|
Are the ICE authored books any good then? Malazan is one of my favourite fantasy series and I'd rather not taint my memory by reading ICE's efforts if they're too terrible.
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2013 11:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 17:18 |
|
|
They aren't as good as Erikson but they are no worse than your standard fantasy fare. Quality varies, most people here would say Night of Knives is the worst and Orb Scepter Throne the best. I just finished Blood and Bone and thought it good. The only ICE I haven't read NoK because everyone here was ragging on it. If you like the Malazan world then I would say go for it. In saying that I just started Forge of Darkness and goddamn Erikson is on a whole other level.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2013 12:33
|
|
|
dishwasherlove posted:They aren't as good as Erikson but they are no worse than your standard fantasy fare. Quality varies, most people here would say Night of Knives is the worst and Orb Scepter Throne the best. I just finished Blood and Bone and thought it good. The only ICE I haven't read NoK because everyone here was ragging on it. If you like the Malazan world then I would say go for it. In saying that I just started Forge of Darkness and goddamn Erikson is on a whole other level. Cool, I'll give it a go but amazon only seems to stock books 4 and 5 in Kindle version 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2013 13:24
|
|
|
WastedJoker posted:Cool, I'll give it a go but amazon only seems to stock books 4 and 5 in Kindle version ICE's books do follow a timeline and have some exclusive characters; Return of the Crimson guard is good, that's the one you should start with. Stonewielder is bland I thought but has some interesting history about Korel and the Stormriders. ICE's books tie in with themselves as well with the main series so it isn't the best to skip any, except Night of Knives. NoK is awful, you already know most of the story from the main series, and maybe you miss out on one character or two ICE introduces that show up in his other books but it can be safely skipped. After Stonewielder is Orb, Scepter, Throne and it was really good, but I've heard mixed things about Blood and Bone but that wont be released here in the USA for months.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2013 18:09
|
|
|
dishwasherlove posted:They aren't as good as Erikson but they are no worse than your standard fantasy fare. Quality varies, most people here would say Night of Knives is the worst and Orb Scepter Throne the best. I just finished Blood and Bone and thought it good. The only ICE I haven't read NoK because everyone here was ragging on it. If you like the Malazan world then I would say go for it. In saying that I just started Forge of Darkness and goddamn Erikson is on a whole other level. True. The main reason for reading Esslemont is to get the back history of different characters and factions that appear in the main series. The difference in class between Erikson and Esslemont is quite noticeable. Let's just hope that Esslemont don't gently caress up Assail, I've been waiting for that story since Memories of Ice.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2013 14:52
|
|
|
Erikson has ruined epic fantasy novels for me. I've recently been reading The Dark That Comes Before by R. Scott Bakker. It's a good book, nicely epic and with a unique world. But after Erikson...it just feels very one dimensional. There is only one major plotline and most characters are largely unimportant. Even the various geographical locations seem pretty unimportant. The difference between two states rather than two continents. Erikson! 
