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CB_Tube_Knight posted:Do you have to be such a child all of the time? You cry when people bring up anything you don't like. You're not saying anything constructive or even an opinion about what I'm saying. I think you're wrong about who is the one embarrassing themselves. There was already a conversation several pages back, initiated by you, about what exactly literary fiction is and how you don't seem to have read anything outside of your pet genres aside from high school required reading. I don't think we really need to sum all that up again for you; you can feel free to page back and re-read it. You can read and enjoy whatever you want, and write whatever you want, but don't go around theorizing about the future of fiction or criticizing modern literature if you literally have not read 90% of what is considered good contemporary writing.
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Jan 22, 2013 21:58
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E1M1 posted:It's true. Literary fiction is a vast conspiracy of snooty professors telling their students that, no, they can't waste everyone's time with their dogshit space opera or elf story. I have a chip on my shoulder because my teachers made me write stories about sad dads and dead dogs when I wanted to write about the titanium pirates of Neo-Atlantis. Obviously the state of the medium is in decline and soon we will all wallow in lazily written fanfics, and I will smile and set alight my copy of "Best American Short Stories" and throw it onto literary fiction's funeral pyre
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Jan 22, 2013 22:01
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Is this it? Is the novel finally dead? One by one the genre writers come out from their caves. They shield their eyes from the sun. We're free, brothers. We are finally free.
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Jan 22, 2013 22:04
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Everybody read Elmore Leonard.
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Jan 22, 2013 22:05
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squeegee posted:There was already a conversation several pages back, initiated by you, about what exactly literary fiction is and how you don't seem to have read anything outside of your pet genres aside from high school required reading. I don't think we really need to sum all that up again for you; you can feel free to page back and re-read it. You can read and enjoy whatever you want, and write whatever you want, but don't go around theorizing about the future of fiction or criticizing modern literature if you literally have not read 90% of what is considered good contemporary writing. I don't remember saying anything about high school or not having read anything literary since then. In fact I said the opposite and I liked some of the things I read in high school like Of Mice and Men and The Great Gatsby. But thanks for proving the point that you're just making stuff up and don't actually remember what I said. E1M1 posted:It's true. Literary fiction is a vast conspiracy of snooty professors telling their students that, no, they can't waste everyone's time with their dogshit space opera or elf story. I have a chip on my shoulder because my teachers made me write stories about sad dads and dead dogs when I wanted to write about the titanium pirates of Neo-Atlantis. Obviously the state of the medium is in decline and soon we will all wallow in lazily written fanfics, and I will smile and set alight my copy of "Best American Short Stories" and throw it onto literary fiction's funeral pyre Obviously I've read some stuff on the subject and I tried to enroll in some creative writing classes and know the curriculum. In fact I was reading a blog about this the other day and one commenter addressed the same thing I said here: quote:Hi April! Let me throw a couple thoughts into this discussion.In the UK, the NAWE (National Associate of Writers in Education) includes in its *Creative Writing Benchmark Statement* that "a Creative Writing course [should] not uncritically privilege one or other genre or style of writing (e.g. ‘literary fiction’)" However, in the US, the AWP's (Association of Writers and Writing Programs) *Director's Handbook* insists that "students are required to produce a publishable literary work" I realize that you're mostly talking about marketing here, but I do think that the privileging of "literary" over "genre" (or to widen the scope a little, lets call it "commercial") starts in school--for a variety of reasons. Chad Harbach's piece in Slate last year addressed this issue quite well. http://www.slate.com/articles/... Two writers I know (who also teach creative writing) interested in this issue are Julianna Baggott and Benjamin Percy, who have plenty of literary cred but are interested in appealing to as wide an audience as possible. Ben talks about it here: http://fictionwritersreview.co.... Let me put this out there, too: What does it mean when writers like Alice Munro and Alice McDermott and Anne Tyler are marketed as "women's fiction?" I know I've had a tough time getting my male students to read books that present as "girly." One reason why many women writers try hard to stay within literary boundaries is because they are afraid of not being taken seriously. (Disclaimer: I believe it's troubling when we assume that just because a lot of women want to read a book, it must not be very good.) But I'm just making this up, it's not in the first comment with supporting links here on this web page: http://janefriedman.com/2012/01/16/literary-fiction-attention/
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Jan 22, 2013 22:15
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No one is arguing against the idea that most serious creative writing classes/student workshops discourage genre work. That is absolutely true and I've been in many a workshop where someone tries to pass obvious fanfiction off as an original work with the names switched around and it's just awkward for everyone. Also, no one is arguing that "literary" authors rarely make as much money or have as much popular success as genre authors. As a group, they never have, and most likely never will. This is not a new development. We're not going to suddenly see "less and less" literary fiction out there because you just noticed these basics facts.
