|
Zombies' Downfall posted:I don't understand complaints about this, other than feeling upset that the original party got killed or something. It's a sequel to a game about time travel, about the unexpected consequences of time travel. It doesn't engage with that in a meaningful way though. The explanation is insanely convoluted and the key plot points are only tangentially related to the time travel / multiple timelines conceit-- either someone meddles with time and the universe responds to it in a totally arbitrary way (DINOPOLIS!!), or some vaguely defined entity arbitrarily chooses to do something (the Serge / Lynx backstory with the Frozen Flame) which another character decides to deal with by means of time travel. CT has a pretty tight correspondence between Lavos and time travel, and this relationship drives the plot. Lavos doesn't make arbitrary decisions and designate human beings as computer passwords or whatever; he is either asleep or destroying stuff. The significance of fighting Lavos is demonstrated early in the game, by showing you not only the destruction he causes but the suffering of the survivors. By contrast, try to explain what the importance of the Frozen Flame is, why FATE gets locked out of it (the game says "this circuit did it," but why? how?), why various entities in the game world want it, and what it even does at the end. It's vastly more complicated with no real payoff or significance.
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 22:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 13:16 |
|
|
It's funny how, 25 years later, people still complain about CC killing off like half of CT's cast when in reality the only real casualty was Lucca.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 23:20
|
|
|
Krad posted:It's funny how, 25 years later, people still complain about CC killing off like half of CT's cast when in reality the only real casualty was Lucca. I have fond memories of playing Chrono Cross on my NES.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 23:23
|
|
|
SpazmasterX posted:I have fond memories of playing Chrono Cross on my NES. Wasn't the music wonderful?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7D7yjpqWWtA
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 23:28
|
|
|
Krad posted:It's funny how, 25 years later, people still complain about CC killing off like half of CT's cast when in reality the only real casualty was Lucca. Except Crono and Marle show up as ghosts on Opassa Beach with Lucca, meaning they're dead too, and Robo dies during the events of the game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 23:37
|
|
|
Twelve by Pies posted:Except Crono and Marle show up as ghosts on Opassa Beach with Lucca, meaning they're dead too, and Robo dies during the events of the game. Except that's not Robo, it's a chip that Lucca named "Prometheus" in honor of her friend Robo who wasn't built for hundreds of years after she died. Also, it was explained that those children images weren't the actual Chrono/Lucca/Marle, they were "echoes from a time that never came to pass," or some such. Basically, the game was saying that by changing the future, the cast of CT caused the timelines they "fixed" to be wiped out, and the ghosts were trying to lay a guilt trip for that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 14, 2013 23:49
|
|
|
Twelve by Pies posted:Except Crono and Marle show up as ghosts on Opassa Beach with Lucca, meaning they're dead too, and Robo dies during the events of the game. You misread a couple scenes entirely.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 00:31
|
|
|
Krad posted:Come on SE, it's 2013, what better year than this one to finally release the drat game? The person that did the DE:HR easter egg for Final Fantasy should've made it a poster for Versus. FF26 will probably come out first.  Twelve by Pies posted:Seriously, Chrono Cross has the second-worst method of "leveling" next to FF2. More games need to use Suikoden's leveling system. For a high character count game it should be mandatory because it ensures you aren' stuck wasting weekends leveling characters youmight want to use (even if about 80 of the 108 usually auck horribly and/or aren't combat characters). Complete with the ability to utterly game the gently caress out of it with things like the Fortune Rune. Getting to Warrior Village and then going straight to Neclord's castle with Tir and a character of your choice (Luc, for all of your magic WMD needs) wearing a 2x XP rune, fleeing until you get in to a fight with 5 enemies, using Hell and watching the 2nd character go up in to the 70s felt good and even if you didn't do that you leveled at a pretty solid pace that didn't require grinding to be capable of actually fighting. You could grind, but you didn't have to.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 00:31
|
|
|
Schwartzcough posted:Except that's not Robo, it's a chip that Lucca named "Prometheus" in honor of her friend Robo who wasn't built for hundreds of years after she died. http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/GamePro_Interview.html From Masato Kato: Anyway, if you have played Trigger, then Prometheus should be very familiar to you. I'm sure a lot of players would make a similar 'big fuss' over the death of such a much-loved friend... So yeah, it isn't just a chip, it's actually him. I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong about the other thing, especially given how confusing CC's story is, but it's confirmed that at least two Trigger characters died, and one of them was during the game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 04:28
|
|
|
