|
Ncumbered, you were right. It was a backstab style. No burning or charring found, so it looks like I caught it in time. I yanked that outlet out and replaced it with a spare GFCI outlet I had on hand, and all seems to be well now. I have the electric fireplace on full blast, and the new outlet on the other side of the room is still cool to the touch, unlike the old one. I also did a sweep of all the other outlets in the room to ensure that none of them were warm as well, and everything checks out. Thank you guys for the help. I'll be able to sleep easier tonight.
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2013 20:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 11:17 |
|
|
So I take it the wire was loose?
|
|
#
?
Jan 26, 2013 20:57
|
|
|
Hoping this thread can save me. I'm trying to add two new standard size light bulb sockets like these to my garage and chain them with the two already installed. They're wired with 12-2 w/ground but I'm wondering what should I do with that ground. It appears to come in from the box to the first light box and is just wired straight through, no connection to a screw or anything inside that box. On the second box it goes in then right back out, presumably to a grounded something just outside the box? My question is if the circuit is already grounded do I need to bother running the ground out to the new third and fourth box I'm installing or can I just leave the ground where it is, essentially already grounded in the middle of the four light chain? Edit: Don't know if this is relevant but I'm adding about 20 feet to the circuit. 10 feet out from the first pair, then about 10 feet over to where the second will be added, making basically a 10 foot by 10 foot square on the ceiling. ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jan 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 01:21
|
|
|
ChesterJT posted:Hoping this thread can save me. I'm trying to add two new standard size light bulb sockets like these to my garage and chain them with the two already installed. They're wired with 12-2 w/ground but I'm wondering what should I do with that ground. It appears to come in from the box to the first light box and is just wired straight through, no connection to a screw or anything inside that box. On the second box it goes in then right back out, presumably to a grounded something just outside the box? My question is if the circuit is already grounded do I need to bother running the ground out to the new third and fourth box I'm installing or can I just leave the ground where it is, essentially already grounded in the middle of the four light chain? That style fixture is also not entirely legal to use in garages or, really, just about anywhere it's actually used, and I'm amazed the big boxes still sell them. I recommend springing for a $5-10 fixtures that covers the bulb and adds a nice measure of both safety, legality, and not looking like rear end. Might as well replace the others while you're at it. For that matter, you could upgrade to full-up T8 fluorescent lights- they'll wire up just the same and give a TON more light for the power. Honestly, you could probably just 1:1 replace your existing fixtures with T8 (or T12) flourescent fixtures and save a lot of trouble and get better results than adding 2 new lights. It doesn't matter that they're large and rectangular, they wire up just the same. You will need to mount them solidly to a ceiling joist, though, you can't just hang it off the box. Something like this, but with a cover (your Lowes will have a couple kinds in stock to pick from): http://www.lowes.com/pd_371819-32136-SL-1_0__?productId=3579728&Ntt=flourescent+light&Ns=p_product_price|0 grover fucked around with this message at 01:32 on Jan 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 01:27
|
|
|
You're putting mogul bulbs in your garage?   
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 01:31
|
|
|
grover posted:You're required to run a ground to each outlet box, but that style fixture does not require a ground connection, so you don't actually have to connect the ground wire to it, you can just run it straight through. Ok couple of things, you're saying I need to run the ground to each box, but since there's nothing to connect it to I can just leave it hanging at the end of the fourth light the way it is now at the end of the second? I guess that makes me wonder why even run it to the second box. Is it just a code thing and it's required by law to have the ground there even if it's serving no purpose? Your other comment makes me really curious about the legality of the sockets in garages. These were the types I had in the garage from when the house was originally built, and most garages I've ever been in have regular exposed light bulbs in sockets unless the owner has taken the time to put up some fluorescent or something. I'm not sure if that Lowe's link is to the wrong thing but I've never heard that regular exposed light bulbs in garages are against code. Edit: After the other guy's comment I realized I didn't link exactly to what I'm putting in, so maybe that's where the non-code talk is coming from? Three-Phase posted:You're putting mogul bulbs in your garage? I have never heard of a mogul bulb before but after looking it up on google, no, I'm not doing anything like that. I probably linked to the wrong thing on Lowe's. Just putting in standard sized light bulb sockets. (Yeah I see it now, I wasn't even paying attention to the wattage, more just about the basic style and shape. My bad there.) How about this? ChesterJT fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jan 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 01:45
|
|
|
