|
Tendales posted:You know, now I kind of want to put together a game where the players collectively are responsible for a poorly-trained nigh-uncontrollable murderbeast. They can't stop it, they can't get rid of it, all they can do is try and channel it for more or less positive ends. I vaguely remember an old adventure where your boss tells you to go to market and pickup some merchandise he bought. It's a lizard with a bag over its head. The guy hands you the critter and says whatever you do don't take off the bag. The rest of the adventure is getting little baby basilisk back home while rivals or whatever try to get it. Maybe it was a cockatrice.
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2013 22:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 22:00 |
|
|
Tendales posted:You know, now I kind of want to put together a game where the players collectively are responsible for a poorly-trained nigh-uncontrollable murderbeast. They can't stop it, they can't get rid of it, all they can do is try and channel it for more or less positive ends.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2013 23:01
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:Half the games I've ever been in that's been one of the characters. Yup, usually the half mad warrior who just wants to be loved. But I'm always in favor of limiting the character creation rather than taking stuff away in game. In recent years I've been realizing the importance of character progression. To me, creating a real low tier character and seeing that character "grow up" is super rewarding. One of the real benefits of playing roleplaying games.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2013 23:20
|
|
|
Tendales posted:You know, now I kind of want to put together a game where the players collectively are responsible for a poorly-trained nigh-uncontrollable murderbeast. They can't stop it, they can't get rid of it, all they can do is try and channel it for more or less positive ends. my buddy had a game of 3.5 where they found some shapechanging murderbeast in a ship's hold, whose normal form resembled the xenomorphs from "Alien". I forget what monster race it was called, but anyway they named it Fluffy and had it change into a cow when they went to walk it through town. Of course when it saw some children run across the road into an ally, Fluffy the Cow leapt like 50 feet in the air and pounced on the children and devoured their flesh.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2013 05:17
|
|
|
Has anyone else felt like starting a campaign was an "all or nothing" task? What I mean is that I have started two campaigns so far, one 3.5 D&D and one 4E, both dying off before we even hit paragon tier. We've narrowed it down to both burn out (For the 3.5 campaign) and a trouble player for the 4E one. The first one (3.5) basically boiled down to me being inexperienced as a GM (My first real time) and having the trouble player "guide" me as he was used to the rules. What it resulted in was him gaming the system and my lack of knowledge. Then we switched to 4E where he had no idea. So instead of getting used to it he just spent the entire time complaining about how it was different. "What, dual wielding as a Barbarian doesn't mean I get more attacks? Bullshit!" and so on. We put up with it because he's an old friend and because we played at his place. Eventually though, we just sort of stopped playing after starting to dread the game. But now I've started a new campaign. I've put a lot of work into crafting a world/multiverse based around the players and how they shape the extremely young world. I've written scores of notes about how everything works, from Gods to casting magic. I am also much more experienced after running short games a lot. We still have the problem player but he's been less of a problem since I put my foot down and told him to play with us properly or I'll have no problems kicking him out. So I'm cautiously optimistic. But I'm at the point, and so is another friend, that if this campaign doesn't work then we might give up on D&D altogether. Which I don't like the idea of, mainly because the alternative in our circle is Rifts. If this doesn't work we just feel like we keep putting effort in for no reason. Writing lore, organising history and events and encounters for me, getting involved and helping craft the world and really develop a character for him. Has this happened to anyone else? Is it just part of the burnout phase?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2013 09:36
|
|
|
Re: taking away a character's stuff, personally, anything a character Put Effort Into Getting is, to me, sacrosanct. If I'm running Exalted and a dude puts points into Artifact so he can have a hella kickass magic sword, I don't take away the magic sword because the guy paid points for that fuckin' thing at chargen. Characters built around certain pieces of equipstuff fall under the same rubric for me. A dude doesn't build a longbow-shootin' ranger unless he wants to shoot a longbow, and taking it away from him means telling him, in effect, "you can't do the awesome poo poo you wanted to do." That doesn't mean you can't take poo poo away from them. Just make sure it's stuff you gave them. My favorite is "Here, guys, have a cool NPC ally. Isn't he cool? Oh, hey, it's neat how over the last few games you've all become attached to your NPC buddy and gave him nicknames and stuff. That's awesome. Oh, he got kidnapped." The players will go apeshit and swear unholy vengeance upon his kidnappers, because "hey, that's our buddy!" but you haven't nerfed the stuff they built their characters around doing. Go ahead and take all their poo poo - but give them that poo poo first.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2013 09:48