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 22:52
|
|
|
I had a bit of a break before I picked up Reaper's Gate, so MT seems like forever ago. I'm having problems remember some details about the Errant. What kind of God is he? I remember vaguely at the end of Midnight Tide during the final scenes just sort of watching events unfold and being smug about it. That and people basically substituting his name in for Hood in cursing (because nothing dies there?) but that's about it. Or is a lot of that stuff intentionally vague at this time? It's hard to tell with these books sometimes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2013 23:34
|
|
|
Robot Danger posted:I had a bit of a break before I picked up Reaper's Gate, so MT seems like forever ago. I'm having problems remember some details about the Errant. What kind of God is he? I remember vaguely at the end of Midnight Tide during the final scenes just sort of watching events unfold and being smug about it. That and people basically substituting his name in for Hood in cursing (because nothing dies there?) but that's about it. Or is a lot of that stuff intentionally vague at this time? The Errant is an Elder god and the Mayer of the Holds. The way that I like to think of him it's a mix between the twins (Oponn) and the Master of the Deck. He controls fates and nudges people in certain directions to take certain actions. People in Lether die, but I don't know what Hold they go to, or if they go to Hood's realm. I don't even know if it's specifically stated what happens when people in Lether die.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 00:17
|
|
|
Lether basicallly has a poo poo ton of ghosts from tiste vs. k'chain times up to the current day of the books. as all the ice and poo poo melts, hood/death is better able to reassert control of dead dudes
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 01:48
|
|
|
I'm really glad I decided to reread the series before trying to read Toll the Hounds again. I skipped Gardens of the Moon since for some reason that sticks clearest in my memory even though I read it so long ago. I'm picking up all sorts of things you don't get first time around though and probably wouldn't remember. I'm really struggling not to read the wiki for things I half remember that have come up in case I spoil anything in the future though. Its just going to be April probably by the time I've finished the series. An example of a half memory was combining the end of Deadhouse Gates for Kalam and what happens in the Bonehunters. Now I'm really curious as to what happens in the Bonehunters since I don't remember
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2013 21:44
|
|
|
pakman posted:The Errant is an Elder god and the Mayer of the Holds. The way that I like to think of him it's a mix between the twins (Oponn) and the Master of the Deck. He controls fates and nudges people in certain directions to take certain actions. People in Lether die, but I don't know what Hold they go to, or if they go to Hood's realm. I don't even know if it's specifically stated what happens when people in Lether die. I was really far off on my timeline as far as when Midnight Tides took place. I thought it was more of a case of Lether just being so far in the past more than that it just more of a backwater place in the world. Kind of like a long Dark Age period following fall of the First Empire. It didn't seem too strange considering the Tiste races living so long to have Trull in the other books. Then Icarium just stepped off the boat and blew my mind. I had it in my mind that everything that happened in Midnight Tides was thousands of years before Gardens on the Moon. I feel quite stupid.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2013 00:34
|
|
|
Robot Danger posted:I was really far off on my timeline as far as when Midnight Tides took place. I thought it was more of a case of Lether just being so far in the past more than that it just more of a backwater place in the world. Kind of like a long Dark Age period following fall of the First Empire. It didn't seem too strange considering the Tiste races living so long to have Trull in the other books. Don't. It's a plot point that the Nascent fucks hard with Trull's perception of time
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2013 01:02
|
|
|
Robot Danger posted:I was really far off on my timeline as far as when Midnight Tides took place. I thought it was more of a case of Lether just being so far in the past more than that it just more of a backwater place in the world. Kind of like a long Dark Age period following fall of the First Empire. It didn't seem too strange considering the Tiste races living so long to have Trull in the other books. Yeah, don't feel bad at all. I thought exactly the same thing when I first read the book as well. I was very confused when all the characters started to interact.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2013 17:16
|
|
|
How is Forge of Darkness? I've been away from the Malazan universe since finishing TCG since I didn't really like ICE's writing. How does it compare to the original series?
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2013 00:28
|
|
|
Forge of Darkness is really really good but also really really different because it's structured differently than most Malazan books.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2013 00:45
|
|
|
For every question answered, another two appear. Can't wait for the next two books in the trilogy, although the Tiste are depressing as hell.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2013 04:08
|
|
|
Ochowie posted:How is Forge of Darkness? I've been away from the Malazan universe since finishing TCG since I didn't really like ICE's writing. How does it compare to the original series? If you love the Malazan universe, Forge of Darkness is amazing. I loved it. Not much action but man does it make you look at the series differently.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2013 05:26
|
|
|
Robot Danger posted:
When does this happen? I just finished it and have no recollection of this. Maybe i glossed over it somehow.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2013 02:11
|
|
|
pakman posted:Yeah, don't feel bad at all. I thought exactly the same thing when I first read the book as well. I was very confused when all the characters started to interact. One of the things I've noticed in the books is that it's really, really hard to get a feel for the size and character of the world. I just found this map that helps me visualize it a lot better: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_SniTwfm5BwE/S_1KGMFTFpI/AAAAAAAACbo/nwNnJnEtBYg/s1600/Malazan+Book+of+the+Fallen+Cool+Map.jpg
