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Yeah, Dark Elves are good at precision strikes. They use their mobility to hit weak points in a defense and shove vulnerable players off the pitch. And they don't just punch their cages down the field so much as they dodge around the opposition to roll their cage forward until a good short pass or handoff will let them break away. But they'll get pasted in an straight-up brawl against anyone with access to ST4 players and/or guard.
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Jan 17, 2013 20:36
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Cowcaster posted:I would stick Lizards in the "good beginner teams" section. Two types of players not counting the big guy makes it simple to learn the dodging game with skinks and the smashing game with sauruses. They have no block to start, and the saursus level quite slowly.
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Jan 17, 2013 20:42
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Cowcaster posted:I would stick Lizards in the "good beginner teams" section. Two types of players not counting the big guy makes it simple to learn the dodging game with skinks and the smashing game with sauruses. gently caress that poo poo, be a man and start Khemri like me.
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Jan 17, 2013 23:13
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Yeah, I really wouldn't say that lizards are a godo starting team. In fact, I'd say they're one of the hardest teams to get off the ground. Sure they have a ton of strength advantage, but they have almost no starting skills on Saurii, but at the sme time you really need your Saurii to level in line with your skinks. I'm not an amazing player by any stretch, but I find Lizard tobe one of the hardest teams to both play, and play against.
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Jan 17, 2013 23:42
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Ogres and snotlings both have a lot of starting skills so Ogres are clearly the best beginner team. Also Ogres are a good starting team because it's nice to have it bashed in right away that sometimes everything will just go wrong and you just have to be able to roll with that when it happens and just say "Ogres." over and over again. It's very therapeutic.
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Jan 17, 2013 23:45
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The 6 bone-head turn is a thing of beauty that should not be reserved for only experienced players.
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Jan 17, 2013 23:46
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Personal_Nirvana posted:Welp, guess balance is out of the equation then. Yeah that's not really how Games Workshop balances things. Certain teams are intentionally worse than others and all things being equal are less likely to come away with a victory. Play Dark Elves and Orks, Humans are a decent starting team but they're also not a great team so you're gonna get crushed. You also need to abandon the idea of fair-play, there is no fair play in bloodbowl. Some of the most effective strategies revolve around mostly ignoring trying to score in the first half while murdering the opponents team so you can easily score and prevent a counter-score in the second half. If you want to avoid bashy slugfests try Skaven, Woodies or Pro Elves, they allow you to play more of a screening and delaying game, forcing your opponent to make risky rolls which they fail, allowing you to score. Even on those teams (skaven especially) you are going to have murderers whose job is to execute precision strikes to remove troublesome enemy players. It's bloodbowl.
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Jan 18, 2013 00:07
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uPen posted:Yeah that's not really how Games Workshop balances things. Certain teams are intentionally worse than others and all things being equal are less likely to come away with a victory. Play Dark Elves and Orks, Humans are a decent starting team but they're also not a great team so you're gonna get crushed. Seriously. Goblins were an original team, and were just like halflings - all goblins and up to 2 trolls - but no halfling chef option. They were absolute suck that could be a ridiculous amount of fun to play and leave your opponent saying WTF!?! when you managed to score 4-5 times in a single game thanks to lucky rolls and throw team mate (only to have your mega-goblin get eaten by an always hungry troll in the next game).
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Jan 18, 2013 01:08
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He meant playstyle balance, not overall balance. edit: Actually, I'm not sure what he's talking about.
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Jan 18, 2013 01:13
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uPen posted:Yeah that's not really how Games Workshop balances things. Certain teams are intentionally worse than others and all things being equal are less likely to come away with a victory. Play Dark Elves and Orks, Humans are a decent starting team but they're also not a great team so you're gonna get crushed. Yea i noticed i had the wrong mindset while aproaching the game. Is there any reason at all for a player to go with any team not specailized on hand-to-hand?  I can certainly see the appeal for a more experienced player to play a screening team, since in theory those take more skills and analytical/tactical thinking to make it work. But when a bashing team has a less risky strategy and requires less skill to take a team off the ground, why go any other way?
