Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > The Cavern of COBOL > Coding Horrors: You can gather all your technical debt into one easy framework!

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ultramiraculous: Nov 12, 2003; "No..."; Grimey Drawer

quiggy posted:

Matlab is very good for computational purposes. You don't need to worry about data types or float precision or whatever, just let it do its thing. Also it has a lot of really useful and obscure built-in functions that you can do pretty much whatever with. If you're working in a science or engineering field and say "Oh, I need a program to do <thing> and have some amount of programming ability myself", 9 times out of 10 Matlab is probably your best bet.

From talking to people who swear by it, that sounds about right. It basically falls somewhere between Excel and "actual programming". You can pull in a bunch of data and get a nice output without needing to know much about the gritty details (precision, how dates are stored, etc), but, like Excel, there's some point where you go from "testing an algorithm/rapidly solving a problem" toward "the whole company runs on this workbook" and the horror starts to build up. The affordances that allow for that quick initial development start to cause more problems than they solve.

# ? Jan 23, 2013 20:19

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# ? May 16, 2024 11:34

Plorkyeran: Mar 22, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

Wheany posted:

So why is Matlab so big? Does everyone just use it because everyone uses it?

To some extent yes, in that R, numpy or Mathematica would often be a better choice, but Matlab's horrors aren't always all that obvious to the target audience. A lot of Matlab's users love it because it does do a lot of things really well, and if you're an engineer who knows just enough programming to get by, you may not even realize that things like being able to break the file editor by defining a function named 'message' aren't perfectly normal for programming languages.

ultramiraculous posted:

From talking to people who swear by it, that sounds about right. It basically falls somewhere between Excel and "actual programming". You can pull in a bunch of data and get a nice output without needing to know much about the gritty details (precision, how dates are stored, etc), but, like Excel, there's some point where you go from "testing an algorithm/rapidly solving a problem" toward "the whole company runs on this workbook" and the horror starts to build up. The affordances that allow for that quick initial development start to cause more problems than they solve.

Excel is a decent comparison, but the problems you run into with Excel are mostly a result of the idea of a spreadsheet being stretched too far, while the problems you run into with Matlab are due to amazing levels of incompetence from the developers.

# ? Jan 23, 2013 20:24

ninjeff: Jan 19, 2004

ivantod posted:

2. In the outer catch: it's cool no need to log the exception, that's pretty standard in this app. What's far more egregious is that this "poo poo!!!" text actually propagates all the way back to the GUI and is in fact displayed to the user when there is an exception in this code. This actually happened, that's how I found this code.

I realise that is (almost) nothing compared to some of the stuff seen here, but it really annoyed me today.

Randomly displaying "poo poo!!!" to the user because of a database error is a pretty big (and hilarious) horror.

# ? Jan 23, 2013 20:55

Internet Janitor: May 17, 2008; "That isn't the appropriate trash receptacle."

When civil engineers design a bridge and show a scale model to their boss/customers nobody would ever suggest using the model as an actual bridge. A tremendous number of problems in software come from the fact that it is physically possible to use prototype software in a production environment, and therein lies the danger of tools which make rapid prototyping easy.

# ? Jan 23, 2013 20:56

Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

Coming up: 3D printed bridges

# ? Jan 23, 2013 21:36

Don Mega: Nov 26, 2005

A friend of mine left a bunch of print("poop") statements in his code once. I do not think the boss was too happy about that.

# ? Jan 23, 2013 21:40

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Wheany posted:

So why is Matlab so big? Does everyone just use it because everyone uses it?

It also does matrix operations reasonably fast, without having to write more than A * B

# ? Jan 23, 2013 22:17

zootm: Aug 8, 2006; We used to be better friends.

tef posted:

It also does matrix operations reasonably fast, without having to write more than A * B

The fun thing about Matlab in that respect is that you have to use matrices and lists for almost everything, as the language itself is so slow that your only hope is translating your input so there is some library function that takes you directly to your desired output.