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Jan 22, 2013 22:26
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There seems to have been a gradual split between genre and literary over the last few decades. If you want genre work that has literary aspersions, look to the 50s and back, when the concepts being worked were fairly new.
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Jan 22, 2013 22:34
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squeegee posted:No one is arguing against the idea that most serious creative writing classes/student workshops discourage genre work. That is absolutely true and I've been in many a workshop where someone tries to pass obvious fanfiction off as an original work with the names switched around and it's just awkward for everyone. I think you have the wrong idea about what I mean to be. My intention is to straddle the line. That's why I still read outside of genre fiction and enjoy it. And yes, while I think Fan Fiction can be done respectably I also think Fan Fiction should stay as Fan Fiction and not be adapted into an original story. I've never seen anyone try to do this switching the names thing with writing groups, but that sounds pretty stupid a thing to do. If I write some Sherlock or other Fan Fiction it's set in that world and it just won't work outside of there. That's what Fan Fiction is a homage or you just trying to play in a world you enjoy. It's not for you to sell later down the line with the numbers filed off. My issue with first person is probably confidence related and given that confidence is something I don't have much of to spare I am a little put off by trying right now to break from my writing to struggle through first person with this short story. There's nothing wrong with literary fiction though. I just find that I am picky about what I like of it. But that's to be said about anything. I don't excuse poor character crafting or dialogue simply because "This is genre." I was also told to read some books that were popular to see what made them tick. I tried reading Fifty Shades of Grey like three times now and I've either fallen asleep (once at work) or just been bored to tears. I am muddling my way through Hush Hush right now and I would describe the feeling as being felt up by strangers on a commuter train. It's just uncomfortable and it's like the poster child for rape culture. CB_Tube_Knight fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 22:39
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Martello posted:Everybody read Elmore Leonard. Got a copy of his complete Westerns coming my way, in fact. Can't find poo poo here in Froggyland. I'm as interested as can be in that at the moment.
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Jan 22, 2013 22:53
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The Brief Wondrous Life of Oscar Wao is worth a read. I just finished it and it's definitely not boring literary fiction with no action.
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Jan 22, 2013 22:58
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I think steampunk is a valid and interesting genrahahahahhahaha wow.
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Jan 22, 2013 23:00
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So what can we discuss regarding the skeletal construction of fiction? Not so much ideas as how you plot a story to ramp up interest and keep a reader interested independent of the plot points. Or prettymuch anything other than the genre v lit.
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Jan 22, 2013 23:03
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Erik Shawn-Bohner posted:I think steampunk is a valid and interesting genrahahahahhahaha Instead, it's "twee white people ride around in dirigibles drinking tea and wearing goggles". That's a good way to combine lit and genre: use the fact you're not writing about our earth to pull punches- to couch things people don't want to hear in a more accessible form. It's a pet peeve of mine. I loved The Difference Engine and I hate the fact that something so potentially interesting got co-opted by terrible internet people. 
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Jan 22, 2013 23:21
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Thanks again to everyone who contributed and gave me advice. Let me try again: Death draws nearer; ten thousand pounds of pressure await, to crush and entomb him in an endless night. Sean's hand finds, at last, a useful lever- the battery's priming pump. Context: dude's deep underwater, and his sub is in danger of imploding as he's about to hit something
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Jan 22, 2013 23:33
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I'd be interested in hearing how people deal with action scenes. How do you make it readable? Do you block it all out? I'm having trouble with the physical space of my action and making that action easy to follow. I suspect it make have something to do with 'simultaneous' versus 'sequential'. I'm about ten minutes away from using green plastic soldiers.