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Jan 18, 2013 01:14
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Personal_Nirvana posted:Yea i noticed i had the wrong mindset while aproaching the game. Elves are fun to play as and are extremely good at what they do. If you play well as them, you wont die so horribly, and you'll run up the score like crazy. People commonly say that the basic Elf team (Pro Elf, or just Elf in Cyanide Blood Bowl) is the best team in the game, and they're probably not wrong. They're just not easy for inexperienced players to immediately understand. It requires a completely different style of play. The only outright bad teams are stunty teams like Halflings and also Khemri. Most of the other teams can do well in competition-level play. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 01:17
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Personal_Nirvana posted:Yea i noticed i had the wrong mindset while aproaching the game. It depends on if your goal is to win games or just to cultivate a super elite team. Bashy play is "safe" in that your dudes are less likely to die, but if you take a bashy team up vs. competent elves you have to be very clever or very lucky in order to win.
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Jan 18, 2013 01:27
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Personal_Nirvana posted:Yea i noticed i had the wrong mindset while aproaching the game. In general bashy teams have to play the 2-1 grind where you force your opponent to score quickly, score against them, then in the second half stall for 8 turns before scoring to win the game. If you're playing a slow team like dwarves or orks it can be hard to recover if your plan goes wrong in any way. Elfy teams on the other hand are able to consistently get touchdowns in 1-3 turns allowing you to score quickly, then try to slow your opponent down, forcing them to make a series of risky rolls to score. If they screw that series of rolls up it becomes very easy for you to regain control of the ball and score again. I'm also not sure I'd call bashy teams 'less risky.' If you're playing bashy and you find yourself with less players on the pitch than your opponent you are going to be in for a rough time even if they're just a bunch of sissy elves. You need to hurt people and keep the momentum. Elfy teams are able to attempt bullshit plays that allow you to win even if your team has been wrecked. For example I've scored with literally 1 player on the pitch as skaven on my opponents drive.
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Jan 18, 2013 01:42
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uPen posted:For example I've scored with literally 1 player on the pitch as skaven on my opponents drive. Gutter Runners. 
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Jan 18, 2013 01:45
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Washout posted:Custom formations bug:
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Jan 18, 2013 01:46
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Mejwell posted:So as long as he never touches the formation dropdown ever again, this should no longer be a problem for him (assuming that he has a formation that's in error)? As long as he doesn't click that, AND does not click on any of his own players!
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Jan 18, 2013 01:58
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Welp, my first match as Necromantics ended. My Ghoul got 14 SPP.  I scored 3TDs on the opponent's drive in the first half, didn't score at all on my own half. My 3TD ghoul got MVP, only other player to get SPP was a Flesh Golem, he got 2. What a crazy loving match. edit: He rolled doubles. what the fuuuuuuckWhat on earth do I get this guy? Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 03:00
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Your ghouls are ball handlers are are gonna die constantly so don't get attached. I would probably ignore the double and get block and follow it up with sidestep. If you want to use the double I'd probably get guard and follow it with block.
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Jan 18, 2013 03:07
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Welp, my first match as Necromantics ended. My Ghoul got 14 SPP. I always go for block first on ghouls since they are both valuable and vulnerable, but if you can get +AGI it is probably worth the risk to grab that and pray he survives to take block later?
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Jan 18, 2013 03:08
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uPen posted:Your ghouls are ball handlers are are gonna die constantly so don't get attached. I would probably ignore the double and get block and follow it up with sidestep. If you want to use the double I'd probably get guard and follow it with block. Yeah seconded, ignore doubles on a ghouls first skill and take block instead. Then either sidestep or sure hands. Ghouls might be one of those that you ignore all doubles on actually. Washout fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 03:11
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Washout posted:Yeah seconded, ignore doubles on a ghouls first skill and take block instead. Then either sidestep or sure hands. Ghouls might be one of those that you ignore all doubles on actually. But then how will you get the vaunted Necromantic Passing Game going? 
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Jan 18, 2013 03:29
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Which team you play really depends on what you enjoy. If you enjoy cultivating a team that doesn't die much and causes lots of anguish, play a bashy team. If you enjoy pulling off flashy, ridiculous plays and just running rings around your opponent, play a speedy team. Although some teams are just undeniably weaker than others, the best agile teams can easily match it with the best bashy teams at similar TV. Long-term, you really need to be playing a bashy team in order to remain competitive. It reaches a stage where a bashy team's ability to knock your players out of the match grows quicker than your ability to create scores. But agile teams are good fun anywhere up to around 1800TV. I much prefer playing Skaven and trying to pull off bullshit plays that just smashing up people with Nurgle. If you want the best of both worlds, Necromantic is a pretty good option. Some fast characters, some strong characters, and some fodder to use for fouling etc.
