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I submitted my petition with $200. They explained before I did where all the money went, and that it was $50 a year after that. The $200 broke down to one years dues, a payment to the state for joining and to put into the Masonic Retirement home fund, and the costs associated with the degrees. Hopefully they are sustainable at that cost, the local Shriners' building got sold, torn down and made into a parking lot recently, which is sad considering we have a Shriners' Burn Hospital here, but they moved their operations in with the Scottish Rite and a few lodges at our downtown Masonic center.
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Jan 21, 2013 10:33
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Southern Ontario goon here, but when I inquired I was told; -$200 to join to cover all degree work and previously mentioned costs. -$79/year to cover dues. Requirements for joining being two MM signing your application and an in-home interview with three masons. No police checks or anything like that though. 
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Jan 21, 2013 18:25
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Which town? My mother lodge is in Bellingham.
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Jan 21, 2013 21:20
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E:nevermind
Sockington fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 21, 2013 21:57
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:Which town? My mother lodge is in Bellingham. Vancouver. WA Lodge #4
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Jan 21, 2013 22:51
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I emailed the NJ Grand lodge but I'm not gonna be in state for another two weeks. Let's see where this goes. If I end up leaving after the fact are they going to be pissed off or is it not really a big deal?
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Jan 21, 2013 23:36
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Wizard of Smart posted:The number I was quoted seemed kind of steep and in fact may be my biggest barrier to joining right away. Dues will vary from lodge to lodge as only a portion of that goes to the Grand Lodge. I don't recall exactly how much my petition fee was, but as I recall it was a dues payment for one year plus some small amount on top of that. I think it was around $150 or so. The subsequent degrees are like $50 each, so maybe that figure is a total amount to petition and get the three degrees rather than an up-front fee. If it's too much for you to cover even spread out over a year or longer, then check out some other lodges near you. There's three in Vancouver proper, as well as ones in Washougal, Amboy and Battle Ground. One of the other ones may well have more reasonable fees, and you might even find a group of guys that you mesh with better.
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Jan 22, 2013 01:51
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I recently moved to Philadelphia and am looking to get back into the Craft. My dues are up to date, but I haven't been active for a couple of years. Are there any Philly goons who can recommend a lodge?
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Jan 22, 2013 01:51
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Our degree fees are $75/75/125, with no yearly dues until you're Raised. After that it's $175/year (recently up from $125). I got my Endowed Membership for $900, right before a price increase.
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Jan 22, 2013 02:25
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Will Rogers #53 Claremore, OK here. I'm 24 and I was made an EA in July of 2011, and raised a master three months later. I paid $175 with my petition for entry, which again is supposed to cover the $50 membership dues for the remainder of the year, some to the state grand lodge, some to the retirement fund, and the cost of the materials involved in the degrees. These include a lambskin or white-leather apron which is to be buried with me or passed through my family as an heirloom. Also, upon being raised as a master mason I received a really nice Masonic King James Bible with beautiful pictures, annotations, and gold-edged pages. Honestly I'd expect to pay $175 for the bible alone, which I really appreciate despite not being a Christian myself, but anyway I'm fairly sure my lodge takes a financial loss when it confers a degree.
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Jan 22, 2013 06:10
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My initiation fee was $250, and that covered 1st years dues, background check, apron, etc. Current dues are $85 for my home lodge, and $50 for my home away from home lodge.Scottish Rite is another $110 per year. I've heard of some lodges being significantly higher than that up north, but generally, N.C. lodges are cheap as far as I can tell.
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Jan 22, 2013 11:23
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voodoobadger posted:I recently moved to Philadelphia and am looking to get back into the Craft. My dues are up to date, but I haven't been active for a couple of years. I've enjoyed Charity Lodge (#190) in Jeffersonville, but that's a good 35 mins away from you in Philly. (It's near KOP) PM me if you want a contact anyway, at least one of the brothers in my lodge will be able to point you in the right direction. I'm about to move to Tx so won't really be much help. Also- since you're in Philly, make sure the get the grand lodge tour. That place is AMAZING.
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Jan 23, 2013 00:15
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Hi there. On a tour of the George Washington Masonic Temple in Alexandria VA a friend and I were wandering around. Anyway, there was this big meeting hall with a hallway alongside it and the hallway had these small metal plates set in the wall which you could swing open to spy on the people in the meeting hall and at the end there were these stairs that led up to a small windowless room that had metal cabinets in it, one of which was clearly marked JEW ROBES. It was full of bright red robes. So I guess my question is what's up with the JEW ROBES?