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Jan 22, 2013 23:37
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Molly Bloom posted:Got a copy of his complete Westerns coming my way, in fact. Can't find poo poo here in Froggyland. I'm as interested as can be in that at the moment. Funny, I'm working through that right now on my Kindle. The first three stories are great so far, but overall I prefer his crime novels. Probably because that's one of my favorite genres. Muffin and Bohner - you forget Arcanum.  Banana - you're asking us to fix your writing based on a single sentence. Please go to Fiction Farm to post a longer piece, or go to Thunderdome and compete. You'll get great feedback either way.
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Jan 22, 2013 23:39
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Martello posted:Banana - you're asking us to fix your writing based on a single sentence. Please go to Fiction Farm to post a longer piece, or go to Thunderdome and compete. You'll get great feedback either way. Okay, thank you, I'll head over there.
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Jan 22, 2013 23:46
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The Bananana posted:Thanks again to everyone who contributed and gave me advice. I'll bite, even though you've been directed to the Fiction Farm. It's better. I'm not a fan of anything remotely purple, though, so my red pen is still at hand. Now, definitely don't take me as gospel. But if I were to write the line, I'd simplify the gently caress out of it. 'Death draws nearer. Ten thousand pounds of pressure wait to entomb him in endless night. Sean's hand finds, at last, a lever- the battery's priming pump.' It's better, to my ear and eye, with varied sentence length and structure. If I was really writing this, I would probable cut out the 'endless night' or maybe 'Death draws nearer'. Or both. But that's me, not you.
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Jan 22, 2013 23:59
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Molly Bloom posted:I'd be interested in hearing how people deal with action scenes. How do you make it readable? Do you block it all out? Post a sample and we'll look it over. It sounds like you're trying to describe two different scenes happening at the same time. I'd probably describe them in short sequential bursts so one part reaches a resting or pausing point, then throw in a "Jack looked over and saw..." if that next part is happening right after, or if it's happening at the same time, maybe use "Meanwhile...", "Simultaneously...", "At the same time..." or something along those lines to signify that you're transitioning from one fight to another. To keep the action readable, try and make the sentences short and efficient. Shorter sentences give the illusion of things happening faster. You shouldn't describe action in the middle of a scene, but try and describe the area a little before the action starts. This might get trickier if your character bursts into a new room and then a fight immediately happens. I've got a sample, which may or may not be very good. It's only one fight, not two happening at once, though. quote:One of the guards came closer, jabbing at the bushes with the rifle’s muzzle. Clearly inexperienced, and not too bright. The other guard was smart enough to stand back, but not smart enough to tell his colleague. If I wanted to add a second fight at the same time there, I might re-write it something like this. But again, I've got a lot to learn about writing action scenes as well. quote:One of the guards came closer, jabbing at the bushes with the rifle’s muzzle. Clearly inexperienced, and not too bright. The other guard was smart enough to stand back, but not smart enough to tell his colleagues. EDIT: Oops, I completely forgot about the third guard after his knee got kicked out. That's what I get for writing an example up in five minutes. So uh... bad example. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 01:54
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:I've got a sample, which may or may not be very good. It's only one fight, not two happening at once, though. I know this isn't Fiction Farm, but would you mind if I critiqued this a little later? If you (or others) prefer I can do it over PM.
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Jan 23, 2013 02:04
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DivisionPost posted:I know this isn't Fiction Farm, but would you mind if I critiqued this a little later? If you (or others) prefer I can do it over PM. Go ahead, you can critique it wherever. In this thread might be better since I was offering it as an example, so if it's terrible, it'd be more helpful for Molly. (Honestly, that two-fight version probably isn't that good because I wrote it up in only three minutes.)