grover posted:You're required to run a ground to each outlet box, but that style fixture does not require a ground connection, so you don't actually have to connect the ground wire to it, you can just run it straight through. Heh, I actually just added one of those to my attic last weekend, it already had 2 and I wanted a 3rd. Are they legal in the attic? What kind of $5-$10 fixture are you talking about? I thought about fluorescent too but thought they were perhaps not ideal in the cold/hot, and being rarely used in the attic it's a good place to use leftover incandescents.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 01:58
|
|
|
How the poo poo am I supposed to fit a gfci outlet in a single gang box? I don't feel like I have an excess of wire in there but I find myself having to tighten the outlet into the box to flaten out the run. Which leaves the outlet wonky rather than pretty.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 02:25
|
|
|
asdf32 posted:Heh, I actually just added one of those to my attic last weekend, it already had 2 and I wanted a 3rd. Are they legal in the attic? What kind of $5-$10 fixture are you talking about? National Electric Code posted:110.27.(B) Prevent Physical Damage. In locations where electrical equipment is likely to be exposed to physical damage, enclosures or guards shall be arranged and of such strength as to prevent such damage. Nothing wrong with using incandescents in an attic or rarely used basement. Unless you live in CA where it's illegal, but even then it's still kinda stupid to spend an extra $2 on a bulb to save maybe 2 cents in electricity. You *may* have issues with flourescent lights taking a while to turn on in your garage on cold mornings, but I've never really had problems in my garage. My unheated shed- yes, takes a long time to heat up, but not the garage. YMMV. FYI, enclosed CFLs (like floodlights and recessed lights) take a lot longer to warm up than open CFL fixtures, so definitely don't use them in cold areas. grover fucked around with this message at 02:38 on Jan 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 02:29
|
|
|
I think I got it Grover, thank you very much for the help and information!
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 02:33
|
|
|
My house was built in 2007 and it had three of those fixtures in the garage; it's not a junker house or anything, quite the opposite. I suspect that "likely to be exposed to physical damage" is highly subjective.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 02:33
|
|
|
Bad Munki posted:My house was built in 2007 and it had three of those fixtures in the garage; it's not a junker house or anything, quite the opposite. I suspect that "likely to be exposed to physical damage" is highly subjective.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 02:39
|
|
|
XmasGiftFromWife posted:How the poo poo am I supposed to fit a gfci outlet in a single gang box? I don't feel like I have an excess of wire in there but I find myself having to tighten the outlet into the box to flaten out the run. Which leaves the outlet wonky rather than pretty. Well there are lots of different depths, some single gangs are pretty deep. But if you're talking about the older style small metal ones I find all over my house then I can imagine it's pretty hard. I know they sell "slim" GPFCI outlets at home depot but from what I remember they aren't all that slim. There is an art to planning the wires so they bend back into the box in an organized fashion which I'm not adept at yet. grover posted:It's code that light bulbs need to be protected from physical damage; the risk is that the bulb glass could be broken, thus exposing live conductors within the bulb. There are a few niche places you could use a fixture like that with an exposed bulb, but not in your garage, attic, basement, closet, laundry room, or just about anywhere else people try to put them. Ah, ok well I'll add it to my list. Although pretty far down. Below going back and adding clamps to some knockouts with bare wires which I did before I realized clamps existed (I knew something probably wasn't quite right when I did that. In my defense the clamps are in a different isle from the boxes and I had never seen them).
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 02:43
|
|
|
grover posted:Depends on the inspector, yep; some allow it, some will red-tag you for it. NEC is explicit about not using them in closets and attics, but less so in garages, basements, etc. Anything over 6'6" is not readily accessible, therefore protected from physical damage. Unfinished and/or uninhabitable spaces that do not get regular use = no physical damage. I love our inspectors. As far as GFCIs in 1g boxes: it's rough. Get slimline, or be meticulous about fitting your wire in. The minimum you're allowed by code is 6" of wire where the wire enters the box. It's not very much if you measure it, and it helps for large devices in small spaces.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 03:40
|
|
|
babyeatingpsychopath posted:Anything over 6'6" is not readily accessible, therefore protected from physical damage. Ah, that must be it then. 8' ceiling. Good to know!
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 03:45
|
|
|
asdf32 posted:There is an art to planning the wires so they bend back into the box in an organized fashion which I'm not adept at yet. There's also old work boxes that allow for cramming all the wires and wire nuts to the side inside so you can use deeper receptacles.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 04:33
|
|
|
babyeatingpsychopath posted:Anything over 6'6" is not readily accessible, therefore protected from physical damage. Unfinished and/or uninhabitable spaces that do not get regular use = no physical damage. Attics are another funny one. If it's not used for storage, bare bulbs are OK. Throw a box in the attic, though? Now it's subject to damage. Seems to be a common convenient discrepancy- builder claim's it's not used for storage and cheaps out on the fixture to save $3, but what's the first thing the homeowner does? Toss some scrap plywood over the joists and fill 'er up. I wonder how many homes burn down when a cardboard box crushes a bulb and lights off?
