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Prefect Six posted:Prescience is divination right? Vanilla marines can't take divination, which I heartily agree blows goat. oops. Also, drat that sucks. Not sure if there's a compelling reason to take a Librarian, in that case.
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Jan 15, 2013 19:43
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Ok so I think I've come up with a doublewing list that I'm happy with. Yes, I know the Black Knight squad is an absurd 540 point deathstar. You could easily grab two more Deathwing Terminator Squads instead if that's more up your alley. Dark Angels and Imperial Guard - 2000 points Primary Detachment - Dark Angels HQ Azrael - 215 points Librarian (Divination) - 120 points - force axe - bike - auspex - power field generator Troops Deathwing Terminator Squad - 260 points - 4 x thunder hammer and storm shield - assault cannon Deathwing Terminator Squad - 260 points - 4 x thunder hammer and storm shield - assault cannon Fast Attack Ravenwing Black Knights - 420 points - 10 x Black Knights - 2 x Ravenwing grenade launcher Allied Detachment - Imperial Guard HQ Primaris Psyker (Biomancy) - 70 points - force sword Ministorum Priest - 45 points Troops Infantry Platoon - 395 points Platoon Command Squad - 4 x meltagun Infantry Squad - flamer - Sgt. w/ power axe Infantry Squad - flamer - Sgt. w/ power axe Infantry Squad - flamer - Sgt. w/ power axe Infantry Squad - flamer - Sgt. w/ power axe Infantry Squad - flamer - Sgt. w/ power axe Fast Attack Vendetta Gunship - 140 points - heavy bolter sponsons Heavy Support Griffon - 75 points total: 2000 points Azrael, the Primaris Psyker, and the Ministorum Priest join the blob, obviously. Blobviously. 50 guardsmen with 4++, Furious Charge, rerolling to-hit on the charge seems strong. If you get lucky and the Primaris rolls Enfeeble or Endurance then the blob can get absurd. The Librarian joins the RWBKs because I'm afraid of Heldrakes and the 4++ will help. The Deathwing generally deep strike in on turn 1 or 2, depending on when they are needed. The PCS hops in the Vendetta and either suicide meltas something or scores you Linebreaker. Phyresis fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jan 15, 2013 |
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Jan 15, 2013 19:44
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4++ on a guard blob is amazing. The DA codex makes me feel bad about my CSM codex. DA seem pretty good on paper, guess we'll have to see where they fall on the power spectrum.
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Jan 15, 2013 19:56
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So I did a thing. Finished my first fire-team of Death Korps troopers. I'm still not completely sure about the colour scheme, even though this is what I have decided to do. What say ye goons?  Some base detail. 
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Jan 15, 2013 20:36
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I really dig the WW1 french approach and I'll think the pint scheme will help your models stand out on the battlefield and your army stand out from the other umpteen gery/green/brownish DKK armies.humannature posted:4++ on a guard blob is amazing. Except you're not going to give it to a blob, hardly even a squad, as it would make you bunch up in a way that would totally negate any benefits from the improved save. It's 4++ for models within 3", not units. cat with hands fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jan 15, 2013 |
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Jan 15, 2013 20:47
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Luebbi posted:2 flyers and 3 (light) tanks at 750 points? I thought these guys are your friends Is this especially mean? I'm looking for ways to be a sort of all-comers list as there are enough people playing that pretty much everything is represented. Icon Of Sin posted:Those are the makings of a beautiful ally list What would that be more effective against, instead of having them in Chimeras? I'm still not sure what in going to do with that last 20 points. I'm at work now, though, so I'll have to dig through the codex when I get home.
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Jan 15, 2013 21:45
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Thanks every for the Spawntalk! It basically gives me more encouragement to make another 5 Spawn - I had fun making the first unit of 5, and another 5 are due. I just need to find the right bits and get sketching/GreenStuffing. Now I have another thing: Our DA player has backed out of his scheduled game tomorrow (get this - he has too many new units to build!) so now it's me vs the Necron player in our group. He only wants to do 800 points, so I need something that will be good against Necron. He loves his Scarab Beetles so vehicles/Forgefiend are off the cards. So far I've come up with this: Typhus 2 x 8 Plague Marine units (1 Champion + 7) with Plasma Gun - is plasma any good against Necron? Havocs with 4 Autocannons That's 795 points, and considering he has a Lord (or whoever it is that makes you hit yourself in close combat) I'm planning to footslog around and focus fire as much shooting as possible on one Necron unit at a time and avoid combat as much as possible. To be honest I don't think Typhus is the right choice against Necrons because he's close combat only. I do have Abaddon so he's an option. I have Kharn as well but he's CC only as well.
