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Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Sundae posted:

Should I congratulate you on the post-doc, or offer condolences that you're going to be living in Florida?

Haha, everyone seems to be saying the Florida is terrible. I've decided that it's an adventure and that Florida can't be as bad as everyone says...

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Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
It'll certainly be an adventure. :)

In fairness, not all of Florida is a god-forsaken wasteland filled with a depressing combination of southern hicks and banished New England retirees. Just most of it.

(I am not being fair at all.)

gninjagnome
Apr 17, 2003

Sites been closed for last 3 days, maybe more. Currently running on minimal power from our cogen plant. Maybe I can get the week off!

TouchyMcFeely
Aug 21, 2006

High five! Hell yeah!

Being a CSE with parts shipping out of CT sucks right now. Our entire facility back east has been shut down since Monday and I can't get parts to fix downed customers.

Haven't been yelled at yet but this is going to be a brutal couple of weeks playing catch up.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Sundae like three months ago posted:

Dik Hz posted:


Could be that they have you in mind for a better position that they haven't requested through upper management yet, and are going to use the angle, "We already interviewed the perfect guy for this job" when they formally request it internally.

It's possible, I guess? It's in the EU, so whether they can do that with a US citizen or not is outside my experience. I haven't dealt with international hiring before.

Well holy poo poo. Call me the pessimist, I guess! They just contacted me back with a Senior Scientist position and want to know if I'm still interested in coming to Ireland.

:tviv:

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

Sundae posted:

Well holy poo poo. Call me the pessimist, I guess! They just contacted me back with a Senior Scientist position and want to know if I'm still interested in coming to Ireland.

:tviv:

That's awesome news! Is there much of a penalty for leaving your current job?

Solkanar512 fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Nov 1, 2012

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Depends when I leave. If I leave after Feb 27, no penalty. Before Feb 27, and it'll be anywhere from $7,700 to $16,000. I have to wait and see what they're looking for in terms of timing, as well as the other issues (relo, visas, salary, etc), but I'm just a teeny bit excited. :D

$7.7K would be the early departure penalty. $16K would be early-departure plus losing my bonus if I left before year-end bonus was paid out (which I think is mid-Feb). If you aren't an employee at time of payout, you don't get it.

Ideally, everything lines up for mid-March. :D

Sundae fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Nov 1, 2012

Appachai
Jul 6, 2011

Scientastic posted:

Haha, everyone seems to be saying the Florida is terrible. I've decided that it's an adventure and that Florida can't be as bad as everyone says...

Congrats on the postdoc. It's a really scientifically interesting place to be. Make sure you take advantage of it and do some skunk works projects.

The Anarthrous
Sep 10, 2007
Veni cafeae potandae causa
Hello lab rats!

On Friday I have a job interview for a 12 month entry-level lab tech job at Merck in NC. Does anyone have any advice? From what I've read, Merck mostly focuses on behavioral interviews.

I know what Sundae said about Merck earlier in the thread, but I got my BSc a year ago and the best job I've gotten since then is as a deli clerk in a local grocery. At this point I'll take whatever I can get.

gninjagnome
Apr 17, 2003

Look up STAR interviews. It's a pretty common behavioral interview model, and it's the one my company uses. I'm sure they will use that, or something very similar.

Main thing remember is they are looking for examples where you demonstrated a particular behavior. It should be pretty easy figure out what they are looking for - it's going to be things like working in a team, working independently, driving a project to completion, etc. Try and think through a couple of good examples for your self that can be adapted to these types of questions. I personally prefer examples from work/intern/research experience instead of school project work. Mainly because being assigned to work with a slacker or something is really cliche, and hard to make compelling.

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

gninjagnome posted:

Look up STAR interviews. It's a pretty common behavioral interview model, and it's the one my company uses. I'm sure they will use that, or something very similar.

Main thing remember is they are looking for examples where you demonstrated a particular behavior. It should be pretty easy figure out what they are looking for - it's going to be things like working in a team, working independently, driving a project to completion, etc. Try and think through a couple of good examples for your self that can be adapted to these types of questions. I personally prefer examples from work/intern/research experience instead of school project work. Mainly because being assigned to work with a slacker or something is really cliche, and hard to make compelling.