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 04:35
|
|
|
At the risk of resurrecting an ancient cliche on these forums... problem solved?
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 05:16
|
|
|
I need that but for a 4' fluorescent fixture...preferably something that can be mounted I guess on the sheetrock? I saw one product on the web with a 5" width and 4" depth that I think would work, it seems to be the same thing sold pretty much everywhere, but I can't really tell how it actually mounts. This is the one I keep finding, I can't tell how those metal clips attach to the surface: http://www.amazon.com/Wire-Guard-Fl...cent+light+cage
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 05:20
|
|
|
Shoot, I thought that base was mogul - the 600W and 250V threw me off.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 05:24
|
|
|
Bad Munki posted:I need that but for a 4' fluorescent fixture...preferably something that can be mounted I guess on the sheetrock? I saw one product on the web with a 5" width and 4" depth that I think would work, it seems to be the same thing sold pretty much everywhere, but I can't really tell how it actually mounts. Would fluorescent tube guards count?
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 06:15
|
|
|
I dunno, maybe someone can tell me? I just feel like I ought to have something on them. They're in my garage/shop.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 07:36
|
|
|
Bad Munki posted:I dunno, maybe someone can tell me? I just feel like I ought to have something on them. They're in my garage/shop. http://www.wireguards.com/
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 09:39
|
|
|
Bad Munki posted:I need that but for a 4' fluorescent fixture...preferably something that can be mounted I guess on the sheetrock? I saw one product on the web with a 5" width and 4" depth that I think would work, it seems to be the same thing sold pretty much everywhere, but I can't really tell how it actually mounts. Or, for $20, you could just get a new fixture. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 16:36
|
|
|
Three-Phase posted:So I take it the wire was loose?
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 21:56
|
|
|
Hazed_blue posted:I think there must have been some sort of internal failure going on, because the wires were not loose at all. I was chatting with my father on this, and his comment was "Backstab outlets are awful, I don't know how they ever thought that was a good design..." and so forth.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 02:37
|
|
|
Three-Phase posted:I was chatting with my father on this, and his comment was "Backstab outlets are awful, I don't know how they ever thought that was a good design..." and so forth. Yeah, we don't allow them on our jobs, they're pieces of poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 02:49
|
|
|
backstab is great if you're building mcmansions and tract housing in a boom economy with 50c outlets, but a loving travesty if you're anyone else. I actually do like the back-wire screw terminal ones I've been getting recently - straight stripped wire goes into a hole or under a clamping plate on the side from the back, tighten the screw, done. No bending the wire into a loop and yet the connection is still good and solid.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 02:50
|
|
|
Bad Munki posted:I need that but for a 4' fluorescent fixture...preferably something that can be mounted I guess on the sheetrock? I saw one product on the web with a 5" width and 4" depth that I think would work, it seems to be the same thing sold pretty much everywhere, but I can't really tell how it actually mounts. Those cages just bend and fit around the fixture. The clips are when the fixture is suspended as in a warehouse; then they fit in little slots in the fixture. Tube guards are also OK, but are subject to hazing over time. I prefer the wire guards. They're easy to slip on, prevent you from hitting the lamp with anything other than a broom, and will still fall off/bend if you hit it with enough force that it'd rip the fixture out of the ceiling. Our supply house also has five-packs for about $20, so definitely cheaper than a whole new fixture. Speaking of which. Everyone doing electrical work should call up local electrical supply houses before hitting Lowes or Home Depot or whatever. A lot of the time, they're more expensive, but for some items, they can be super cheap. $9 fluorescent ballasts, $1 4" square metal boxes, etc. They'll also usually have better prices for cut-to-length wire (like 1/0 aluminum UF, that type of thing).
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 05:44
|
|
|
babyeatingpsychopath posted:By "gray plastic tubing" do you mean PVC conduit or something else? How often do I need to strap the conduit to the wall? (All plastic)
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 16:24
|
|
|
XmasGiftFromWife posted:How often do I need to strap the conduit to the wall? (All plastic) Within 3' of the box and no more than every 3' thereafter (352.30(A) and (B)). If you're using one-hole straps, get the next size larger if all they have are EMT, or the same size for rigid. The strap will say 3/4" EMT or 1/2" RIGID on it somewhere. Either one is acceptable for 1/2" PVC. Instead of "RIGID" it may say "IMC," "RMC," or "HW." If you don't see any of that, just make sure the strap clips over the conduit snugly, but not so snugly that you have to grotesquely bend anything. babyeatingpsychopath fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jan 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 21:45
|
|
|
Papercut posted:It depends, see NEC 312.8 for the requirements you have to meet to be allowed to splice the branch circuits inside the panel enclosure. I think I was wrong on this, looking up something else I noticed this note in Chapter 9: quote:Where conduit or tubing nipples having a maximum length not to exceed 24" are installed between boxes, cabinets, and similar enclosures, the nipples shall be permitted to be filled to 60% of their total cross-sectional area, and 310.15(B)(3)(a) adjustment factors need not apply to this condition.