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Jan 23, 2013 02:10
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Molly Bloom posted:I'd be interested in hearing how people deal with action scenes. How do you make it readable? Do you block it all out? Just move your combatants through the space and tell a story as you do it. Think of it cinematically. What is the camera watching? Brief disorienting cuts, moments of slow detailed motion, focussing on an image for a moment, propulsion by clipped words. Here's a passage from one of my thunderdome pieces: quote:Jack had thrown a brick through my window first. Come through after it, knife in hand. I’d gripped his wrist, slammed the hand into the wall. Taken his headbutt, fallen over. He’d kicked me twice, three times. I remember the sound of his boot hitting me, the sound of a rib cracking. I remember grabbing the knife from the floor, stabbing up. His hot blood washing off in the shower afterwards, spiraling down the plughole. This is clipped and brutal to give the idea of flashes of memory and instinctive action, but there's still a progression. For a more elaborate style, but still making the action clear: quote:I saw her eyes flicker to the side and I hurled my cup of tea at her face, pushing my chair back and over as I did. There was a subdued 'thwip' as a needle passed over me and buried itself in the wall, followed by a crash that knocked the wind out of me and probably cracked a couple of ribs as I hit the floor hard. I pulled my bony knees up to my chest and shoved the table with all my strength. It slammed Evangeline into the wall behind her and her handbag fell to the floor. Here I was trying for a smart combatant who's planned out his actions beforehand, so longer sentences, noticing all the detail. As an exercise, pick a good fight in a film and write it out. sebmojo fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 02:41
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The Bananana posted:Death draws nearer; ten thousand pounds of pressure await, to crush and entomb him in an endless night. Sean's hand finds, at last, a useful lever- the battery's priming pump. I think you're just using too many commas. I tend to do the same thing and when I write stuff I often find myself having to go back and remove a bunch of them. Death draws nearer. Ten-thousand pounds of pressure wait to crush and entomb him in an endless night. Sean's hand finds a useful lever at last — the battery's priming pump.
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Jan 23, 2013 02:57
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Adeptus posted:Isn't Snow Crash in third person? Or am I mis-remembering? Wait, you're right, poo poo. Everyone just stop listening to me now.
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Jan 23, 2013 04:32
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Down With People posted:Wait, you're right, poo poo. Everyone just stop listening to me now. You wily bastard! You tricked me. I still want to read this book though, so it's cool.
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Jan 23, 2013 08:26
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Molly Bloom posted:Chillmatic I will never stop recommending Michael Chabon's 'Yiddish Policemen's Union'. I saw this post, went 'hey I remember hearing about that, it sounded interesting' and fifteen seconds later I have a copy of it in my hands. Kindles are absolutely the best.
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Jan 23, 2013 08:48
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CB_Tube_Knight posted:Yeah the drunk driving thing is really a bad example. I think that if I had a glass of wine and drove, I could easily do so, I could easily pass any test the cops gave me and the like. And I am a bit of a lightweight. I think you have an entirely incorrect idea of Literature. I'm not saying that you are a terrible person, but you're a terrible student of fiction. Literature is way more about interpretation and mimesis than content. Literature and genre fiction can share the same exact content. There exists no secret intrinsic feature that separates the two. The audience separates them. It divides them into a false dichotomy and separates things from each other when there isn't any need to. You can find examples of scholarly studied Literature in every single genre, and you can trace the beginning of all of them to literature also. They aren't as separate as your posts seem to state they are. If everyone in CC wrote a one paragraph post on what literature is, we'd have a thread full of people, none of whom would agree with any other person on each part of their definition. Also if you get bored THAT easy...I don't think you are in the right art. Chillmatic, you are just as guilty. If you think that literature and "genre fiction" are so separated by the quality of the writing, you haven't read enough literature. Try to remember this. For every example of something you have from a certain time period that you consider to be literary, 1000 books were written and printed that no one bothered to preserve because the quality wasn't good enough. Today, you are taking on the job that belongs to fate, or god, or time or whatever the gently caress you want to call it. The difference between this is like gold panning. Literature is the result of work people have already done, you already have the gold in that case. Look at today's fiction and you are faced with softly sifting though a thousand pans of dirt just to find a few valuable specs. Mrfreezewarning fucked around with this message at 09:51 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 09:40
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Mr.Drf posted:I think you have an entirely incorrect idea of Literature. I'm not saying that you are a terrible person, but you're a terrible student of fiction. Literature is way more about interpretation and mimesis than content. Literature and genre fiction can share the same exact content. There exists no secret intrinsic feature that separates the two. The audience separates them. It divides them into a false dichotomy and separates things from each other when there isn't any need to. What you quoted and what you're saying don't make any sense.
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Jan 23, 2013 09:45
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CB_Tube_Knight posted:What you quoted and what you're saying don't make any sense.
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Jan 23, 2013 09:49
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Mr.Drf posted:I was replying to your earlier statements, not your sissy-rear end hand wringing about trigger warnings. Sounds like you're here to stir up poo poo that everyone else is tired of. You're welcome to PM me so I can ignore you there, though. If you want to dispute definitions I'd say you take it up with Websters or Wikipedia.
