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Mock my Three Stooges training if you wish, all I know is that I have techniques in my toolkit you don't even know the name of. We'll see who's incompetent when you tap to me twisting your nose with an over-sized novelty wrench.
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Jan 27, 2013 00:43
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dokomoy posted:I know this is an AWFUL idea, but somebody please organize the Goon Kumite. Fatherdog is in Jersey right? I'd only have to travel a relatively short distance to get my rear end kicked by him. Count me in. e: also civilobedience I can't tell if any of this is serious, your posts are absurd.
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Jan 27, 2013 00:44
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Chexoid posted:Mock my Three Stooges training if you wish, all I know is that I have techniques in my toolkit you don't even know the name of. We'll see who's incompetent when you tap to me twisting your nose with an over-sized novelty wrench. Hey if you tap and there's no rule against it I'd say you're the dummy for not bringing your own wrench
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Jan 27, 2013 00:48
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But to be serious for a moment, you're just playing along right?
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Jan 27, 2013 00:54
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Check his post history in this thread by clicking the # under his name and you'll see he's probably serious. Make of that what you will.
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Jan 27, 2013 02:20
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CivilDisobedience posted:Who tried to lecture? Look again at this post that you found so offensive This is getting pretty embarrassing, and you should probably stop. v  vBohemian Nights fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jan 27, 2013 |
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Jan 27, 2013 02:20
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CivilDisobedience posted:Who tried to lecture? Look again at this post that you found so offensive I didn't find it offensive, I found it hilarious, but since you insist,yes, let's look again at this post. You say you cringe every time someone goes for a toehold in reference to the BJJ Kumite video posted - but nobody in that video went for a "bend the toes down" move, they were all going for the toehold in the posted video that you said was "just a normal footlock". So, when you started talking about toeholds, either you were making a complete non sequitor by talking about a move that didn't happen at all in the video the rest of your post was referring to, in which case you are pretty bad at posting, or you were talking about the moves that actually happened in the video, in which case you are so incredibly ignorant about leglocks that you thought those moves actually involved bending the toes down and are now trying to claim that's a completely different (and totally legitimate, really you guys!) move in a (completely unsuccesful) attempt to disguise your lack of knowledge.
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Jan 27, 2013 02:21
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CivilDisobedience posted:no rule against it Taratang already addressed this for you.
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Jan 27, 2013 02:24
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I'm not trying to disguise anything, I read "toehold" and thought it was the move I know as a toehold, and now I'm wondering why anyone would adopt your definition. You disputing "my" toehold's legitimacy (or effectiveness) is a non-issue to me, which is why I haven't said anything about it. I know if it works or not. And as far as the rules go I'm still trying to figure out how you even penalize for something like small joint manipulation in this no-points format. Was taratang even quoting from the rules? I can't find them. CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jan 27, 2013 |
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Jan 27, 2013 03:15
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CivilDisobedience posted:I'm not trying to disguise anything, I read "toehold" Really? Where? Because you were responding to a video, so you couldn't have "read" anything in it, and you were the first person on the page to post anything about a toehold.
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Jan 27, 2013 03:19
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He doesn't watch the things he's commenting on. He fits right in here.
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Jan 27, 2013 03:28
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As long as we're talking about toeholds, does anyone have advice on how to defend them? I'm getting better at recognizing the positions where I'm vulnerable and trying to prevent them, but once people have the grip I'm not entirely sure what to do.
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Jan 27, 2013 03:48
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dokomoy posted:As long as we're talking about toeholds, does anyone have advice on how to defend them? I'm getting better at recognizing the positions where I'm vulnerable and trying to prevent them, but once people have the grip I'm not entirely sure what to do. The basic defense for the toehold is to straighten your leg; that's why toehold/kneebar is the triangle/omoplata of leg attacks. At a more abstract level, the guy toeholding you needs to directly or indirectly control your hips because if your hips are free to move you can spin faster than he can twist your foot. Think of it like an armbar - the immediate defense is clasp your hands, the actual escape is to get his leg off your head. Similarly, the immediate defense is to kick your leg straight, but the ultimate escape is to remove whatever he's using to control your hips.
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Jan 27, 2013 03:52
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I'm trying to learn the chicken wing from catch wrestling, but I'm not sure which dipping sauce to use. Now what?
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Jan 27, 2013 04:26
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fatherdog posted:Really? Where? Because you were responding to a video, so you couldn't have "read" anything in it, and you were the first person on the page to post anything about a toehold. On the video, multiple times. And it wasn't always clear exactly what kind of toehold was being used.
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Jan 27, 2013 04:31
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CivilDisobedience posted:On the video, multiple times. And it wasn't always clear exactly what kind of toehold was being used. Can you find a technique writeup or breakdown video anywhere online of your colloquial submission? The kumite had a bunch of toeholds. They were just the same old toeholds.
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Jan 27, 2013 04:47
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Saw that the grappling thread had 50 new posts, thought something cool happened. Turns out a guy who admittedly didn't know what a toe-hold was argued for 50 posts about what a toe-hold was. Was not disappointed. 