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 20:02
|
|
|
About a month ago, I had my Christmas lights plugged into a GFCI outlet on my porch. It rained heavily, and something tripped the GFCI. Good, that is what is supposed to happen. But this also tripped the GFCI outlets in my bathroom. And there is also what appears to be a GFCI breaker in my breaker box. Is this normal? Other weird question, not exactly electricity - I have cable TV jacks in my walls, but they're probably 30 years old. I would like to use this existing infrastructure if possible, but I don't know how to find the source. I'm in a first floor condo, so no basement or crawl space to follow wires around. Any ideas?
|
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 21:33
|
|
|
FogHelmut posted:About a month ago, I had my Christmas lights plugged into a GFCI outlet on my porch. It rained heavily, and something tripped the GFCI. Good, that is what is supposed to happen. But this also tripped the GFCI outlets in my bathroom. And there is also what appears to be a GFCI breaker in my breaker box. Is this normal? Huh? Are your bathroom and porch on the same circuit? GFCI breakers are normal... unless your current GFCI circuit confusion is also on this GFCI breaker. GFCI breakers are normally used for water-based appliances like dishwashers where it would be a pain in the rear end to pull out of the cabinet to reach the reset button on the outlet face. They're also used for 3-prong retrofits. Electricians also handle low voltage and not just installers/servicemen, but electricians typically only handle low voltage when the walls are open during build-outs or renovations. Coax in a condo can be weird. Either the installer back in the day crammed a splitter in the box and ran a run from there to the next box to splice again, and so on; or each box is a home run to the demarc point for your building. My guess would be the first option though. The way to find out is to take off every coax faceplate and check out what's behind it. Also, are all of your coax outlets on exterior walls? kid sinister fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Jan 29, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 29, 2013 21:46
|
|
|
Is it possible that an electrical transient tripped both GFCIs?
|
|
#
?
Jan 30, 2013 22:52
|
|
|
I have plans to rewire most of my house over time and one thing I'm considering is installing this wire duct in the basement. The main beam in the basement has probably a dozen wires coming and going and going to/from the walls above. I'd love to neaten it up. Any code issues with this, or better ideas? It's not terribly cheap at ~20-30 for 6'. http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-wire-duct/=lantoh
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2013 02:52
|
|
|
asdf32 posted:I have plans to rewire most of my house over time and one thing I'm considering is installing this wire duct in the basement. The main beam in the basement has probably a dozen wires coming and going and going to/from the walls above. I'd love to neaten it up. That's "nonmetallic wireway" and Article 378 deals with it. Big takeaways: no more than 20% fill by area, it counts as a raceway so you have to derate your conductors, and make sure you follow the manufacturer's installation instructions. I like cable stackers like these. They space the cables by design so you don't have to derate anything.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2013 03:11
|
|
|
asdf32 posted:I have plans to rewire most of my house over time and one thing I'm considering is installing this wire duct in the basement. The main beam in the basement has probably a dozen wires coming and going and going to/from the walls above. I'd love to neaten it up. I've worked on equipment that uses that type of race. When you install the cover, you have to snap in each finger individually, and the fingers like to break off all over the place. Those clips look like a better idea.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2013 14:22
|
|
|
Panduit raceway like that is really intended more for LV wiring in an enclosure or on machinery what have you than what you're using it for. The trick to it is to get the top piece to catch all the fingers on one side by lying it perpendicular to the mounting point, then press up and rotate so you get most of the tabs in one shot.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2013 14:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 11:17 |
|
|
Tim Thomas posted:Panduit raceway like that is really intended more for LV wiring in an enclosure or on machinery what have you than what you're using it for. Ah, Panduit. A staple of modern cabinet design. It's great for segregating signals in a cabinet too - like you can have sections for small signals (0-10V, 4-20mA) and other sections for 120V I/O. Fun fact: Unless you're delivering a cabinet to a customer, it seems like nine times out of ten a system is installed with Panduit covers, then the covers come off to do modifications or troubleshooting, and are never replaced. They're just such bastards to get back on the channel. Especially when you have a channel packed with a hundred wires. Still makes life a lot more manageable than really old cabinets where wires were bundled together in massive looms. Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Feb 2, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2013 15:25
|
|