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You guys are thinking too hard about it. It was just Dredd being a softy because he liked Anderson.
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Jan 21, 2013 08:25
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Tripwyre posted:She says that it is when questioned as to why she lets the tech guy go. "I already failed when..." It's implicit that he decides otherwise in the end, but she does explicitly refer to the lawgiver as her primary weapon. Because Dredd makes the call on it in the end, and it's fairly obvious that he's chosen to interpret the "Primary weapon" as her mind. Which it is.
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Jan 21, 2013 08:28
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Vagabundo posted:Because Dredd makes the call on it in the end, and it's fairly obvious that he's chosen to interpret the "Primary weapon" as her mind. Which it is. Of course, I'm not saying otherwise. But Anderson has gone through the Academy, and I don't feel I'm being overly presumptuous in guessing that she would be taught there that Lawgiver is her primary weapon (in comparison to the grenades they carry, etc.). It seems like something she would be taught rather than something she would assume, given that her skills are unprecedented. Dredd makes a judgment call in the end of course (no pun intended), and he is correct to do so, but there's no question when they head out to start the day that when he says "primary weapon" he is referring to the Lawgiver. Anyway, this is enough words about something that doesn't really matter.
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Jan 21, 2013 08:44
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Tripwyre posted:Dredd makes a judgment call in the end of course (no pun intended), and he is correct to do so, but there's no question when they head out to start the day that when he says "primary weapon" he is referring to the Lawgiver.
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Jan 21, 2013 09:52
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Tripwyre posted:Of course, I'm not saying otherwise. But Anderson has gone through the Academy, and I don't feel I'm being overly presumptuous in guessing that she would be taught there that Lawgiver is her primary weapon (in comparison to the grenades they carry, etc.). It seems like something she would be taught rather than something she would assume, given that her skills are unprecedented. Yes, when he says "primary weapon" at the start of the day he is of course talking about the gun, but by the end of the film he has seen that her main asset (and "primary weapon") is her mind which she maintains control of and is incredibly useful. Yes he likes her and sees that she is capable but a guy like Dredd would need a reason to contradict his earlier comments about failing, hence why it makes sense that he would adjust his meaning of the word.
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Jan 21, 2013 10:36
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Plus she kinda saved his life. That's got to score you some points.
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Jan 21, 2013 12:37
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NESguerilla posted:You guys are thinking too hard about it. It was just Dredd being a softy because he liked Anderson. Nah guys, I'm pretty sure it's this.
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Jan 21, 2013 13:32
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It's also incredibly important for Andersons character that she thinks she has failed her examination and continues to try to make things right anyway.
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Jan 21, 2013 14:08
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NESguerilla posted:You guys are thinking too hard about it. It was just Dredd being a softy because he liked Anderson. Well, in Mega City One they say - that Judge Dredd's small heart grew three sizes that day.
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Jan 21, 2013 14:52
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Dredd is the judge the city wants; Anderson is the judge the city needs.
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Jan 21, 2013 15:27
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CronnySockett posted:Dredd is the judge the city wants; Anderson is the judge the city needs. I actually kinda thought it was the other way around.
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Jan 21, 2013 15:55
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CronnySockett posted:Dredd is the judge the city wants; Anderson is the judge the city needs. Yeah what your average MegaCity dweller needs is for The Law to literally read their minds. That's what was missing from the Judge, Jury and Executioner trifecta. Absolute surveillance. This is what the movie is trying to communicate. "Let's see what you've got in there, perp. One month ago you crossed the street at a red light. Jaywalking. One week in the iso-cubes. Five years ago you dropped a piece of gum. Littering. Two months in the iso-cubes. Ten years ago you found a credit chip in the street and did not report the find. Theft. Two years in the iso-cubes. Twelve years ago, you bumped into an old woman, knocking her over and causing her to drop her bag of groceries. Violent assault and vandalism. Five years in the iso-cubes. And when you saw me coming, you tried to run away. Evasion of Justice. Ten years in the iso-cubes. And now you just thought about shooting me with my own gun. Intent to kill a Judge. Death."