|
|
|
syntaxfunction posted:Has anyone else felt like starting a campaign was an "all or nothing" task? It can be like that, especially for new GMs. It can be really frustrating and especially when you put so much work and love into something and find out that your playerbase isn't interested. I've had it happen to me, it's crushing. But really, part of it is in a way your fault. I try and tell people all the time with gaming that there has to be a degree of buffer between you and that which you create. For GMs, it's the campaign. For players, it's their characters. Without that emotional buffer, when someone comes along and wrecks your poo poo--and it WILL happen--you're going to get hurt by extension, and that kills the fun. Do yourself a favour, run a couple of adventure paths to get your feet wet before delving into full camps. Then, when you're confident with your own abilities enough to run a camp, do the first couple in an established setting before making your own. Work your way up in steps. Edit: DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Everything this guy said. THIS. EVERY SINGLE LETTER THIS. I support this view wholeheartedly as a GM and a player. More appropriately-directed ire that way, plus you get a better feel for what the players like and don't. If you take something away and they don't put forth a significant effort into its retrieval, it's clear that this thing is more important to you than they. Conversely, if they put a lot of effort in, it's clear that this is something that the players like for whatever reason. Maybe it's a power boost, or maybe it's just really well-written. Either way, you did your job and made it worth keeping around. Lazy Bear fucked around with this message at 10:15 on Feb 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2013 10:11
|
|
|
Lazy Bear posted:It can be like that, especially for new GMs. It can be really frustrating and especially when you put so much work and love into something and find out that your playerbase isn't interested. I've had it happen to me, it's crushing. But really, part of it is in a way your fault. I try and tell people all the time with gaming that there has to be a degree of buffer between you and that which you create. For GMs, it's the campaign. For players, it's their characters. Without that emotional buffer, when someone comes along and wrecks your poo poo--and it WILL happen--you're going to get hurt by extension, and that kills the fun. That's basically what I've done. I started running short one-off games based off the adventure modules, then short one offs in general, then short arc campaigns in pre-done settings and now I'm finally doing a full on campaign. The world is basically a playground for the players. I have no attachment to specific parts of the world, and in fact today we had a session which was getting the world and setting fleshed out to how the players want it, not me. I go by the rule of cool, so anything my players think of that won't break the game I'll accommodate. I have little arcs and individual missions that link together, but no solid overall campaign because I know how quickly things go off the rails, and that's okay to me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2013 10:16
|
|
|
syntaxfunction posted:Has anyone else felt like starting a campaign was an "all or nothing" task? What I mean is that I have started two campaigns so far, one 3.5 D&D and one 4E, both dying off before we even hit paragon tier. We've narrowed it down to both burn out (For the 3.5 campaign) and a trouble player for the 4E one. The first one (3.5) basically boiled down to me being inexperienced as a GM (My first real time) and having the trouble player "guide" me as he was used to the rules. What it resulted in was him gaming the system and my lack of knowledge. It depends on the prep time you've put into your setting, and on the system I think. There is nothing more disheartening than building up a cool world and then never really getting to explore it, or amazing things you came up with getting missed because the players 'go left' That said, I'm mostly an ad-lib kinda GM. I often don't know what a person or place is going to be like until the players interact with it, so as long as I've got a big list of random names and a few dangers I can roll out I've got what I need. Besides world building, how much prep do 3.5/4e/Pathfinder take mechanically? How much thought and effort has to go into a danger like a rickety rope bridge, or a band of war hungry halflings, or the traps in the altar of pain? You said you've run a few one shots that worked well, one shot are great starting points, you can have an idea for how the campaign could go, ad then use