|
It's important to remember that there's a difference between 'just' and 'lawful'. Dredd acts lawfully in every situation, while it's often ambiguous as to whether his actions are just. But Dredd isn't a sadistic character, and the point of using the incendiary round has more to do with distracting the guy than it does with inflicting police terror (besides the hostage, no-one actually witnesses the event). This seems like a similar situation to the taser scene, where folks would breathe a sigh of relief at the guy being 'merely' shot in the head. Again, Dredd is actually a fairly sincere hero in the film, the satire being that things have to be pretty hosed up to reach that point. In this specific case, the problem isn't Dredd himself, but the fact that he's sent in without backup or oversight. He follows the law even though there's nothing compelling him to do so. While he is personally incorruptible, the system is not.
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 22:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 15:44 |
|
|
There was no reveling, god drat I'm posting into the wind.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 22:06
|
|
|
moths posted:There was no reveling, god drat I'm posting into the wind. Perhaps people are projecting their own feeling onto Dredd. They feel that they would revel in such a situation, and it is hard for them to comprehend why someone else wouldn't. VVVV - He might have wanted to make sure the threats were either killed or incapacitated, especially since they would certainly come back to try and kill him in the future. People tend to not think rationally when they have seen their buddies get killed. Alcholism Rocks fucked around with this message at 22:14 on Jan 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 22:10
|
|
|
moths posted:There was no reveling, god drat I'm posting into the wind. He stopped and stared even though he could have just as easily left. Maybe reveling is the wrong word but he certainly wasn't dispassionate and clinical about it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 22:10
|
|
|
^^^^I'd chalk that whole thing up to ammo conservation followed by self-approval at his thrifty and ingenious dispensing of justice. It's true that no one besides the hostage was there, and sadism was the wrong word, but I don't think the police terror aspect should be discredited. Either that hostage left and told everyone she knew about how Dredd melted the head of a guy who was holding her hostage, or she would be too traumatized to discuss it. Either way, we're led to believe that this is simply Dredd's M.O., and even if no one hears about this particular incident, he's got a reputation to uphold and does so at every opportunity. Reputation would be extremely important to a force as outnumbered as the Judges. Hostage and Hostage-taker alike are both expendable in the pursuit of preventing further similar situations, which is to be done through fear. It's all the Judges really have. The guy even says (roughly) "You've got nothing to offer me here!", which is true, and Dredd is just "yeah, hotshot" and hotshots him (or something like that). Carly Gay Dead Son fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jan 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 22:16
|
|
|
Beyond sane knolls posted:It's true that no one besides the hostage was there, and sadism was the wrong word, but I don't think the police terror aspect should be discredited. Either that hostage left and told everyone she knew about how Dredd melted the head of a guy who was holding her hostage, or she would be too traumatized to discuss it. Either way, we're led to believe that this is simply Dredd's M.O., and even if no one hears about this particular incident, he's got a reputation to uphold and does so at every opportunity. Reputation would be extremely important to a force as outnumbered as the Judges. Hostage and Hostage-taker alike are both expendable in the pursuit of preventing further similar situations, which is to be done through fear. It's all the Judges really have. The guy even says (roughly) "You've got nothing to offer me here!", which is true, and Dredd is just "yeah, hotshot" and hotshots him (or something like that). But that doesn't explain why he allowed that hacker to go free. He could've whipped out his lawgiver, shot him in the back as he ran down the hallway, and then asked Anderson why she let him go free. He also could have killed that prisoner once he was no longer useful, but didn't. Alcholism Rocks fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jan 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 22:27
|
|
|
Alcholism Rocks posted:But that doesn't explain why he allowed that hacker to go free. He could've whipped out his lawgiver, shot him in the back as he ran down the hallway, and then asked Anderson why she let him go free. Dredd, for the whole mission, was basically Anderson's handler/advisor; the drug bust was her evaluation, so he left it up to her to make decisions whenever they were together. His adherence to the rules is that rigid; even after the situation goes belly-up, instead of fully taking over he still quizzes Anderson on tactics as if it were still a test. The only time Dredd goes off on his own is after Anderson is captured. To that end, he let the hacker go because it was Anderson's call for the duration of the bust, and just asked for an explanation after the fact.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 22:31
