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Nait Sirhc posted:When I was looking, I drove an absolutely beautiful Alpine White/black leather/aluminum trim 330i sedan. I then drove an e36 M3 sedan. The M3 was slightly faster (and the same price as the e46), but the 330 was lightyears ahead in comfort, interior quality, exterior appearance (imo), ride quality, DD-ability, night visibility (OEM xenons), and pretty much everything other than raw power & handling. The M3 was definitely a more visceral experience, but the 330 was still a pretty agile car compared to all the other luxury same-gen compacts (IS300, A4, CL, G35). Pick up a ZHP knob & short shifter and you've got the M3 shifter action; if you want to go even further, some Bilstein coilovers/ES bushings/misc suspension parts will give you the M3 handling as well. Yeah you've got my wheels turning on this one. I found this today: http://charlotte.craigslist.org/cto/3550927929.html I was thinking I could get him down another 500 or so. I'm just biting my nails wondering if I get a 330 will I just wish I had gotten the m3. Only problem is I can't find an M3 that cheap with miles that low. Well, not one that hasn't been wrecked. And you're right, the M3 is only a mild HP bump over the 330 with a 3.0 I don't have much driving experience in either car...well any really. So I don't have a lot to compare it to tbh. I'm just thinking the 330 fits into my budget much better. I was considering borrowing 3k from the bank and paying most of it back after I get my taxes to boost my budget on the m3....but I feel like it's gonna cost that plus more for all the poo poo I'm going to have to fix on it.
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Jan 17, 2013 19:29
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Is there any particular reason you want a vert? I found the 330 vert to be far worse handling than the 330 coupe or sedan (same goes for the M3 vert vs M3 coupe)
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Jan 17, 2013 21:38
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Nait Sirhc posted:Is there any particular reason you want a vert? I found the 330 vert to be far worse handling than the 330 coupe or sedan (same goes for the M3 vert vs M3 coupe) Yeah, the E46 is actually a pretty well known example vehicle for the impact of body style on torsional rigidity due to its availability in so many forms. code:
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Jan 17, 2013 21:55
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You can pry my folding seats from my E46's cold dead hands, torsional rigidity be damned. They make the car a bajillion percent more practical.
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Jan 17, 2013 22:01
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That was something I hadn't really considered. What kind of difference are we talking about? I'm not tracking the car. I see the numbers posted...I'm just curious as to to difference of feel. I'm only considering a coupe or vert. Is the difference between 10 and 12 massive? Are we talking night and day or something I'm gonna wanna put a roll bar on. I've never owned a vert of anything. Just thought it would be fun for the mountains or beach. Also the price was good for the quality of the vehicle. My only hangup is that maybe vert's look kind of 
Shachi fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jan 17, 2013 |
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Jan 17, 2013 22:28
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Guinness posted:You can pry my folding seats from my E46's cold dead hands, torsional rigidity be damned. They make the car a bajillion percent more practical. I won't argue that. I looked in to converting to folding seats, but found that it's pretty much impossible to retrofit at a reasonable cost due to the body shells actually being different. Plan B is just buying a beater pickup for when I need to haul things. No idea how much it affects the feel. I see forum posts from people claiming that a M3 coupe needs a rear strut brace to feel as stiff as a fixed-seat sedan, but how that translates to real-world driving I haven't a clue. Some cars I'd expect to handle better have far lower numbers here, others are far greater. A Mk5 VW GTI clocks in around 25,000 Nm/deg and a Veyron around 60,000. The M3s aren't documented but are apparently better than their non-M counterparts but still worse than sedans.
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Jan 17, 2013 22:51
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Chassis rigidity isn't the only factor anyway. Suspension geometry, springs/dampers, tires, and steering all play a big role in how you perceive a car to handle. I'm pretty sure my M3 is less rigid than any e46 but it responds to my inputs much better than my ZHP did, and this is all on stock components, including original dampers. The e36 chassis just feels "right" to me. Again, this is why you should go drive BOTH cars. I wouldn't trade my e36s for anything (well, a rust free e30 but that is a fairy tale) and plan to buy another.