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Jan 21, 2013 15:57
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Shanty posted:"Let's see what you've got in there, perp. One month ago you crossed the street at a red light. Jaywalking. One week in the iso-cubes. Five years ago you dropped a piece of gum. Littering. Two months in the iso-cubes. Ten years ago you found a credit chip in the street and did not report the find. Theft. Two years in the iso-cubes. Twelve years ago, you bumped into an old woman, knocking her over and causing her to drop her bag of groceries. Violent assault and vandalism. Five years in the iso-cubes. And when you saw me coming, you tried to run away. Evasion of Justice. Ten years in the iso-cubes. And now you just thought about shooting me with my own gun. Intent to kill a Judge. Death." I could utterly picture this as a real 2000AD storyline.
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Jan 21, 2013 16:00
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Dressed to Kill posted:Plus she kinda saved his life. That's got to score you some points. Not really. Not with Dredd.
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Jan 21, 2013 16:07
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Crappy Jack posted:I actually kinda thought it was the other way around. Yeah I kinda did too. Believe me I didnt put much thought into this beyond making fun of that silly Batman quote, but I figured Anderson would be better as she at least has a grasp that criminals exist mostly due to circumstance than anything else. EDIT: Also a question: early in the movie we see Ma-Ma's tech guy making little wire figurines. During the final confrontation after Anderson gets wounded we get a close-up shot of one of the figurines. I think this implies...something but I don't know what. Amy ideas, or am I overthinking it? Roman Reigns fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Jan 21, 2013 |
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Jan 21, 2013 16:38
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CronnySockett posted:Yeah I kinda did too. Believe me I didnt put much thought into this beyond making fun of that silly Batman quote, but I figured Anderson would be better as she at least has a grasp that criminals exist mostly due to circumstance than anything else. I don't think anyone knows what it means. It caught my attention too.
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Jan 21, 2013 18:34
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CronnySockett posted:Dredd is the judge the city wants; Anderson is the judge the city needs. Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A dark knight.  The Dark Knight(2008) by Christopher Nolan Only one thing fighting for order in the chaos - Judges.  Dredd(2012) by Pete Travis It's the only thing. A freebie for penismightier
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Jan 21, 2013 18:42
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It seemed like a bit of a nod to Blade Runner, but also it's one of the "clues" that humanize him. All of the bad guys in the movie are more or less portrayed "as Dredd sees them", but when Anderson is by herself (in fact, every scene where she's by herself) we are shown things that humanize the bad guys. It's one of the neat ways the movie explores the idea that fascist, un-compromising preconceptions about social and criminal problems are like blinders. Dredd sees most things as black and white issues, and that's the way they are shown to the audience when Dredd is on the screen. When Anderson is by herself, things aren't shown as so black and white. The film is tempting us to buy into Dredd's fascism and brutality with conformation bias.
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Jan 21, 2013 18:43
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:Yes, when he says "primary weapon" at the start of the day he is of course talking about the gun, but by the end of the film he has seen that her main asset (and "primary weapon") is her mind which she maintains control of and is incredibly useful. Yes he likes her and sees that she is capable but a guy like Dredd would need a reason to contradict his earlier comments about failing, hence why it makes sense that he would adjust his meaning of the word.
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Jan 21, 2013 19:49
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Never thought I'd read the phrase "anal like a computer".
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Jan 21, 2013 19:51
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Baron Bifford posted:Or it could be that Dredd is not anal like a computer, and that even he is capable of bending the rules when there is a compelling reason to do so. Anderson can read minds, and her powers help him survive and prevail in a very dangerous situation that he didn't really anticipate. Also, she did recover her weapon on her own. No she didn't recover it, her gun got blown up. But yes I agree with your other point.
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Jan 21, 2013 19:51
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demolina posted:I could utterly picture this as a real 2000AD storyline.
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Jan 21, 2013 19:53
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It seems to me to be completely ambiguous - maybe Dredd decided to consider her mind-reading to be her primary weapon, maybe he just decided to break the rules in this case because he believed it was worth it. Personally I hope the former was the intent - isn't Dredd essentially supposed to be a pure tool of the law, and that's his fundamental character? Having him decide to ignore the rules in this case feels a bit like a ham-handed “we need to make the protagonist more likeable" thing. Or is he actually more morally fluid than I've heard?
