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How about Retro Studios Metroid is kind of similar to Mega Man, right? fivegears4reverse posted:I don't think my heart could take seeing a Super Guide in a Mega Man game. Why? You don't have to use it. Or do Megaman players all get mad when someone with less skill than them completes a Megaman game.
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Jan 18, 2013 05:04
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Yonic Symbolism posted:Why? You don't have to use it. Or do Megaman players all get mad when someone with less skill than them completes a Megaman game. Super Guides add nothing to the game, and disagree with the defense that they help make games more accessible. Having something be accessible means it's something the player can do for themselves because the controls are good and the game design isn't garbage. The Super Guide does poo poo for you, which kinda defeats the point of even playing a game to me. That said, no I don't get upset when someone uses them. I just think it defeats the point of a game being a test of personal skill against a challenge set before you. I think it's a terrible mindset to instill in someone, especially kids, that if it's just too hard, the thing you're trying to do will complete itself. I think tutorial videos are fine, though.
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Jan 18, 2013 05:14
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Raserys posted:So, since Capcom has decided that Mega Man sucks and is not worth mention, which company should grab it? I'm personally hoping Nintendo, if only for Smash Bros. Wayforward. Mega Man with amazing graphics and a soundtrack by virt.
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Jan 18, 2013 05:21
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Yonic Symbolism posted:How about Retro Studios A new Mega Man X game! And at the end of the game, if you collected 100% of the upgrades, there's a flash of light and Zero appears in a bikini, revealing he was a girl all along!
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Jan 18, 2013 05:21
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fivegears4reverse posted:Super Guides add nothing to the game, and disagree with the defense that they help make games more accessible. Having something be accessible means it's something the player can do for themselves because the controls are good and the game design isn't garbage. The Super Guide does poo poo for you, which kinda defeats the point of even playing a game to me. Yes, our generation was truly made of sterner stuff if for no other reason than the lovely difficulty of loving NES games.
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Jan 18, 2013 05:29
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Wait, Tornado Man's weapon works on Wily 1?
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Jan 18, 2013 05:42
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On the propeller platforms, yes. It technically works on the lovely boss but barely. The fastest way to beat it is just spam Buster.
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Jan 18, 2013 05:47
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fivegears4reverse posted:Super Guides add nothing to the game They make it more fun for a lot of people that aren't you who play games to have fun and not as some sort of spergy test of your skills. Sorry this offends your sensibilities in some way.
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Jan 18, 2013 05:48
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Raserys posted:So, since Capcom has decided that Mega Man sucks and is not worth mention, which company should grab it? I'm personally hoping Nintendo, if only for Smash Bros. Platinum. 
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Jan 18, 2013 05:49
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mr. mephistopheles posted:They make it more fun for a lot of people that aren't you who play games to have fun and not as some sort of spergy test of your skills. Sorry this offends your sensibilities in some way. How is it fun to watch the game play itself for you? If that's what you want out of a game, go watch a let's play or a speed run of it. Saves money and could give you some commentary too.
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Jan 18, 2013 05:51
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Because then you can get to the part past the part you're frustrated and angry with. And also, developers feel they can make games more difficult and interesting when they have that or infinite lives.
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Jan 18, 2013 05:53
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Casual gamers playing a Megaman game would literally be the worst thing that could happen to the franchise. No, really, what the gently caress? As long as such a mode is optional it is silly to consider it a problem.
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Jan 18, 2013 05:56
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I play my Megamans casually.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:02
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I think the issue more is that just flat out beating the game for the player is the laziest way to solve difficulty issues imaginable.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:03
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quakster posted:I play my Megamans casually. What does that entail, exactly?