Yes, this is great advice. Come in with a ton of stories where you faced some trouble of some kind, and remember the format:

What happened.
What did you do.
What was the result.

Even if you fell flat on your face, talk about how you learned and applied that lesson later on.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
So, I'd like some input from all you lovely science guys. :)

I may, in the next month, be getting a job offer in a Galway, Ireland. (No guarantees yet, but the last round of interviews went amazingly well, and they've actually called me back several times to talk about visa timings, moving details, etc. No offer yet, but that's fairly positive.)

The catch is the difference in payscale between the USA and Ireland. I'm probably looking at a $20,000 cut in pay to go out there, based on their pay-band. I'm currently getting $83.5K + variable bonus centered around 10%. The pay-band out there is EU45K to EU55K + 8% variable bonus. (Living in Indiana isn't worth the pay, by the way. Don't do it.)

Bold-Text on Con #3 is the big thing I'd like your insight on. :)

Advantages:
#1 - I'd love to go live in Galway for a few years. My wife would, too. Surprisingly affordable too, after the crash and all.
#2 - Senior scientist position, PhD + 3-5 level, for someone without only M.Eng+5. Nice experience boost.
#3 - Gets me out of manufacturing and back into R&D. I hate manufacturing.
#4 - I'd get holidays again, particularly Christmas. Could actually fly home to NY and see my family. (My current job explicitly denies vacation time at Christmas, Thanksgiving, and New Year due to shutdown work. I get the day of for XMas and Thanksgiving, but must be here the days before and after. Can't fly back to see my family in one day.)

Cons:
#1 - Massively lower salary.
#2 - Higher taxes (a little; it's really not that bad).
#3 - Reduced bargaining position if I end up coming back after a few years


How true is #3 these days? It seems to me that most of the major pharma companies who would actually employ me all use pay-banding now. I might fall lower in a given pay-band because of my reduced wages, but it's not like they're going to say "oh, well he's a poorly-paid senior scientist, so let's call him an associate scientist and save money!" If a senior scientist at PFE makes $95K-120K, I'd still get $95K hiring in, even if I was only making $60K before, right?

Or would I?

What thinks the lab-rat thread about potential salary ramifications should my wife and I decide to come back to the states after 2-3 years?

iloverice
Feb 19, 2007

future tv ninja
Salary bargaining position only matters if you are applying for a position in a company you have previously worked in (and even it is less effective since you should have come back with more experience, making you worth more). Companies cannot call up your past employers and ask what they paid you when you were employed. I, personally, would not reveal my current salary in negotiations unless a job offer was contingent on giving them a number... and then I would lie. I don't think con #3 is a concern. I have never seen it be the case in the past. Companies should, and will, value you based off your education/experience and place you appropriately in their already established salary ranges.

As someone who has only worked in the US, I would totally go for the job. I value travel very highly in my life priorities and this would enable foreign travel big time. Also while I've worked with the EU before, its always as a secondary governing factor over development. The FDA is just more important here. I think that having a more intimate understanding of EU guidelines would boost your long-term value if you ever return to the US.

Do it! I doubt you will regret it and it is kind of a rare opportunity!

Pain of Mind
Jul 10, 2004
You are receiving this broadcast as a dream...We are transmitting from the year one nine... nine nine ...You are receiving this broadcast in order t

iloverice posted:

Companies cannot call up your past employers and ask what they paid you when you were employed.

Are you sure about that? I received a copy of my most recent background check when I was hired for my current position, and it had my previous pay listed. The page in the background check had my reported pay that I gave them, and then right next to it was my actual pay down to the penny. I have no idea if they received that information from tax info or directly from the company. Since it was a separate background check company, maybe they are allowed to do that?

I gave my salary accurately, but I wonder if I would have still received the position if I had lied about my previous pay, since I know a lot of people like to bump it up 10% or whatever to try and get a raise.

iloverice
Feb 19, 2007

future tv ninja
I'm pretty sure companies can't just call past employers and ask... but I completely forgot about background checks. If your employer reports your salary (they are supposed to but not all employers do so or do it accurately), then if someone ran a background check on you they would be able to see your past salaries.

This is done, however, for US government tax purposes only. So Sundae could still get away with it!

