|
Just finished The Hydrogen Sonata. Subliming is a pretty scary thing. On the civilization-level, it's not so scary. "The physical realm has nothing left to truly offer us." On the personal level, holy poo poo. It's pretty much saying you have no need for things anymore. And once you're gone, you're most likely not coming back because there's very little worthwhile in coming back. Warib, as much as she loves her daughter, will simply be too... Above the desire to see her daughter again to see her again. Argas fucked around with this message at 09:57 on Feb 7, 2013 |
#
?
Feb 7, 2013 09:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 00:05 |
|
|
BastardySkull posted:
The 2:1 club is the best club.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2013 09:28
|
|
|
I am shamelessly using your Player of Games backcover BastardySkull, I think it's phenominal. Though I couldn't think of any short enough quotes to use from PoG to use as the accompanying text...
Circle Nine fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Feb 9, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2013 03:41
|
|
|
Just watched a good Movie, Bunker Palace Hotel, there was something very M Banks about it. which is odd, as it was made by a sci fi writer and artist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2013 03:29
|
|
|
Circle Nine posted:I am shamelessly using your Player of Games backcover BastardySkull, I think it's phenominal. Though I couldn't think of any short enough quotes to use from PoG to use as the accompanying text... High five good-taste-in-avatars buddy. Mister Sinewave posted:Culture ship names would not stand out in any way whatsoever on this board, for example. This I'm not so sure about. Gravitas Shortfall fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Feb 19, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2013 15:43
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:
Well, we're at least two...
|
|
#
?
Feb 23, 2013 22:20
|
|
|
I guess "not stand out in any way" is probably overstating it. I just finished Against a Dark Background which I enjoyed and found interesting. I just started Excession now and it's pretty exciting early on. I am working through the (sci-fi) books in order of writing; I decided to do this after realizing that I would have gotten more out of Use of Weapons had I read The Player of Games first (my only other Banks book before that was Consider Phlebas - I think PoG gave me a lot of context, which I lacked when reading UoW.) As an aside, a while ago I picked up The Wasp Factory and I couldn't put it down.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2013 09:56
|
|
|
Mister Sinewave posted:I just finished Against a Dark Background which I enjoyed and found interesting. As I always bring up again when someone mentions reading the book: if you're not aware, there's an online-only epilogue.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2013 10:07
|
|
|
Thanks! I'll give it a read. I had no idea.
|
|
#
?
Feb 24, 2013 10:21
|
|
|
Just finished Look to Windward. Just one thing I didn't quite get about the ending: There's a line in there about the dirigible behemothaurs having "evolved". I understand that eons have passed before they discover the Culture agent's body in space, and revive him, but what's the deal with them having "evolved"? Is that just meant to be another way to indicate just how much time has passed, or is there something more important going on? Overall I really loved it. I think I'd have to rank the Culture novels that I've read as follows. 1) The Player of Games - It is just too slick, too captivating, too fun. A really coherent, accessible entry-point to the Culture. 2) Look to Windward - Such a really nice contrast to the rest of the series. Not particularly action-heavy, very talky, beautifully drawn characters (whose personas are quite deeply explored, I thought), and a lot of philosophical stuff that doesn't feel contrived or out of place. Not just exciting and awe-inspiring, but genuinely moving and emotional. Probably a better book than The Player of Games, if a bit less approachable. 3) The Hydrogen Sonata - The most "Player of Gamesy" thing I think he's done since that book. A great action-filled plot that also has enough intellectual meat to it. Some great stuff about both the Minds and the Subliming. 4) Surface Detail - This was borderline too dense and complex for me, but I quite liked it in the end. I do think I need to re-read it, though. 5) Consider Phlebas - A really fun romp that, to me, has a cumbersome final third. The stuff on Scharl's world simply dragged too much for me. Too much wandering around the labyrinth. Good but not great. 