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 FightingMongoose posted:Bozza, if you can be bothered making an effortpost... And also a thing from the BBC asking "have fares risen since privatisation" (answer: yes.) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21056703 including rail minister Simon Burns giving the excuse that the reason fares are high now is because BR didn't invest in the 80s/90s and now the ~*free market*~ has to make up for it, conveniently ignoring why British Rail didn't invest (no money) and who was responsible for funding them (tories). Rude Dude With Tude fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Jan 22, 2013 |
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Jan 22, 2013 20:58
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A woman from Greater Anglia jumped aboard the train while it was sat at the terminus and asked if I could complete a quick survey. I agreed, since I wasn't going anywhere soon. One of the questions was: "Would you recommend this train company to any of your friends who were thinking about travelling?" Rather than what? Walking?
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Jan 23, 2013 18:23
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kingturnip posted:Rather than what? Walking?
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Jan 23, 2013 23:29
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kingturnip posted:One of the questions was: Gotta love that free market!
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Jan 24, 2013 00:08
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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:
How the gently caress does something like this get posed as a question? Honest to gently caress, next it'll be checking whether privatisation benefits poor people.
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Jan 24, 2013 00:38
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Chocolate Teapot posted:How the gently caress does something like this get posed as a question? Honest to gently caress, next it'll be checking whether privatisation benefits poor people. So you think the BBC shouldn't look into things and should just accept "common knowledge"? The general public's perception of price rises are almost always without consideration of inflation, like the whole "Freddos aren't 10p anymore!?!?!" thing; while since the time Freddos were priced at 10p there has been almost 100% inflation, so they are now 20p. The BBC article points out that several rail routes and ticket types have not increased equal to inflation, even though the general trend is that rail prices have increased more than inflation. twoot fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Jan 24, 2013 |
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Jan 24, 2013 01:06
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twoot posted:So you think the BBC shouldn't look into things and should just accept "common knowledge"? The general public's perception of price rises are almost always without consideration of inflation, like the whole "Freddos aren't 10p anymore!?!?!" thing; while since the time Freddos were priced at 10p there has been almost 100% inflation, so they are now 20p. I wasn't aware that the average inflation rate of the last 5 years was 20%. At an average rate of closer to the CPI 3% it would take over 33 years for inflation alone to be the cause of the doubling in price of Freddos. And since Freddos were not available between 1979 and 1994, that's clearly not the case.
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Jan 25, 2013 00:58
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Iohannes posted:I wasn't aware that the average inflation rate of the last 5 years was 20%. At an average rate of closer to the CPI 3% it would take over 33 years for inflation alone to be the cause of the doubling in price of Freddos. And since Freddos were not available between 1979 and 1994, that's clearly not the case. Inflation compounds and fluctuates.
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Jan 25, 2013 01:51
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Iohannes posted:I wasn't aware that the average inflation rate of the last 5 years was 20%. At an average rate of closer to the CPI 3% it would take over 33 years for inflation alone to be the cause of the doubling in price of Freddos. And since Freddos were not available between 1979 and 1994, that's clearly not the case. Actually at 3% it would take 24 years to double in price. But lets not quibble about actual maths.
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Jan 25, 2013 10:11
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Nationalise Freddos.
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Jan 25, 2013 12:00
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This is what ice can do to the bottom of a train, by the way:  (click for zoom)
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Jan 25, 2013 13:45
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So this article on battery-powered trains got me thinking: what're the next-gen technologies as far as rail transport is concerned? I know there's maglev and all, but that seems like a dead end because of infrastructure costs.
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Feb 3, 2013 18:10
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quote:If for some an intercity express will always resemble an oversized toy then this is perhaps just one stage further towards an extravagant childhood dream: a battery-powered train capable of travelling 600 miles on a single charge. Toy trains pick up current through the rails. They don't use batteries.
