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Frantz posted:I don't think you can take plaguemarines as your troop choice without also fielding Typhus Chaos Lord with mark of nurgle, khorne or slaanesh lets you buy plague marines, bezerkes or noise marines respectivrly as troops. You need a sorc with Mark of Tzeentch to get 1k sons. The only way to get plague zombies is to take Typhus...
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Feb 2, 2013 13:37
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Naramyth posted:Nobody is perfect. Indeed. Some people for example have a crazy resistance to comp.
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Feb 2, 2013 13:53
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PeterWeller posted:Why? It will be much more effective in the hands of the chaos lord with his better WS and I. Because there's nothing good to give the dark apostle otherwise.
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Feb 2, 2013 13:59
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Because there's nothing good to give the dark apostle otherwise. I think the conclusion here is that Dark Apostles are worthless and you are just hamstringing your Lord in order to justify running him.
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Feb 2, 2013 14:06
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Cataphract posted:Chaos Lord with mark of nurgle, khorne or slaanesh lets you buy plague marines, bezerkes or noise marines respectivrly as troops. You need a sorc with Mark of Tzeentch to get 1k sons. Ah, yes, my mistake 
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Feb 2, 2013 14:19
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I'm thinking of adding some more stuff to my Chaos army to take it from 1500 points up to a more solid 1750-1850 size of game and am wondering what to go with, while the subject's being discussed. The last list I fielded was: HQ: Warpsmith (110), Brand of Skalathrax (30), Aura of Dark Glory (15), Mark of Tzeentch (15) = 170 Elites: 5 Terminators (157), Autocannon/Chainfist (37), 2x Power Fist/Combimelta (24), 1x Lightning Claw/Combiplasma (8), Champion with Lightning Claw/Combiplasma (12), Marks of Tzeentch (25) = 263 1 Decimator (195), Stormlaser (15) = 210 Troops: 10 Chaos Marines (140), 2 Plasma Guns (30), Champion with Combi-Plasma (10), Rhino (35) = 215 10 Chaos Marines (140), 2 Meltaguns (20), Champion with Combi-Melta (10), Rhino (35) = 205 20 Cultists (90), 18 Autoguns (18), 2 Heavy Stubbers (10) = 118 Fast Attack: 1 Helldrake (170), Baleflamer = 170 Heavy Support: 2 Obliterators (140) Total: 1,491 It generally does OK, but I'm stumped on what to expand it with short of Vindicators, more Helldrakes or more Obliterators. I've considered changing the HQ (I've got models for a Lord, Sorcerer, Dark Apostle and Daemon Prince) but would mostly just appreciate some advice about what it's lacking/could do with more of.
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Feb 2, 2013 14:20
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Phyresis posted:I think the conclusion here is that Dark Apostles are worthless and you are just hamstringing your Lord in order to justify running him. If you want to run a Dark Apostle for flavor you're certainly welcome to, but it is generally accepted that they are a "bad" choice for an HQ. Fluff-wise, you could always justify a Sorceror in the same way, simply as an orator and wielder of the dark powers. Rolling on the boon table is typically just a minor bump even with a reroll and you can get a lot more variety and use out of a Sorceror on the table. I totally would like Dark Apostles to be good as they're nice and fluffy, but a Lord or Sorceror is just flat-out better. Bob Smith posted:I'm thinking of adding some more stuff to my Chaos army to take it from 1500 points up to a more solid 1750-1850 size of game and am wondering what to go with, while the subject's being discussed. It's been done to death, but I think your list would do well to add some AC Havocs to break open transports. 2 Obliterators can certainly do the job but only one at a time and once they're gone you might have more of a problem. Unless you're anti-Nurgle I'd also recommend adding Marks of Nurgle to the Obliterators as well to avoid Instant Death from lascannons and the like. Additionally I'm a huge fan of the Aegis Defence Line fortification with the quadgun for anti-air/tank as well as a 4+ cover save to all those autogun cultists, Obliterators, etc. PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Feb 2, 2013 |
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Feb 2, 2013 15:16
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PierreTheMime posted:If you want to run a Dark Apostle for flavor you're certainly welcome to, but it is generally accepted that they are a "bad" choice for an HQ. Fluff-wise, you could always justify a Sorceror in the same way, simply as an orator and wielder of the dark powers. Rolling on the boon table is typically just a minor bump even with a reroll and you can get a lot more variety and use out of a Sorceror on the table. I totally would like Dark Apostles to be good as they're nice and fluffy, but a Lord or Sorceror is just flat-out better. I'm pretty sure Warpsmiths can't take the Sigil (it's Special Issue and they're limited to Chaos Rewards) otherwise I would have taken it plus the mark for a sweet 2+/3++ save. I have terrible luck with scatter dice usually so avoid deep striking but I'll definitely give it a try and see how it goes. Would a Terminator Lord/Sorc be a better HQ pick and then deep strike them with the Terminators? From these comments I'm considering dropping the 'Smith, replacing him with a Lord/Sorc in Terminator Armour to go with the other Terminators and adding some Havocs and an Aegis line. Now the Horus Heresy models are out I think I'll splash out for a squad of Iron Armour with Heresy-era Autocannons for them.