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Jan 23, 2013 02:32
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It's time for me to pony up another $312 for my annual dues. But the sting to my wallet will be lessened by the fact that I have found a good friend who has been interested in masonry and is going to come to our next table lodge! He's going to love it! 
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Jan 23, 2013 02:36
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cda posted:Hi there. On a tour of the George Washington Masonic Temple in Alexandria VA a friend and I were wandering around. Anyway, there was this big meeting hall with a hallway alongside it and the hallway had these small metal plates set in the wall which you could swing open to spy on the people in the meeting hall and at the end there were these stairs that led up to a small windowless room that had metal cabinets in it, one of which was clearly marked JEW ROBES. It was full of bright red robes. They're Kosher.
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Jan 23, 2013 02:45
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cda posted:So I guess my question is what's up with the JEW ROBES? I think they are used in the 34th Illuminati degree.
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Jan 23, 2013 03:04
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This is an interesting thread! Other than attending a wedding reception at an Elk's lodge (do Masons rent out spaces like that?) and seeing the Lion's eyeglass collection box at the grocery store, I've never really interacted with any such organizations. Can those of us who aren't obliged to Masonic rules bring up the secret stuff? Assuming we don't violate copyright on the monitors, there's no problem, right? Also, I'm curious how serious Masons take the brotherhood. For instance, suppose I'm running down the street looking back over my shoulder. A police siren sounds somewhere out of site. I happen to run past a Mason barbecue going on (go with me here) and give the distress gesture. Will I get some no-questions-asked help? Or would that not really fly? (Hey, you can never be too prepared!)
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Jan 23, 2013 03:53
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Very Nice Eraser posted:This is an interesting thread! Other than attending a wedding reception at an Elk's lodge (do Masons rent out spaces like that?) Yes yes yes! My mother lodge relies in rental income to stay afloat. Remember us when renting! Edit: quote:
If someone brings up stuff that's supposed to be a secret in person I tend to ignore it. If they are being a jerk about it then I will just leave. With the mason BBQ question: if I found a brother to be in a seriously bad situation and I was in a position to help him then I would. Lovable Luciferian fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 03:55
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Very Nice Eraser posted:This is an interesting thread! Other than attending a wedding reception at an Elk's lodge (do Masons rent out spaces like that?) and seeing the Lion's eyeglass collection box at the grocery store, I've never really interacted with any such organizations. Mr Brother in Law got married at a Masonic Hall. Though, that could have been because his Grandfather is a Mason. (I wasn't at the time). As for getting help, generally speaking yes. Murder and treason aside...
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Jan 23, 2013 04:21
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And the cop is more likely to be a Mason than the guy running away.
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Jan 23, 2013 04:23
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Snowy posted:And the cop is more likely to be a Mason than the guy running away. And to ward the  off Snowy means we don't let crooks into our Fraternity or if they slip by they don't last long.
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Jan 23, 2013 04:26
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Lovable Luciferian posted:And to ward the Which reminds me of another question: what's the procedure for shitcanning a brother? What can get you kicked out?
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Jan 23, 2013 05:03
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Very Nice Eraser posted:Which reminds me of another question: what's the procedure for shitcanning a brother? What can get you kicked out? Breaking your obligation. Doing something terrible or by your actions making not only yourself look bad but the entire fraternity. If you're a decent human being then you're probably in no real danger of getting canned... Except in Florida™
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Jan 23, 2013 05:19
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I would be willing to vote for the expulsion of a brother only after concluding he had commited what I would consider capital moral offenses. For example, if I learned that a brother had cheated on his wife, I would be reluctant to deny him membership, but if a brother beats the poo poo out of his wife, then I would make the motion myself to get rid of him. Think stealing a snickers bar vs. Bernie Madoff. I can be disappointed in a brother without passing a life-long judgement on him. Masons are human, humans are flawed, what makes you a mason is the endeavor to be better.