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Jan 18, 2013 06:07
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It's not beating the game for you, it's beating a frustrating part that is limiting your progress. And even if someone wants it to play the entire game for them it literally has no bearing on you or your experience.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:07
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quakster posted:I play my Megamans casually. Is this really a more absurd statement than "I play my Megamana hardcore  ". Unless you're Violen. Perhaps the Super Guide is lazy and a silly way of dropping the difficulty barrier, but it would make the game sell better and getting upset by seeing a feature you will never use and never alter how you're playing would be just plain stupid.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:08
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Well, yeah, it makes sense in a game where story is the main selling point but in a game where there's nothing but gameplay, having a button to skip it would be bizarre.AHungryRobot posted:What does that entail, exactly? 
quakster fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 06:08
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quakster posted:Well, yeah, it makes sense in a game where story is the main selling point but in a game where there's nothing but gameplay, having a button to skip it would be bizarre. There's an interesting part of the level past that part you're stuck on. It's not a button, it's an option that only appears if you get killed multiple times on the same part of the level. And it's already happened. The games they are in have gotten positive reviews.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:11
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I have never beaten a single game in the Classic series because I just find them so unplayably hard. Even recently I tried the Megaman 9 demo and just couldn't get it right, so a Super Guide might make me actually want to try a new game.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:14
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greatn posted:Every boss should have one one hit kill, like several in MM2 did. I really do think the weakness of the old bosses is part of why 2 and 3 are so well regarded and replayable. Megaman 4-6 had bosses that took quite a few hits even with their weaknesses and took even damage from the Mega Buster, and the playstation X Games made bosses turn invincible for like a millenia after getting hit with their special weapons. I don't think anyone ever thought to themselves "Wood Man is cool, but I wish the game punished me for using his weakness so that it was still a challenging fight". People like to completely own bosses with their weakness! Struggling to defeat Concrete Man or whatever even though you have his weakness is not a good time.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:14
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Mario is 60 levels per game, Megaman 12. Not saying I'd mind having a button like that but you already have a spike nullifying item, a bottomless pit negating thing, two different damage mitigating power-ups and a literal Easy Mode in MM10. I don't think a Super Guide would do much.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:16
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Honestly my younger self would have loved the Super Guide feature in the games I played back then. Like, I could never get past the speeder bike level of Battletoads, which meant that a majority of the game was inaccessible to me. It sucked! It's not too hard to see that something like this could be the case for someone playing a modern game as well.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:17
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To throw a curve-ball how about giving Megaman to People Who Can Fly? Think about it. First person platforming.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:17
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Monk E posted:I think the issue more is that just flat out beating the game for the player is the laziest way to solve difficulty issues imaginable. That's pretty much the core of it, but leave it to some folks to overreact in HILARIOUS fashion. I also think it's silly to have a game do something for you just because it's hard. It's better for a game to provide different difficulty settings rather than just having poo poo done for you. Yonic Symbolism posted:Because then you can get to the part past the part you're frustrated and angry with. If you have infinite lives (or simply have the game do something for you), then the game isn't really all that challenging in the end, now is it? There's nothing that really proves that a Super Guide improves level design, if that were the case, the NSMB series (and 3D Land) wouldn't be the most yawn inducing games to ever bear the Mario name. I do not want to see Mega Man's challenge go in that direction. I don't think it fits the series, and I don't think it improves the games in a way that could be considered better than "Don't make your level design like Mega Man X6, you guys!" If you think there shouldn't be failure conditions in a game just because it might make you feel better for not being able to get something right on the first try, that's your bag. I see it as an incredibly lazy solution to a game design problem. I don't want a Mega Man game where if I screw up enough the option pops up and tells me "it's okay, we can do it for you" or "is that last bit too hard? Lets make it impossible for you to die." If they have to stick in something like that, make it an option you can turn on or off (something Nintendo has a tough time imagining as of late). Mega Man as a franchise generally did a pretty good job of teaching players how to play the game without relying on a explicit tutorials or needing to switch on an easy mode so people "get it".
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Jan 18, 2013 06:19
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quakster posted:Mario is 60 levels per game, Megaman 12. Not saying I'd mind having a button like that but you already have a spike nullifying item, a bottomless pit negating thing, two different damage mitigating power-ups and a literal Easy Mode in MM10. I don't think a Super Guide would do much. I think for Megaman to make a comeback, though, it needs far more than 12 levels. Again, my ideal Megaman game would take most of its cues from Rayman: Origins.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:20
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fivegears4reverse posted:It's better for a game to provide different difficulty settings rather than just having poo poo done for you. Why? You're stating this as fact but the only thing backing you up is that Super Guides are new and different difficulty settings are old.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:22
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Square-Enix should do a Megaman.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:25
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Srice posted:Honestly my younger self would have loved the Super Guide feature in the games I played back then. Like, I could never get past the speeder bike level of Battletoads, which meant that a majority of the game was inaccessible to me. It sucked! Yonic Symbolism posted:I think for Megaman to make a comeback, though, it needs far more than 12 levels.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:26
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Mister Roboto posted:Square-Enix should do a Megaman. Would it make more sense than Megaman X6?
