with Felurian. I really encourage everyone who thinks this to read that Jo Walton reread because in going through it, it became pretty clear that he didn't write any scenes that didn't have an overall point to the larger mystery. The pirates and stuff didn't have anything to do with the Chandrian / overall mystery, so he cut it out. Felurian does. That doesn't solve any other problems with the work, like the writing or characterization or anything else that you might not like, but I do think that his choices in terms of what he is writing vs. what he is not are very deliberate.
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Jan 13, 2013 15:47
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calandryll posted:This is a recent trend I have noticed in many fantasy series lately. There isn't an editor that will stand up to the author and say cut some things out. Why do fantasy books need to be a 1000 page tomes? I've enjoyed both books, and will read the third, but there are some things that could have been edited out or sized down. Fantasy authors know that readers need longer books to grind in order to level up their reading skill.
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Jan 14, 2013 23:03
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For good or for ill, World Building is a very prevalent part of modern fantasy novels, so I think it's expected to see some massive tomes like we have been. Some people hate it. Some people like it.
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Jan 15, 2013 02:28
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We're coming up on 2 yeas since Wise Man's Fear, any news on the status of the third book? Part of the fun during the wait for Dance with Dragons was the endless stream of GRRM's comments on how close to finished the book was, then not, then close, then 3 years away.
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Jan 15, 2013 04:05
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syphon posted:For good or for ill, World Building is a very prevalent part of modern fantasy novels, so I think it's expected to see some massive tomes like we have been. Some people hate it. Some people like it. If world building is adding hundreds of pages to a novel, then it's being done badly. Not that it applies in this case, since TWMF's bloat wasn't because of world building but because the plot meanders through a lot of boring poo poo.
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Jan 15, 2013 07:21
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pentyne posted:We're coming up on 2 yeas since Wise Man's Fear, any news on the status of the third book? He recently answered point blank that there's no set publication date.
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Jan 17, 2013 05:14
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