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Feb 2, 2013 15:34
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Bob Smith posted:I'm pretty sure Warpsmiths can't take the Sigil (it's Special Issue and they're limited to Chaos Rewards) otherwise I would have taken it plus the mark for a sweet 2+/3++ save. You're right about the Sigil, forgot about that. A Sorceror in Terminator armor is a solid way to go, especially since their model is awesome. You would have to take a Tzeentchian spell, but considering you either get a random boon or an 18" Beam meltagun that's not a bad thing.
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Feb 2, 2013 15:39
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I've got a list I want to try against some of my friend's tournament lists, just so they don't run against the same stuff over and over. I like Kharn and wanted to run him, even if it isn't the greatest choice in the world. Kharn 160 Chaos Lord 170 MoN, Bike, Blight Grenades, Lightning Claw, Power Fist, Sigil Khorne Berzerkers 196 Add 4, Power Weapon Plague Marines 286 Add 3, Melta x2, Power Weapon, Rhino Plague Marines 286 Add 3, Melta x2, Power Weapon, Rhino Chaos Spawn 180 Add 4, MoN Land Raider 245 Dirge Caster, Extra Armor Predator 100 Heavy Bolters, Combi-Bolter Predator 100 Heavy Bolters, Combi-Bolter Noise Marines 125 Blastermaster I don't have any Helldrakes yet, so I'm just rolling with what I have. Any input would be very welcome.
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Feb 2, 2013 18:58
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Alright, it's that time of the year - I'm starting to think about commissions again! I leave my current Conservation Corps job (which has me camping out in a tent most of the time) to move back to NYC in April, and I'd love to have a fun commission job. I like lots of conversions and unusual themes, so here's a few ideas I've had in my head for a while. Tomb Kings-inspired Chaos - Egyptian iconography - Necrosphinx combined with the new daemon engines or Defiler - Constructs (Ushabti, Tomb Scorpions, etc) as allied Daemons - Skeletons as plague zombie cultists Eldar Exodites - Lizardmen beasts combined with Eldar technology - Wood Elf and Dark Eldar bits mixed in to give a unique feel to the army - Jungle/forest basing scheme - Could be expanded after new Codex release rumored for November Classic Tyranids - Cheap older models still look good with modern paintjobs - Nostalgia!    Of course I can do whatever, but those are some examples of the things bouncing around in my head. Here's some past projects, both commission and personal. I'm down to either just convert, as you can see with the bare models, just paint, or both.          You can PM or email me (p.h.dolan at gmail). I won't be able to really work until April, but I know lots of people like to have time to save up for purchases or brainstorm before committing to a commission. I'm down to just bounce ideas around too!
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Feb 2, 2013 19:15
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BuffaloChicken, BestChicken, ForgetfulChicken.  PM'd you. 
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Feb 2, 2013 19:54
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BuffaloChicken posted:Of course I can do whatever, but those are some examples of the things bouncing around in my head. Here's some past projects, both commission and personal. I'm down to either just convert, as you can see with the bare models, just paint, or both. The subjugator is the only titan I would get. Too bad you didn't give it a suggestive crotch gun.