The Chrono Compendium timeline for Chrono Cross is the only way I could figure out what the hell was going on in the game. When I first played it I probably just breezed through the story dump at the end because I just wanted to fight Lavos and be done with it. What I think is the biggest offender about Chrono Cross is that when the story is spelled out to you with the timeline, it could actually have been compelling and had it been properly executed, could have been an actually well done sequel to CT. Even the killing of several characters could have been excused because their deaths served a purpose to the story, and to be honest even in the game we got their deaths were important enough. My other biggest gripe is that for whatever reason I can't get past the stupid demi-humans. If they had just called them Mystics I would have been fine with them but they are a huge focus of the game and not really part of the world from CT as far as I can tell. But I'm convinced, I'm gonna play it again and see if playing it like it was it's own thing and not going expecting Chrono Trigger 2 will help me to enjoy what it was. ETA Link to huge, insane timeline in question. Some people have too much time to think about video games. Hit or miss Clitoris fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Jan 15, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 04:46
|
|
|
Twelve by Pies posted:http://www.chronocompendium.com/Term/GamePro_Interview.html *Shrug* If anything, that right there is a retcon. Considering that Robo from CT was one of a series of unimportant robots in a future where Lavos destroys everything, and was almost certainly NOT made by Lucca, while Prometheus of CC WAS designed by Lucca and is a computer program or chip running in a much larger computer system from a timeline where Lavos is dead, saying they're the "same character" is a huge stretch. At the very least, it's not the character you grew to know in CT.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 04:49
|
|
|
Guy who wrote the story said it's the same one though. Remember, Lucca still had the Epoch, so it's not like Robo was completely isolated. If anything, the pictures in the orphanage show that the characters from other time periods frequently came to visit. Remember that the orphanage wasn't burned until 1015 AD. Serge became the Arbiter in 1006 AD, and was killed by Wazuki in 1010 AD in Another. This meant Lucca had ample time to bring Robo back from the future and turn him into the Prometheus Circuit. Remember, Lucca's technological knowledge had advanced significantly since Trigger; while she wasn't able to design complex robots like Robo during the events of Trigger, she was able to create Time Eggs by the time the orphanage burned down. Like I said, whether it actually makes sense or not, that's another story, but the guy who wrote the game said it's supposed to be the same character. Hit or miss Clitoris posted:My other biggest gripe is that for whatever reason I can't get past the stupid demi-humans. If they had just called them Mystics I would have been fine with them but they are a huge focus of the game and not really part of the world from CT as far as I can tell. They're not Mystics though, they're their own unique race. They weren't part of the world from Trigger, because they didn't exist until after the events of Trigger happened, just like how El Nido didn't exist during Trigger either. It was defeating Lavos that caused El Nido, the dragon gods, and the demi-humans to be created. You can tell Mystics and demi-humans aren't the same thing because demi-humans cannot use magic. The Mystics' ability to use magic is a big reason why Guardia was getting defeated in 600 AD.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 06:48
|
|
|
Though I'd imagine that it was less "the heroes were coming to visit across time" and more "Lucca told them bedtime stories," which is a lot more believable. Still, no matter how you size it up, the whole thing is a disaster because these are genuine Words about CC. They shoulda just stuck to something simple, but  was as much a staple of that era as songs during the credits.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 06:54
|
|
|
CC really suffered from having like 4 different plots going on where it only really needed one. When you're doing something as innately complex as alternate timelines, it helps to have a simple point with which to start. "Serge lived in one timeline and died in the other" should have been fine on its own but then it gets another four layers of poo poo before its done, half of which is needlessly convoluted at best. Explaining why one guy living or dying splinters the universe should be enough to carry your stuff without needing alternate-dimension time travelling dragon-dinosaur-gods battling an all-controlling supercomputer or whatever the gently caress CC ended up with. Edit: http://www.jp.square-enix.com/ff_atb/ Also this is a thing, I guess. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Jan 15, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 07:50
|
|
|
New Final Fantasy-related mystery site. It's probably that "All The Bravest" thing we saw trademarked a while back.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 07:54
|
|
|
TurnipFritter posted:New Final Fantasy-related mystery site. It's probably that "All The Bravest" thing we saw trademarked a while back.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 07:56
|
|
|
Given that I only half-followed XIII-2 and all of the time travel crap, I still don't really understand everything that goes on in the game. Can someone give a good explanation?
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 08:01
|
|
|
TurnipFritter posted:New Final Fantasy-related mystery site. It's probably that "All The Bravest" thing we saw trademarked a while back. On one hand who gives a poo poo, on the other hand... those are FF6 sprites...