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Jan 15, 2013 21:51
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BobOfDoom posted:Is this especially mean? I'm looking for ways to be a sort of all-comers list as there are enough people playing that pretty much everything is represented. Vendettas are probably the most undercosted unit in 40k so there's that. It's not THE HARDEST LIST EVER or anything but most people would probably have a really tough time beating it at 750.
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Jan 15, 2013 21:52
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cat with hands posted:Except you're not going to give it to a blob, hardly even a squad, as it would make you bunch up in a way that would totally negate any benefits from the improved save. It's 4++ for models within 3", not units. Yeah, this is what I remember seeing as well earlier in the thread. Can one of you Codex-havers confirm or deny this? Does Azrael himself have a different version maybe?
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Jan 15, 2013 22:01
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ghetto wormhole posted:Vendettas are probably the most undercosted unit in 40k This is a funny way to spell "Exorcist".
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Jan 15, 2013 22:03
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Deviant posted:This is a funny way to spell "Exorcist". How much do they cost/what are the stats of the missiles again?
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Jan 15, 2013 22:09
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The Gate posted:Yeah, this is what I remember seeing as well earlier in the thread. Can one of you Codex-havers confirm or deny this? Does Azrael himself have a different version maybe? "The Lion Helm confers a 4+ invulnerable save to Azrael and his unit."
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Jan 15, 2013 22:11
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ghetto wormhole posted:How much do they cost/what are the stats of the missiles again? 135 pts, AV 13/11/10 Weapon: Exorcist Launcher, S8 AP1 d6 shots @ BS4. Turret mounted (360 sight) Smoke Launchers Shield of Faith (6+ invuln save) plus various who-gives-a-crap options. Deviant fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 15, 2013 |
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Jan 15, 2013 22:12
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cat with hands posted:Except you're not going to give it to a blob, hardly even a squad, as it would make you bunch up in a way that would totally negate any benefits from the improved save. It's 4++ for models within 3", not units. The Gate posted:Yeah, this is what I remember seeing as well earlier in the thread. Can one of you Codex-havers confirm or deny this? Does Azrael himself have a different version maybe? I don't have the codex, but I looked through it yesterday, so my memory may be faulty. Azrael has a chapter relic called the lion helm which gives any unit he is attached to a 4++. IG and DA are battle-brothers, so I believe you can stick him in a full sized IG blob to give them all 4++.
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Jan 15, 2013 22:12
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humannature posted:I don't have the codex, but I looked through it yesterday, so my memory may be faulty. Azrael has a chapter relic called the lion helm which gives any unit he is attached to a 4++. IG and DA are battle-brothers, so I believe you can stick him in a full sized IG blob to give them all 4++. Yeah, he had it in the last Codex and this combo worked but no one gave a poo poo. Deviant posted:135 pts, AV 13/11/10 lmao that's a joke compared to 130 point Vendettas.
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Jan 15, 2013 22:16
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Phyresis posted:Yeah, he had it in the last Codex and this combo worked but no one gave a poo poo. Of course he was also 10 points more expensive, didn't make ravenwing and deathwing troops, and now has+1 WS, PE: CSM (because of inner circle), and doesn't he get to pick his warlord trait? Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the combo is OP, it's very good though, and it's nice to see synergy between battle-brothers. I was very disappointed that that synergy between CSM and Daemons was removed.
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Jan 15, 2013 22:37
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Is Inquisitor Karamazov any good? I got one of him a while back and I want to work him into my army. Assuming he's worthwhile in anyway, would he work better with SoB allies or GK allies? The main army is a doublewing Dark Angels list that I'm rebuilding, which is to say that I have a bunch of terminators from a couple of AoBR boxes and some other toys.
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Jan 15, 2013 22:49
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Improbable Lobster posted:Is Inquisitor Karamazov any good? I got one of him a while back and I want to work him into my army. He's a GK HQ choice isn't he?
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Jan 15, 2013 22:54
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TheBlobThing posted:So I did a thing. Finished my first fire-team of Death Korps troopers. I'm still not completely sure about the colour scheme, even though this is what I have decided to do. What say ye goons? these look great, my only comment, and it is a minor one, is that there are some hard edges on some of your shading and I'd look at trying to feather them on future models.