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Jan 17, 2013 23:43
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Crustashio posted:Chassis rigidity isn't the only factor anyway. Suspension geometry, springs/dampers, tires, and steering all play a big role in how you perceive a car to handle. I'm pretty sure my M3 is less rigid than any e46 but it responds to my inputs much better than my ZHP did, and this is all on stock components, including original dampers. The e36 chassis just feels "right" to me. Again, this is why you should go drive BOTH cars. I wouldn't trade my e36s for anything (well, a rust free e30 but that is a fairy tale) and plan to buy another. Yeah. I'd still love to get an E36 M3. Just finding one, in my price range, that's not a piece of poo poo, is beginning to look improbable. I could keep looking for months on end but I'm in a bit of a time crunch. My wife is pregnant with our first child and if I don't get something soon, my money from selling my car is going to get absorbed elsewhere. At least that's her suggestion. I guess another option would be to scope out an E36 328i for vastly less expense. Just feels like a waste when I could get more for the money. The difference between the 328 and the 330 is quite a gap I think.
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Jan 17, 2013 23:59
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Cross post from the "Ask which car is right for you, and whether you can afford one" thread. Could use some advice more on the budgeting side of saving for a car. Recent gradate with a new job and finally I have some decent money coming in, I also have no debt. I have set a budget to save $20,000 by the end of 2013 which as long as I stick to my budget should be no problem. I currently drive a 1987 BMW 325is with around 117,xxx miles on it but it is in very good condition mechanically and aesthetically I project to be able to sell it at the end of the year for $3000. I am saving for my dream car that I have wanted for years now, a used BMW M3 I'm leaning towards a 2002ish e46 but am not opposed to an older model (e36, or ideally e30). My issue is what can I expect as far as maintenance/gas/insurance or recurring bills from owning an M3? I know repair on them can get pricey very quick but I hope to get one in good condition and I will take very good care of it. If it helps I am in Wisconsin but would not be adverse to looking elsewhere to pick up the car. Budget: Cash by end of 2013: $20,000 1987 BMW 325is: sold for possibly $3,000 (does this sound resonable?) Total = ~$23,000 My estimate for cost and what I would like to spend at most on the car is $20,000 does this sounds reasonable? What other unexpected purchasing fees can I expect? Also my current plan is to do this with money in hand. Would getting a loan even though I don't need it be worthwhile? I currently have no credit and would like to start establishing some, is it possible to get a loan and then straight up pay it back immediately for some insta-credit? Help a financially clueless goon out! Popete fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 02:43
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Popete posted:My estimate for cost and what I would like to spend at most on the car is $20,000 does this sounds reasonable? What other unexpected purchasing fees can I expect? Also my current plan is to do this with money in hand. Would getting a loan even though I don't need it be worthwhile? I currently have no credit and would like to start establishing some, is it possible to get a loan and then straight up pay it back immediately for some insta-credit? This is a touchy subject for any one really. It all depends on what you feel comfortable shelling out. I paid half of what was owed for my E60 and then took the other half on a loan. My loan interest is 2.5% and its only 4 year note. I would much rather have the extra cash in my bank account to save for a rainy day. And the cost of the loan was only 400 bucks (I gotta look at the paper work). Yeah I could have saved the 400 bucks over the cost of 4 years, but I also have some money tied up in a savings paying about 2.5% as well. So I am breaking even by having a note. And from my understanding, paying a loan off right away is actually kind of frowned upon. If you pay it back in about half the time, it for some reason looks better to the banks. Banks want to make money off loaning you money. Why the hell would they give you money, do all the associated paper work, etc and then have you turn around a month later and give them the money back? Shop around, get some rate ideas. Again, this is all purely to each his own. What I may do seems like an incredibly lovely idea to some one else, and then the next person may think its the best idea ever.