# ? Jan 23, 2013 23:28

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

Internet Janitor posted:

When civil engineers design a bridge and show a scale model to their boss/customers nobody would ever suggest using the model as an actual bridge. A tremendous number of problems in software come from the fact that it is physically possible to use prototype software in a production environment, and therein lies the danger of tools which make rapid prototyping easy.

In many software domains, nobody dies or loses much money if you put up a prototype and see what breaks or fails first. Overbuilding the wrong part of software is exceedingly expensive: nobody wants a web framework that is also an IRC bot framework, especially when the plumbing for IRC imposes non-sensible constraints on the web parts.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 00:25

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

ninjeff posted:

Randomly displaying "poo poo!!!" to the user because of a database error is a pretty big (and hilarious) horror.

Personally, if I had random text floating up from gobs of code I'd be ecstatic to see it was in English.

Cocoa Crispies posted:

nobody wants a web framework that is also an IRC bot framework, especially when the plumbing for IRC imposes non-sensible constraints on the web parts.

Oh drat, really? Because I've got this migration patent...

# ? Jan 24, 2013 00:46

Jonnty: Aug 2, 2007; The enemy has become a flaming star!

Cocoa Crispies posted:

nobody wants a web framework that is also an IRC bot framework, especially when the plumbing for IRC imposes non-sensible constraints on the web parts.

Yeah that would be crazy. I refuse to believe anyone would be stupid enough to even try.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 00:48

Maluco Marinero: Jan 18, 2001; Damn that's a
fine elephant.

Jonnty posted:

Yeah that would be crazy. I refuse to believe anyone would be stupid enough to even try.

http://giotto.readthedocs.org/en/latest/built_in_controller_classes.html

# ? Jan 24, 2013 00:56

Optimus Prime Ribs: Jul 25, 2007

Wheany posted:

So why is Matlab so big? Does everyone just use it because everyone uses it?

While knowing nothing about Matlab I will assume it's for the same reason PHP is so big.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 00:56

hobbesmaster: Jan 28, 2008

Matlab is a LAPACK front end for people that don't know fortran. If you want it to do anything else you're asking too much. It's basically maintained backwards compatibility so that's where a lot of strange behavior comes from.

LabVIEW actually doesn't have that excuse, they break compatibility regularly and don't give you old versions so you're kinda hosed when the pentiun pro from 1994 running your mass spectrometer craps out.

Nobody treats either of these languages as "real programming" and won't pay for a "real programmer" to use them even if its the cornerstone of a production line or test process and they need someone that understands the depths of how strange they are once your applications are no longer simple.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 01:10

zergstain: Dec 15, 2005

I started fixing some printf like calls at work today, and a guy was talking about how there was a cellular carrier whose backend SMS servers crashed if anybody texted the string "%s". Would anybody know any details about this? I didn't ask which company it was.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 01:44

Jonnty: Aug 2, 2007; The enemy has become a flaming star!

Maluco Marinero posted:

http://giotto.readthedocs.org/en/latest/built_in_controller_classes.html

Oh wow, reading my post now you'd almost think I was referring specifically to this!

# ? Jan 24, 2013 02:11

Maluco Marinero: Jan 18, 2001; Damn that's a
fine elephant.

Jonnty posted:

Oh wow, reading my post now you'd almost think I was referring specifically to this!

Yep, bonus points if you figure out which forums user is responsible for this.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 02:33

shrughes: Oct 11, 2008; (call/cc call/cc)

To be fair, there is a common set of code that HTTP and IRC frameworks can be grounded upon.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 02:52

Plorkyeran: Mar 22, 2007; To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed

A combined HTTP and IRC framework could be an interesting part of an academic experiment in creating a maximally generic asynchronous server framework, but even if that experiment was a resounding success and you made an awesome thing that every other framework was built upon, no one would actually want to use it for HTTP and IRC front-ends at the same time.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 03:44

shrughes: Oct 11, 2008; (call/cc call/cc)

I could imagine an IRC server serving a web-based IRC app.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 04:05

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

Speaking of Matlab/Mathematica/etc, I reviewed an applicant code submission written in IDL today (they are currently at an astro-related institute whose name I forget).