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Feb 3, 2013 18:43
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Cerv posted:Urrgh. There are plenty of models of toys that use batteries http://www.kindertrains.com/brio-wooden-railway-battery-powered-engines.html (The Brio brand train sets use wooden track pieces with grooves for the wheels to run in, it'd be impossible to supply current)
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Feb 3, 2013 19:09
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coffeetable posted:So this article on battery-powered trains got me thinking: what're the next-gen technologies as far as rail transport is concerned? I know there's maglev and all, but that seems like a dead end because of infrastructure costs. They would be really really bad for the environment as well, those 8 ton batteries will need replacing all the time (the savings on fossil fuels will also prob be negative once you include the manufacturing costs of the battery). Electrification makes much more sense in the long term. e: I'm not sure how much improvement is rail efficiency is physically possible, it is already ridiculously efficient. Going faster without using more energy will always have large infrastructure costs, and pouring concrete is very carbon intensive. I suppose the "next-gen" technology is really in reducing costs and improving design and town planning so that more people will travel by rail. There are also gains to be made in timetabling/organizational structure/signalling in order to get more tph on limited track space. None of them are very sexy though. This is a great graph from a very good freely available book. 
distortion park fucked around with this message at 19:21 on Feb 3, 2013 |
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Feb 3, 2013 19:09
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pointsofdata posted:They would be really really bad for the environment as well, those 8 ton batteries will need replacing all the time (the savings on fossil fuels will also prob be negative once you include the manufacturing costs of the battery). Electrification makes much more sense in the long term. These make a good stop-gap while electrification goes on - certainly better than the current plan of trains equipped with both diesels and pantographs/shoes for electrified lines.
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Feb 3, 2013 19:18
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goddamnedtwisto posted:These make a good stop-gap while electrification goes on - certainly better than the current plan of trains equipped with both diesels and pantographs/shoes for electrified lines. Dual-mode locos work fine in the United States and Canada: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALP-45DP http://www.railwayage.com/index.php/passenger/commuter-regional/njts-alp-45dp-enters-revenue-service.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_DM30AC These are "full" dual mode vehicles which are capable of operating for hours and hundreds of miles on either power mechanism. One of them's been in revenue service for a decade or so and the other just started. There's also the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Genesis#P32AC-DM which is capable of running on third rail power only for about 30 minutes or so at a time; which is enough to allow them to travel through tunnels where diesel is otherwise prohibited due to emissions issues.
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Feb 3, 2013 19:29
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I wrote a paper for university on discontinuous electrification, I'll dig it out tomorrow and post some highlights.
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Feb 3, 2013 19:50
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Install Gentoo posted:There's also the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Genesis#P32AC-DM which is capable of running on third rail power only for about 30 minutes or so at a time; which is enough to allow them to travel through tunnels where diesel is otherwise prohibited due to emissions issues. What prevents them from running for longer than 30 minutes on third rail power?
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Feb 3, 2013 21:08
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Install Gentoo posted:Dual-mode locos work fine in the United States and Canada: They worked fine here too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_73 Worked, because we figured we could throw them away a couple of years ago.
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Feb 3, 2013 21:11
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Weembles posted:What prevents them from running for longer than 30 minutes on third rail power? They're simply not designed for it. I'm no mechanic so I can't tell you why but they're rated to only remain moving on third rail power for about 30 minutes; which is more than enough time to move them out of the NYC train tunnels where running a diesel engine is banned except in case of emergency or repair works with passenger service shut down. The other two designs can run on either power mode as much as they want however.