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Jan 23, 2013 05:43
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cda posted:So I guess my question is what's up with the JEW ROBES? In some of the degree work various historical personages belonging are represented, some of them being from the old testament and other sources of antiquity. Naturally some of these people are Jewish and in keeping with modesty, those portraying these folks do wear robes.  Very Nice Eraser posted:Can those of us who aren't obliged to Masonic rules bring up the secret stuff? Assuming we don't violate copyright on the monitors, there's no problem, right? Sure. None of can really respond, confirm or deny though. It'd be courteous at the least to spoiler them though, in consideration of those reading the thread who are interested in applying and would prefer it to be a surprise to them. Very Nice Eraser posted:Also, I'm curious how serious Masons take the brotherhood. For instance, suppose I'm running down the street looking back over my shoulder. A police siren sounds somewhere out of site. I happen to run past a Mason barbecue going on (go with me here) and give the distress gesture. Will I get some no-questions-asked help? Or would that not really fly? (Hey, you can never be too prepared!) I would never hesitate to help a brother; in the context of your hypothetical scenario, aid might best be rendered in seeing that he did not harm himself or others in resisting an arrest order from lawful authority, received a fair trial and if guilty, to aid in his reformation if he was sincerely repentant and open to such aid. This answer goes for me, today, in the US. Very Nice Eraser posted:Which reminds me of another question: what's the procedure for shitcanning a brother? What can get you kicked out? In general, trial by the members lodge, the procedural details of which vary by Jurisdiction. You can also be suspended for non-payment of dues, but that isn't quite the same as expulsion.
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Jan 23, 2013 05:54
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Very Nice Eraser posted:Can those of us who aren't obliged to Masonic rules bring up the secret stuff? Assuming we don't violate copyright on the monitors, there's no problem, right? Strictly speaking I don't think there's anything preventing that from happening in this thread, but we would not be able to respond to it or even acknowledge it and it would probably make a lot of us pretty uncomfortable, so please do not do this. quote:Also, I'm curious how serious Masons take the brotherhood. For instance, suppose I'm running down the street looking back over my shoulder. A police siren sounds somewhere out of site. I happen to run past a Mason barbecue going on (go with me here) and give the distress gesture. Will I get some no-questions-asked help? Or would that not really fly? (Hey, you can never be too prepared!) I can't speak for other brethren, but I would help anyone regardless of their being a Mason or not. It would be pretty underhanded and dishonest to represent yourself as a Mason to try to solicit help from other Masons, and the sorts of brothers who would go out of their way to help you are usually the sorts that would help you whether you represented yourself as a Mason or not.
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Jan 23, 2013 06:37
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Snowy posted:It's time for me to pony up another $312 for my annual dues. drat man, how swank is your lodge? We pay $50 per year, and even going up to $100 will raise hell. In other news, I got elected Junior Steward last week, and I finally learned to tie a bow tie today!  Edit: In response to the old-white-men stereotype, this years officers consist of Asian, Hispanic, Italian, Persian, and Greeks. The oldest is probably in his mid-40's, and most are in their mid-20 to early 30's. Edit 2: American Masons take an oath to obey the Constitution. If a Brother were in trouble with the law, I'd advise him to go peacefully, keep his mouth shut, and offer to find a lawyer and notify his family and friends on his behalf. INTJ Mastermind fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 07:45
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Very Nice Eraser posted:
Distress Gesture? That's when you fire off a smoke grenade, right? That way the light from your masonic ring creates a set of square and compasses in the clouds? Masons are asked when in times of trouble who do you trust? And the answer is, a really good firm of Jewish lawyers we keep on retainer. Hence the Jew Robes the other poster mentioned.
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Jan 23, 2013 08:10
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Very Nice Eraser posted:Can those of us who aren't obliged to Masonic rules bring up the secret stuff? Assuming we don't violate copyright on the monitors, there's no problem, right? As a person on the path to joining the masons I'd ask you to please not do this. I want things to be a surprise for me and this thread is where I go to feel comfortable talking about it on the internet without worry of spoiling it. If you're determined I guess you could start a Masonic spoilers thread or something. But again, please not here.
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Jan 23, 2013 08:43
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Wizard of Smart posted:As a person on the path to joining the masons I'd ask you to please not do this. I want things to be a surprise for me and this thread is where I go to feel comfortable talking about it on the internet without worry of spoiling it. Gotcha. I don't want to spoil this thread and the information is just a Google away. But I do have some questions regarding the spiritual overtones of the rituals. To be vague, how do those Masons whose religious beliefs don't include an afterlife or resurrection deal with the relevant rituals? On a different subject, earlier in this thread a few people posted that no man has the authority to change the underpinnings of Masonic tradition: men only, no atheists, etc. That argument makes sense in religion because there's typically a belief in a supernatural power that establishes the rules of the universe, but how does that work in the lodge? In other words, since the traditions aren't backed by fear of spiritual repercussions, do you foresee a day when they'll adjust to appease modern sentiments on equality? (I hope I'm not coming across as a dick with these questions. This is a really interesting thread, particularly because unlike "Ask me about my religion", posters in this thread don't base their adherence on faith. It's not "turtles all the way down" - each brother has a real, personal reason to choose to be a member.)