I did Astro+CS in college and had a work-study job on the Astro side, so I had immediate flashbacks to awful grad student IDL one-offs.

The code submission itself was pretty good though, about as clean as one can be expected to manage in IDL.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 06:05

Pilsner: Nov 23, 2002

Found this in the source code to Notepad++. Quite a brutal method name.

code:

void Notepad_plus::killAllChildren()

# ? Jan 24, 2013 11:41

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

Maluco Marinero posted:

Yep, bonus points if you figure out which forums user is responsible for this.

Congratulations for decoding the joke!

Pilsner posted:

Found this in the source code to Notepad++. Quite a brutal method name.
code:
void Notepad_plus::killAllChildren()

I take perverse satisfaction when I type killall unicorn, talk about master/slave/dead/zombie unicorns, run be a unicorn, etc.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 16:29

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

Cocoa Crispies posted:

Congratulations for decoding the joke!

I take perverse satisfaction when I type killall unicorn,

As satisfying as it may be, 1/3 of them will be aligned, so you'll take a huge alignment and luck hit to do this.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 16:44

Doctor w-rw-rw-: Jun 24, 2008

Plorkyeran posted:

A combined HTTP and IRC framework could be an interesting part of an academic experiment in creating a maximally generic asynchronous server framework, but even if that experiment was a resounding success and you made an awesome thing that every other framework was built upon, no one would actually want to use it for HTTP and IRC front-ends at the same time.

Uh, Netty? It already has HTTP modules; I can't imagine it being a stretch for IRC, since it's an asynchronous TCP/UDP server framework that allows filters at any point of abstraction from processing the raw packets to transforming POJOs. Quite nifty, and in fact used in the financial sector for low-latency high-throughput tasks. Reliable and stable.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 17:17

JawnV6: Jul 4, 2004; So hot ...

Otto Skorzeny posted:

As satisfying as it may be, 1/3 of them will be aligned, so you'll take a huge alignment and luck hit to do this.

Gems should be plentiful, why would luck matter? And if alignment is an issue, polymorphism should be applied liberally.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 17:31

Jonnty: Aug 2, 2007; The enemy has become a flaming star!

Maluco Marinero posted:

Yep, bonus points if you figure out which forums user is responsible for this.

I was trying to break it to you with more sarcasm though obviously that was a poor decision so I'll give it to you straight - I know and was specifically alluding to this with my first post.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 18:22

Maluco Marinero: Jan 18, 2001; Damn that's a
fine elephant.

Jonnty posted:

I was trying to break it to you with more sarcasm though obviously that was a poor decision so I'll give it to you straight - I know and was specifically alluding to this with my first post.

Ah. Didn't realise his work made it onto here, I remember it being on the Python thread. Never mind me.

# ? Jan 24, 2013 22:14

Hughlander: May 11, 2005

Maluco Marinero posted:

Ah. Didn't realise his work made it onto here, I remember it being on the Python thread. Never mind me.

You are in for a treat then, go back about a week maybe two weeks there's a good 4 page derail.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 03:57

Progressive JPEG: Feb 19, 2003

code:

int index = -1;
if (headerIndexMap.find(field) != headerIndexMap.end()) {
    index = headerIndexMap[field];
}
if (index != -1) {
    [...]
}

# ? Jan 25, 2013 14:46

nielsm: Jun 1, 2009

Progressive JPEG posted:

code:

int index = -1;
if (headerIndexMap.find(field) != headerIndexMap.end()) {
    index = headerIndexMap[field];
}
if (index != -1) {
    [...]
}

He burnt his fingers on storing an iterator into a vector around for too long, and swore to never store another iterator ever again.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 15:23

Bunny Cuddlin: Dec 12, 2004

can't stop laughing at this whiny turd:
http://harthur.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/771/

# ? Jan 25, 2013 16:19

Don Mega: Nov 26, 2005

Now I am paranoid that there are people laughing at some of the crap I post on my github.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 16:56

Zombywuf: Mar 29, 2008

Bunny Cuddlin posted:

can't stop laughing at this whiny turd:
http://harthur.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/771/

Oh for flying fucks sake. A bloo bloo bloo, I wrote a lovely grep in javascript, why don't people like me? Now people are holding it up as an example of bullying in the software industry.