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Jan 18, 2013 04:10
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I just played my first multiplayer game. 1000 Lizards vs. The General's 1060 High Elves. It was one of those games where the dice aren't completely unfair, but things go right for the other guy at crucial times. Most notably he got some really lucky armor rolls and put two Saurus out badly hurt in the first 4 turns. Also dodged into a tackle zone with a blitzer, then dodged out of there into two tackle zones to double-mark my Krox, who had the ball and could have blitzed through otherwise. With two saurs out I was playing with mostly skinks and my offense ground to a halt because I was outstrengthed everywhere the Krox wasn't, and the elf blitzers kept walking through my skink screens. Eventually he got the ball and I just gradually got pushed back until I couldn't mount a decent defense any more. Nearly made a huge play on turn 8 when I got the ball away from him and picked it up and managed to make three dodges and two going for its to bring it to a skink within scoring distance, but flubbed the hand-off. Ended up with a dead skink, a miss next game skink, and a grand total of 11 SPP including the MVP which went to a 0 SPP skink. Nobody leveled up and my new TV was 880. I decided to remake the team. However The General was playing with default names and I had a good name gimmick so I think I pulled out a moral victory here. The first roll of the first game with this team was a double skulls, so I basically should have known I needed to delete them. Oh and this is the (new) roster: 1xKrox 4xSaurs 6xSkink 2xreroll 1xApoth Somehow I didn't have an apothecary for the last game. Comments? Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Jan 18, 2013 |
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Jan 18, 2013 04:13
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Against my better judgement I gave cyanide more money. Pleasantly surprised in that it actually runs on my computer unlike other Cyanide games. I'm looking forward to being fouled to death by some goons.
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Jan 18, 2013 04:31
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Arglebargle III posted:Somehow I didn't have an apothecary for the last game. Comments? I'm not exactly experienced with lizards but I'd expect that you would get much better mileage out of a more typical starting roster with 6 sauruses. The krox is a great big guy but is still unreliable and as you've seen the team kind of lives and dies on how much strength it can muster in order to defend the fragile skinks. It's also pretty normal to skip an apo on your starting roster, especially if you end up with some spare cash; a 6 saurus 5 skink 3rr lineup leaves you with 40k so you're guaranteed to be able to purchase an apo before your second game.
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Jan 18, 2013 09:55
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I need to get back into SA FUMBBL.. my gobbo game was hilarious.. You can't really control how gobbos play, but that just makes it more fun as it turns into a 16 turn car wreck, complete with spinny ball and chains, pogo sticks, and chainsaws. (oh.. and bombs. Can't forget the bombs)
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Jan 18, 2013 10:49
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Personal_Nirvana posted:Welp, guess balance is out of the equation then. BloodBowl is one of the more well balanced games out there. Elf and other week teams are going to take more death and damage, it's unavoidable, but will win more than their fair share of games. There are tricks to playing a high AG team, which include trying to make sure none of your players are in contact with standing opponents at the end of your turn, giving your opponent one blitz each turn. That's the big one for keeping your players alive, and stifling a bashing team's offence, too, as they get to move one space before hitting your line of elves. There are some teams that are deliberately week, Halflings being the best example, but those are there for laughs. The elf teams are seriously powerful if you play them correctly.
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Jan 18, 2013 11:02
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Funso Banjo posted:That's the big one for keeping your players alive, and stifling a bashing team's offence, too, as they get to move one space before hitting your line of elves. The beauty of elf screens is that you're forcing the other player to put his players into contact with yours if they want to advance, which means they're giving up free blocks. Most of the time they're going to outstrength you and all you can do is dodge back out, but if they get careless you can knock them flat on their rear end.
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Jan 18, 2013 16:16
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 Cyanide broke something, game results are no longer saved.I was lucky enough to have Forums_Terrorist graciously offer to play his nurgle team against me for my second game, won 3-0 and even managed a "who cares" play where I picked up the ball with a saurus and handed it off to another saurus for a touchdown. And killed a guy with another saur. I still have 0 SPP on everyone.
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Jan 18, 2013 17:02
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In other news, everyone who said that Nurgle were a good alternative to dwarves were wrong, and I suggest those people consider bleach as a flavourful alternative to water.