Edit: VVVV What in the :psyduck: I've never heard of that before. That is crazy.

iloverice fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Nov 27, 2012

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
My current and previous employers both will absolutely give salary info for former employees as well as whether they are "eligible for rehire" or not. My previous company actually has a dedicated, automated phone number specifically for it. You key in the employee's social security number, and it'll spit back your final pay rate and your termination status.

The Anarthrous
Sep 10, 2007
Veni cafeae potandae causa
Thank you for the advice gninjagnome and Solkanar512! That's much easier than what I was doing, which was looking up every possible question and thinking of an answer to them.

Sundae, good luck with your scary 1984 company.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

The Anarthrous posted:

Sundae, good luck with your scary 1984 company.

Honestly, the salary thing is pretty normal. I think pretty much every big pharma company (and most big companies in the USA regardless) will do that. My buddies in the defense industry have similar setups at their company.

My current company really isn't that bad as a company. What's bad is simply my department and the requirements of the job sucking for anyone who isn't from the area. If my family lived nearby, not being allowed to take vacation days from Dec 20-Jan 18 wouldn't be as big a deal, because I'd still get to see them on Christmas and if they let me go home on weekends. Same thing with 4th of July and Thanksgiving.

I'm not from this area. I don't have a friend or family member (well, excluding wife) within 800 miles of me. That's where it's going to hurt. It's fundamentally incompatible with how my family is set up, but I know a lot of the folks here are mostly fine with that. Especially given how much they pay for Indiana. Most people who work here are pleased as pie because where else, in the midwest, would a moderate to unskilled worker get these kinds of salaries? Where else can you get $65K in the midwest with an associate's degree? The highest degree in my department is my M.Eng degree. Everyone else is in their positions based on experience at the company. (I actually think there's a bit of ill will toward me from a few of my co-workers over that; I'm in my position because of education and previous position at another company, while they worked their way up the ranks. It's a fair complaint, frankly.)

Again though... I'm not from this area. They're not competing against midwestern firms for my services; they're competing against literally anyone anywhere, because I have nothing tying me down to the midwest. No family, no house, no history here (well, no history anywhere since this is the 23rd place I've lived), so why stay somewhere that I hate, working a job I hate, while not being able to see my family?

Sundae fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Nov 27, 2012

The Anarthrous
Sep 10, 2007
Veni cafeae potandae causa

Sundae posted:

[...] why stay somewhere that I hate, working a job I hate, while not being able to see my family?

I don't know if you needed any more assurance that you should take the job in Galway, but I have some for you.

Why do you want to be making the money that you're making? If the money is for your family's enjoyment, it doesn't make sense to be unhappy for large portions of your life (and absent for important times in your family life) just to get that money. If you're making the money for financial support in the future, 60k is plenty of money to raise a family.

My parents were in a similar situation. They made about 100k running a successful restaurant, which took up their holidays, weekends, and evenings. When I was 11 they sold the restaurant and got jobs that only took up their 9-5 weekdays, but made about 60k altogether. I don't know what your future plans are, but from the kid's perspective, I had a much better quality of life when my parents made 40k less but had free time and were able to come home without being worked to death.

That being said, I'm young and financially/professionally inexperienced, and I don't know important things that everyone else knows.

The Anarthrous posted:

things I said

Update: I got the job at Merck! The interview was 1/3 technical and 2/3 behavioral, and I can go into more details if any fellow noobs want to know more about the experience. I was hired through a staffing company contracted by Merck, so I think I also had someone advocating for me.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Congratulations!!

I actually also have an interview at Merck coming up. How did the research presentation work out for you? Were they expecting full in-depth technical stuff or more a "show us what you know about _____" sort of thing? Was it more informational format or confrontational?

Thank you for the other advice as well. :) Still mulling over it; just finished another round of tech interviews and received an official job description with an "are you still interested after reading this list of mandatory functions?" document, so I think the Galway wheels are turning.

quote:

That being said, I'm young and financially/professionally inexperienced, and I don't know important things that everyone else knows.

If I knew all the important things, I wouldn't be whining about my decidedly first-world problems on the BFC forum. :D I'm all ears for any type of input. :D (Also, I'm only in "experienced" roles by pure luck, by the way. I've got less than 5 years of experience and a master's degree. Why anyone hired me as a senior engineer is beyond me, as is why multiple companies are interviewing me for PhD+4-6 positions. I don't get it. I've got some publications, sure, but so do 30,000 unemployed PhD scientists. Why the interest in me? No idea.)