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Jan 18, 2013 06:27
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What people are forgetting is that the original NES Mega Man games did have Super Guides. Only back then it was called, "getting your older brother to get you past this one hard spot." Fargin Icehole posted:Would it make more sense than Megaman X6? Maybe not, but it wouldn't make less sense, either.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:34
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Yonic Symbolism posted:I think for Megaman to make a comeback, though, it needs far more than 12 levels. You're basically saying for Mega Man to come back, it shouldn't be Mega Man. There's a good idea Capcom is already receptive to, just ask the folks in the Devil may Cry thread how that's working out. Honestly, traditional Mega Man as a game, and maybe even as an IP, probably CAN'T come back, as much as I'd like it to. Not this year or maybe even in the next five. We're no longer in the era where gamers will flock to a series like Mega Man. Platforming isn't as well regarded (unless you're Mario or Rayman or DKCR...the latter two of which didn't really sell all that well compared to any given NSMB). People want co-op and competitive multiplayer, and there's a bigger market for FPS than there EVER WAS for Mega Man. Ever. Across all of its iterations, across all of the platforms it visited. The best thing that could happen to it is something like Kid Icarus Uprising, where a while from now we get a pretty kick rear end game on a popular platform that is inviting to new gamers while providing something for those who knew the series from way back AND something for those who do want to play on the hardest difficulty possible. Lurdiak posted:Why? You're stating this as fact but the only thing backing you up is that Super Guides are new and different difficulty settings are old. I can do this too with regards to Super Guides and other special handicaps. It's been stated that these things "improve game design". What game has actually been improved by the existence of a Super Guide? How would having the game play itself make a better Mega Man videogame? The only defense I've seen of it consists of "Games are hard, and I don't want them to be hard, that is aggravating. I should be able to win anyway."
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Jan 18, 2013 06:36
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quakster posted:Sounds like you are willing to let Megaman go, then, which is good. Bye-bye, Blue Bomber. Look, if another megaman game is desired that is design wise just like every other NES/SNES megaman, what's the point? There's already plenty of games put out and now there's decent rom hacks and original sequels being made by others. Look, I'm starting to not be able to believe some of this poo poo. Maybe I can accept being upset by super guides, a bit. I don't like this viewpoint, but I can kind of get it. But having more levels is an affront to Megaman? Really? More content is bad? I'm getting shouted down for "not really wanting a megaman game" for thinking that maybe the game could have more levels? Hemingway To Go! fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 06:36
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Exactly. And what's the point of hanging on to a 25-year old IP, anyway, when you can come up with something fresh? Now, this idea of yours: "Like Megaman, but longer." I'm intrigued, but a design document it ain't. What else would this game entail. I'm not upset at all, I've actually defended the Super Guide on other forums. It does make sense to expect goons to be hostile but I never intend to be. I'm Cool With The Guide. quakster fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 06:42
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I wouldn't mind the super guide, mostly because every super guide game I've played has been hard as poo poo. I mean, have you guys played DKCR? That poo poo is insane.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:45
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fivegears4reverse posted:You're basically saying for Mega Man to come back, it shouldn't be Mega Man. There's a good idea Capcom is already receptive to, just ask the folks in the Devil may Cry thread how that's working out. The review scores and the user scores on metacritic are a sight to behold. One side has a 85 score the other a 3.5. I honestly don't think it has worked out too bad. It could have been much worse. In terms of Super Guides, I really don't see much wrong with them since it allows people of varying skill levels to experience the game. Not everyone plays video games for challenge, and not everyone plays Mega Man for the challenge either. I mean I guess you can use the Super guide to play through the whole level for you if you want, but it also serves as a convenient means of taking you through annoying obstacles to show you how its done. It even allows you to redo the section if you want.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:49