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Jan 18, 2013 03:10
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Popete posted:Cross post from the "Ask which car is right for you, and whether you can afford one" thread. A loan on a car that old will have unfavorable terms regardless of your credit. Please don't daily drive an E30 M3 in Wisconsin. If this is the first substantial amount of money you've saved please don't spend it all on a car. If you've managed to save a substantial amount of money in addition to the $20k car fund, then good for you, not many people can do that. Go buy an M3 and something else for winter driving. If not, and $20k will be all of your savings, go finance a reliable daily driver and start a second M3 fund in addition to your savings.
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Jan 18, 2013 03:15
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Popete posted:Cross post from the "Ask which car is right for you, and whether you can afford one" thread. Automotve Sanity answer: spend half your budget, buy a good E46 330 and save the rest. But since this is AI and not AS, I would look at E9x 328s and the E82 128i...both of which are in your price range. As much as I love the E46 M3, it's kind of a lousy commuter car, both in terms of comfort and cost (running cost for an M3 can easily exceed a thousand dollars a month when you include fuel, maintenance and insurance). Also, since you see winter in Wisconsin, bear in mind that the M3 isn't all that great in the snow, even on (expensive) winter tires - a normal 3er is a lot better in the winter.
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Jan 18, 2013 03:34
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Guinness posted:You can pry my folding seats from my E46's cold dead hands, torsional rigidity be damned. They make the car a bajillion percent more practical. I can fit a 7'8" surfboard inside of my 330ci and close the trunk.  Also Costco. And Ikea.
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Jan 18, 2013 03:57
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Popete posted:Help a financially clueless goon out! Come back in December when you've saved $20,000: Your priorities might change between then and now, your budget is likely based on being a cheap student so might become inaccurate when you realize other fun ways to spend money (travel, going out, etc), and after seeing what it took to save all that money you may feel differently about spending it all at once. If I were a recent grad with less than $30k in the bank, I would buy a great e46 330i while I save up and figure things out. In a few years you'll have a lot more money and a better idea of how you want to spend it. If you decided to make a big purchase then you'll have a lot perspective. But you're free to spend your money however you want. My advice for a ten year old BMW is pay in cash, investigate every weird noise, smell, and warning light immediately, and make sure there is always $1-2k in your checking account that you wouldn't miss if it were to disappear all at once. This is independent of your other emergency and retirement savings.
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Jan 18, 2013 04:25
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ynotony posted:Come back in December when you've saved $20,000: Your priorities might change between then and now, your budget is likely based on being a cheap student so might become inaccurate when you realize other fun ways to spend money (travel, going out, etc), and after seeing what it took to save all that money you may feel differently about spending it all at once. This man preaches the gospel word. With half your $20k savings you can buy a pristine E46 330i if you look hard enough. Take anything you're serious about buying to a BMW-familiar garage for a pre-purchase inspection, and ALWAYS have $2,000 written off as car money at any point in time. Primary points of concern regardless of mileage after you purchase are: cooling system, a full suspension refresh, all fluids (engine, transmission, differential, power steering, brakes), just about anything rubber (tires, bushings, mounts, hoses, valve cover gasket, etc.), and standard maintenance stuff like filters and brake pads/rotors. Check receipts and maintenance records and run away from anything without a solid paperwork history. Learn about the subframe mount failures and have the accessible areas looked at very closely during the pre-purchase inspection. For $2,000 you can DIY close to everything in that list, or perhaps just do one or two large jobs. I have spent no more than $400 a year (not including purchase price, insurance, fuel, or two sets of tires) on an E46 for 6 years and I'm on the verge of neglecting the suspension. Parts for a full front and rear suspension refresh are around $1,200 - I have no idea what labor might cost. If you're buying a proper transmission the parts you'll want to replace the clutch are around $300 (again no idea on labor). All in all E46's are very well documented and within the realm of do-it-yourself. If you're looking for something you can drop off at the mechanic every time something sounds funny or a dashboard light turns on then I would start looking at spending that $20k on something with a bit of warranty left on it. You could certainly get a brand new Honda Fit/et al. for that kind of cash, or get a bit more than halfway into a certified pre-owned E90 if you have a lusting BMW itch that must be scratched. Just try to convince yourself that a non-warranty BMW absolutely REQUIRES a maintenance fund of around $2,000 to responsibly own and still sleep at night. Look at them between now and the next December knowing that you aren't making a purchase anytime soon and you should have a great feel for what's available. A good E46 is an amazing car - one of the best of the few BMW's I've ever driven, and certainly the best fun for value for money I've ever driven. There's a ton of abused poor examples out there that will suck you dry, though.