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 08:03
|
|
|
iOS Port for FF6 then? I have to say I was pretty crushed with the TWEWY teaser site. Thanks, SE.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 08:07
|
|
|
Endorph posted:Why are there two Lockes and four Gaus? It does sort of look like 4 Lockes fighting 2 Behemoths. But joke will be on us when it turns out to be a countdown timer to when a SECOND countdown timer starts to finally tell us that The World Ends with You will be released on Android devices.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 08:07
|
|
|
So long as there's more remixes of TWEWY songs I'm okay with that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 08:09
|
|
|
Schwartzcough posted:It does sort of look like 4 Lockes fighting 2 Behemoths. But joke will be on us when it turns out to be a countdown timer to when a SECOND countdown timer starts to finally tell us that The World Ends with You will be released on Android devices. In 2014, after several months of exclusivity on their JP-only Android store. Fuckers. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 08:09
|
|
|
Andrew_1985 posted:iOS Port for FF6 then? I think it's probably an iOS game taped together with reused assets rather than a port.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 08:10
|
|
|
I love FF6 enough that I'd legitimately be psyched for a lovely FF4:TAY-style faux retro sequel.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 08:11
|
|
|
Zombies' Downfall posted:I love FF6 enough that I'd legitimately be psyched for a lovely FF4:TAY-style faux retro sequel. God, can you imagine how they'd awkwardly try to shoehorn magic back into the game?
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 08:15
|
|
|
Andrew_1985 posted:iOS Port for FF6 then? The end of the iOS TWEWY port shows a new character and it's heavily implied they're working on a sequel though. Also I was gonna say "FF Smash Bros" to this new thing but I forgot Dissidia exists.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 08:28
|
|
|
TurnipFritter posted:God, can you imagine how they'd awkwardly try to shoehorn magic back into the game? Maybe it would be a prequel set in the War of the Magi. I'd almost kind of be on board with that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 08:35
|
|
|
TurnipFritter posted:New Final Fantasy-related mystery site. It's probably that "All The Bravest" thing we saw trademarked a while back. Those look like two thieves and two warriors from FF1's GBA version designs. Those are definitely behemoths from FF6 though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 08:44
|
|
|
It would be really strange for them to use their All the Bravest trademark on something that isn't a localization of Bravely Default. But this is Square...
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 09:00
|
|
|
The red and black colors also correspond to the silhouette art from the FF6 logo.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 09:20
|
|
|
Nickname Pending posted:Given that I only half-followed XIII-2 and all of the time travel crap, I still don't really understand everything that goes on in the game. Can someone give a good explanation? It's pretty convoluted. Basically: Etro's actions at the end of FFXIII, which included restoring Lightning and co. from Cie'th status as well as crystal status once their Focus was completed, hosed with the timeline. The reason Etro could intervene at all was due to Orphan opening Etro's Gate (which you can see in the final battle of FFXIII). Once Etro realized her mistake, which basically lead to chaos from the Unseen World leaking in to the Visible World, she needed a champion. To do so, she stole Lightning from the current timeline and sent her to Valhalla, a timeless place where there is no life or death, the epitome of the Unseen World's power. With the timeline in disarray, and Lightning's existence erased, Serah is the only left who still remembers her (and Noel, too, by meeting her in Valhalla). Serah has been chosen by Etro as well, given the fact that she can see glimpses of the future. The actual center of the story is Yeul, a Seeress of Paddra, a long-running civilization that stretches all the way back to the War of Transgression 500 years prior to the events of FFXIII. Among this civilization, Yeul was the only one who could see the future, and due to the disarray of the timeline, she and countless copies of her born from recycled chaos would die, again and again, after seeing the futures to come. Noel comes from the same race, and ended up being its last survivor in 700 AF. Yeul's protector, Caius, has lived a thousand years, watching Yeul die again and again. His inability to protect and keep her alive drove him insane. As Protector of the Seer, he has half of Etro's power, the Heart of Chaos that beats inside of him. To become a new Protector, the old Protector must be defeated and his heart ripped out, then placed inside the body of a new Protector. However, his immortality has made him increasingly more difficult to kill, which is why both Noel and Caius fight over the fate of Yeul, despite her inability to prevent her own fate. He resolves, to, instead, open Etro's Gate for good and let the timelessness and chaos of Valhalla seep into all timelines, essentially stagnating the forward momentum of time itself. The reason he wants to prevent Noel and Serah's time fuckery is based on its central conceit: that affecting the future affects the past. Time in the Fabula Nova Crystallis universe works both backwards and forwards -- all events affect all other events, from the past, to the present, to the future. Instead of real-world physics, which would state that future time alteration would have no effect on events prior, due to the way the Invisible and Visible worlds interact with one another, time has its own doppler effect that ripples back in on itself. At the very end, Noel and Serah "kill" Caius. But because of the fact that Caius has had a thousand years to enact his ultimate goal, he still succeeds in opening the gate to Valhalla, leading into the events of Lightning Returns. this is a lot of words for a not very good story. Azure_Horizon fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Jan 15, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 09:22