The Anarthrous
Sep 10, 2007
Veni cafeae potandae causa
Thank you! I didn't have to do a research presentation, but the job is entry-level quality assurance and pretty basic. The tech questions were simple, like "if you start up an HPLC and you don't get any peaks, what would be the first thing you checked?" The interviewers knew that I had only used an HPLC a handful of times a few years ago, and they were pretty nice about helping me with the questions.

Sundae posted:

I've got some publications, sure, but so do 30,000 unemployed PhD scientists. Why the interest in me? No idea.

There was a candidate before me that seemed better qualified for the job than I was. I'm pretty sure I was hired because I would cost them a lot less. I'm also sure that your 5 years of industry experience trumps a lot of PhD research.

Good luck with your Merck interview, but I'm hoping you get the Galway job!

Zenzirouj
Jun 10, 2004

What about you, thread?
You got any tricks?
If it makes any difference at all and you haven't already visited there, Galway is a really nice area and is just north of some of the more amazing things Ireland has to offer. Are they in the actual city or in the county?

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005

Zenzirouj posted:

If it makes any difference at all and you haven't already visited there, Galway is a really nice area and is just north of some of the more amazing things Ireland has to offer. Are they in the actual city or in the county?

I've spent a few months in Ireland, and my wife attended university at a school in Ballyvaghan for 1.5 years. I loved Galway, and she's practically giddy at the idea of going back there. :) We'd ideally be living in the city, but they're about 10-15 miles west of town out in the gaeltacht.

AOTKPTW
Nov 27, 2011

#nalPlE
I definitely feel like an 'outsider' reading through this thread (as I do at work) but I work in the UK for a large pharma company as a lab assistant in a QA Microbiology lab.

Although my duties generally just involve autoclaving, ordering stock and cleaning I do a little bit of environmental monitoring and have been told there are plans to move me into a testing role in the future (our lab does water testing, orals testing, sterility testing, endotoxin testing and ID's).

I enjoy it for the most part, the pays better than anything I've had before, and the idea of calling myself a QA scientist/microbiologist (when I hopefully become a tester) makes me a bit giddy!

ATP5G1
Jun 22, 2005
Fun Shoe
I have a question about how to handle applying to grad schools while applying to full-time research positions.

I have an interview coming up with a well-known research institute for a research assistant position. Entry level, only bachelor's degree required. I'm unemployed and would really like this job. I've also applied to enough grad schools that if many interview requests start coming in it will be difficult to explain the need for frequent absences in February/March. In the initial phone interview with the hiring manager they said they were looking for a relatively temporary position, 2-3 years, looking for someone who seeks to eventually move on in their education and not someone looking at a career. If I get into a school though I'll be gone by August or September. How do I approach this? Do I tell them during the in-person interview with the professor I'll be working under? Only if I'm hired? Get "sick" a lot (guessing this is the worst choice)? What have other people done? While my desired specialty isn't super-tight with this organization, the organization is big enough that I don't want to burn any bridges or piss people off.

I think I would be an excellent fit for this position, I have a good deal of research experience, would need minimal training, and a lot of passion for the work.

Wormy
Feb 1, 2009

AOTKPTW posted:

I definitely feel like an 'outsider' reading through this thread (as I do at work) but I work in the UK for a large pharma company as a lab assistant in a QA Microbiology lab.

Hi there fellow Pharma Micro buddy!

I work for a US pharma company in the Microbiology lab (we're considered QC rather than QA though), and I've run the gambit in my 8 years there...environmental testing, water and bioburden testing, microbial ID, and oversight of the process simulation program. The best part of my job is running bacterial samples or Id'ing molds, it feels like real lab work. Unfortunately, process simulations demand nearly all of my attention and I've gotten to the point where I absolutely dread dealing with them.

The pay isn't horrible, but for the amount of time I've been there and the fact that I'm expected to be a supervisor without the title or any real power I don't get paid nearly enough. The higher ups have flat out admitted that we're underpaid, but hey, why pay us more when they can grab some kids fresh out of college for even less?