6) Matter - Ugh, talk about anti-climactic. Very dense, complex and intricate without in any way being worth the effort it takes to make sense of it. The ending provides literally no pay-off, and the Culture aren't big players in it at all. Yes I understand that the whole point of the book is 'perspective' and how the politicking/machinations of the various races on the shell world was fundamentally irrelevant in the scheme of things but, wow, having that illustrated (by completely discarding the storyline you've come to care about) was really unsatisfying. I've also read Excession, but I was too young and don't remember it now. I'll have to revisit it at some point. For now, though, I'm making my way through Use of Weapons. I'm maybe a quarter of the way into it. I'm finding the individual chapters quite rich and satisfying on their own, but I'm having difficulty making sense of how they fit together. I think part of the problem might be that I'm doing it as an audiobook. I'm going to pick up the paperback and see if it's easier to follow. The one I'm least enthused to read is Inversions, because I know the rough gist of it (a story about a visit from the Culture from the perspective of the visited species) and am concerned it's not actually going to involve enough of the esoteric Culture-centric sci-fi stuff that I really love about the series. (Similarly, while Matter was definitely esoteric, I simply missed the Culture too much - they were too marginal in that book.) Thoughts? Those On My Left fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Mar 3, 2013 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2013 23:14
|
|
|
Those On My Left posted:The one I'm least enthused to read is Inversions, because I know the rough gist of it (a story about a visit from the Culture from the perspective of the visited species) and am concerned it's not actually going to involve enough of the esoteric Culture-centric sci-fi stuff that I really love about the series. Thoughts? I loved it and it's the only Culture novel I'd consider re-reading (because I'm still not sure I caught everything) but then again I liked Matter a good deal too, so our tastes may be different.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2013 23:17
|
|
|
Those On My Left posted:I've also read Excession, but I was too young and don't remember it now. I'll have to revisit it at some point. For now, though, I'm making my way through Use of Weapons. I'm maybe a quarter of the way into it. I'm finding the individual chapters quite rich and satisfying on their own, but I'm having difficulty making sense of how they fit together. I think part of the problem might be that I'm doing it as an audiobook. I'm going to pick up the paperback and see if it's easier to follow. Use of Weapons all comes together at the very end and I envy you being able to experience that for the first time.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2013 23:58
|
|
|
When I got to the end of Use of Weapons I felt like I'd been punched in the chest. Hell of an ending.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2013 01:06
|
|
|
Pope Guilty posted:When I got to the end of Use of Weapons I felt like I'd been punched in the chest. Hell of an ending. It has my favorite epilogue to anything ever. And thanks for the extra one for Dark Background, that's one of my favorite re-reads since there are so many wonderful set pieces.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2013 04:14
|
|
|
I love the call to it in Surface Detail but it makes me very sad indeed.
|
|
#
?
Mar 4, 2013 22:21
|
|
|
Those On My Left posted:I've also read Excession, but I was too young and don't remember it now. I just finished Excession. (Inversions is next on my list.) I enjoyed Excession. I thought of it kind of as a character study of the Culture (mostly of the Minds). The Affront were pretty interesting. I had some trouble making sense (retroactively speaking) of two things: One: the one ship(and crew) to have encountered the Excession before, and how it and the crew wound up making Unusual Life Choices afterwards and them all basically just checking out in one way or another not long after encountering the anomaly. It certainly helped make the Excession seem sinister. The best I could think of was that they were "taken in" much like the Grey Matter and the Elencher ships were, but upon returning the experience changed them in some way that wasn't actually sinister but just left them unsuited to their old life in some way. The Excession in the epilogue makes reference to suggesting that the memories be scrubbed before the Grey Matter and Elencher vessels are returned (if they return), maybe that's why. Beats me but that's my best guess. Two: The engine troubles that ships around the Excession seemed to get. Not the bigtime one later where the Excession is basically enforcing a no-fly zone; the one that plagued the old ship from #1 above, then the Affront ship after it encounters the drone... They were described as "subtle but persistent" engine issues that ships seem "infected" with just be being in the general area. It seemed sinister, but was it just some side effect of being near something so unusual? Was the significance of the engine trouble (clearly described as something that Should Not Happen) simply that it was a clear sign of something really remarkable and unusual, but at the same time was something no one paid any attention to?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2013 00:33
