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Nutsngum posted:items would be sold for a hell of a lot more then the cost it took to make them originally. This is also not true!
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Jan 29, 2013 11:55
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The basis for the pinko stance is that there is very little antagonism between the 'fascist' Dredd and the 'liberal' Anderson. They are literally partners in a team, working great together. Not only do I agree with this, I'd go even further and claim that Anderson is probably even superior to Dredd, in that she is able to further rationalise an otherwise-wasteful system of justice. It's even pretty blatant that her mental probe is supposed to be a 'clean' form of torture, which subjects its victim to impossible pain but leaves no mark on them or upsets its practitioner (what our good buddy Zizek would probably call 'decaffinated torture'). My thinking specifically was of liberals who respond to criticism of institutions like the police or military by saying, effectively, 'why don't you join them and be the change you want to see?' as if the problem were not a systematic one but one of individual 'good guys' joining these institutions and exercising their own 'humanitarian' judgement -- almost like the inverse of this wonderful post by Cream_Filling far earlier in the thread: Cream_Filling posted:Rogue cop films, as typified by the Dirty Harry films, are to me a classic part of the Thatcher/Reagan-era anti-government government narrative [...] A way to help sugar and normalize the double-think required to get people to accept an anti-government political stance even though the government manages to do a lot of things for people quite successfully. The key is this idea of a rogue who is simultaneously of the government and yet heroically defying it at the same time. As distinct from past cowboys and vigilantes that were fundamentally lawless and outside the system. The idea -- and this links back to my post in general chat -- is in absolutely ridiculous terms something like 'if there are more Dredds than Andersons, the system is fascist, and if there are more Andersons than Dredds it's liberal.'
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Jan 29, 2013 13:04
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jabby posted:The '95 film did have a few shining moments of Dredd-ness despite the overall story being a massive handicap. I enjoyed watching Dredd stride confidently into gunfire having determined he was outside the lethal range and announce to two entire blocks they were all under arrest. Plus the scene of him teaching at the academy could have been done word-for-word by Karl Urban's Dredd and it still would have worked. Except he's wrong because the guys shooting just gunned down random people at street level in the previous scene.
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Jan 29, 2013 13:13
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massive spider posted:Except he's wrong because the guys shooting just gunned down random people at street level in the previous scene. Yeah that scene kind of ruins it. I tell myself they ran out of the 'good' ammo while Dredd was on the way.
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Jan 29, 2013 14:32
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echoplex posted:This is also not true! 
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Jan 29, 2013 14:41
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TheJoker138 posted:I wonder if now that we see the items actually being sold all this "this means for sure there's no sequel" talk will stop. I doubt they were going to need that picture of the girl with her dead husband and baby in a sequel, for some reason. Wait, what, because the props are being sold off the people saying there's not going to be a sequel are wrong? What?
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Jan 29, 2013 14:51
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There's a pretty big business in collecting props from movies. Hell, they sold everything from Iron Man and Iron Man 2, the Avengers movie, the Spiderman movies, pretty much any and all movies you can think of. Saying no sequel is getting made because they are selling props is just flat out wrong. They might not make a sequel, but the fact they are selling off stuff doesn't matter either way. Look at how many different movies the Starship Troopers armor shows up in, after they were sold and and parted off.
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Jan 29, 2013 15:04
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:They might not make a sequel, but the fact they are selling off stuff doesn't matter either way. Look at how many different movies the Starship Troopers armor shows up in, after they were sold and and parted off. Actually, they show up in other Fox productions because Fox didn't sell them.
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Jan 29, 2013 15:21
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massive spider posted:Except he's wrong because the guys shooting just gunned down random people at street level in the previous scene. I prefer to think of it as Dredd giving zero fucks about the risk because he is the Law.
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Jan 29, 2013 16:13
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Jedit posted:I prefer to think of it as Dredd giving zero fucks about the risk because he is the Law. Maybe its out of lethal range for a dude in justice department body armour, which is still lethal range for unarmored average Joe public.
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Jan 29, 2013 18:38
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Grab Meatcastle posted:Maybe its out of lethal range for a dude in justice department body armour, which is still lethal range for unarmored average Joe public.
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Jan 29, 2013 19:13
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jabby posted:Yeah that scene kind of ruins it. I tell myself they ran out of the 'good' ammo while Dredd was on the way. But it does lead to the fantastic line of "40 floors! That would be suicide!" "Maybe, but it's legal."