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Jan 18, 2013 05:18
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Chinatown posted:I can fit a 7'8" surfboard inside of my 330ci and close the trunk. I don't have fold down seats but I have literally put 10, 8 foot 2x4's in the front passenger seat (move forward and lay it all the way back) of my E46 Sedan. The key is to slide them in from the rear passenger side door and of course use nice clean canvas tarps. I have done the same with cedar fence boards, although I usually strap them to the roof racks as they leave sawdust loving everywhere. My E46 is my pickup truck. :germany:
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Jan 18, 2013 05:58
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Good advice all around, thanks. My dad owned an e46 330i and I loved driving it when I went home to visit, had great speed and was comfortable and classy as all hell. I've been pining after a M3 since high school and now that I have the means I'm set on owning one in the near(ish) future. I know it's financially a stupid decision to blow 20k on a car to replace my current decent e30 but dammit I just love M3's. I think I'll take the advice to start doing more research well before I plan on purchasing get an idea of what costs will be. I do plan to only get the car when I have the money in hand no loan ahead of time. As far as having 2k as a safety net that's about what I expected and is something I would be willing to deal with for the luxury of owning the car. As stated before I am still living in a college budget mode, so I am actually saving much more than I have originally budgeted at this point. I'm sure that will change as I start adjusting to having disposable income. Any thoughts on getting an older e36? Are they more reasonable maintanence wise? I am semi capable of doing maintenance and am more than willing to learn to do it myself. Electrical stuff shouldn't be a problem for me, and I have taken apart and rebuilt an old engine before so I have a basic idea of whats going on underneath the hood.
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Jan 18, 2013 06:03
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Captain Postal posted:The vapour barrier is unique to BMW. In the rest of the world it is called the door sound insulation (in BMW forums the names are used interchangeably). There are plenty of videos on youtube of how to access it and repair or replace it. The sealer they install it with can leak, and DIY jobs by previous owners tend to leak like a mofo The other thing about the vapor barrier being unique, is there's a good chance a shop won't know what to do with it. On both my BMW's I've had to replace the sealant or the vapor barrier and sealant because someone did a window repair and had no idea that it was an integral part in the water-proofing (one shop just tore it to pieces). If you're going near it, I'd get some new windo-weld and when doing the install make sure to use a hair dryer to make it stickier. Pretty easy to do, maybe hour and a half job total if you're really anal about all the details. Unless you have the privacy screens on an E39, then you need to take the wood trim panel off to get to screws that none of the videos on the internet even think exist  .Internet posted:BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) 18,000 Nm/deg Deceptor101 fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 08:45
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Welp, I did it. I made an offer on the 330ci for $7k and I get to pick it up on Monday.  I jockey'd the guy over the radiator replacement needing to be done for which he was quoted $425 for a new radiator as the reason I was offering $500 off the price. I sourced an OEM radiator from Pelican for $150 so w/e. I don't see any record for a water pump replacement having been done so I guess I'll do that too along with a new thermostat. The records on the car are pretty funny. The lady who owned it before him took it to the dealership for nearly everything, including a tail light replacement. The invoice literally says Complaint: Cust says OBC indicates tail light failure. Solution: Replaced bulb. -$45 He's owned the car since July and hasn't done anything short of an oil change and new brakes. I think the only thing I'm not looking forward to is that it has the 18" M3 wheels on it and the Z rated tires for em are like $250 a pop but they've got over 80% tread on em. I might just buy new wheels before doing that and sell the rims. They've got some curb rash so I was going to try out that DIY to repaint them. One thing I keep running across when looking up DIY's on radiator replacement is this "Replace with BMW coolant only, duh" idea that permeates the cesspool of the various bimmer forums. Please tell me that this is crock of poo poo that it looks like and that any phosphate free anti-freeze will do. Same for BMW only oil and filters. I never bought into this poo poo before with Honda's that suggest the same but I guess BMW's are a lot different. Surely this isn't the case.