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Feb 3, 2013 21:12
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Install Gentoo posted:They're simply not designed for it. I'm no mechanic so I can't tell you why but they're rated to only remain moving on third rail power for about 30 minutes; which is more than enough time to move them out of the NYC train tunnels where running a diesel engine is banned except in case of emergency or repair works with passenger service shut down. At a guess when you have a primarily diesel locomotive, you would be likely to use a naive design where you have separate 'throttles' (since you usually control the power to the bogie motors by varying the speed into the generator on a diesel locomotive which in turn adjusts the voltage/current dependant on load, but have a constant voltage source on an electric locomotive, which means using rheostats or such to control the voltage to the motors). As such, if your design is only for short use of electric, then you can avoid a lot of the heatsinks necessary to dissipate the heat from the rheostats and just rely on it not getting 'that hot' if it's only running for 30 minutes max. OTOH, a locomotive that is more evenly split between methods of propulsion, you'll need to dissipate the heat generated from a potentially constant use of the electric pickup, and thus need to cart around the heatsinks anyway, and can use a more complex single throttle system, that makes the diesel/generator act more like a constant voltage source.
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Feb 3, 2013 21:22
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SybilVimes posted:They worked fine here too: Pretty sure there's still 73s around - in fact NR have bought some/all of them and plans to have them re-engined so they have the same power off the third rail as well as on it, and with less risk of overheating. In terms of battery locos, there's the LU battery locos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_battery-electric_locomotives) and the NR New Measurement Train, which is basically an old HST, was given a battery for a while as a test (http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/hybrid-technology-enters-the-real-world.html). I also just found out about this, but it doesn't sound like it was too successful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_BEMU
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Feb 3, 2013 21:33
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Weembles posted:What prevents them from running for longer than 30 minutes on third rail power? Looks like you'll get some technical info here - http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=110790&sid=99038713811daac11d008b3b97abb0db
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Feb 4, 2013 02:05
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Next time you complain about fare collection policy, be glad it's not as draconian as this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21294241quote:The Swiss have long been proud of their railways but a new, strict ticketing policy is turning the love affair sour.
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Feb 4, 2013 15:54
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Jonnty posted:Next time you complain about fare collection policy, be glad it's not as draconian as this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21294241 Yeah, this article is a bit poo poo. The phone-based ticketing system works well and there are dozens of ticket machines at the stations, one breaking doesn't prevent anyone from getting anywhere. Even if they all broke, the stories of people invalidating their tickets by pen and then getting fined by the conductor is a bit silly too. If you board the train and the first thing you do is explain to the conductor what has happened, they're more than happy to invalidate the ticket themselves. It's only if you take the piss and wait a few stops that they'll shaft you. Swiss trains are thoroughly awesome: They're dirt cheap if you have a 1/2 tarif card which everyone except tourists have, a bit like oyster in london. They're spacious, clean, efficient and frequent. The complaints are just because the swiss don't like change (or immigrants, or poor people, or liberals).
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Feb 4, 2013 16:12
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StarkingBarfish posted:Yeah, this article is a bit poo poo. The phone-based ticketing system works well and there are dozens of ticket machines at the stations, one breaking doesn't prevent anyone from getting anywhere. Even if they all broke, the stories of people invalidating their tickets by pen and then getting fined by the conductor is a bit silly too. If you board the train and the first thing you do is explain to the conductor what has happened, they're more than happy to invalidate the ticket themselves. It's only if you take the piss and wait a few stops that they'll shaft you. Fair enough. It did sound a bit excessive to be true.
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Feb 4, 2013 17:35
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Jonnty posted:Next time you complain about fare collection policy, be glad it's not as draconian as this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-21294241 But it IS that draconian, loads of people get fined/charged-the-special-'we hate you'-fare by virtue of not being able to buy their tickets at a broken machine. Hell, I've had it happen to me, although he gave me the option of getting off at the next stop, which was thankfully where I was getting off anyway.
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Feb 4, 2013 18:07
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SybilVimes posted:But it IS that draconian, loads of people get fined/charged-the-special-'we hate you'-fare by virtue of not being able to buy their tickets at a broken machine. I was thinking more about the e-ticket bought on the train thing, but yeah, I guess it's kind of the same. Although in Scotland even if the machine's working you can buy one on the train, it only really matters if there's a ticket office that's open.