Pain of Mind
Jul 10, 2004
You are receiving this broadcast as a dream...We are transmitting from the year one nine... nine nine ...You are receiving this broadcast in order t
All of these QC jobs sound horrible. Have you tried moving to research or something?

Appachai
Jul 6, 2011

ATP5G1 posted:

I have a question about how to handle applying to grad schools while applying to full-time research positions.

I have an interview coming up with a well-known research institute for a research assistant position. Entry level, only bachelor's degree required. I'm unemployed and would really like this job. I've also applied to enough grad schools that if many interview requests start coming in it will be difficult to explain the need for frequent absences in February/March. In the initial phone interview with the hiring manager they said they were looking for a relatively temporary position, 2-3 years, looking for someone who seeks to eventually move on in their education and not someone looking at a career. If I get into a school though I'll be gone by August or September. How do I approach this? Do I tell them during the in-person interview with the professor I'll be working under? Only if I'm hired? Get "sick" a lot (guessing this is the worst choice)? What have other people done? While my desired specialty isn't super-tight with this organization, the organization is big enough that I don't want to burn any bridges or piss people off.

I think I would be an excellent fit for this position, I have a good deal of research experience, would need minimal training, and a lot of passion for the work.

It's pretty much expected that any BA/BS level employee is going to leave to grad school at some point. Just tell them you have aspirations to go to grad school but you don't know when you will go. When the interviews come you can deal with your supervisor.

Wormy
Feb 1, 2009

Pain of Mind posted:

All of these QC jobs sound horrible. Have you tried moving to research or something?

I've only got a BS in biology...while I'd love to get into research I guess I'm afraid I'm underqualified. And I feel like I don't have a lot of options with the degree I have, as there aren't any positions in the field I could take without moving out of state/would have to take a paycut to start entry level doing anything else. There aren't really even any other pharma companies within a reasonable driving distance here.

It's all excuses, I know, and I have tried looking for different jobs. The few I've applied for in the past six months I either never heard back from or was sent nice rejection email.

porkypocky
Feb 11, 2009

ATP5G1 posted:

I have a question about how to handle applying to grad schools while applying to full-time research positions.

I have an interview coming up with a well-known research institute for a research assistant position. Entry level, only bachelor's degree required. I'm unemployed and would really like this job. I've also applied to enough grad schools that if many interview requests start coming in it will be difficult to explain the need for frequent absences in February/March. In the initial phone interview with the hiring manager they said they were looking for a relatively temporary position, 2-3 years, looking for someone who seeks to eventually move on in their education and not someone looking at a career. If I get into a school though I'll be gone by August or September. How do I approach this? Do I tell them during the in-person interview with the professor I'll be working under? Only if I'm hired? Get "sick" a lot (guessing this is the worst choice)? What have other people done? While my desired specialty isn't super-tight with this organization, the organization is big enough that I don't want to burn any bridges or piss people off.

I think I would be an excellent fit for this position, I have a good deal of research experience, would need minimal training, and a lot of passion for the work.

I was also wondering what people thought of this. I was in a similar situation where I applied for med school in June at the same time I got my job. I gave the same response Appachai suggested during the interview, and though it's sorta worked out (I got into a school and my contract expired at the end of last year, yay funemployment) I don't know what I would have done if I had to take that many absences for interviews.

Scientastic
Mar 1, 2010

TRULY scientastic.
🔬🍒


Has anyone got any experience of using the Illumina HiSeq platform? Are there any resources anyone can recommend for getting a quick handle on the basics of analysing the data produced? Specifically, bisulphite sequencing data.

I tried Illumina's website, but I found it rather difficult to penetrate to what I needed without reading a load of unnecessary bumf.

Sundae
Dec 1, 2005
Well... after seven months of interviews, I both won and lost at the Ireland thing. :(

I got the offer a few days ago. 50K euros, full-time, 20 days of vacation, but then catch after catch after catch came up while reviewing legal requirements and the rest of the deal.