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Jan 19, 2013 02:10
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Shachi posted:
I've heard a lot of people say that the BMW coolant is indeed the way to go. I'm sure others will chime in, but that's always what I used. It's $20 for a gallon of concentrated coolant at the dealer. I don't remember the specific reason, but it shouldn't be too hard to dig up. edit: here. Regarding the oil and oil filter, you can get an OEM oil filter (MANN brand, I believe) online for under $5 usually. I had good experience using Castrol synthetic oil, but I'm sure any name-brand oil will do as long as you change it at the appropriate interval (and use the correct weight). For my last oil change I bought BMW synthetic oil (which is a rebranded Euro-formula Castrol) because it was the same price as Castrol Edge and (supposedly) it's good for 10k miles, though I'm sure I'll change it long before that.
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Jan 19, 2013 03:25
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I just use the BMW coolant it's not like you are going through hundreds of gallons of the poo poo and I would be pissed if I inspected a used car and didn't see it in there. A case of Oil(12 qts of 5-30) from my local dealer costs $96. You can also find reasonably priced oil change kits on Amzn including the cabin filter. The best investment for a DIYer with a pre-2008 BMW is to get a Mityvac and suck the old oil out through the dipstick tube - so you don't have to lift the car to do your own oil change. The genius of our BMW's is that loving top mounted OIL filter.
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Jan 19, 2013 03:51
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Keyser S0ze posted:I just use the BMW coolant it's not like you are going through hundreds of gallons of the poo poo and I would be pissed if I inspected a used car and didn't see it in there. I haven't owned a car in years that I could change the oil in without having to lift it up...I kind of chalk it up as part of the task nowadays. Still got my wife's Honda to contend with. I guess the Bimmer Coolant isn't so bad to spring for. I was more curious because I know the guy I bought the car from has been topping it off with regular poo poo monthly due to the leak. Wasn't sure if there was some MAGICAL reason to use the BMW stuff that would be detrimental to the car. He's only had the car since July of last year and the radiator crack is recent. I'm just thankful he hasn't been dumping stop leak in there...
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Jan 19, 2013 06:51
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I put prestone in my E46 after the doing the cooling system overhaul and it was fine for me, though most people will just tell you to stick with OEM since it's not a huge cost difference and you get peace of mind.
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Jan 19, 2013 07:08
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I used the BMW coolant in my recent overhaul; seeing as it was cheaper at my indie shop than a bottle of the green poo poo was anywhere else, it was a no-brainer.
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Jan 19, 2013 17:41
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If you ever wanted a new 1995 M3... http://charlotte.craigslist.org/ctd/3549820625.html
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Jan 19, 2013 17:44
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Someone call up and see how much they actually want for that thing, I bet you could get an E46 M3 for as much as they want for it.
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Jan 19, 2013 17:48
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...and it's only a '95 vvv even if it's pristine, it's the '95 model with the smaller-displacement engine. 10k is a fair price because of the great condition, any thing over 12k is delusional Kenshin fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jan 19, 2013 |
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Jan 19, 2013 17:50
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rscott posted:Someone call up and see how much they actually want for that thing, I bet you could get an E46 M3 for as much as they want for it. Probably ~12-15. Enthusiast auto has a 55k M3 for just over 15, and their prices are ridiculously inflated. Unless it's an LTW or seriously low mileage, e36 m3s top out around 15-16 for pristine examples. That cloth interior is easily worth 2000 though.