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Feb 2, 2013 21:11
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They also need to update its rules
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Feb 2, 2013 21:22
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Trip report to Oregon's first GW store, man there's a bunch of hams up here! Probably 200 people and 2 employees.
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Feb 2, 2013 21:53
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ForeverFlashlight posted:Trip report to Oregon's first GW store, man there's a bunch of hams up here! Probably 200 people and 2 employees. But do they have games tables? 
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Feb 2, 2013 23:02
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:Because there's nothing good to give the dark apostle otherwise. You could give him the black mace or the burning brand if you want to give him a cool artifact weapon. He doesn't need to have AP2. I'm with Phyresis on this one. PierreTheMime posted:If you want to run a Dark Apostle for flavor you're certainly welcome to, but it is generally accepted that they are a "bad" choice for an HQ. Fluff-wise, you could always justify a Sorceror in the same way, simply as an orator and wielder of the dark powers. Rolling on the boon table is typically just a minor bump even with a reroll and you can get a lot more variety and use out of a Sorceror on the table. I totally would like Dark Apostles to be good as they're nice and fluffy, but a Lord or Sorceror is just flat-out better. Don't forget that dark apostles have zealot, which gives them and their unit fearless and hatred, and they create a Ld10 bubble. They're pretty useful in a CC focused army.
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Feb 2, 2013 23:10
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I've altered my list posted previously a little in line with the good advice I was given - how does this look? HQ: Sorcerer (60), Mastery 3 (50), Terminator Armour (25), Combiplasma (7) Mark of Tzeentch (15), Sigil of Corruption (25) = 182 Elites: 5 Terminators (157), Autocannon/Chainfist (37), 2x Power Fist/Combimelta (24), 1x Lightning Claw/Combiplasma (8), Champion with Lightning Claw/Combiplasma (12), Marks of Tzeentch (25) = 263 1 Decimator (195), Stormlaser (15) = 210 Troops: 10 Chaos Marines (140), 2 Plasma Guns (30), Champion with Combi-Plasma (10), Rhino (35) = 215 10 Chaos Marines (140), 2 Meltaguns (20), Champion with Combi-Melta (10), Rhino (35) = 205 20 Cultists (90), 18 Autoguns (18), 2 Heavy Stubbers (10) = 118 Fast Attack: 1 Helldrake (170), Baleflamer = 170 Heavy Support: 2 Obliterators (140), Mark of Nurgle (12) = 152 5 Havocs (75), 4 Autocannons (40), Mark of Nurgle (15), Veterans of the Long War (5) = 135 Fortifications: Aegis Line (50), Quadgun (50) = 100 Total = 1,750 I figure a Sorcerer with Tzeentch magic and a 2+/3++ save is a good leader for the Terminator squad, deep-striking in where he's needed most.
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Feb 2, 2013 23:44
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So I have this silly idea for a chaos list and I'm not sure it would work but I think it's funny. The basic concept is that the Thousand Sons are there for a fight and Kharn shows up with a squad of berzerkers in a land raider, doing doughnuts and giving no fucks and generally causing havoc killing the countryside and generally ruining their plans with awesomeness and hilarity. Anyway, the list goes something like this and should be somewhere around 1850 or 2000 points. Sorcerer of tzeench, sigil of corruption, etc ~ 100 or so 3x 10 Thousand Sons ~ 288 each, 864 Khar ~ 160 10 Berzerkers ~ 200 Land Raider ~ 230 And then a couple of units of Havocs or a couple forgefiends or something for heavy support ~ 300 or so. I feel like that is a little light on heavy firepower and might have trouble with armor or fliers in large numbers. Kharn and his zerkers should be able to take out a tank or two if they have to, not to mention destroying MEQ. The 30 AP3 bolters should also be pretty murder on MEQ. It feels like an interesting list that has potential, but I need some help tightening it up or making it effective at all.