NPC's the characters react well to for the notable roles in the campaign. Maybe experiment with some of the pick up an play games out there? These days there are a lot of options for games that do different things, different systems for different kinds of fiction and stories. If world building and adventures with your buddies is the big draw for playing, perhaps look at ways to make that a bigger part of the game for everyone? EDIT: pretty much what you did in the first session is a great start. Don't be afraid to continue asking your players things about the world when you're playing, it keeps them invested in the world as well as their characters, and can help you stave off creative burnout. madadric fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Feb 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2013 11:01
|
|
|
Alright, I ran a timed search challenge with very deadly repercussions today. Found no rules for an encounter like it online or in the books, so I suppose I'll share it here. Surprisingly it went very well and I recommend giving it a shot as a break from standard D&D or Pathfinder encounters. The players had to enter a large museum map, patrolled by Balors, Glabrezu's and other high level demons capable of absolutely TPK killing them within a couple of rounds. Inside the thrashed museum, they had to find a scheduling book that was somewhere within. The four players had invisibility and a greater protection from evil cast upon them. The invisibility would last until they made an action like opening something, or throwing a rock in the presence of the demons, and the protection from evil would last until they touched one of the demons, or otherwise provoked it into an attack. The spell effects lasted 20 minutes. I started the timer after the mission was given and the spells were cast. Once they became visible to the demons, they would try to engage them in conversation, or otherwise block their path. The trick as the DM in these encounters is to try to waste the players time, getting the player to bite, or getting the player to make a dumb move. Basically, you try to trick the player into getting into conversations, or touching a demon. You can do this by blocking them in certain areas, as a failed tumble check would result in contact, and become grounds for the demon to kill that player. Succeeding in the mission was finding the book, which was locked away at the front of the museum, and remembering one line of information in it. The mission however, only ends once the players get the gently caress off of the map. Whenever our thief read the book a demon grabbed it from her to further taunt the players into acting. A distraction of a "librarian" inside that needed safe passage outside was also in the museum, to further distract the players into wasting their 20 minutes. The players didn't bite on the succubus, or make any bad decisions during the encounter so everyone lived. By just the skin of their teeth. The players finished the mission with 16 seconds left on the clock and afterwards said they loved it, for whatever that's worth.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2013 11:48
|
|
|
God Of Paradise posted:Alright, I ran a timed search challenge with very deadly repercussions today. This is a really cool idea! How did you handle describing the world and out of character questions? Did you ever stop the timer? I've tried using a timer in combat, to force my players to make quick decisions and think on their feet. It didn't go down so well since me describing the battlefield and the turn and explaining rule question kept interrupting the "combat feel" of the timer. But I suppose if every player knows what they can do then that problem goes away. syntaxfunction posted:Has anyone else felt like starting a campaign was an "all or nothing" task? This has happened a LOT to me. Most campaigns I play or run never get finished. Mostly they drag on and we go on a pseudo-hiatus for a while or they just never end until we get bored and do something else. I've seen a GM ask the players if he can't just tell them how the story ended. I've seen mid campaign switches. So to me your problem is really common. I think it's inherent when it takes so much time finishing a campaign. What I try do to these days is limit it. Make sure your players aren't just fapping about in the village hitting on the barwench. Keep them on track and with things going on. To some groups running a year long campaign might be standard but to me that's just impossible. I try to limit my campaigns to within a month or two. IE 4-6 play sessions. Also, only put in enough work for it to be worth it. Don't spend 6 months prepping something you might play once or twice. Begin small and work on the campaigns as you play, in between the sessions.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2013 12:35
|
|
|