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Jan 27, 2013 05:38
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Its the biggest thing to hit the grappling thread since that guy critiqued fatherdog's competition video.
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Jan 27, 2013 05:48
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fatherdog posted:The basic defense for the toehold is to straighten your leg; that's why toehold/kneebar is the triangle/omoplata of leg attacks. At a more abstract level, the guy toeholding you needs to directly or indirectly control your hips because if your hips are free to move you can spin faster than he can twist your foot. Think of it like an armbar - the immediate defense is clasp your hands, the actual escape is to get his leg off your head. Similarly, the immediate defense is to kick your leg straight, but the ultimate escape is to remove whatever he's using to control your hips. Yea, that's about what I figured. I get in trouble giving up the kneebar when defending sometimes, but I think I just need to spend more time in the position. I'm still a purple belt, so I don't see them very often and when I do I freak out and quicktap a lot.
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Jan 27, 2013 06:06
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Kekekela posted:Its the biggest thing to hit the grappling thread since that guy critiqued fatherdog's competition video. Must have missed that. Did he suck?
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Jan 27, 2013 06:07
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The consensus was that he needed to cut his hair.
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Jan 27, 2013 06:08
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CivilDisobedience posted:And as far as the rules go I'm still trying to figure out how you even penalize for something like small joint manipulation in this no-points format. Was taratang even quoting from the rules? I can't find them. FYI, under IBJJF rules the only small joint manipulation specifically banned is bending fingers back, so as long as you're competing in brown belt or black belt divisions your "bend the toes down" supermove is legal. I encourage you to enter a tournament and report back; after all since BJJ players don't train to defend your secret toe hold you should be able to easily defeat them with your bigger toolbox. Kekekela posted:Its the biggest thing to hit the grappling thread since that guy critiqued fatherdog's competition video. hahahahahaha holy poo poo is this that same guy? fuckin' lol dokomoy posted:Yea, that's about what I figured. I get in trouble giving up the kneebar when defending sometimes, but I think I just need to spend more time in the position. I'm still a purple belt, so I don't see them very often and when I do I freak out and quicktap a lot. Yeah, spending time in the position and getting comfortable so you're confident defending is usually a good idea (although try not to get TOO relaxed in getting into it, since the best defense is always not letting your opponent get into an attacking position to begin with). The key to most leglock defense is always not letting them control the hip; if you can keep that in mind you'll usually be able to figure out a way out provided you have enough time. If there's a specific position you're getting caught from a lot lemme know so I (and other folks in the thread) can give more specific advice.
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Jan 27, 2013 06:22
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Novum posted:Must have missed that. Did he suck? I did kind of suck in the video I posted, although that was secondary to the fact that the dude started posting advice that directly contradicted the advice I got from my coach after the match, and then got into a snit when I told him he was an idiot.
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Jan 27, 2013 06:25
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Now that 'lecturing your betters' comment makes a lot more sense! How 'amusing' E: Also, under IBJJF brown belts fight 5 minute rounds for points so it doesn't seem unreasonable that there would be other changes as well. Still wondering how penalties would work! CivilDisobedience fucked around with this message at 06:54 on Jan 27, 2013 |
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Jan 27, 2013 06:45
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CivilDisobedience posted:Now that 'lecturing your betters' comment makes a lot more sense! How 'amusing' lol, if you think I actually remembered your stupidity from a year ago before being reminded you have a vastly inflated sense of your own importance. Also, fatherdog posted:FYI, under IBJJF rules the only small joint manipulation specifically banned is bending fingers back, so as long as you're competing in brown belt or black belt divisions your "bend the toes down" supermove is legal. I encourage you to enter a tournament and report back; after all since BJJ players don't train to defend your secret toe hold you should be able to easily defeat them with your bigger toolbox.
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Jan 27, 2013 06:49
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fatherdog posted:hahahahahaha holy poo poo is this that same guy? fuckin' lol Oh I don't remember who it was, I was just saying 'that guy' in the generic sense. e: well drat, guess it was Kekekela fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Jan 27, 2013 |
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Jan 27, 2013 06:54
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fatherdog posted:lol, if you think I actually remembered your stupidity from a year ago before being reminded you have a vastly inflated sense of your own importance. I guess I believe you then! Still not seeing any advantage to your terminology though.
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Jan 27, 2013 07:02
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CivilDisobedience posted:I guess I believe you then! Still not seeing any advantage to your terminology though. The main advantage of referring to what we call a toehold as a toehold is that the majority of people who train grappling arts will know what the gently caress you're talking about. The main advantage of not referring to what you call a toehold as a toehold is that you won't have to explain to the majority of people who train grappling arts what you're talking about, which has the side benefit of not having the majority of people who train grappling arts laugh hysterically when you tell them about how dangerous and effective your "bend the toes down" move is.
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Jan 27, 2013 07:07
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Now it's 'the majority'. If you represent this majority or entirety or whatever I think I'd prefer to keep you laughing.