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Jan 15, 2013 22:54
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TheBlobThing posted:So I did a thing. Finished my first fire-team of Death Korps troopers. I'm still not completely sure about the colour scheme, even though this is what I have decided to do. What say ye goons? Just noticed these, and they look great. I think the color scheme is fine. As was said earlier, I actually like the WW1 French scheme, and you don't see that too often. Can't wait to see the rest of the army! By the way, does anyone know why the krieg models look so different compared to normal IG? The krieg guys look more realistic to me. Just a design choice or something? humannature fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Jan 15, 2013 |
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Jan 15, 2013 23:04
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Phyresis posted:Yeah, he had it in the last Codex and this combo worked but no one gave a poo poo. The new codex is so much better than the old one, though. Before, you'd bring Azrael and a dumb tactical squad or something and that's it because there was nothing else in DA worth taking as allies. Now, Azrael, Deathwing Knights, a 5-man missile launcher, black knights, and maybe a vengeance.
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Jan 15, 2013 23:24
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:I just bought a bucket and some simple green, and threw in some tac marines I've been meaning to strip (along with babby's first terminator who is built wrong), so wish me luck! Trip report so far (elapsed time: ~ 8 hours): Whites coming off without much trouble. Blues (necron abyss) are really stuck on there. CA glue coming apart. I'm gonna let it go overnight, and then see where I'm at. I'm a little hesitant on stripping any of my based models, because simple green really fucks up the texture paint something fierce.
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Jan 15, 2013 23:27
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Thanks a bunch for the feedback guys. I'm still getting better at painting as I go along, and the blue has been a real pain to highlight smoothly. I'm sure I'll get better at it as I go along and I'll definitely pay attention to the contrast between highlighting colours. This is probably an excuse for being lazy, but like I've said before, I really have to balance the work load of painting these guys up to a decent standard to still being able to paint the whole thing. Also I'm glad you guys liked the colour scheme. I've been hemming and hawing at it for a while about whether or not I actually liked it. After the bases got painted up the whole thing really just came together. humannature posted:Just noticed these, and they look great. I think the color scheme is fine. As was said earlier, I actually like the WW1 French scheme, and you don't see that too often. Can't wait to see the rest of the army! By the way, does anyone know why the krieg models look so different compared to normal IG? The krieg guys look more realistic to me. Just a design choice or something? Well, they are Forgeworld models, not straight GW. It seems like they've gone for a more realistically inspired design for these guys. Like a mix of WW1 French and Germans (mostly Germans). So it's probably a conscious design choice (and an excuse to gouge my wallet). Edit: Cataphract posted:these look great, my only comment, and it is a minor one, is that there are some hard edges on some of your shading and I'd look at trying to feather them on future models. If you have any tips on how to do that, I'm all ears. Like I said, this has been my no. 1 headache in getting this colour scheme to work.
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Jan 16, 2013 00:22
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Whats the difference of Knight variants on all the DA stuff? Is it just different wargear, or are stats changed too? I see Deathwing and Ravenwing units can be taken as troops depending on certain HQ's, but the Knight version of those units can not be. So whats the difference between the two?
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Jan 16, 2013 00:56
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Trip report so far (elapsed time: ~ 8 hours): I usually let stuff soak at least 24 hours before paint comes off easily. But more often than not I'll just toss something in and forget about it for a week.
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Jan 16, 2013 01:01
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Fletchtar posted:oops. Also, drat that sucks. Not sure if there's a compelling reason to take a Librarian, in that case. 100pt HQ with Null Zone and The Avenger? Still the best bang for your buck out of C:SM.
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Jan 16, 2013 01:34
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humannature posted:I don't have the codex, but I looked through it yesterday, so my memory may be faulty. Azrael has a chapter relic called the lion helm which gives any unit he is attached to a 4++. IG and DA are battle-brothers, so I believe you can stick him in a full sized IG blob to give them all 4++. Ah yes, thought you were talking about the powerfield  4++ is a significant improvement but it's still a bunch of guardsmen. Though against anything ignoring cover it's a huge bonus. Guardblobs tend to be very situational but then again there's nothing that forces you to deploy him with them.
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Jan 16, 2013 02:17
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TheBlobThing posted:So I did a thing. Finished my first fire-team of Death Korps troopers. I'm still not completely sure about the colour scheme, even though this is what I have decided to do. What say ye goons? These guys are looking good! The close-up shot shows some wrinkles (namely the kind of hard edges on the shading and some wash pooling) but nothing bad by any means. They look great in the first two photos, and I bet once you've got a healthy amount of them they'll look amazing on the tabletop! I also really dig the French-styled uniforms, with the blue coats. I'm not totally sure about the red pants, but you've done a good job regardless!