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2013 02:26
|
|
|
gregarious Ted posted:When does this happen? I just finished it and have no recollection of this. Maybe i glossed over it somehow.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2013 12:05
|
|
|
So after reading Stonewielder, I'm re-reading (well, listening to this time, whatevs) Memories of Ice. Hit the quote at the start of Book 3. Mind = blown.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2013 16:42
|
|
|
dwarf74 posted:So after reading Stonewielder, I'm re-reading (well, listening to this time, whatevs) Memories of Ice. Hit the quote at the start of Book 3. Mind = blown. Quote that quote! I don't have MoI and now I'm all curious.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2013 21:00
|
|
|
It's probably that bit about Heboric.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2013 21:20
|
|
|
Leospeare posted:Quote that quote! I don't have MoI and now I'm all curious. quote:The Last Mortal Sword of Fener’s Reve was Fanald of Cawn Vor, who was killed in the Chaining. The last Boar-cloaked Destriant was Ipshank of Korelri, who vanished during the Last Flight of Manask on the Stratem Icefields. Another waited to claim that title, but was cast out from the temple before it came to him, and that man’s name has been stricken from all records. It is known, however, that he was from Unta; that he had begun his days as a cutpurse living on its foul streets, and that his casting out from the temple was marked by the singular punishment of Fener’s Reve . . . ...basically, it puts those two in better context w/ Heboric and displays a lot more extensive foreshadowing than I'd suspected.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2013 21:26
|
|
|
I really wish the quotes would come back instead of the poetry that I now slip over at the beginning of every chapter.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2013 00:29
|
|
|
Finished Toll the Hounds, and overall wasn't too impressed by it. It wasn't as much of a slog for me as Midnight Tides was, but was definitely not one of my favorites. I think what really killed it for me was the Kruppe narration. His dialogue is ok, and sometimes pretty funny. But having to go through pages of it at a time is... difficult.. So far the next book is off to a better start for me though. Questions about the end: Why did Hood have to take physical form and get killed by Rake to get sucked into Dragnipur, yet his army could just waltz right in? Or did he somehow take them all with him? And uh... what the heck was up with the moon exploding? Did the hounds of light cause that? Or should I file it away in the "maybe it will make sense later" bin? Speaking of which, should I know by this point what was up with Heboric and the giant green statues? I vaguely remember something about them coming from wherever the Crippled God came from, but other than that I have no idea how they're supposed to tie in to things, or what's up with the people inside them, or how touching the statue gave Heboric hands, or anything really. Did I overlook something, or does it just not get explained until later?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2013 08:33
|
|
|
I'm about half way through Forge of Darkness, and I've got to say, I love that all of these forgettable minor Tiste characters are going to actually be memorable on my next readthrough of the ten book series. I feel like it's going to really add a dimension to it, and make their arcs meaningful. CORN NOG posted:Speaking of which, should I know by this point what was up with Heboric and the giant green statues? I vaguely remember something about them coming from wherever the Crippled God came from, but other than that I have no idea how they're supposed to tie in to things, or what's up with the people inside them, or how touching the statue gave Heboric hands, or anything really. Did I overlook something, or does it just not get explained until later? I don't remember where the explanations are, so this might be a spoiler for you, but my understanding was something like those are the Crippled God's worshippers from his own world, coming to try and save him. When he touched the buried statue Heboric accidentally triggered them to come looking for him in greater numbers. That's probably as far as I can go, that plotline is still going in book 10. Now that I think about it, I've never read a really good explanation of the entire Heboric/Statues/Fener/Ghost Hands plotline. It'd be cool if somebody with a few more rereads under their belt attempted one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2013 12:05
|
|
|
02-6611-0142-1 posted:
I never really understood this one either. I thought it would end up playing a much larger part in the overall story arc and then it just kind of fizzled. Or at least, it seemed to and I missed some crucial element.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2013 20:44
|
|
|
CORN NOG posted:Finished Toll the Hounds, and overall wasn't too impressed by it. It wasn't as much of a slog for me as Midnight Tides was, but was definitely not one of my favorites.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2013 23:26
|
|
|
I'm onto House of Chains now. How long is the Karsa Orlong stuff? Before the story starts proper that is. I remember most of it and its fairly basic so a bit dull on the reread. I'm not going to skip it but wondering how much longer I have to go. They just had the Rathyd village bit and my kindle has it at 5%.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 00:25
|
|
|
Scott Bakula posted:I'm onto House of Chains now. How long is the Karsa Orlong stuff? Before the story starts proper that is. I remember most of it and its fairly basic so a bit dull on the reread. I'm not going to skip it but wondering how much longer I have to go. They just had the Rathyd village bit and my kindle has it at 5%. Karsa is one of the best characters in the series. He starts off pretty bad in HoC but it gets better. Edit: Just read your post properly; the Karsa chapters are pretty constant throughout the novel, but it gets better, reading wise. zzttaozia fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Jan 27, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 00:29
|
|
|
I guess I meant, how long before its not just Karsa?