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Jan 19, 2013 18:00
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Crustashio posted:Probably ~12-15. Enthusiast auto has a 55k M3 for just over 15, and their prices are ridiculously inflated. Unless it's an LTW or seriously low mileage, e36 m3s top out around 15-16 for pristine examples. As clean as that M3 is, for that kind of money I'd hold out for one of the Euro-spec '94s; a couple of years ago I was about ten minutes too late buying one, and that guy was asking $15k for it (and it was almost as clean/lower mileage than that one).
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Jan 19, 2013 18:05
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I'd feel bad tracking it for roughly 10 seconds before realizing it would finally be doing what it was designed for.
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Jan 19, 2013 18:06
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MrChips posted:As clean as that M3 is, for that kind of money I'd hold out for one of the Euro-spec '94s; a couple of years ago I was about ten minutes too late buying one, and that guy was asking $15k for it (and it was almost as clean/lower mileage than that one). You can get eurospec S50B32s now for 11k, and S50B30s (which is honestly what you want if you like reliability) for even less. If you could find both an e36 m3 with a blown motor and a wrecked e46 m3 you could basically make a eurospec car that has NA parts. I hope people keep bringing them in though, as it ups my chances of getting a hurricane cloth set of vaders. I went with an NA spec S52 because I plan to beat the absolute poo poo out of it for years to come. Crustashio fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jan 19, 2013 |
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Jan 19, 2013 18:33
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rscott posted:Someone call up and see how much they actually want for that thing, I bet you could get an E46 M3 for as much as they want for it. The car is on ebay with a BIN of $19.5K. A realistic selling price would be closer to 15 given the low mileage and cloth interior. 10K is more in line for a needs nothing e36 m3, but the low mileage examples are going for a premium + the cloth interior. Reminds of the 99 m3 with 3K miles on it...asking price way too high for what it is and will probably be for sale forever. Realjones fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jan 19, 2013 |
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Jan 19, 2013 19:00
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How loud is the stock E36 fuel pump? My '95 stumbled and died last night on the way home. The truck just dropped it off, and after pulling my e-fan fuse and turning the climate control off, I can hear no electric motor noise at all when I stick my ear right on the rubber pad over the fuel pump. Should I be able to hear it priming when my assistant turns the key to Run?
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Jan 19, 2013 23:11
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Not that loud try slamming your hand on the backseat.
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Jan 20, 2013 00:43
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Jealous Cow posted:If you ever wanted a new 1995 M3... http://charlotte.craigslist.org/ctd/3549820625.html I looked at that car. I'm not a big fan of the alcantra interior. Also they want over $15k for it but wouldn't come out and say it directly. They wanted me to come out to the shop to "see it for myself" and then decide. They're a bunch of asshats.
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Jan 20, 2013 02:07
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Jonny 290 posted:How loud is the stock E36 fuel pump? Did you check the relay with another known good one?  Relay #1, try a different one. Its also worth jumping the relay too, just to double check your wiring. BrokenKnucklez fucked around with this message at 02:18 on Jan 20, 2013 |
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Jan 20, 2013 02:15
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Are they going to be the same pinout/current rating generally? Steal the horn relay, perhaps?
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Jan 20, 2013 02:41
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Jonny 290 posted:Are they going to be the same pinout/current rating generally? Steal the horn relay, perhaps? I *think* so. usually there is a diagram on the side of the relay to show how it functions. Most of them are usually the same.
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Jan 20, 2013 03:04
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Anything the same colour and pin layout should be interchangeable from what I remember.
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Jan 20, 2013 03:05
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Got it, swapped the horn and fuel pump relays, no change. Should have tried to honk, too, I guess. More work tomorrow; sun's down, it's cold.
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Jan 20, 2013 03:29
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