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Jan 21, 2013 19:59
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Baron Bifford posted:Doesn't Mega-City One have statute of limitations? If only not to overwhelm the system with old crimes? The cubes themselves are the real bottleneck, but the Justice Department can always build new ones if the current ones get full. In fact, it would be one way to solve the unemployment problem; hire some people to build cubes, others as guards (they're technically Judges, but there's an Anderson story where someone disparages them as soft slackers who wouldn't last five minutes on the streets - ideal for privatisation, then  ) and everyone else a perp. Everybody's guilty of something in this system.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:01
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BreakAtmo posted:It seems to me to be completely ambiguous - maybe Dredd decided to consider her mind-reading to be her primary weapon, maybe he just decided to break the rules in this case because he believed it was worth it. Personally I hope the former was the intent - isn't Dredd essentially supposed to be a pure tool of the law, and that's his fundamental character? Having him decide to ignore the rules in this case feels a bit like a ham-handed “we need to make the protagonist more likeable" thing. Or is he actually more morally fluid than I've heard? He's a stickler for the letter of the law and raised since birth to serve the fascist police state that is Mega City One, but he's still human. In the comics he's broken or ignored the law a bunch of times over the years, when he feels it is necessary/right.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:03
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Baron Bifford posted:Doesn't Mega-City One have statute of limitations? If only not to overwhelm the system with old crimes? No, it does not. The system is already overwhelmed, letting people get away with things once they're caught would make it worse. BreakAtmo: Dredd is not morally fluid at all, but he is mentally flexible. On at least two occasions he's knowingly punished an innocent because he felt it was necessary to preserve the Law in a higher sense.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:05
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BreakAtmo posted:It seems to me to be completely ambiguous - maybe Dredd decided to consider her mind-reading to be her primary weapon, maybe he just decided to break the rules in this case because he believed it was worth it. Personally I hope the former was the intent - isn't Dredd essentially supposed to be a pure tool of the law, and that's his fundamental character? Having him decide to ignore the rules in this case feels a bit like a ham-handed “we need to make the protagonist more likeable" thing. Or is he actually more morally fluid than I've heard? He already ignored the rules when he decided to stun the kids instead of killing them.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:29
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blackguy32 posted:He already ignored the rules when he decided to stun the kids instead of killing them. Also, as he shows with the homeless junkie in the beginning, he's perfectly willing to give certain things priority over others, even if it means bending the rules a bit.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:33
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blackguy32 posted:He already ignored the rules when he decided to stun the kids instead of killing them. Juvenile sentence for threatening a judge is not death, the rules state that he CAN stun them
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Jan 21, 2013 20:44
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LtKenFrankenstein posted:Also, as he shows with the homeless junkie in the beginning, he's perfectly willing to give certain things priority over others, even if it means bending the rules a bit. Yeah, but that's a part of the rules too - it's not much different to how they went to Peach Trees rather than any one of the crimes that were occurring. Dredd says they can only respond to 6% of crimes, and some are worse than others. He was limited and had to spend his time effectively. There wasn't a similar limitation here - the law says Anderson failed if she lost her primary weapon. If that's her Lawgiver, she failed, and Dredd broke the rules.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:51
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I'm starting to think the best joke in the film is in how Anderson spares that one guy, because she sees that he was forced to do bad things and is therefore a victim. It shows how myopic she is - because which of the criminals wasn't forced into a lovely life of crime by their dire situation? But that one gesture nonetheless makes her instantly 'the good guy' to audiences, after killing/torturing her way through half the building.
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Jan 21, 2013 20:58
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The literal and most basic view of a film is always the correct and most rewarding one, after all. Everything about Anderson is showing that she's the new kind of Judge that the city needs. She doesn't beat the poo poo out of people for confessions, she just pulls it right out of their heads. She doesn't Kill, Arrest and Destroy everyone regardless of their crimes, she judges in all sense of the word, deciding her actions based not on the letter but the spirit of the law. She's diametrically opposed to Dredd who represents The Old Way. In the end, after seeing her in action, Dredd realizes this and realizes that the reason she failed the previous tests and such was because she isn't the kind of judge those tests exist for, she would need a whole new method of examination. One where the Law isn't an unchangeable brick to be hurled at someones head, one where morals can change depending on context and one where the primary tool of the justice department is the mind, not a box that shoots rockets or whatever. Just because Anderson doesn't realize that her Gun isn't her primary weapon, doesn't mean it isn't. Her Mind Powers save her skin a ton of times, and her quick thinking saves her a ton more. She barely shoots anyone and when she does, she usually uses her mind powers to pick out when and who to shoot. Dredd obviously means the Gun when he first says 'Don't lose your dude' but at the end when he's all staring off in the distance, that's when he realizes 'drat she didn't even need a gun to oh wait that wasn't her primary weapon at all its like a metaphor or some poo poo dang' Compare how they both deal with the other judges that arrive near the end Dredd sees another Morally Untouchable Representative Of THE LAW and treats them as such, almost getting killed because of it. Anderson sees a Person, Reads them, Judges Them, and moves on unhindered. I mean it's either that or her primary weapon is literally her gun and every reference to that is a one dimension simple and literal reference. Either or.