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Jan 27, 2013 07:13
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CivilDisobedience posted:Now it's 'the majority'. If you represent this majority or entirety or whatever I think I'd prefer to keep you laughing. Feel free to enter a tournament and prove me wrong! In the meantime, I'm going to continue thinking that you and anyone else that things bending toes down is a legitimate dangerous submission hold are pretty terrible at grappling; I doubt anyone is going to give me any reason to believe differently.
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Jan 27, 2013 07:17
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Also I don't "represent" the majority of decent grapplers any more than the guy who tells you the world is round "represents" the majority of geologists - we're just the dudes telling you what anyone with a clue already knows.
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Jan 27, 2013 07:19
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CivilDisobedience posted:Now it's 'the majority'. If you represent this majority or entirety or whatever I think I'd prefer to keep you laughing. Not trying to dogpile on you or anything, but I don't know anyone who's ever trained, or given serious thought to training, who doesn't identify 'toe-hold' with the move you've seen posted. It's probably just time to agree to disagree and let it die.
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Jan 27, 2013 07:20
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Novum posted:It's probably just time to agree to disagree and let it die. Right, I'm fine with that. I assume I'll be allowed to do the toe hold my way in this proposed goon Kumite, since it's harmless and ineffective?
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Jan 27, 2013 07:30
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Goon kumite sounds awesome, but you all have to come to the northeast.
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Jan 27, 2013 07:32
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CivilDisobedience posted:Right, I'm fine with that. I assume I'll be allowed to do the toe hold my way in this proposed goon Kumite, since it's harmless and ineffective? Yes, of course! I look forward to tapping you shortly after.
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Jan 27, 2013 07:39
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CivilDisobedience posted:Right, I'm fine with that. I assume I'll be allowed to do the toe hold my way in this proposed goon Kumite, since it's harmless and ineffective? fatherdog posted:FYI, under IBJJF rules the only small joint manipulation specifically banned is bending fingers back, so as long as you're competing in brown belt or black belt divisions your "bend the toes down" supermove is legal. I encourage you to enter a tournament and report back; after all since BJJ players don't train to defend your secret toe hold you should be able to easily defeat them with your bigger toolbox.
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Jan 27, 2013 07:40
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Im gonna toe hold everyone in this 2 bit Forum.
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Jan 27, 2013 07:48
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Novum posted:Goon kumite sounds awesome, but you all have to come to the northeast. I'd also like to use this moment to talk about the mata leao with foot aka toehold. I like the term mata leao with foot because it says a lot more about the grip for this submission instead of toehold. When you get a proper teohold grip your hand will be contacting your opponent's toes. Your hand will be on the pinky toe side of your opponent's foot with your hand gripping at the end of the foot so that your pinky will usually contact the pinky toe of the foot. This is the "toehold" reference. However the remaining grip will look like you are trying to mata leao/rear naked choke his foot with the achilles tendon serving the role of the trachea. You framing arm will come around the leg so that the achilles/calf is in the pocket of your elbow as if it is an RNC and you'll grip your toehold hand's wrist/forearm. Many people think that you torque the foot inward with your toe grip to finish the toehold. On the contrary, the most effective finish will instead use the toehold hand to curl the toes downward a and slightly torque the foot inward but will then freeze the toes in this position. The breaking torque will comes from pulling the elbow of your framing/wrist grip arm back to you. This toe curl may be the source of some of this confusion. Done properly this toehold torques the knee through use of the foot as a lever. The other interesting thing about the toehold is that in many ways it's also similar to the kimura. Imagine the kimura sit up entry from guard. Now imagine yourself seated with your opponent seated in front of you and you have your legs interlaced. Your opponent has one leg over your hip on one side with his knee up. Now you will do a kimura sit up but instead of reaching over his shoulder it will be over his knee into the toehold grip. As you do this you'' bring your opposite leg over the top of his trapped leg to the outside of his hip so that you bring your legs around his trapped leg and control his leg and hips. His trapped leg knee should be close to your higher hip and his foot should be close to your chest. How get the toehold grip as discussed above and finish.
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Jan 27, 2013 08:05
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Yuns posted:I'm in the northeast as well. I'll play the part of Bolo Yeung. This is an excellent rundown of the technique in terms of grip of the foot, but I feel there is a point you're neglecting, which I touched on with my reply to dokomoy - which is that in order to finish a toehold without purely depending on speed, you have to control the hip in order to prevent the opponent from simply spinning out of it. This can be direct or indirect - direct control usually involves controlling the opposite leg (for instance, toeholding the free leg from top half guard, you control the other leg because it's trapped between your legs) whereas indirect involves initiating the toehold when your opponent's body is in a position making it difficult or impossible for them to spin their hips (such as initiating the toehold from omoplata position, a la Mir/Abbot EDIT: I guess you did actually touch on this in your last paragraph description. I should read better! fatherdog fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Jan 27, 2013 |
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Jan 27, 2013 08:12
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Yes you are correct. I glossed over the control component because I was more focused on explaining the grip and finish and didn't want to get into a long discussion about hip and leg control.
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Jan 27, 2013 08:17
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