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Jan 23, 2013 15:53
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Very Nice Eraser posted:On a different subject, earlier in this thread a few people posted that no man has the authority to change the underpinnings of Masonic tradition: men only, no atheists, etc. That argument makes sense in religion because there's typically a belief in a supernatural power that establishes the rules of the universe, but how does that work in the lodge? In other words, since the traditions aren't backed by fear of spiritual repercussions, do you foresee a day when they'll adjust to appease modern sentiments on equality? A single Grand Lodge is welcome to change the rules however it wants. However, you run into the problem of regularity with the other Grand Lodges. Consider: 1) How does one establish a world-wide network of brotherhood without a central governing authority? 2) How does one enforce a standard of uniformity and tradition without a central governing authority? 3) How does one protect Freemasonry against those who would use its name for unscrupulous profit? Basically each F&AM / AF&AM Grand Lodge has voluntary contractual agreements with every other F&AM / AF&AM Grand Lodge, allowing their members to visit each others lodges, participate in ceremonies, etc. A Master Mason raised in a California Lodge is recognized as a Master Mason in Mexico and can receive the benefits of membership no matter where he travels because of these agreements. This is called "regularity", and part of the requirements to establish regularity between lodges is that they all abide by the same basic rules. Every lodge literally has a list of all the lodges that it is in regularity with. Any Grand Lodge that breaks these Masonic rules by affiliating with an "irregular" lodge, is declared irregular itself and automatically shunned from the World-Wide Masonic community. Basically peer-pressure institutionalized on a world-wide scale. There have, and still are, many organizations claiming to be masonry that are basically for-profit scams designed to make a lot of money for their organizers via membership dues. And these laws of regularity basically keep Freemasonry from being infiltrated by outsiders. Edit: I mention Grand Lodges because a Grand Lodge is responsible for ensuring a uniform set of procedures and regulations within its own jurisdiction. There can be some slight differences in policy and wording of ceremonies between Grand Lodges, but those are fairly minor and definitely do not impinge upon any of the fundamental values of Freemasonry. INTJ Mastermind fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 16:27
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Very Nice Eraser posted:Gotcha. I don't want to spoil this thread and the information is just a Google away. But I do have some questions regarding the spiritual overtones of the rituals. To be vague, how do those Masons whose religious beliefs don't include an afterlife or resurrection deal with the relevant rituals? Very Nice Eraser posted:On a different subject, earlier in this thread a few people posted that no man has the authority to change the underpinnings of Masonic tradition
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Jan 23, 2013 16:27
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To summarize the issue of why no man nor institution can change those of Freemasonry, it's not about a religious zealousness - after all, Freemasonry is largely a child of the Enlightenment, but rather that even if every single Mason on the planet unanimously agreed to change the ancient landmarks, by virtue of participating in a vote to do so they would no longer be Masons. As for the bit about rituals not being from my own particular sect or creed, this does not reduce their instructive value. Unlike the sciences and mathematics and such, where learning it usually means just learning it plainly, moral philosophy can be taught allegorically or symbolically. I don't mind any other religion. I recognize this is not a view shared by all, but conveniently those who would not share this view generally belong to religions that are in conformity with Masonic ritual. As for me, whatever religion teaches a good and wholesome lesson to educate men to behave virtuously is a good religion, and I support it, even if I don't practice it. Freemasonry does not actually have a religious story, though, but rather a story with religious components that are not actually tied to religion. That's worth noting. I mean, just because a story takes place in China doesn't mean you have to accept Confucianism or Taoism to learn from it. If a story takes place in Israel, you don't need to be an Israelite to take something away, and so on.