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Yonic Symbolism posted:Look, I'm starting to not be able to believe some of this poo poo. Maybe I can accept being upset by super guides, a bit. I don't like this viewpoint, but I can kind of get it. But having more levels is an affront to Megaman? Really? More content is bad? I'm getting shouted down for "not really wanting a megaman game" for thinking that maybe the game could have more levels? No, you're being "shouted down" because you want a Mega Man game that is more like a Rayman game. I don't think the two games match up whatsoever as is, the only things they really hold in common is that you run and you jump. Hell, the dream game of someone else in this thread in the last five pages is basically putting ALL of the robot masters and ALL of the levels in a one game. More content by itself isn't a problem. My problem with your post is that you want "more Mega Man content" that "doesn't play like a Mega Man game (and is more like Rayman ideally), which kinda defeats at least some of the purpose of it being a Mega Man game." I think they could still make a Mega Man style game that improves upon the current formula and still has solid level design and still provides a fair challenge. It'd take a lot more effort than Capcom is clearly willing to expend these days, because the biggest change to the Mega Man formula was Legends and the BN styled games (they kinda sorta cancelled one of those, and drove the other into the ground sadly). That's not true, they did make Xover, that's a pretty big change to the Mega Man formula.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:54
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Mega Man (almost) always had passwords, which you could use to skip stages, skip ahead, get items you did not earn, and so on. If someone uses a super guide in game and auto-plays the whole thing, that just means a little less youtube money for some poor quality let's play channel.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:55
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quakster posted:Exactly. And what's the point of hanging on to a 25-year old IP, anyway, when you can come up with something fresh? Each boss fortress would have multiple sublevels, hidden levels, and a boss level. The boss level would not be just the showdown, it would be treated like the final level of just the fortress and pretty much be like a classic megaman boss level. Hidden content could include smaller weapons, upgrades to boss weapons, past bosses with weapons, stuff like that. Perhaps to keep the player from having to complete an entire fortress without seeing a new weapon, their could be multiple encounters with bosses or lackey, and further defeats improve the weapon drastically and give it new capabilities. I'm willing to compromise on the lives idea and just have it be like the games (you have a number of chances to complete the level otherwise you're booted out), but I kind of think that infinite lives are a good modern ideal and should at least be an option. It's not like you've never gotten through a level you were bad at just by dumb luck before, and infinite lives to me actually challenge me to get my best run possible on a stage rather than cheesing it. Rayman Origins also gives a number of rewards per stage depending on what goals you ended the level achieving, with the points going towards unlocking the last parts of the game and a second end level, which I think is a good way to compromise on "test of skills" vs "I have a job and I just want to play this an hour". Ideally, I'd also like something like Rayman Origin's artwork instead of the horrible artstyles Capcom's tried or an NES retread, and their level design sensabilities - the game has levels where EVERYTHING is moving, bending, and turning. That kind of thing combined with a better platforming skillset (Rayman can control jumping momentum in all directions, for instance, and would it kill Megaman to be able to grab a goddamn ledge?) and enemies could make for an amazing experience - modern tech could handle swarms of enemies, or enemies with more complex behavior. I mean, Sonic has more levels and different gameplay than it used to and it's doing fine. And Megaman didn't even stagnate on the NES. The charge and jump were not all there til the fourth game.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:58
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fivegears4reverse posted:No, you're being "shouted down" because you want a Mega Man game that is more like a Rayman game. I don't think the two games match up whatsoever as is, the only things they really hold in common is that you run and you jump. Hell, the dream game of someone else in this thread in the last five pages is basically putting ALL of the robot masters and ALL of the levels in a one game. More content by itself isn't a problem. Megaman has several games that play very different from each other. X4 plays differently than X3 if you pick Zero. X8 plays out a lot differently than any of the other games in the franchise. X7 does too, although lovely. The Zero games also make changes to the formula. Light Gun Man posted:Mega Man (almost) always had passwords, which you could use to skip stages, skip ahead, get items you did not earn, and so on. If someone uses a super guide in game and auto-plays the whole thing, that just means a little less youtube money for some poor quality let's play channel. Who says people will do this though and even if they do, who cares? Also, I think we are past the days of passwords, thank goodness.
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Jan 18, 2013 07:00
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