First, no relocation costs are covered. I'd basically have to sell everything I own and drain the bank accounts to move out there. Second, the rules around terminating non-EU employees on work permits are not the same as terminating regular employees, so the 11-month probationary period turns into a 'fire at will' rule, with (conflicting information here depending on what I read) instantly voided work permit for probationary terminations. Third, 15 of those 20 vacation days must be used during one particular three week period at the end of July into early August, with five days left for the rest of the year. Finally, non-EU employees are not entitled to any of the other company benefits (sick time, retirement match, supplementary health insurance) until the end of their probationary period.

In short, the deal was set up in a way that I have to take enormous risks while they have nothing to lose. It's too dangerous an offer for me to take from out in the USA. :(

onemanlan
Oct 4, 2006
Just want to toss this out there: DGGE was made by a masochist. Whoever designed the technique probably meant well, but holy god does it loving suck. You can screw it up three times over on nearly every step of the way. Sad part is I'm only at the tip of the ice burg as far as how many I've had to do and will have to do!

Cheers lab rats! Hope everything is going well for you guys.

Sundae posted:

Well... after seven months of interviews, I both won and lost at the Ireland thing. :(

I got the offer a few days ago. 50K euros, full-time, 20 days of vacation, but then catch after catch after catch came up while reviewing legal requirements and the rest of the deal.

In short, the deal was set up in a way that I have to take enormous risks while they have nothing to lose. It's too dangerous an offer for me to take from out in the USA. :(

That freaking sucks! Why are there different EU and non-EU citizen rules for hiring practices? That sounds downright aggravating to say the least. I can understand visa issues and stuff related to immigration, but not how the practices would be altered in a large manner by that.

You're probably making the right choice on that one.

onemanlan fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Jan 25, 2013

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat
I'm leaving grad school with an MS in Chemistry sometime this spring/summer (got sick of the PhD track) so I'm starting to look around for jobs and build up a resume. I've begun picking through the CV/Resume thread here but for you people in lab jobs (or chemistry jobs in general) are there any specific resume tips for applying to the chemistry workforce? For example, would it be appropriate to include publications that have my name on them? What about mentioning in brief the kinds of chemistry I've done and the kinds of instrumentation I've used, or going into detail with me? Is a cover letter a good thing particularly for chemistry?

C-Euro fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Jan 29, 2013

Solkanar512
Dec 28, 2006

by the sex ghost

C-Euro posted:

I'm leaving grad school with an MS in Chemistry sometime this spring/summer (got sick of the PhD track) so I'm starting to look around for jobs and build up a resume. I've begun picking through the CV/Resume thread here but for you people in lab jobs (or chemistry jobs in general) are there any specific resume tips for applying to the chemistry workforce? For example, would it be appropriate to include publications that have my name on them? What about mentioning in brief the kinds of chemistry I've done and the kinds of instrumentation I've used, or going into detail with me? Is a cover letter a good thing particularly for chemistry?

Cover letters are always good, as are things you have done in the past to show that you know things which can be used in the real world. Publications are always awesome - it shows you can follow through even though you didn't get your PhD (and no shame in that, gently caress I only have a BS).

If you can afford it, the resume dude in SA mart is a great resource as well - there's a reason my testimonial is on the front page. And when I say "huge increase in salary", I really meant "a 70% increase in salary".

I'm sure others here can point you towards more specific tips for your industry. Best of luck!

seacat
Dec 9, 2006

C-Euro posted:

I'm leaving grad school with an MS in Chemistry sometime this spring/summer (got sick of the PhD track) so I'm starting to look around for jobs and build up a resume. I've begun picking through the CV/Resume thread here but for you people in lab jobs (or chemistry jobs in general) are there any specific resume tips for applying to the chemistry workforce? For example, would it be appropriate to include publications that have my name on them? What about mentioning in brief the kinds of chemistry I've done and the kinds of instrumentation I've used, or going into detail with me? Is a cover letter a good thing particularly for chemistry?

It varies a fair bit. What field of chemistry (analytical, bio, process, formulations, etc.) and industry (pharma, food, cosmetics, etc.) are you targeting? What do you eventually want to do in 2, 5, 10 years? Do you have any non-academic experience? What is your geographical location and where are you seeking work?