Don Mega posted:

Now I am paranoid that there are people laughing at some of the crap I post on my github.

They are, hell if they're not you're not trying hard enough.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 17:04

Blotto Skorzany: Nov 7, 2008; He's a PSoC, loose and runnin'
came the whisper from each lip
And he's here to do some business with
the bad ADC on his chip
bad ADC on his chiiiiip

Bunny Cuddlin posted:

can't stop laughing at this whiny turd:
http://harthur.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/771/

why_are_there_so_few_women_programmers.txt

# ? Jan 25, 2013 17:04

Bunny Cuddlin: Dec 12, 2004

Otto Skorzeny posted:

why_are_there_so_few_women_programmers.txt

Seriously? I didn't even realize this person was a woman until I read this post. What does this have to do with gender?

# ? Jan 25, 2013 17:10

Carthag Tuek: Oct 15, 2005; Tider skal komme,
tider skal henrulle,
sl�gt skal f�lge sl�gters gang

I don't really see any problems with it. I mean I probably wouldn't make a grep in javascript, but whatever, my eyes aren't bleeding.

# ? Jan 25, 2013 17:12

Zombywuf: Mar 29, 2008

Carthag posted:

I don't really see any problems with it. I mean I probably wouldn't make a grep in javascript, but whatever, my eyes aren't bleeding.

https://github.com/harthur/replace/blob/master/replace.js

What happens when line 90 is hit (or Ctrl-C)? Consider this with respect to line 98.

HINT: in place replace is bad MKAY

# ? Jan 25, 2013 17:19

..btt: Mar 26, 2008

Me neither to be honest. I checked on one guy's justification and it was basically "sed already does this". But as she states, the syntax is not the best, and it doesn't list the changes it makes (I assume this is true, I don't know sed well); also, it's a pain to set up on some platforms (e.g. Windows).

He then goes on to bash node for being immature, which I find ironic as he seems to be primarily a ruby guy and ruby is immature in comparison to many other platforms/languages.

I guess the lesson is that a lot of people on Twitter are whiny turds...

# ? Jan 25, 2013 17:24

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# ? May 16, 2024 11:34

Doctor w-rw-rw-: Jun 24, 2008

Zombywuf posted:

Oh for flying fucks sake. A bloo bloo bloo, I wrote a lovely grep in javascript, why don't people like me? Now people are holding it up as an example of bullying in the software industry.

She wrote a "worse grep" in javascript, the first comment was ridicule instead of "I wouldn't use this, but...", and a lot of people made fun of her instead of offering constructive advice.

Bunny Cuddlin posted:

Seriously? I didn't even realize this person was a woman until I read this post. What does this have to do with gender?

Because responding to these things with "man up and take the insults" is a hallmark of a lovely person. Yes, a thick skin is a good thing to have and beneficial to survival. That doesn't mean that the insults themselves should be normal or considered beneficial as well. Constructive criticism need not be insulting. It took me a few years to come around to this perspective but ever since I have it's been way easier to get people to consistently take note of technical flaws and do something about them, even if I'm not in charge.

Men also tend to forgive social dysfunction when results are produced more easily than many women*. So while "Ever wanted to make sed or grep worse? <link>" might possibly be true in some respects, he was an rear end in a top hat about it. It's likely that he doesn't discriminate against women, but the practice of being an rear end in a top hat about it certainly favors the kind of people more willing to be confrontational about things.

* Disclaimer: this is a social difference with different advantages and disadvantages, so don't peg me as being prejudiced towards one or the other

Side note: is there a way to mark forum members privately? I'd like to make a note of certain people who seem to offset legitimately impressive technical knowledge with a really awful personality.

Doctor w-rw-rw- fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jan 25, 2013

# ? Jan 25, 2013 17:38

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