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Feb 4, 2013 18:19
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Bozza - I take it this essay is going to go the way of the level-crossing post :pStarkingBarfish posted:If you board the train and the first thing you do is explain to the conductor what has happened, they're more than happy to invalidate the ticket themselves. It's only if you take the piss and wait a few stops that they'll shaft you. Genuinely don't understand - hows it remotely cheeky to wait for them to come to you, I'd think it a bit weird to go bounding up to them at the start of a journey saying I bought it on my phone instead of on the platform or whatever, especially if that's offered as an alternative. Although I suppose it's not surprising that a "Revenue Protection Inspector" or what have you would consider it cheeky not to run up to them immediately and beg forgiveness.
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Feb 4, 2013 18:35
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In tangentially train related news, I got through to The Chain on Radcliffe and Maconie today on 6 Music, and ended up chatting about HS2 for a bit! Obviously, this doesn't have a lot to add to this thread, but I was so excited I'm basically telling everyone. I was on at about 2:15ish (so and hour and a quarter in). re electrification / batteries etc, other than making my media debut, I've been super busy today. New project ahoy! Watch out Liverpool Lime Street, I'm coming for you...
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Feb 4, 2013 18:39
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Wootcannon posted:Bozza - I take it this essay is going to go the way of the level-crossing post :p It's a little different to the UK, and hence the confusion. In Switzerland (and in some other EU countries, Italy for example), the onus is on you to ensure that you have a valid ticket the moment you step onto the train. If you don't, you shouldn't be on there. If it's a genuine fault you're expected to tell the conductor immediately, and he/she is waiting outside the train from the moment the doors are open until they close. While the culture in the UK is that the conductor is a service rep there to do your legwork, in Switzerland it's a different matter. The phone problem I agree is a different story- that person had no reason to believe that they were travelling without a valid ticket. The case I'm referring to is the people who board with an unfranked ticket. I've done it a couple of times, once when the train was seconds from leaving and I didn't have time to stamp it, and once when the machine was broken. On both cases finding the conductor meant I didn't get a fine.
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Feb 4, 2013 19:02
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Dual mode trains are probably going to get rolled out as part of the intercity express programme so that trains can, say, run to Edinburgh on electricity and then up to Inverness on diesel. The problem with dual mode is that when you're under wires, you're dragging round a heavy diesel engine and fuel tank that isn't doing anything except wearing out the track and taking energy to accelerate. This would be even worse with batteries, their energy density is around 1/30 of that of diesel. If we're going to store energy on board, this way would be much more fun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrobus
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Feb 4, 2013 22:16
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Endjinneer posted:If we're going to store energy on board, this way would be much more fun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrobus You're in luck! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parry_People_Mover
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Feb 5, 2013 14:51
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Endjinneer posted:Dual mode trains are probably going to get rolled out as part of the intercity express programme so that trains can, say, run to Edinburgh on electricity and then up to Inverness on diesel. What's the comparison of energy density once you actually factor in the weight of the diesel engines though? Those things are loving heavy... Also when you said Gyrobus, I was intensely disappointed it wasn't a roadgoing version of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyro_monorail
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Feb 6, 2013 23:24
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That's awesome. I love that the part about failure modes totally fails to address the huge loving disk of spinning metal at the center of every carriage.
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Feb 8, 2013 13:46
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Bozza et al, read this: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=4470 Why does the transport industry use such bizarre language? Alight, disembark and so on. Is it just a matter of standardisation?
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Feb 11, 2013 03:00
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That isn't bizarre language, it's merely antiquated.
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Feb 11, 2013 05:01
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quote:Signalman stuck in a toilet: Network Rail apologies Never forget just how old our rail infrastructure is, and why continuing investment is very loving important.
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Feb 11, 2013 23:12
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I just verified a plan which closes all the Victorian boxes on that line. Modular signalling is going to be the death knell of that style box sadly 
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Feb 12, 2013 08:21
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