General advice is unless you did something AMAZING, nobody in industry gives a poo poo about your publications or research unless they are directly applicable to the job you're applying for -- for example, if you published a new GC/MS analytical method of nicotine metabolites and are applying to be an analytical chemist for Labcorp. Even so, academic research is generally far less applicable to real world techniques than academics think, but YMMV. I'm happily employed now but I've gone on a lot of interviews for staff chemist positions (graduated in the recession in 2007), and absolutely nobody asked about my publications or research which were listed on my resume, not even for warm-up small talk.

Instrumental experience is far, far, far more important. Like 90% of entry-level jobs in chemistry are largely oriented around, or at least involve to a large degree, instrumental analysis. Be specific; if I was hiring for my lab the resumes with Waters/Empower LC/UV-VIS and Agilent/Chemstation GC/FID experience would go to the top of the pile because I wouldn't have to waste time training their asses. Once you establish enough experience to show you're not a gently caress-up, you can lateral into management, R&D, process engineering, or even field service & metrology if that's your thing.

A cover letter is always necessary unless the job posting specifically states to submit resume only. You're going to be competing with loads of unemployed chemists with more experience and better resumes than you. A cover letter is your chance to set yourself apart. Without knowing the answers to the above questions though I can't really give you advice.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

seacat posted:

It varies a fair bit. What field of chemistry (analytical, bio, process, formulations, etc.) and industry (pharma, food, cosmetics, etc.) are you targeting? What do you eventually want to do in 2, 5, 10 years? Do you have any non-academic experience? What is your geographical location and where are you seeking work?

General advice is unless you did something AMAZING, nobody in industry gives a poo poo about your publications or research unless they are directly applicable to the job you're applying for -- for example, if you published a new GC/MS analytical method of nicotine metabolites and are applying to be an analytical chemist for Labcorp. Even so, academic research is generally far less applicable to real world techniques than academics think, but YMMV. I'm happily employed now but I've gone on a lot of interviews for staff chemist positions (graduated in the recession in 2007), and absolutely nobody asked about my publications or research which were listed on my resume, not even for warm-up small talk.

Instrumental experience is far, far, far more important. Like 90% of entry-level jobs in chemistry are largely oriented around, or at least involve to a large degree, instrumental analysis. Be specific; if I was hiring for my lab the resumes with Waters/Empower LC/UV-VIS and Agilent/Chemstation GC/FID experience would go to the top of the pile because I wouldn't have to waste time training their asses. Once you establish enough experience to show you're not a gently caress-up, you can lateral into management, R&D, process engineering, or even field service & metrology if that's your thing.

A cover letter is always necessary unless the job posting specifically states to submit resume only. You're going to be competing with loads of unemployed chemists with more experience and better resumes than you. A cover letter is your chance to set yourself apart. Without knowing the answers to the above questions though I can't really give you advice.
I'm going to offer a counter viewpoint. I can train anyone on anything, as long as they have a basic background in chemistry. What I'm most interested in is someone who can work independently. The ideal chemist can design their own experiments, analyze the results correctly, and communicate the findings effectively. Strong first-author papers are one way to demonstrate that. When I got hired to my current job, my boss pulled my publications. But he has a strong academic background himself, though so YMMV.

Cover letters are vital to this, as well. The ideal candidate is going to tell me about specific achievements in their cover letter. Briefly mentioning a new method you developed and its impact is a great thing to put in a cover letter. Be prepared to back it up in your interviews, though. You're definitely going to get grilled on it to determine if you did as much as you claim.

seacat posted:

Even so, academic research is generally far less applicable to real world techniques than academics think, but YMMV.
I couldn't agree more with this one.

C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat

seacat posted:

Instrumental experience is far, far, far more important. Like 90% of entry-level jobs in chemistry are largely oriented around, or at least involve to a large degree, instrumental analysis. Be specific; if I was hiring for my lab the resumes with Waters/Empower LC/UV-VIS and Agilent/Chemstation GC/FID experience would go to the top of the pile because I wouldn't have to waste time training their asses. Once you establish enough experience to show you're not a gently caress-up, you can lateral into management, R&D, process engineering, or even field service & metrology if that's your thing.