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Jan 16, 2013 02:43
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cat with hands posted:Ah yes, thought you were talking about the powerfield For sure. I'd still take one if I were inclined towards running a DA army though. I really like Phyresis's list, and I'm just fond of Azrael this edition. Lots of tactical flexibility on him.
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Jan 16, 2013 03:00
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Manifest posted:He's a GK HQ choice isn't he? Yeah. IIRC, he is a SoB HQ as well. I was mostly wondering if anyone has any tabletop experience with him, especially as an ally.
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Jan 16, 2013 03:18
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Improbable Lobster posted:Yeah. IIRC, he is a SoB HQ as well. I was mostly wondering if anyone has any tabletop experience with him, especially as an ally. He used to be a Sisters HQ, until the GK dex. He isn't anymore.
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Jan 16, 2013 03:57
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List spam time! Deathwing: Belial (190) Interrogator-Chaplain, power armour, Mace of Redemption, bolt pistol (140) Librarian, level 2, combi-plasma, conversion field, force stave (151) Techmarine, power field generator (80) Deathwing, 2x TH/SS, 3x TLC, LRR w/ armour, multi-melta (515) Deathwing, TH/SS, 6x PF/SB, 1x CF/SB, 2x PF/AC (490) Deathwing, TLC, 2x TH/SS, PF/SB, CML/TLC (255) Tactical squad, 5-strong, missile launcher (85) Tactical squad, 5-strong, missile launcher (85) Belial with the 10-strong deep striking around 24" away, proceed to unload, continue shooting, etc. Techmarine, Interrogator-Chaplain with the unit in the Redeemer. Techmarine stays inside. Librarian with 255-point Deathwing somewhere in midfield Dualwing: Belial (190) Librarian, level 2, conversion field, force sword, bike (135) Sammael (200) Deathwing, TH/SS, 3x PF/SB, PF/AC (245) Deathwing, TH/SS, 3x PF/SB, PF/AC (245) Ravenwing, 3-strong, 2x meltagun, Land Speeder Typhoon, multimelta (185) Ravenwing, 6-strong, 2x plasma gun, Land Speeder Typhoon, multimelta (276) Tactical squad, plasma cannon, melta bombs, flamer (165) Black knights, 6-strong, 2 grenade launchers (252) Darkshroud (100) Sammael with black knights Librarian with the 6-strong ravenwing Belial with one of the deathwing on turn 1
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Jan 16, 2013 03:59
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Tailfnz posted:He used to be a Sisters HQ, until the GK dex. He isn't anymore. Well, I guess that solves that. Is he any good?
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Jan 16, 2013 04:11
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Improbable Lobster posted:Well, I guess that solves that. Is he any good? Meh. 200 points for an orbital strike spammer that can target his own dudes so it doesn't scatter, but since it's allies only that really only means stuff out of the GK book, and since he only unlocks one cheap warband it isn't nearly as cool as it could be with someone like Cortez. His higher toughness isn't really worth it since any squad he will join will give him a lower value via majority. I guess he has a relentless multi melta but 
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Jan 16, 2013 05:18
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Naramyth posted:Meh. 200 points for an orbital strike spammer that can target his own dudes so it doesn't scatter, but since it's allies only that really only means stuff out of the GK book, and since he only unlocks one cheap warband it isn't nearly as cool as it could be with someone like Cortez. His higher toughness isn't really worth it since any squad he will join will give him a lower value via majority. I guess he has a relentless multi melta but
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Jan 16, 2013 05:32
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humannature posted:I had a question for the thread too on the topic of CSM. I've decided to run a biker lord after being unhappy with my terminator and power armored lords. What's the best load out for a nurgle biker lord, and which unit is a better escort, nurgle bikers or nurgle spawn? As for Bikes vs Spawn as an escort, it's basically an issue of survivability or speed. MoN Spawn are very tough to get rid of, but don't let you take full advantage of Turbo-boost, and thus will delay the Lord a little bit. On the other hand, Nurgle Bikes are more expensive per wound than Spawn and will probably set you back a pretty fair number of points if you're making an escort for a Lord, but are a bit more generally capable in CC and have more flexible loadouts. Personally I love Spawn, so I'd go with them, but neither is a bad choice. BobOfDoom posted:Is this especially mean? I'm looking for ways to be a sort of all-comers list as there are enough people playing that pretty much everything is represented. The Gate posted:Yeah, this