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Jan 29, 2013 19:33
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Sinding Johansson posted:After seeing this movie I get the distinct impression that the conflict between Ma-Ma and the Judges was more like a war than a police intervention. Because of its insignificance and because of Mega City’s size, Peachtree is essentially autonomous. I think this film depicts a battle between two totalitarian societies, the Fascist Mega City and the State-Capitalist Peachtree. Yep, pretty much this. There's something subtle in there about the law, though, as represented by Dredd passing Anderson. A razor thin margin of justification.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:07
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:They might not make a sequel, but the fact they are selling off stuff doesn't matter either way. Look at how many different movies the Starship Troopers armor shows up in, after they were sold and and parted off. Yeah it was hilarious recognizing the same sets and infantry body armor in the Firefly movie.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:22
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They'd better auction off that guy's wig. I need to own it.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:48
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They added a Lawmaster to the auction. Not street legal sadly.
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Jan 29, 2013 21:56
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marktheando posted:They added a Lawmaster to the auction. Not street legal sadly. I guess it's not The Law. Some of those costumes are lame. One of them is just a polo shirt and track pants! (Almost everything else is cool though)
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Jan 29, 2013 22:06
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Kegluneq posted:That was pretty much the stand-out-stupid scene in the movie for me at the time. Out of lethal range, even when they're pretty much directly above you? Good job Dredd! (After that, I read the comics and everything else sank in.) Every time I've seen the '95 Dredd I always thought he said "effective legal range", and then would kind of boggle at why they wasted the opportunity to have it be one of the charges Dredd brought them up on. Screw it, I like my version better.
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Jan 29, 2013 22:44
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etalian posted:Yeah it was hilarious recognizing the same sets and infantry body armor in the Firefly movie. I didn't see them used in Serenity, but they were used in the episode "The Train Job"
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Jan 29, 2013 23:17
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Snak posted:I didn't see them used in Serenity, but they were used in the episode "The Train Job" They re-used slightly modified body armor and also the starship sets from Starship Troopers for the Alliance scenes in order to save money.
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Jan 30, 2013 00:55
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Jonny Retro posted:Every time I've seen the '95 Dredd I always thought he said "effective legal range", and then would kind of boggle at why they wasted the opportunity to have it be one of the charges Dredd brought them up on. Having a maximum legal range which you can shoot sounds perfect for MegaCity One. Missed your target? That bullet better not go more than 200 metres, citizen.
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Jan 30, 2013 01:16
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sebmojo posted:Yep, pretty much this. My impression was that Anderson wasn't a particularly bad Judge by Dredd's standards anyway. I mean, presumably she wasn't going to pass the Judge's exam or whatever it's called because she wasn't tough enough to be a Judge. The events of the movie strongly disprove that though (she is pretty god drat tough). I don't think Dredd makes a moral decision about the nature of the law when he passes her. I kind of doubt the Dredd character is even capable of making moral decisions. He realizes that her methods might look more sanitized but are essentially the same in character. She still kills many (innocent) people and is willing to use torture to get the bad guy. She is there messing things up for the residents of Peachtree just as bad as Dredd is. She’s just a little less sadistic about doing it. Anderson leaves disillusioned because she realizes that her naive morality never had a place in the ranks of the Judges. I think Dredd realizes that Anderson’s real weapon isn’t her gun or her psychic powers, but her ability to put a human face on the monstrous actions of the Judges (think about how she and Dredd react and are reacted to by civilians).
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Jan 30, 2013 20:34
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Sinding Johansson posted:Anderson leaves disillusioned because she realizes that her naive morality never had a place in the ranks of the Judges. She still becomes a judge in the end though, so there clearly is a place for her.
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Jan 30, 2013 20:40
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Sinding Johansson posted:My impression was that Anderson wasn't a particularly bad Judge by Dredd's standards anyway. I mean, presumably she wasn't going to pass the Judge's exam or whatever it's called because she wasn't tough enough to be a Judge. The events of the movie strongly disprove that though (she is pretty god drat tough). The movie is Anderson's final exam. You don't get to be a Judge without leading a street patrol.