So you would advise mentioning the types of instrumentation used and their manufacturers? Right now I just have a quick list of what I've used and who made it (for example "Raman microscope [Renishaw]"), would you recommend mentioning the kinds of samples I've analyzed with them? Or maybe describing the instrument in more detail such as with a model number or software version?

seacat
Dec 9, 2006

Dik Hz posted:

I'm going to offer a counter viewpoint. I can train anyone on anything, as long as they have a basic background in chemistry. What I'm most interested in is someone who can work independently. The ideal chemist can design their own experiments, analyze the results correctly, and communicate the findings effectively. Strong first-author papers are one way to demonstrate that. When I got hired to my current job, my boss pulled my publications. But he has a strong academic background himself, though so YMMV.
We're actually in agreement here! I spoke a little too quickly. I've only been in my industry (cosmetics/OTCs) for a little under 5 years, but I've worked closely with or trained about a dozen analysts in that time. Someone that can actually troubleshoot problems, develop new methodologies, analyze and interpret data, actually apply the chemical principles they learned in school, is a prize catch, and hard to find. I've ran into people with literally decades of experience who couldn't operate on more than a technician level (excellent at executing pre-written methods, everything goes to poo poo when a problem is encountered), and people six months out of school who think critically, apply their knowledge, and don't lose their cool. Unfortunately when you need to hire now or manufacturing orders will be severely backlogged within a matter a week or two, you don't necessarily have the best candidates so barring any huge red flags the person with specific experience gets the job. (Not the way it should be, but that's the way it is at a lot of companies).

Listing your publication definitely probably won't hurt you (overqualification is a bitch), and if you have no non-academic experience they may or may not help you, just don't expect too much. As always it always depends on the hiring manager, thus the importance of tailoring your resume and cover letter to the position -- I've never had anyone pull my publications, but I completely believe that it happens and can be a large factor with some people.

C-Euro: it's hard to make suggestions without knowing what kind of position you're looking for and what, if any, non-academic experience you have. If you were applying to my lab for example (analytical QC at a cosmetics manufacturing plant), from an experienced chemist at the bare minimum I'd want to see something like "Assayed [analyte] in [sample] by [technique] with a throughput of [z] samples/day on [instrument/software]". Much better is stating your actual accomplishments rather than just duties -- something like "Reduced sample turnaround time for [xyz] by 50% by improving [process details]" (but MAKE SURE you can back it up!). I'd list the hardware and software of the instrumentation you used, but don't go into extreme detail.

Unfortunately Raman spectroscopy is kind of a niche field, but you can use your experience to demonstrate that you are technically proficient. I feel for you because my research was in NMR and when I graduated I realized due to the cost there are like 5 job openings in NMR in the whole country each year and they all require a PhD. In my field I would rate instrumental techniques in order of desire by employers:
Top tier: LC/UV-Vis(usually PDA), GC/FID, GC/TCD, GC/MS, IR, ICP-MS, ICP-OES, potentiometric/Karl Fisher titrators
2nd tier: UV-Vis, AA/AE, X-ray Fluorescence, particle size analyzers
3rd tier: LC/MS, IC, X-ray diffraction
Negligible or "send it out" tier: NMR, fluorimetry, other weird poo poo

I would do your best to contact people in the industry you want to work in and try to get a list like this from them. Networking is tough at first, but if you approach people politely with genuine interest you'll find that most of them are very happy to talk about what they do. If you at the "uhh, I have no idea, just want a job" stage, that's totally fine -- look at the major employers in your area and go from there.

seacat fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Jan 31, 2013

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C-Euro
Mar 20, 2010

:science:
Soiled Meat
Thanks for the feedback, I'm just trying to put together a general resume right now as my GF's advisor apparently knows a guy with a young-ish green chemistry/organic chem company, so she's been on me to give her a resume this week to pass to her boss to maybe pass on? I'm not sure how comfortable I feel giving out a resume by going through so many people like that but worst-case scenario is that I get some critique on it. I don't really know what I want to do right now either, I'm only doing this because she's been so insistent that she/her boss can hook me up (again, not too sure about that but she's over-excited about it because the company is located such that we'd be living together). Since this is just a practice swing of sorts, should I list my advisor as a reference or just say "References available upon request"?

Seacat- I just pulled Raman as an example, I've bounced around on a lot of different kinds of instrumentation (probably why I never found a project that held my interest or my advisor's :v:). No real experience on GC/MS though unfortunately :doh: I've spent a bunch of time doing FT-IR though!

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