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:He stopped and stared even though he could have just as easily left. Maybe reveling is the wrong word but he certainly wasn't dispassionate and clinical about it. You seem to be being deliberately obtuse, or are very unfamiliar with the Judge Dredd universe. They are judged guilty of attempted murder of a judge as well as accessories to Ma-Ma's crimes. The sentence is death. Dredd's duty is to carry out the sentence. He's not just going to walk off and go "Welp, they're probably dead". By this point in the story, Dredd is very low on ammo. Incendiary was a smart way to judge them all in short order. It also happened to be totally brutal, but that is almost the entire point of Judge Dredd's world. He was completely dispassionate and clinical. I remember a story where Dredd chased a guy for several pages because he dropped a chocolate wrapper. By the end of it the perp had a mountain of charges because of the laws broken during the chase. Dredd always gets his man, he was never just going to leave.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 22:47
|
|
|
Riflen posted:You seem to be being deliberately obtuse, or are very unfamiliar with the Judge Dredd universe. They are judged guilty of attempted murder of a judge as well as accessories to Ma-Ma's crimes. The sentence is death. Dredd's duty is to carry out the sentence. He's not just going to walk off and go "Welp, they're probably dead". An interesting detail in light of this: as Ma-Ma is falling from the balcony at the end, she turns to see the theatre lobby Dredd had carpeted with white phosphorous. - and one of the perps is still wandering around, badly burned.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 22:54
|
|
|
Riflen posted:I remember a story where Dredd chased a guy for several pages because he dropped a chocolate wrapper. By the end of it the perp had a mountain of charges because of the laws broken during the chase. Dredd always gets his man, he was never just going to leave. Purely out of curiosity, why didn't they make a whole bunch of clones of Dredd to serve as Judges? I'm aware of the Rico problem, but wouldn't it be easier to establish control if you had a couple thousand Joes running around? Well, control of the criminal population, at any rate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 22:57
|
|
|
Riflen posted:You seem to be being deliberately obtuse, or are very unfamiliar with the Judge Dredd universe. They are judged guilty of attempted murder of a judge as well as accessories to Ma-Ma's crimes. The sentence is death. Dredd's duty is to carry out the sentence. He's not just going to walk off and go "Welp, they're probably dead". Well it's made very clear in the execution scene after the slowmo den raid scene that attempted murder of a judge is a death penalty crime, so you don't need to be familiar with the comics to understand why Dredd killed all those guys after they tried to kill him. Another cool thing that emphasises how Dredd's brutality is all legal is when he gets summoned to see the Chief Judge. If he was a regular movie maverick cop he would be in for a dressing down for his incredibly dangerous chase that left many innocents dead. Instead we see that she clearly respects him and is actually less of a stickler for the rules than he is, being willing to give a failed cadet judge another chance. Alcholism Rocks posted:Purely out of curiosity, why didn't they make a whole bunch of clones of Dredd to serve as Judges? They made a few, but with mixed results. Also remember Dredd is himself a clone of the first Chief Judge, Fargo. These clones are born at the physical age of 5 (which is when judge training starts), with implanted memories and then they still need about 15 years of training before they can become judges. So it's probably a lot more expensive than just recruiting the children of citizens.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 23:03
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:He stopped and stared even though he could have just as easily left. Maybe reveling is the wrong word but he certainly wasn't dispassionate and clinical about it. For all we know he was staring at them and wondering why the perps are always so dumb and why they can't just stick to the rules instead of making him kill them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 23:20
|
|
|
Rapey Joe Stalin posted:For all we know he was staring at them and wondering why the perps are always so dumb and why they can't just stick to the rules instead of making him kill them. Or he could've been really hungry and was contemplating the possibility of eating them.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 23:22
|
|
|
Judge Kraken was a Dredd clone that probably had the most mixed results. ...So are we getting that BSS thread or should I start working on one?