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Jan 30, 2013 20:48
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The point of Anderson's character is that while she superficially differs from Dredd, she's virtually identical to him. As mentioned above, her ability amounts to an inborn ability to perform surveillance and a natural capability for highly efficient but less obvious torture, and she fully believes in the same highly structured fascistic society as Dredd, she just justifies it with a dimly remembered childhood and some nonsense about "making a difference" where Dredd is without conflict and ideologically pure. Dredd is a kind of Overman archetype. He has created himself, he is the Law; he is free from morality, the Law is not morality, the Law is Order. Anderson's apparent disgust at the end is the realization of the breakdown of her ambiguous and ultimately hollow motivations. She will become like Dredd eventually. She'll come back, too, because she can't help it. She's just like him. Using these two characters, the film dismisses differences in ideology and demonstrates that the neoliberalconservative idea matrix that dominates modern American politics is an illusion disguising a fascist government (the fusion of the corporation and the state) that uses fascist methods (a surveillance state, militarized police, institutionalized violence, and "shock and awe" aka Blitzkrieg).
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Jan 30, 2013 20:55
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marktheando posted:She still becomes a judge in the end though, so there clearly is a place for her. Yes because the Judges are pretty amoral people. They don't care that she's a bleeding heart liberal because she kills just as well (maybe even better) than the rest of them. Besides, I think it's pretty clear she is rethinking her desire to be a Judge by the end of the movie. She walks away defeated. She accepts that she was disarmed [e: and so accepts she fails the test] but she isn't talking about losing her gun. She is talking about her loss of faith. Sinding Johansson fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 20:58
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Jedit posted:The movie is Anderson's final exam. You don't get to be a Judge without leading a street patrol. Dredd doesn't even want to take her out for patrol because her prior test scores were low. He doesn't believe she will pass at the start (or through most) of the film. VVV could this perhaps be a satirical movie?!? Sinding Johansson fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 21:02
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Sinding Johansson posted:Yes because the Judges are pretty amoral people. They don't care that she's a bleeding heart liberal because she kills just as well (maybe even better) than the rest of them. Besides, I think it's pretty clear she is rethinking her desire to be a Judge by the end of the movie. She walks away defeated. She accepts that she was disarmed but she isn't talking about her gun. She is talking about her loss of faith. I think people overstate her disillusion because of the scene where she gives Dredd her badge- the last shot of the movie is her riding off in full judge uniform right as Dredd's voiceover says judges are the only ones holding back the chaos.
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Jan 30, 2013 21:09
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Sinding Johansson posted:Yes because the Judges are pretty amoral people. They don't care that she's a bleeding heart liberal because she kills just as well (maybe even better) than the rest of them. Besides, I think it's pretty clear she is rethinking her desire to be a Judge by the end of the movie. She walks away defeated. She accepts that she was disarmed [e: and so accepts she fails the test] but she isn't talking about losing her gun. She is talking about her loss of faith. Nice! I think you're right, though I like that it leaves the ambiguity of whether Anderson will come back hanging.
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Jan 30, 2013 21:13
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I'm sticking with 'she's willing and able to put herself on the line in order to make a difference to the lives of innocents, and that's what makes her a judge'. It's what Dredd believes. It's what distinguishes her and Dredd from the corrupt judges. It's the deeper significance of the line "Are you ready?" All in all it's very similar to the satire of values in Starship Troopers; the willingless to sacrifice self for the greater good of the community (that just happens to be in an incredibly violence and fascistic way).
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Jan 30, 2013 21:17
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Sacrificing self to the good of the community is vital to fascism. The lone man standing alone is an important myth to the fascist, but the lone man is a unique hero, a Siegfried or a Hitler; you the good fascist are one of the faceless guys standing behind him, supporting him, one of the bundle of sticks tied around the handle of the axe to make it stronger. The individual is valued as the will or embodiment of the collective, not for his own sake, and only rare individuals are allowed to be more than just a stick (the leader, usually)
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Jan 30, 2013 21:27
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Thulsa Doom posted:Sacrificing self to the good of the community is vital to fascism. The lone man standing alone is an important myth to the fascist, but the lone man is a unique hero, a Siegfried or a Hitler; you the good fascist are one of the faceless guys standing behind him, supporting him, one of the bundle of sticks tied around the handle of the axe to make it stronger. The individual is valued as the will or embodiment of the collective, not for his own sake, and only rare individuals are allowed to be more than just a stick (the leader, usually) I know your intent is to make fascism sound terrible, but what is actually so terrible about people sacrificing self for the good of the community? Many parents do exactly that for the good of their community (their families). Also, if you have 500 leaders and no sticks, nothing will ever get accomplished. Alcholism Rocks fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 21:51
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Alcholism Rocks posted:I know your intent is to make fascism sound terrible, but what is actually so terrible about people sacrificing self for the good of the community? That's the point. The seduction of Fascism is that altruism is undeniably great and you should strive to be altruistic for the good of the community oh and by the way the good of the community involves purging dissidents/invading those guys over there.