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Feb 3, 2013 00:44
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Smegmalicious posted:So I have this silly idea for a chaos list and I'm not sure it would work but I think it's funny. The basic concept is that the Thousand Sons are there for a fight and Kharn shows up with a squad of berzerkers in a land raider, doing doughnuts and giving no fucks and generally causing havoc killing the countryside and generally ruining their plans with awesomeness and hilarity. Every time I want to like thousand sons I realize that the sorcerer is worse then the last edition. I think you can get away with some oblits to make up for the lack of variety in shooting; just model them as a kick rear end sorcerer riding a spawn with weapons sticking out of it or something. Landraider with "Tzeench is a nerd" written in blood on the side. Berzerkers popping out of the hatches to throw eggs and toilet paper. A sorcerer with a very expensive dry cleaning bill.
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Feb 3, 2013 01:03
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I just want to be absolutely sure about something here. The Axe of Blind Fury is NOT unwieldy, right? Because I have a crazy idea that involves a chaos lord, lots of khorne, 12 S7 AP2 I5 attacks on the charge, and one hell of a kitbash, if you see where I'm going with this 
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Feb 3, 2013 01:04
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It's not unwieldy, and yes, anything carrying one is scary as hell.
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Feb 3, 2013 01:07
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Smegmalicious posted:So I have this silly idea for a chaos list and I'm not sure it would work but I think it's funny. The basic concept is that the Thousand Sons are there for a fight and Kharn shows up with a squad of berzerkers in a land raider, doing doughnuts and giving no fucks and generally causing havoc killing the countryside and generally ruining their plans with awesomeness and hilarity. Ok, the purpose of the Tzeentch sorc is to make thousand sons troops I assume? I feel like spending ~1000 points on the sorc and the thousand sons is a mistake. If you're worried about AP3 and ignoring cover you can have 3 heldrakes (and that is way overkill in my opinion) for a little over half that price. You need to drop a berzerker if you want Kharn to ride with them as the Chaos Land Raider only has room for 10 models in power armor. I'm not even sure about Kharn + Berzerker + Land Raider for its cost. No access to variant land raiders and a price hike this edition makes chaos land raiders a bit of a bad buy in my opinion, especially as you have to use a heavy slot on them if you don't pick terminators (the slot probably isn't a big deal in 2k plus though I imagine). Thousand sons are expensive and specialized, so making them basically the core of your army is great if you fight a bunch of foot marine lists, but otherwise you're going to struggle in my opinion. Definitely get something in those heavy support slots to deal with your weaknesses at least.
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Feb 3, 2013 01:09
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Smegmalicious posted:So I have this silly idea for a chaos list and I'm not sure it would work but I think it's funny. The basic concept is that the Thousand Sons are there for a fight and Kharn shows up with a squad of berzerkers in a land raider, doing doughnuts and giving no fucks and generally causing havoc killing the countryside and generally ruining their plans with awesomeness and hilarity. I think you have to do more than make a slightly suboptimal list for it to be considered silly. Like, 210 cultists typhus and a squad of plague marines would be silly. e: I want to buy a big sack of bases to "count as" zombies and do a friendly game with that army now. Just to see how bad/good/hilarious it is. Schizotek fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Feb 3, 2013 |
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Feb 3, 2013 02:09
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Typhus, 210 cultists, 3 Heldrakes, and 3 Oblits are 1850 even I think
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Feb 3, 2013 02:11
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LordAba posted:Every time I want to like thousand sons I realize that the sorcerer is worse then the last edition. I think you can get away with some oblits to make up for the lack of variety in shooting; just model them as a kick rear end sorcerer riding a spawn with weapons sticking out of it or something. Going to the Black Library? Nerd alert!
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Feb 3, 2013 02:13
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Alright, I need some serious pointers with regards to flyers. I really, really liked 6th edition at first, but it is getting to the point where I can't find a game that isn't flyers everywhere. Necrons, helldrakes, demon princes, vendettas, and storm ravens. Flyers really ruin the game when your army has little to nothing in the way of versatile anti air and no access to good flyers. I primarily play Dark Angels, but I also have a sizable Tau force. DA have some lovely expensive flyers or flakk devs. Tau have... fortifications I guess. I'm a really easy going opponent - I've won sportsmanship awards at some large tournaments. I like to think I'm a very graceful loser, but I've reached the point where I don't even want to play against anyone with flyers. Unfortunately that means no tournaments and I could sit around half a day and not get a pick up game because everybody is using the drat things. So, what am I doing wrong? How do you guys deal with flyers other than taking an allied IG detachment? I'm so loving frustrated. I've gone from spending all week looking forward to my game day to practically hating the drat game. I want my fun back 
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Feb 3, 2013 06:12
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Ignore them, mostly. Twin linked S7+ helps, especially if you can get a rear armor shot.