|
|
|
Mister Sinewave posted:I just finished Excession. (Inversions is next on my list.) In regards to number one: I felt the story about about the original contact event was mostly played up by conspirators to reel in Genar-Hofoen and to make the whole affair seem more mysterious and intriguing, so he would agree to go the Sleeper Service. Unusual Life Choices don't actually seem to be all that unusual in the Culture, and I imagine some crew and ship from the early wily days of Contact to be an odd bunch of people. Maybe there's something more to it, but seeing as how the entire song and dance about the Problem Child and stealing Tramow's soul was bullshit, I wouldn't put it past SC to blow it out of proportion or even alter records of events to make their case stronger. And number two: Maybe it was just the Excession's subtle way off getting the local barbarians to gently caress off? Its response to ships investigating escalated with the escalation of contact efforts, so it was probably trying to avoid notice until the Fate Amenable to Change and the Elench found it and started getting chatty.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2013 01:06
|
|
|
Hmm, hadn't thought of it that way.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2013 17:20
|
|
|
While I love Banks, I'm starting to get creeped out by the prevalence of incest in his non-M books. It seems like a central theme in several of them, and a peripheral element in a few others. It may be an inevitable side effect of the fact that he likes to write books about dark family secrets, but it's gotten to the point where I'm waiting for it to come up in every drat non-SF book that he writes. I feel like at best it's getting lazy, and at worst he has some kind of skeevy issue with the subject.
|
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2013 00:24
|
|
|
Use Of Weapons. gently caress.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2013 00:40
|
|
|
Those On My Left posted:Use Of Weapons. I KNOW, right? Like a punch in the gut.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2013 00:41
|
|
|
Pope Guilty posted:I KNOW, right? Like a punch in the gut. Unbelievable. I only figured it out about a page before it happened. There had been a few hints of increasing bluntness in the dozen or so pages beforehand, but I guess I'm not that smart. Lucky for me! Meant it was an even bigger surprise. I feel like I probably need to re-read it at some point. There are a couple of things I don't quite understand. I could have sworn that our protagonist referred to 'carrying a bit of Darkense around inside himself', in what was a reference to the bone fragment that went near his heart. But I thought that actually happened to Cheradenine? I'm sure this is clarified/explained properly in the book but I don't remember how. I suspect it's probably that the bone fragment actually goes into Elethiomel but it's worded very ambiguously, so the reader assumes it's talking about Cheradenine. I would also like to remind myself exactly what happens at Winter Palace - the various sieges and battles in the book have kind of blended so I can't quite remember how Zakalwe fucks that up and what the ramifications are. Overall I was really comfortable with the 'grey areas' and ambiguities that the book leaves untouched, with one exception. I would have liked more detail about what happened at and after the final battle of the Stabarinde. Who won? How did Elethiomel get away? Why does he run away? Unlike a couple of other reviews I read online, I really didn't need more detail on why Elethiomel eventually became overwhelmed by guilt. One final observation: the chair is crushingly grotesque. Such despair. A great book, really happy that I persevered with it. While I still have a very fond spot in my heart for The Player of Games (I still think it's the best introduction to the series, and the most 'fun' of the books by miles), Use of Weapons and Look to Windward are now my favourites.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2013 00:51
|
|
|
Tuxedo Catfish posted:I liked Matter a good deal too, so our tastes may be different. Me too! Matter was Banks doing Shakespeare, and doing it quite well. Plus, the title is easily his best of all of them. It's set on a Big Dumb Object (made of matter) it is 'matter', as in a topic of discussion, and it is about what 'matters' - with the subtext that what matters to you doesn't matter to anyone above or below you - which is in turn echoed by the structure of the Shellworld. Just lovely.
|
|
#
?