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Jan 23, 2013 09:55
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CB_Tube_Knight posted:Sounds like you're here to stir up poo poo that everyone else is tired of. You're welcome to PM me so I can ignore you there, though. If you want to dispute definitions I'd say you take it up with Websters or Wikipedia. Nope. No interest in discussing it further. I was just catching up with the last two pages and wanted to put my two cents in the discussion.
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Jan 23, 2013 09:56
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FYTc55nGEI
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Jan 23, 2013 09:59
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sebmojo posted:
I'll give this a try once I dig out a good film for it-we've been on an arty kick (except for Django, but that's definitely not what I want). I may post something up in the Farm myself, but it's with a friend at the moment. I tore the guts out of one of his things last week, so he'll be brutal.
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Jan 23, 2013 12:07
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Some posts earlier in the thread led me to finally watch the movie Adaptation and then I was pointed towards the Robert McKee story seminars. Weighing the possibility of attending it myself sometime aside, I'm looking at getting his book because it seems to be pretty universal stuff that can be applied to fiction as well, and I can 'eat around' the stuff specifically pertaining to the visual aspect. Anyone else read it? e: I'm dumb, first review quote: quote:“ I recommend this book for anyone that wants to write compelling stories, whether you want to be screenwriter, playwright or novelist. ” So consider this post a recommendation instead! FauxCyclops fucked around with this message at 12:43 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 12:40
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Please everyone shut up about "literary" fiction vs "genre" fiction, forever. Thanks in advance.
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Jan 23, 2013 13:04
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FauxCyclops posted:Some posts earlier in the thread led me to finally watch the movie Adaptation and then I was pointed towards the Robert McKee story seminars. Weighing the possibility of attending it myself sometime aside, I'm looking at getting his book because it seems to be pretty universal stuff that can be applied to fiction as well, and I can 'eat around' the stuff specifically pertaining to the visual aspect. Anyone else read it? If you watched Adaptation and you got the urge to adopt McKee's lessons on writing then we were watching two very very different movies. Considering that the movie in of itself is a commentary on the kind of movies produced through McKee's methods and it was definitely not a flattering depiction. (By god, McKee even becomes a Deus Ex Machina old man halfway through the movie as he's berating the main character not to include one in the script of the movie you're watching!) I'm on the opposite end though. Don't buy books like this and use them to learn how to write. You have to be far along in your growth as a writer before these kinds of craft books will really do you any good. Especially "paint by the numbers" books that present a railroad of ideas that you just have to follow and produce your book. You're better off spending your time consuming as much fiction as you can. Although, they're not all bad. On Writing by Stephen King is a rare one in that it's truly more about the art of writing and being a professional writer than some "formula for success!" writing guide. For those who have not seen the movie though I would definitely recommend though because it's a movie about flowers that just happens to be about writing in general. More specifically it deals with how hard it is to adapt a book to screen and ends up being more about that than anything else. It's a weird movie, but it's a brilliantly weird one.
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Jan 23, 2013 17:12
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HiddenGecko posted:I'm on the opposite end though. Don't buy books like this and use them to learn how to write. You have to be far along in your growth as a writer before these kinds of craft books will really do you any good. Especially "paint by the numbers" books that present a railroad of ideas that you just have to follow and produce your book. You're better off spending your time consuming as much fiction as you can. Although, they're not all bad. On Writing by Stephen King is a rare one in that it's truly more about the art of writing and being a professional writer than some "formula for success!" writing guide. So basically, something like this (Building Great Sentences) wouldn't be worth getting either, compared to just reading more?