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Feb 3, 2013 06:28
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Tuxedo Gin posted:Alright, I need some serious pointers with regards to flyers. For Tau, Broadsides with TL Plasma is a pretty scary unit, and will still wreck flyers with so many high strength TL shots. I stick them inside my Bastion and they have never died in about a dozen games. Hell, ally your Tau and DA together. The key is realizing that flyers are hard to kill, but there usually aren't many of them, and good positioning and movement can make their speed into a minor disadvantage. Other than that, don't waste shots on them unless you have a good weapon for it. And take advantage of the fact that your opponent's army is going to arrive in waves, and concentrate fire on the rest of his army the first couple of turns.
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Feb 3, 2013 06:32
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I haven't played much of the new edition yet. I'm going to a 1850pt tournament in a couple of weeks and I had an old edition Draigowing style army (i'm the worst). Am I completely boned? My old list (and painted/owned models) was in the order of: Draigo Librarian wi/ Force Staff 3 Autocannons 10 paladins keyed out for multiwound silliness (2 apoth, 2 psycannon/hammer, 2 psycannon/halberd, 2 SB/sword, 2 SB/halberd) 5 man strike force with hammer/psycannon Razorback with HB 3 x Psyflemen dreads Is there anything I could do to make the list a little more new ed friendly without too many more models to paint? I have access to a bunch of potential allies - friends have painted 2000ptish IG, Imp Fists, Blood Angels and Necrons.
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Feb 3, 2013 06:33
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ForeverFlashlight posted:Trip report to Oregon's first GW store, man there's a bunch of hams up here! Probably 200 people and 2 employees. I love how GW emails me crap all the time, and I'm hearing about this store for the first time here. I also start painting again, and I'm tempted to visit it now...
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Feb 3, 2013 07:02
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I painted up this dude tonight - been using a Nurgle Sorcerer so much in my games lately I figured I should paint him up since he has been sitting around for over 2 years.
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Feb 3, 2013 07:06
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humannature posted:Ok, the purpose of the Tzeentch sorc is to make thousand sons troops I assume? I feel like spending ~1000 points on the sorc and the thousand sons is a mistake. If you're worried about AP3 and ignoring cover you can have 3 heldrakes (and that is way overkill in my opinion) for a little over half that price. You need to drop a berzerker if you want Kharn to ride with them as the Chaos Land Raider only has room for 10 models in power armor. I'm not even sure about Kharn + Berzerker + Land Raider for its cost. No access to variant land raiders and a price hike this edition makes chaos land raiders a bit of a bad buy in my opinion, especially as you have to use a heavy slot on them if you don't pick terminators (the slot probably isn't a big deal in 2k plus though I imagine). Thousand sons are expensive and specialized, so making them basically the core of your army is great if you fight a bunch of foot marine lists, but otherwise you're going to struggle in my opinion. Definitely get something in those heavy support slots to deal with your weaknesses at least. What should I put in the heavy slot? I know that the sorcerer and the thousand sons are king of a points dump, but they should be hard to kill and pretty dangerous to anything on foot. Kind of the point of the army is a fluffy list that starts as a thousand sons detachment. Idon't know. Schizotek posted:I think you have to do more than make a slightly suboptimal list for it to be considered silly. Like, 210 cultists typhus and a squad of plague marines would be silly. I feel like the list is not bad, but it could be made pretty good. Mainly it's just loving hillarious to have Kharn show up and gently caress up the thousand son's plans like that. Like LordAba said. I just think it's great but I'd like it to not get tabled every time it shows up.