is what I remember seeing as well earlier in the thread. Can one of you Codex-havers confirm or deny this? Does Azrael himself have a different version maybe? Khorne Flakes posted:Whats the difference of Knight variants on all the DA stuff? Is it just different wargear, or are stats changed too? I see Deathwing and Ravenwing units can be taken as troops depending on certain HQ's, but the Knight version of those units can not be. So whats the difference between the two? Ravenwing Squads are biker units that come with Scouts, Hit and Run, and Teleport Homers on every model. They're more expensive than normal bikes (27pts/model) and don't automatically come with the two-attack Sarge in the squad. Like normal bikes they can get an Attack Bike and Land Speeder included as well as two special weapons. Deathwing Knights gain WS5 over their normal counterparts (as well as A3 on the sarge) and all come equipped with Storm Shields. They're a few points more than the normal DW models base. The basic squad members come with Power Mauls that are AP3 against Chaos Marines, and once per game they can activate to be S10 AP2 for a turn. The sarge instead has a Maul that is always AP3 and is AP2 against Chaos (but can't "activate.") They (and other Inner Circle models) gain +1T if in contact with two Deathwing Knights and all models in the squad can make precision attacks against CSM in melee. They also have the Hammer of Wrath rule. Black Knights are as expensive as Terminators, but come with all the usual Ravenwing stuff and are A2, like most vets. They come base with a Plasma Talon (18" Plasmagun) and Bolt Pistol plus their fancy hammer (S5 AP- Rending.) They have have Skilled Rider (and thus ignore dangerous terrain and add +1 to Jink saves) and one model per three can swap his Talon for a Grenade Launcher, which comes with special Rad Grenades that are S3 and reduce the toughness of the unit they shoot by -1 for a turn or Stasis shells that reduce the WS/I of the unit they shoot by one. (Both types of special grenades are 12" range rather than the 24" for the other types.)
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Jan 16, 2013 06:57
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Prefect Six posted:100pt HQ with Null Zone and The Avenger? Still the best bang for your buck out of C:SM. Not saying you're wrong, but could you explain why that's better than say, Gate of Infinity & Machine Curse? Which having another look through the codex, I thought would be a good combo. Gate to ferry around the Sterngard or whatever he's with as they're needed, Machine Curse to put auto glances on fliers & av14?
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Jan 16, 2013 07:14
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AbusePuppy posted:I'd run a Nurgle Lord on a Bike, with Blight Grenades ('cause why not) with Power Fist and Lightning Claw along with Sigil of Corruption. Depending on your points total and group's interpretation, a Burning Brand replacing the TLBolter can also be nice. You end up with a very fast unit that has a CC option against basically everything and is quite tough to hurt. Right, I'm going with spawn because I got 2 boxes from my FLGS for $58 instead of the regular $82.50. I think I'm going to try out the black mace on my lord. Probably less than optimal, and ap4 stinks, but spawn are already hilariously random so why not? It's got fleshbane and I'll probably give him VotLW so he should force a bunch of saves at least. AbusePuppy posted:Deathwing Squads are essentially Terminators from every other Marine book; they can freely mix "tactical" and Assault Terminators in the same squad, unlike other codices, and have the option for a Plasma Cannon for a heavy weapon. Like all of the DW units, they are Fearless and have Hatred (CSM) and like the other Terminators they have Deathwing Assault. I believe it's actually preferred enemy (CSM) rather than hatred.
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Jan 16, 2013 09:31
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K, so I've been tweaking the 800 pt CSM vs Necron list for tonight, apparently power weapons and Strength 8 does the trick against Necrons, so how does this look:quote:+++ 800pt Chaos Space Marines 6th Ed (2012) (by Fuzzi) Roster (Primary Detachment)) +++ Havocs with 4 Lascannons, 2 squads of regular CSM with 1 Lascannon each and a power weapon each (one with Plasma pistol), a Lord with Power Sword and Lightning Claw running with one of the squads, and Cultists to hold 2 different objectives in the backfield. I put Gift of Mutation on the Chaos Lord and the Champions in each CSM squad, kind of to see what it would do but if it's useless I can happily drop it.
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Jan 16, 2013 10:16
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All these Azrael blobs are making me think I should invest in Hellions. That could be pretty funny.
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Jan 16, 2013 11:27
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