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Jan 23, 2013 17:31
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:So basically, something like this (Building Great Sentences) wouldn't be worth getting either, compared to just reading more? After reading through its description it seems like it's a university level course on DVD. And it seems to focus on a fairly wide range of topics with a focus on sentence structure. I'd actually consider this one of the good ones since this guy's philosophy is pretty alright: Professor Landon posted:Building Great Sentences stems from Professor Landon's passion for a sentence-based approach to writing, commonly overshadowed by more technical, theory-based approaches that ignore the pleasures of reading and writing. This one does fall into what I was talking about though because at the point where a master class on sentences becomes useful is in line editing and wordsmithing(wordsmithing is where you reorder the sentence and change words without changing the meaning of the sentence in an effort to increase clarity.). And the class assumes you already have a good handle on sentences before coming in. Someone whose just starting out wouldn't get too much out of this class and may find themselves stifled because they'll assume this is the "right way" to construct sentences. In my opinion. HiddenGecko fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 17:44
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Mr.Drf posted:Chillmatic, you are just as guilty. If you think that literature and "genre fiction" are so separated by the quality of the writing, you haven't read enough literature. Try to remember this. For every example of something you have from a certain time period that you consider to be literary, 1000 books were written and printed that no one bothered to preserve because the quality wasn't good enough. Today, you are taking on the job that belongs to fate, or god, or time or whatever the gently caress you want to call it. The difference between this is like gold panning. Literature is the result of work people have already done, you already have the gold in that case. Look at today's fiction and you are faced with softly sifting though a thousand pans of dirt just to find a few valuable specs. Alright Captain Aristotle, I'm sure we're all truly grateful for your clumsy attempt at saying lots of words that actually don't mean anything and took what I said wildly out of context-- but you'll notice that I put "genre" and "literary" in quotes. Everyone already knows these are nebulous concepts with overlap and that there are good and bad examples of each type. If you could just unshart your jorts for a second, you'd be able to see that my primary concern was a disconnect between the type and scope of stories vs. the consensus regarding quality or lack thereof. I chose the words I used because they're the easiest way to make my point; but hey, don't let me keep you from being a pedantic gay baby.
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Jan 23, 2013 18:24
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Go ahead, you can critique it wherever. In this thread might be better since I was offering it as an example, so if it's terrible, it'd be more helpful for Molly. (Honestly, that two-fight version probably isn't that good because I wrote it up in only three minutes.) Okay, then here's one schmuck's opinion. I put "here's what I'd do" in spoiler tags to give you a chance to find your own solution (since I know people usually don't appreciate rewrites-as-critiques) (for good reason) (sorry, I kind of suck at critiques). quote:One of the guards came closer, jabbing at the bushes with the rifle’s muzzle. Clearly inexperienced, and not too bright. The other guard was smart enough to stand back, but not smart enough to tell his colleague (Tell him what?). You could definitely condense those last three paragraphs into one. Also, if you'll allow me to break off from the discussion of action scenes, I'd like to direct your attention to another matter: multi-sentence dialogue tends to read better if you stick the attribution mid-dialogue. So instead of: quote:"Wait. Please don't hurt me!" Leara said, filling her voice with fear. You can do: quote:"Wait," Leara said, filling her voice with fear. "Please don't hurt me!" A couple of sticking points to this, though: Firstly, if you're sticking the attribution at the end of a dialogue sentence, then the attribution ends with a sentence as seen above (and the dialogue itself ends with a comma and not a period, to flow into the attribution). However, if it's stuck in the MIDDLE of a sentence, then the attribution ends with a comma. For example, let's say you were going to use that piece of internal dialogue as a kiss-off line like I suggested. So the dialogue would be: "How chivalrous - and foolish." The way to attribute that would be: quote:"How chivalrous," Leara said, "and foolish." Also, like many rules of writing, this one can be bent or broken depending on how you want the story to be read. Since an attribution implies a pause, you may want to hold off on them if you want the reader to imagine your character machine gunning his or her words. Or you might want to show the character doing an extended action mid-dialogue. I'll show an example from my own work: quote:"Don't be too impressed." Molly reached up for a bottle of tequila on the highest shelf. "My Dad said he was fine with it," she strained, "so long as I don't drive or throw up." She snagged the bottle and set it on the bar. It doesn't follow the typical attribution format, but you (hopefully) know who's speaking, and to me it flows a little better compared to, say: quote:"Don't be too impressed," strained Molly as she reached up for a bottle of tequila on the highest shelf. "My Dad said he was fine with it, so long as I don't drive or throw up." She snagged the bottle and set it on the bar. I don't think anything is WRONG with those sentences per se, but you'll notice that each example, while showing the same action, drastically changes the pacing of that action. I simply prefer the pacing of the first. However, the point is that you can give yourself such options if you know how to bend the rules of attribution. That's it, hope you didn't mind the sidetrack. DivisionPost fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 19:23
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