|
|
|
All this talk about Chrono Trigger, but then the Chrono Cross crap and then reading that explanation of Final Fantasy XIII-2's plot (for which I feel less and less bad each day for never finishing) makes me really wish we could have back the days where our JRPGs could be nice ensemble affairs about kicking the rear end of something or someone huge and horrible bent on complete global annihilation for it's own pleasure/satiation. A Lavos. A Kefka. Hell, even a Deus or a Jenova. I miss these bad guys. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 12:38
|
|
|
Feels like less to do with having a clear enemy and more to do with having a clear narrative which develop momentum and compels the player to keep going, which a strong antagonist often does a good job of facilitating. People love talking about FF13 in this thread, so think the first half of the game (which is the most boring mechanically but most interesting narratively) and the second half, which just is sort of, yea, we're on Pulse. FF9 does a great job of sustaining momentum and having a clear narrative, even when things get silly. Every time I try to play Chrono Cross, I inevitably get bored because I have no idea who anyone is or why anything is happening.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 13:09
|
|
|
This is going to be a terrible FF6 sequel, isn't it? Mazed posted:A Lavos. A Kefka. Hell, even a Deus or a Jenova. I miss these bad guys. You're talking about simpler times and then you mention Deus?
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 13:18
|
|
|
I'd be sort of shocked if they announce an FF6 remake/sequel via a website announcement and not a trade show or something with more than 3 days' warning. Seems like that's one of the most beloved of the series with 4 and 7, so they would call as much attention to such an effort as they could. My money would be on a port or something. Which would be sort of unexciting, even with new features like GBA had. That said, won't complain if they make a FF6-2 or something. They can't un-make the fun of the original, so why not give players a shot at revisiting the world in a new way?
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 13:25
|
|
|
Krad posted:You're talking about simpler times and then you mention Deus? Yes. The game opens with a biblical quote. So, because it was a JRPG, it was pretty clear right out the gate that you were probably going to need to kill God to win. Granted, this could be speaking only in retrospect through a bunch of other kill-god games, and a bunch of other crap happens before you finally got to do it that was a dreadful omen of what was to come.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 14:09
|
|
|
Azure_Horizon posted:Explaining plot. Makes a bit more sense, but is still pretty obnoxious. I stopped trying to follow the story about halfway through because it was becoming annoying. Would have given up all-together if the combat wasn't fun.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 14:11
|
|
|
swmmrmanshen posted:Feels like less to do with having a clear enemy and more to do with having a clear narrative which develop momentum and compels the player to keep going, which a strong antagonist often does a good job of facilitating. People love talking about FF13 in this thread, so think the first half of the game (which is the most boring mechanically but most interesting narratively) and the second half, which just is sort of, yea, we're on Pulse. Completely agreed. I actually quite liked the first half of XIII when everything was fixed on our heroes interacting and growing. The second half of the game tries to focus more on the story and everything falls loving apart. Mazed posted:All this talk about Chrono Trigger, but then the Chrono Cross crap and then reading that explanation of Final Fantasy XIII-2's plot (for which I feel less and less bad each day for never finishing) makes me really wish we could have back the days where our JRPGs could be nice ensemble affairs about kicking the rear end of something or someone huge and horrible bent on complete global annihilation for it's own pleasure/satiation. Well Xenosaga more or less used Xenogears' formula of having a bunch of varied antagonists to progress the plot and develop the characters while at the core you had Wilhelm, the manipulative mastermind behind everything. He's kind of Deus and Krelian wrapped into one which works because Deus and Krelain more or less ended up being the Big Bads of Xenogears.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 14:43
|
|
|
They updated the teaser site and it's got a black mage silhouette and a guy that looks like Minwu or an FF5 Chemist or something. The likelihood of it being an FF6 sequel is going down a little, and even if that game would've been idiotic I'm still a bit disappointed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 14:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 13:16 |
|
|
Zombies' Downfall posted:They updated the teaser site and it's got a black mage silhouette and a guy that looks like Minwu or an FF5 Chemist or something. The likelihood of it being an FF6 sequel is going down a little, and even if that game would've been idiotic I'm still a bit disappointed. Now I'm leaning towards FF6 sequel... in the form of a social mobile game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 14:59
|
|