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Jan 23, 2013 16:44
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Very Nice Eraser posted:Gotcha. I don't want to spoil this thread and the information is just a Google away. But I do have some questions regarding the spiritual overtones of the rituals. To be vague, how do those Masons whose religious beliefs don't include an afterlife or resurrection deal with the relevant rituals? Some Grand Lodges require a belief in the afterlife, but also, the rituals are designed to be meaningful to each Brother in their own way. Basically, they deal with it however they want. quote:On a different subject, earlier in this thread a few people posted that no man has the authority to change the underpinnings of Masonic tradition: men only, no atheists, etc. That argument makes sense in religion because there's typically a belief in a supernatural power that establishes the rules of the universe, but how does that work in the lodge? In other words, since the traditions aren't backed by fear of spiritual repercussions, do you foresee a day when they'll adjust to appease modern sentiments on equality? We've discussed it before, but I'll reiterate what I've said. Unfortunately, I can't be crystal clear here because some of it is part of the oath we take, and I can't give specifics. Suffice it to say, we've sworn not to allow women or atheists become Masons. In order for those things to change, we'd have to break our oaths, and then we'd no longer be Masons, so leading a woman or an atheist through initiation would not long be done in a "regular" manner, and thus it can't be done. So regardless of how we all feel about it, we can't do it because of oaths and logic.
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Jan 23, 2013 16:47
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Oh, yeah, it should be made clear that voting to change things about Freemasonry is totally possible, just not certain things referred to as "ancient landmarks" which, amusingly, are phrased or interpreted different ways. For example Maryland includes "resurrection to a future life." I consider that vague enough that I can plug in attainment of the enlightened state for that and it makes sense, or in a pinch I believe in rebirth so yeah, I'll be resurrected to a future life. It might be as a grasshopper or a moose or something but it's a future life. Under pressure I'd say "I" can't be resurrected so that's a problem, but once one starts deconstructing dualism inherent in language they're off the beaten path already. Anyhow, little things can change. My lodge is working on altering bylaws to change dues (currently $50 plus the grand lodge assessment) among other things, which is something we first have to submit to the grand lodge, and if approved we then have to notify every member by mail, and then pass by 2/3 majority of all members who attend the meeting. It's a harrowing process but can be done. We also recently had a grand lodge vote to change whether or not entered apprentices could vote and be considered 'full members' but also have to pay dues (we quashed this again). The only things that can't change are those ancient landmarks, and the most of those are enshrined in ritual anyhow.
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Jan 23, 2013 16:55
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I personally foresee a day when masonry will "adjust to appease modern sentiments on equality", and I think it will take place in America within the next generation. As has been said, many lodges have already more or less desegregated. I happen to live in a particularly backward state, Oklahoma, where just like in politics, we are held back by the bigotry of older generations. Like in my lodge, there's a 77 year old man who is the greatest guy, he knows virtually all the language in the blue lodge up and down, and just couldn't be a cooler guy or a better teacher. Though, occasionally he will refer to someone as "colored", or maybe imply that the problems in today's schools are because of "Spanish kids". This is a serious problem in America, really old people who vote. Because you see, in freemasonry the induction of a new brother must be by unanimous vote. The votes are anonymous and it only takes one "black ball" to deny you admission. Though, I believe the declining numbers of recent decades have made now the most inclusive time in Masonic history. Lodges need more, younger members. As I understand it, our jurisdiction is under order from the grand lodge to desegregate, but neither the "white lodges" nor "black lodges" want to. If we did tomorrow, I think the relics of prejudice would prevent our lodge from achieving what every lodge should have, what we call "harmony". The same goes for women I'm afraid. I think every man can agree upon the difficulty of achieving harmony with women.  Men and women are fundamentally, emotionally, psychologically, chemically, biologically different. This difference extends into our culture, and makes it so, it's really just best if men have brotherhoods and women have sisterhoods. What can I say? It's just the way things are in 2013 Midwest US.
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Jan 23, 2013 20:24
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Galaxy Pig posted:The same goes for women I'm afraid. I think every man can agree upon the difficulty of achieving harmony with women. Which is why lodges won't desegregate. Because lodges are literally an escape for married guys and that's the #1 reason for that rule at this point in history. It's basically "Sorry honey, Ancient Landmarks dictate that tonight is hanging out with the guys."
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Jan 23, 2013 20:27
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The difference is that none of the Ancient Landmarks nor anything in our oaths ever prevented people with darker skin from becoming a Mason.
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Jan 23, 2013 20:48
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And practically speaking, part of the ritual involves being tied up, blind folded, and paraded around the room half naked. Not in a weird fetishy manner or anything, but could be problematic for a female candidate. We'd also have to replace the goat with a ewe, and we have enough trouble feeding and taking care of one already. INTJ Mastermind fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jan 23, 2013 |
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Jan 23, 2013 21:07
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Yeah, I hadn't thought of that, I would probably get turned on.
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Jan 23, 2013 21:27
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