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Jan 21, 2013 21:05
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I'm starting to think the best joke in the film is in how Anderson spares that one guy, because she sees that he was forced to do bad things and is therefore a victim. Yes, even with Ma-Ma they go out of their way to show how she was a prostitute who was cut up by her pimp. It's easy to see Anderson as a rebel if you don't think about things too hard, but she wants to be a judge, she wants to uphold the system. She's been raised by the Justice Department just like Dredd was. I'm thinking about her line at the start where she talks about 'making a difference' in a block like Peach Trees. Well she sure did for all the innocent people that are dead because she chose the triple homicide rather than another crime elsewhere! I think people are really overstating the differences between Dredd and Anderson- they are different in style and personality but that's about it. Both are very effective police state law enforcers. Dredd would probably have been merciful to the tech guy as well if he knew what Anderson did.
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Jan 21, 2013 21:33
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Fatkraken posted:Juvenile sentence for threatening a judge is not death, the rules state that he CAN stun them Besides, reflexively pulling the trigger after being startled without really aiming at anything does not really constitute intent to kill. Evidently the law does discriminate in edge cases such as that, showing that it's not all death sentence all the time.
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Jan 21, 2013 21:37
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CronnySockett posted:EDIT: Also a question: early in the movie we see Ma-Ma's tech guy making little wire figurines. During the final confrontation after Anderson gets wounded we get a close-up shot of one of the figurines. It's a nod to Bladeunner; Camera-eyes Nerd is the real Peachtrees Kingpin, he just has a sexbot replicant as a patsy so he has a chance to run when the Judges turn up.
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Jan 21, 2013 21:44
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Nemesis Of Moles posted:I mean it's either that or her primary weapon is literally her gun and every reference to that is a one dimension simple and literal reference. Either or. I don't know if this is aimed at me, but I don't disagree with this. I was disagreeing with someone who said "it is never explicitly stated that the Lawgiver is her primary weapon". It is, several times. It is implicit that this is not actually true however.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:03
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NoneMoreNegative posted:It's a nod to Bladeunner; Camera-eyes Nerd is the real Peachtrees Kingpin, he just has a sexbot replicant as a patsy so he has a chance to run when the Judges turn up. I chose to assume Ma-Ma was more that just a name to him, if you get my drift...
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Jan 21, 2013 23:14
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I think the greatest achievement of this movie is that Anderson is a sidekick that doesn't feel tacked on or superfluous and ends up being someone you really root for. I can't think of any other movie that features a really iconic main character that has managed that.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:20
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BreakAtmo posted:It seems to me to be completely ambiguous - maybe Dredd decided to consider her mind-reading to be her primary weapon, maybe he just decided to break the rules in this case because he believed it was worth it. Personally I hope the former was the intent - isn't Dredd essentially supposed to be a pure tool of the law, and that's his fundamental character? Having him decide to ignore the rules in this case feels a bit like a ham-handed “we need to make the protagonist more likeable" thing. Or is he actually more morally fluid than I've heard? Remember dredd is literally a Judge, judges get to decide how the law is interpreted. Law isnt applied immutably in real life.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:34
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Tripwyre posted:I don't know if this is aimed at me, but I don't disagree with this. I was disagreeing with someone who said "it is never explicitly stated that the Lawgiver is her primary weapon". It is, several times. It is implicit that this is not actually true however. Not at all. Not really aimed at anyone specific. I agree that basically whenever anyone actually says 'Primary Weapon' they are referring to the Lawgiver. There's probably something in that, actually.
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Jan 21, 2013 23:58
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