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 23:22
|
|
|
Alcholism Rocks posted:Or he could've been really hungry and was contemplating the possibility of eating them. True. I really think Dredd's reaction to most criminals is, other than needing to carry out his duty, boredom. He's seen it all before and there is absolutely no novelty there for him, he may as well be writing a speeding ticket. Which is why that scene is so good, you really do get to wonder what is going on with him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 23:25
|
|
|
Alcholism Rocks posted:Wikipedia says most city blocks have a population of around 60k, so it's possible Ma-Ma's goons only killed around 300 people, not including members of enemy gangs. There's no jobs because robots do all the work, so everybody lives on state support. They get food, housing, etc. from the state and don't have to do anything - those blocks are actually giant housing projects. Boredom is the single biggest concern, which is why there's always tons of insane fads and crazes going around (and a sky-high suicide rate). Lots of people turn to crime because of boredom or because they want something more than the bare minimum necessary to survive. Snapping and just going on a killing spree shooting random people (one type of futsies, from 'future shock syndrome') is also incredibly common. Being fat is a crime partially because all food is given based on need, so the only way to get the extra calories to get fat is to cheat or steal extra food beyond what you're given. This is why being fat is its own weird rebel subculture/lifestyle. Also, in the comics, sugar is illegal. Along with caffeine and comic books. The overcrowding is because most of the US and the rest of the world has been rendered uninhabitable by nuclear war and environmental destruction except for (in the US) Mega-City One (NYC/Beltway/Atlantic), Mega-City Two (LA/California) and Texas City (Mega-City Three). Oh and Las Vegas, I think. The rest is The Cursed Earth, a radioactive wasteland filled with mutants, warring fast-food chain cultists, and the like. This is in part probably a joke about how New York, LA, and fake cowboy western Texas are basically the only parts of the US ever featured in any media ever. The world of the Dredd comic basically a parody of the nanny state conservatives claim to be so terrified of, combined with the tough-on-crime approach that they love. The Cursed Earth is arguably the libertarian opposite, lawless and a literal corporate wasteland filled with the Burger Wars, giant genetically engineered advertising mascots, killer mutant cannibals, etc. Alcholism Rocks posted:VVVVV - They lured two Judges into a trap (although the luring part was probably unintentional) and intended to kill them in a brutal manner...in fact, many of them did go out of their way (instead of opting to stay in their apartments) to attempt to kill the Judges. Even the two kids that got tased made a conscious decision to attempt to murder the Judges. Even in our real society, attempting to murder cops is considered wrong. Even the part where he hit those guys with the incendiary round, they first made a visible attempt to kill what they thought was a Judge. Likewise in the beginning, instead of peacefully surrendering, their first response was to fire an automatic weapon at a Judge. There's plenty of neighborhoods in the real world right now where cooperating with the cops is considered wrong, and killing cops is perfectly excusable or acceptable. People hate and fear the judges because they're miserable and the judges represent the sharp end of an oppressive system that they only ever see kicking them while they're down. And they basically have nothing to lose. Also, it's an action movie, so the bad guys shoot the protagonists just because. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Jan 16, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 23:25
|
|
|
marktheando posted:They made a few, but with mixed results. Also remember Dredd is himself a clone of the first Chief Judge, Fargo. These clones are born at the physical age of 5 (which is when judge training starts), with implanted memories and then they still need about 15 years of training before they can become judges. So it's probably a lot more expensive than just recruiting the children of citizens.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 04:19
|
|
|
fenix down posted:Are the judges called younglings when they are so small? Keep in mind, this was the 90s. Having a comic book without secret clones in it was illegal back then, mister.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 04:24
|
|
|
Cream_Filling posted:Keep in mind, this was the 90s. Having a comic book without secret clones in it was illegal back then, mister. Yeah! I was in elementary school making a comic with my friend after class, and we didn't have secret clones for several issues, then one day, WHAM, Officers Liefield and McFarlane busted through the treehouse door and forced all these plotlines and muscles on me!