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Jan 30, 2013 22:08
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Alcholism Rocks posted:I know your intent is to make fascism sound terrible, but what is actually so terrible about people sacrificing self for the good of the community? The propaganda is not the reality. "The community" is an illusory community based on otherization (racial or ethnic in reality, mutants and bugs in Dredd and Starship Troopers) and exists as a construct to serve the elite. The seduction is convenience. You don't have to think, you don't have to worry. It offers people a willing choice to pretend that they're building their future and preserving or returning to their ideal society when they're just empowering the rich and directing their anger at their problems against an Other. Dredd's world has eliminated jury duty, after all, hasn't it?
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Jan 30, 2013 22:15
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Thulsa Doom posted:Dredd's world has eliminated jury duty, after all, hasn't it? I thought the idea of the jury was to present a forum where you were being judged by your peers. Judges are human, just like the people they are judging, right? Thulsa Doom posted:The propaganda is not the reality. "The community" is an illusory community based on otherization (racial or ethnic in reality, mutants and bugs in Dredd and Starship Troopers) and exists as a construct to serve the elite. The seduction is convenience. You don't have to think, you don't have to worry. It offers people a willing choice to pretend that they're building their future and preserving or returning to their ideal society when they're just empowering the rich and directing their anger at their problems against an Other. I don't know why that's described as fascism when that describes pretty much every human culture ever.
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Jan 30, 2013 22:19
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That's my point. Jury duty is a sometimes expensive and inconvenient pain in the rear end. Dredd's world is the consequence of all the stupid complaining and jokes you hear about how much jury duty sucks and we should get rid of all the lawyers. You end up with cops who summarily execute people. Only more often, and legally. 
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Jan 30, 2013 22:21
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Thulsa Doom posted:The propaganda is not the reality. "The community" is an illusory community based on otherization (racial or ethnic in reality, mutants and bugs in Dredd and Starship Troopers) and exists as a construct to serve the elite. The seduction is convenience. You don't have to think, you don't have to worry. It offers people a willing choice to pretend that they're building their future and preserving or returning to their ideal society when they're just empowering the rich and directing their anger at their problems against an Other. Whats interesting, though, is that the Judges don't really get anything from the current system. They have power over the citizens of MC1, but they mainly live near monk-like lives, patrolling the streets nearly 24 hrs a day. Even the Chief Judge spends all their time at work. The 'elite' aren't living lives that are enviable. They even punish their own far worse than they do the citizens (short of death of course).
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Jan 30, 2013 22:26
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DocHorror posted:Whats interesting, though, is that the Judges don't really get anything from the current system. They have power over the citizens of MC1, but they mainly live near monk-like lives, patrolling the streets nearly 24 hrs a day. Even the Chief Judge spends all their time at work. The 'elite' aren't living lives that are enviable. They even punish their own far worse than they do the citizens (short of death of course). I was under the impression that The Long Walk was a death sentence. For most Judges... Thulsa Doom posted:That's my point. Jury duty is a sometimes expensive and inconvenient pain in the rear end. Dredd's world is the consequence of all the stupid complaining and jokes you hear about how much jury duty sucks and we should get rid of all the lawyers. You end up with cops who summarily execute people. I thought it was amusing that there was even a reference to that sort of thing in Back to the Future 2, where Doc mentions how Marty Jr was convicted in 2 hours due to there being no lawyers. It did seem a little weird how the cops didn't seem even slightly perturbed about how (or even why) Jennifer was roofied, though. That was probably more a reference to how that sort of thing was perceived in the 80's, though. Young Jennifer was kinda dressed like a slut. Alcholism Rocks fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jan 30, 2013 |
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Jan 30, 2013 22:28
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Alcholism Rocks posted:I was under the impression that The Long Walk was a death sentence. For most Judges... The long walk is their reward for a lifetime of service. I was talking about them sending bad Judges to Titan.
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Jan 30, 2013 22:33
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DocHorror posted:Whats interesting, though, is that the Judges don't really get anything from the current system. They have power over the citizens of MC1, but they mainly live near monk-like lives, patrolling the streets nearly 24 hrs a day. Even the Chief Judge spends all their time at work. The 'elite' aren't living lives that are enviable. They even punish their own far worse than they do the citizens (short of death of course). Ironically, there are very few death sentence crimes (at least in the original comic). Dredd executes relatively few people - most are killed while resisting arrest.
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Jan 30, 2013 22:42
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