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Jan 18, 2013 17:10
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RabidWeasel posted:I'm not exactly experienced with lizards but I'd expect that you would get much better mileage out of a more typical starting roster with 6 sauruses. The krox is a great big guy but is still unreliable and as you've seen the team kind of lives and dies on how much strength it can muster in order to defend the fragile skinks. It's also pretty normal to skip an apo on your starting roster, especially if you end up with some spare cash; a 6 saurus 5 skink 3rr lineup leaves you with 40k so you're guaranteed to be able to purchase an apo before your second game. This sounds like the best way to go, big guys are just failure waiting to happen. They are going to fail around 3 times per game if used perfectly and while necessary on a team like lizards they should normally not be taken in preference to a player as amazing as a saurus. I can't really think of any roster that would start with a big guy, except you know, ogres...
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Jan 18, 2013 17:56
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They're handy on Skaven since the Rogre lets you spare a lino for punching a hole in the other team's line to give your gunners room to do their thing. Asides from that, I dunno, stunty teams?
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Jan 18, 2013 17:58
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Forums Terrorist posted:In other news, everyone who said that Nurgle were a good alternative to dwarves were wrong, and I suggest those people consider bleach as a flavourful alternative to water. Well, they actually are, but for a beginner certainly a much higher hill to climb.
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Jan 18, 2013 17:59
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Forums Terrorist posted:They're handy on Skaven since the Rogre lets you spare a lino for punching a hole in the other team's line to give your gunners room to do their thing. Asides from that, I dunno, stunty teams? Rat ogres are not really all that great. They start with frenzy but no block, so if your opponent is awake he'll set them up to frenzy into -2dbs. They have bad armor for a big guy, so they get injured too quickly. Once they're on the ground, with wild animal you need to blitz to have a 5/6 chance of them getting up, which usually means you're not blitzing somewhere useful with your real blitzers. Once they get some skills, they can be nice, and the tail is nice for tying down dodgy linemen like elves, but skaven work fine without a rogre. You can afford a couple spare linerats to fill in for the inevitable casualties and keep you up in numbers in the second half, instead.
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Jan 18, 2013 22:26
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Human Ogres are also a good initial investment, otherwise Humans get knocked around a lot more early on. Undead Mummies too, but with no real negatrait they almost don't count for this discussion. But yeah, generally I would not take the Big Guy on a team to start.
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Jan 18, 2013 22:40
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Washout posted:Yeah seconded, ignore doubles on a ghouls first skill and take block instead. Then either sidestep or sure hands. Ghouls might be one of those that you ignore all doubles on actually. Only if you don't like having fun. Accurate, or pass depending on what kind of odds you prefer, is an excellent skill because you can set up a couple ghouls as your primary ball carriers without worrying about how to get them the ball. Guard is also a good choice because once you get to level three (which is incredibly close for that ghoul) you finish off blodge, and your fragile ghoul isn't quite as fragile when it only has a 1/6 change per die roll of going down. Obviously it's a little bit more of a problem once you start running into higher TVs when tackle starts showing up on a lot of players, but ghouls were made to be broken, don't be boring and skip out on the chance to do cool things. Alternatively, you could give it mighty blow and hope to make it a murder machine 
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Jan 18, 2013 23:11
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Forums Terrorist posted:In other news, everyone who said that Nurgle were a good alternative to dwarves were wrong, and I suggest those people consider bleach as a flavourful alternative to water. Norse are the more fun alternative to Dwarves. They break a bit more easily when punched back, but they've got more mobility, they can dodge better when needed, and they aren't as limited as to who can handle the ball in a pinch.
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Jan 18, 2013 23:27
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The Puppy alone makes them worth it.
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Jan 18, 2013 23:31
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In fact I'd go so far as to say never play Nurgle ever. I beat Caralad just now with Goblins, and I'm TERRIBLE.
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Jan 19, 2013 00:02
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Forums Terrorist posted:In fact I'd go so far as to say never play Nurgle ever. I beat Caralad just now with Goblins, and I'm TERRIBLE. Nurgle are an incredible low tv min/max team and play similiar to Chaos at mid TV. I've never seen a really well developed high tv nurgle team but I imagine it would play well as long as you're able to protect the pestigors.
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Jan 19, 2013 00:17
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