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Feb 3, 2013 07:24
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Ghost Hand posted:I painted up this dude tonight - been using a Nurgle Sorcerer so much in my games lately I figured I should paint him up since he has been sitting around for over 2 years. hah, I also bought this model two years ago and have been using him in a lot of games recently (still yet to be painted)
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Feb 3, 2013 07:26
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Ghost Hand posted:I painted up this dude tonight - been using a Nurgle Sorcerer so much in my games lately I figured I should paint him up since he has been sitting around for over 2 years. I love his little nurgling buddy.
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Feb 3, 2013 08:05
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Bob Smith posted:I'm thinking of adding some more stuff to my Chaos army to take it from 1500 points up to a more solid 1750-1850 size of game and am wondering what to go with, while the subject's being discussed. The decimator is an overpriced middle ground of a forge fiend and a mauler fiend. I'd drop it in favor of more specialized and cheaper heavy support while upgrading your warpsmith into a face rapey lord. Dropping the cultists for a spawn escort for a your lord would also go a long way in making your list threatening to most lists.
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Feb 3, 2013 09:02
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So... AU goons, I'm thinking about selling off my unassembled/unpainted/untouched space marines. Most of it is in in boxes that are a bit dog-eared, some without boxes. I'm not sure what kind of price to set for it, as a guideline percentage of GW's AU prices. I'm also not sure how to sell it. Should I throw it up on Ebay or go somewhere like WargamerAU?
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Feb 3, 2013 09:22
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Smegmalicious posted:I feel like the list is not bad, but it could be made pretty good. Mainly it's just loving hillarious to have Kharn show up and gently caress up the thousand son's plans like that. Like LordAba said. I just think it's great but I'd like it to not get tabled every time it shows up. Treat Khan and his buds as desperate allies.
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Feb 3, 2013 12:00
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Just played a flyer game from Crusade of Fire. It... wasn't great. Is the Arena battle much better?
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Feb 3, 2013 12:10
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Smegmalicious posted:What should I put in the heavy slot? I know that the sorcerer and the thousand sons are king of a points dump, but they should be hard to kill and pretty dangerous to anything on foot. Kind of the point of the army is a fluffy list that starts as a thousand sons detachment. Idon't know. They aren't much harder to kill than regular marines to be honest. I mean, a basic chaos marine and a thousand son both die the same to anything that isn't AP3 or better, and if your thousand sons get caught up in assault they're slightly worse due to no overwatch (a stupid limitation in my opinion). Weight of fire is usually what I see marines dying to. Anyway, your list desperately needs ways to open up transports so that you can get at the contents. Autocannon havocs are good for lighter transports like rhinos and they're cheap. Your land raider is going to be busy delivering Kharn and company, so you aren't going to get the full use out of its weaponry, so I wouldn't rely too heavily on its lascannons. Kharn can reasonably expect to deal with AV 14 (str 7 on the charge, armourbane), but only in assault. If it's an AV 14 transport like a battlewagon (front only) or a land raider (all around), you really want it open before you have to assault so you can get at its contents. That means you need some melta. Deep striking termicide could be an option (that is 3 terminators with combi-meltas deep strike near a vehicle, possibly give them a chainfist so they have to be dealt on your opponents turn). That's relatively cheap and it should buy your thousand sons some time to footslog forward a bit. You can also do something similar with obliterators as they have a multi-melta, but they're more valuable, so losing them can hurt. I'm not sold on forgefiends for their points. Yes, daemonforge is useful, but you're still going to struggle against heavier armor. You also lack armor saturation in your list, so fiends would be a tempting target for your opponents long range anti-tank. Another thing you might consider is dropping the sorc and picking up Ahriman. I'm not convinced he's worth it because he's rather expensive, but he does guarantee you infiltrate on D3 infantry units, which will help your sons get on target faster, and he can do a lot of witchfire sniping. That said he's 230 points for a 3 wound, 3+/4++ IC, and perils could really hurt if you're unlucky. Infiltrate would be very valuable for sons I think. If you're concerned with fluff, obliterators will work with anyone provided you have something they want or can get it for them (or can convince them you can get it for them.) Really though, a Tzeentch oriented force could always have tricked or bribed other chaos forces into working with them.
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Feb 3, 2013 12:19
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