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 05:19
|
|
|
I find that story to be implausible. Officer Liefeld would most certainly force pouches on you as well.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 05:22
|
|
|
Alcholism Rocks posted:Purely out of curiosity, why didn't they make a whole bunch of clones of Dredd to serve as Judges? They don't do it because you can clone the body but the personality goes its own way. A certain amount is determined by heredity, but you can't tell what you'll get. For every Dredd or Rico-2 there's a Rico or a Kraken. So while you might have a couple of thousand Dredds on the street, you'd have a couple of thousand more Judges with equal physical prowess and fatal flaws that turn them to the bad. The BSS thread will come as soon as I can make it. I got my PC parts back, but I'm still getting the same problem. I have a couple more things I can try before I'm completely flummoxed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 08:52
|
|
|
Improbable Lobster posted:He stopped and stared even though he could have just as easily left. Maybe reveling is the wrong word but he certainly wasn't dispassionate and clinical about it. Thats what makes keeping the mask on so great along with the close up mirror shot of his visor. gently caress knows whats going on behind there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 10:46
|
|
|
massive spider posted:Thats what makes keeping the mask on so great along with the close up mirror shot of his visor. gently caress knows whats going on behind there. What I took from Dredd watching the burning wasn't reveling. Even though it was justice and he had both the right and the duty to dispense it, it was still an atrocity. I think he was remembering the consequences so he wouldn't become blase about such things. He considers cruelty to be necessary but he's not a sadist.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 12:41
|
|
|
massive spider posted:Thats what makes keeping the mask on so great along with the close up mirror shot of his visor. gently caress knows whats going on behind there. Anger. And control. And something else.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 12:44
|
|
|
Cream_Filling posted:Keep in mind, this was the 90s. Having a comic book without secret clones in it was illegal back then, mister. Actually, Dredd's been about 50/50 on the good/evil clone front in the comics. Rico and Kraken turned bad, while Rico-2 and Dolman have stayed good (so far), and Nimrod was a failed experiment who fell somewhere in between. There are another couple of Dredd/Fargo clones known to exist but who are as yet unseen, which means they haven't caused any problems (yet).
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 13:21
|
|
|
For me, the scene with the two kids was really definitive with regards to Dredd's personality. When they're having that standoff and he says "bodybags or juve-cubes, it makes no difference to me" it's no threat or negotiation, it's the complete truth. He literally does not care what option they take, he will just dispense justice as appropriate in either case. When bullets started flying and Dredd opted for the stun it showed that while he has absolutely no compunctions about killing people when the law demands it, he is never looking for excuses to do so. The kids weren't shooting with the intent to kill (yet) and so even though killing them could have been justified, The Law didn't demand it and as such Dredd didn't do it. Contrast that for example with Dirty Harry's iconic "make my day" line.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 14:03
|
|
|
Dissapointed Owl posted:Anger. And control. And something else. Joe Dredd is a secret Glee fan.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 15:39
|
|
|
rejutka posted:Joe Dredd is a secret Glee fan. No the secret is he liked season 2 of Glee
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 15:40
|
|
|
bobkatt013 posted:No the secret is he liked season 2 of Glee Wait, does Joe Dredd have a girlfriend or wife? Maybe he's gay. Maybe that is the secret. The clones were programmed to not breed.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 16:22
|
|
|
Alcholism Rocks posted:Wait, does Joe Dredd have a girlfriend or wife? He DID used to hang out with a robot with a speech impediment. But really, Dredd is married. Married to THE LAW.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 16:29
|
|
|
TheJoker138 posted:He DID used to hang out with a robot with a speech impediment. He also had his totally not racist housekeeper.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 16:30
|
|
|