Mar 12, 2013 01:40
|
|
|
Those On My Left posted:I would also like to remind myself exactly what happens at Winter Palace - the various sieges and battles in the book have kind of blended so I can't quite remember how Zakalwe fucks that up and what the ramifications are. You're getting at one of my favorite aspects of the novel. Guess this is all going to have to be spoilered. The Staberinde and the Winter Palace sieges mirror each other. At the Staberinde, Elethiomel was at the end of his initial career: under siege and seemingly in a hopeless situation, he uses his hostage as a weapon against the enemy commander, Zakalwe. Elethiomel then leads his forces in a breakout attempt timed to take advantage of Zakalwe being incapacitated by the discovery of the chair. The weapon works well: Zakalwe commits suicide. The breakout attempt doesn't seem to have quite been a success, in that Elethiomel's side loses the war, but he personally escapes and eventually sneaks off planet. At the Winter Palace, "Zakalwe" has been working for the Culture for a long time, but he's becoming more and more disenchanted. His redemptive project was based on the idea that the Culture are the "good guys" and even if he does terrible things, as long as he does them on their behalf he is on the side of the angels. The Culture has tasked Zakalwe with helping the aristocratic forces break out of a siege. But he fails. He's no longer willing to do whatever it takes to win, no longer willing to use whatever weapon is at hand. Most of us would consider this to be a dramatic improvement in his ethical makeup, but to the Culture, this means Zakalwe is washed up, and they part ways (he's only brought back for the "present day" plot because of his personal connection to Beychae). Yet because Zakalwe can't just live a quiet life, he ends up freelancing on his own. To the Culture, this is almost criminally reckless. To them, Zakalwe himself is a weapon, one meant to be used in their hands. If he does terrible things in their employ, that's OK, it's for the greater good as calculated by the nearly all-knowing Minds. For him to decide he's not willing to go to those lengths any more for them, but to then apply his own human reason to try to improve the world, is unacceptable (it's implied, although not stated clearly, they wouldn't have allowed it if he hadn't destroyed the knife missile keeping an eye on him). In the interests of non-spoilered content, did anyone else see articles like this one and immediately think "They have knife missiles now!"
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2013 00:48
|
|
|
Lex Talionis posted:You're getting at one of my favorite aspects of the novel. Guess this is all going to have to be spoilered. Thanks heaps for that post, I really appreciate it. Makes a lot of sense, and further enriches the novel!
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2013 00:56
|
|
|
drat, that was A Really Good Post.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2013 00:57
|
|
|
So I just finished Look to Windward. I think the monologue by Hub near the end, the one about the guilt he feels due to the war, is one of my favorite passages in sci-fi.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2013 04:30
|
|
|
Fray posted:So I just finished Look to Windward. I think the monologue by Hub near the end, the one about the guilt he feels due to the war, is one of my favorite passages in sci-fi. Both Look to Windward and Use of Weapons have such emotionally satisfying endings. The last, I don't know, forty pages of each book are completely engaging and thrilling.
|
|
#
?
Mar 14, 2013 04:36
|
|
|
Very bad news - Iain Banks has just announced he has late stage cancer and only has months to live. I've met him in passing a couple of times and he's a nice friendly guy who is happy to talk to his readers - a true gent.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2013 11:38
|
|
|
Baconroll posted:Very bad news - Iain Banks has just announced he has late stage cancer and only has months to live. Came here to post this. Orbit Books' website seems to be going up and down at the moment, so I'll paste the statement Iain wrote here: Iain Banks posted:
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2013 11:56
|
|
|
This is very sad news indeed. I have always enjoyed his writing, and I'm impressed at his willingness to greet the news with humour.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2013 12:03
|
|
|
Oh man. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2013 12:05
|
|
|
Goddamnit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2013 12:06
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2013 12:09
|
|
|
gently caress everything
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2013 12:09
|
|
|
That is the loving worst
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2013 12:10
|
|
|
Horrible news
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2013 12:13
|
|
|
So crushed Got to meet him just a few months ago at a Hydrogen Sonata signing/chat evening in London and he was just as funny, smart and Scottish as his books would have you believe. What horrible news.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2013 12:29
|
|
|
That's very lovely news, really sad.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2013 12:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 00:05 |
|
|
gently caress cancer, gently caress it right in the gall bladder.  Finishing an M Banks novel has always put me right back into a condition of feverishly anticipating the next. Not any more.
|
|
#
?
Apr 3, 2013 12:58
|
|