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 00:50
|
|
|
I think the story opens back up again once you hit Part 2.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 00:55
|
|
|
Scott Bakula posted:I guess I meant, how long before its not just Karsa? The Karsa part takes up the first fourth/fifth or so (third at most) . I think it's just Book 1 of HoC. Sorry that's still a huge range but it's been a while.
|
|
#
?
Jan 27, 2013 00:57
|
|
|
Finally finished my six month long reread-everything-then-read-TCG-athon.  I really thought the whole epic stuff wasn't as good as the more basic military fantasy from the start of the series. That, and there's something that bugs me: There doesn't seem to be any kind of gradual transition from "the Crippled God is the BBEG" to "TCG is actually super nice and on the good guys' side." (book 10 spoilers) It felt like it came completely out of left field for me, and my reread included all of ICE's stuff as well. Did I miss something blindingly obvious or was it really as odd as it seems to me? e; actually, what the hell happened to the whole Skinner stealing the Blessed Lady's box thing and "usurping" TCG's power (Stonewielder spoiler) that gets mentioned towards the end of The Crippled God, that seems to have gone absolutely nowhere. It seems like it would make a lot more sense if the TCG incarnation that gives Rhulad the sword and has the Unbound acting like dicks originally is a completely separate thing from the Crippled God's heart (which, in symbolism 101, is obviously going to be the gentle and kind part of him) (book 10 spoiler) but I can't think of anything at all in the books that makes this intended/true. It certainly seems like a possibility given that the Lady and the Heart behave completely differently (book 10/Stonewielder), but again, I have no evidence whatsoever to support this. Hopefully I just missed something at some point. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jan 28, 2013 |
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 01:49
|
|
|
Got a question, did they ever actually resolve what happened to Leoman and Whiskeyjacks sister/cousin or whatever when they entered that portal and the Queen of Dreams froze them in time there, or was that meant to be the whole point? That they didn't get away and have now been imprisoned by her
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 10:48
|
|
|
Chucullinn posted:Got a question, did they ever actually resolve what happened to Leoman and Whiskeyjacks sister/cousin or whatever when they entered that portal and the Queen of Dreams froze them in time there, or was that meant to be the whole point? That they didn't get away and have now been imprisoned by her read orb, sceptre, throne
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 11:19
|
|
|
I finished Dust of Dreams last night. I really don't understand why Tool is now on a mission to kill absolutely everyone. Is it because the Senan did nothing after he was "murdered" or was it because Toc denied him entry to the warren where Udinaas was staying with the Imass? At the end when the sky keep was made into a house of the Azath, was it even an Azath? I know that Icarium made a finnest of the Errant's eye given to him by Feather Witch (somehow). And then when Sinn and Grub appeared at the end by Stormy and Gesler, I assume they were using the power of the new warrens that Icarium has created to defeat the Nu'ruhk sky keeps. Are these new warrens more powerful than the ones of K'rul? Or are they just an imposition of a new order upon the old ones? I am really confused after reading this book, but I'm assuming that most of the big story points are wrapped up in The Crippled God, and what happened to the Bonehunters and the Letherii when fighting the Nu'ruhk Che'Malle. This is really the first time where I really have no idea what is going on right now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 20:44
|
|
|
Blood and Bone ties up a bit more of the fragments of Crippled God. Although I don't remember a resolution.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 22:29
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 17:18 |
|
|
I love that even people who have read the entire series can post here about events and characters and I, another person who has read the entire series, can have no loving idea what they're talking about nor be able to adequately answer questions.
|
|
#
?
Jan 28, 2013 23:09
|
|