moths posted:...So are we getting that BSS thread or should I start working on one? Do it please, it would make a nice change of reading from the Dredd Ethics 101 that we keep cycling into here, which while interesting, has been retrodden for pages.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 17:34
|
|
|
I'd like to point out that I noted both Chopper graffiti (my favourite 200AD storyline I never finished) and No Mutie graffiti. Also the gas they used looked like yellow mustard gas which I'm sure was deliberate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 17:43
|
|
|
Sri.Theo posted:I'd like to point out that I noted both Chopper graffiti (my favourite 200AD storyline I never finished) and No Mutie graffiti. I've read all the Chopper stories, and can tell you that all you need to read is Un-American Graffiti, Midnight Surfer, Oz and Song of the Surfer. After that there's a sharp decline in quality.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 18:35
|
|
|
Cream_Filling posted:The overcrowding is because most of the US and the rest of the world has been rendered uninhabitable by nuclear war and environmental destruction except for (in the US) Mega-City One (NYC/Beltway/Atlantic), Mega-City Two (LA/California) and Texas City (Mega-City Three). Oh and Las Vegas, I think. The rest is The Cursed Earth, a radioactive wasteland filled with mutants, warring fast-food chain cultists, and the like. This is in part probably a joke about how New York, LA, and fake cowboy western Texas are basically the only parts of the US ever featured in any media ever.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 20:41
|
|
|
Der-Wreck posted:I don't know if its been mentioned but since there's been some talk about the little things in the movie, I did notice the American flag in the classroom only had 4 or 5 stars on it to reflect the amount of mega-cities. I thought it was a neat little thing! My problem with that scene was that both Dredd and Anderson chose to torture someone in the same room as the American flag, as if to imply that the USA condones torture, which it doesn't. I prefer to think of that flag as the flag of the Mega-Cities. How dare they suggest that any American would ever torture a POW?! I did find it amusing, though, that it was implied that physical torture was ineffective, but psychic/mental torture gets results.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 22:15
|
|
|
Sri.Theo posted:Also the gas they used looked like yellow mustard gas which I'm sure was deliberate. It's another reference to the comics since the Judges use a nastier version of tear gas called Sturmm gas which may or may not have horrible side effects on the perps such as 1/250 death chance.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 22:27
|
|
|
Alcholism Rocks posted:My problem with that scene was that both Dredd and Anderson chose to torture someone in the same room as the American flag, as if to imply that the USA condones torture, which it doesn't. I prefer to think of that flag as the flag of the Mega-Cities. How dare they suggest that any American would ever torture a POW?! I love how Ma Ma touches on this too. She even admits that its not a matter of -if- he talks but -when- he talks if he is "interrogated", which is the whole reason for the lockdown. And yes, I caught your sarcasm.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 23:01
|
|
|
etalian posted:It's another reference to the comics since the Judges use a nastier version of tear gas called Sturmm gas which may or may not have horrible side effects on the perps such as 1/250 death chance. That 1/250th of the population will be remembered fondly for their sacrifice in maintaining the law. Move along, citizen. You're both right though, the stronger Sturmm in and of itself is definitely based on mustard gas (especially the way it's still fully for some time even after human senses can no longer perceive it in the area), which, like a lot of stuff in real life that's inspired sci-fi, is significantly more debilitating and deadly than the stuff in the comics. I forget which issue/whatever, but there's a point where the sturmm gas in the comics is even criticized for being "typical Soviet garbage." The Sturmm name itself is definitely a reference to Sturm Handel, a military surplus shop where you'd get gas masks/etc. that was started in Germany in 1971. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jan 17, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 23:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 15:44 |
|
|
What are all the other countries up to in the Dredd world? Do they also employ Judges? Are they also mostly wastelands? Does Dredd ever travel to the UK 
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 23:45
|
|