SafetyTrain posted:This is a really cool idea! How did you handle describing the world and out of character questions? Did you ever stop the timer? I answered everything with the timer on. All description was done with the timer on. Most of it was me moving pieces around the grid and mocking/scaring the players. The demons also lied to the players, offering them incredible rewards, and gold for contracts to serve in the blood war upon death. They also threatened, bluffing as to know where the players live. One demon went as far as trying to pitch a made up adventure hook to the players, just to kill time. That's the thing. They have 20 minutes, period, end of story. Tell them this before they start. Plus, the players have to roll when searching. Little clues around the museum aided them in finding out where the book was. It was locked in an office in the front lobby/visitors center. If someone fails at a skill, they must be allowed to reroll on that same task for this to work. When they had questions as players, I had fun trying to drag out answers to their questions, and tempting them to do things other than scurry around looking for a book. They didn't bite, so they lived. A timer in combat would not work. *As a side note, if you want to, you could theoretically have the monsters they cannot touch try to do things like feint them, or summon other monsters and tell the monsters to attack them. The summoned monsters won't of course, it's all a bluff to get the player to unsheathe his weapon out and take an ill advised swipe. God Of Paradise fucked around with this message at 13:52 on Feb 10, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2013 13:40
|
|
|
Some of the Rogue Trader premade adventures do that sort of thing, although it's less about actual real time and more about rounds. The players have a week to stop a rogue craftworld from shutting the Maw (basically a big evil DS9 wormhole) and trapping them in non-imperial space forever. So you break that down into 168 hours. Every round in space takes half an hour. They need to get onto the craftworld, this takes time (how much depends on what path they take, but at least some hours). Once on the craftworld there are fights, there are opportunities for looting and exploration, there's a lot of stuff to waste time on. Odds are the players are gonna save the Maw. However, the craftworld is also gonna destroy a fleet of ships led by an NPC who they may well be friends with at this point, and a space station that is one of the main hubs in the game. This stuff happens in a day or so unless they do something about it or stop the craftworld very quickly. So there is time pressure, there is the threat of total campaign-ending disaster, but there's also the sense that "we've got time to loot this one place, c'mon man." And maybe it's even true, if they loot it quickly and roll well. It's a bit different from an actual irl timer, but having narrative hours ticking away is effective imo.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2013 20:16
|
|
|
It sounds like the point of WoG's exercise was to get the players to waste time to later put pressure on them with the clock. But if you want to try something similar while being able to put in all the flavor text you want you could always try a round timer. Instead of 20 minutes tell the group that every time the party acts the timer goes down one tick. If they can't get through your puzzles/encounters in X rounds of investigating/fighting/etc. then the bad stuff happens.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2013 23:17
|
|
|
4e campaign. Isolated island cut off from the rest of world, ruined city from ancient but advanced civilization that made pacts with devils, etc. I'm about to give the party some items made of Orium, which is a magical metal that was made in the ruined city. Everyone the party as met talks up this stuff, but the party hasn't gotten their hands on any gear made from it, and in our next session they're getting a surprise set. In addition to some other nice features, Orium Armor, weapons, and artifacts provide Resist Fire. I'm going to be adding a twist where if you have innate fire resistance from some other source (racial, magic item), the armor's Resist Fire becomes Resist All. This is because a group of devils are close to rediscovering the smelting process for orium. The players have been told that if these devils figure out the secret of Orium, it would be a bad thing. After learning this bit of information, they should realize exactly how bad devils getting access an unlimited supply of armor made from this stuff would be. Building on this twist, there is a drug called Fiend's Breath, which is essentially cocaine made from devil bones, except it grants those who take it fire resistance. So, if you're on Fiend's Breath and wearing Orium Armor, you become pretty buff. The party hasn't encountered Fiend's Breath yet; its part of a few quest chains they never took (they didn't get involved with the faction that would have had it as side chain, and they killed off the NPC who was the hook for the other chains). But I'm going to have them encounter the substance shortly after obtaining the Orium Armor. (I've not yet planned out exactly how yet, so suggestions welcome). I want to find a not-too-subtle way to show the party that taking this drug = bad things may happen without beating them over the head. Fiend's Breath is highly addictive, and if they use too much, addicts will start needing to take some every day to avoid penalties; I'm toying with essentially will-based attacks that make them dose up at the higher end of progression. I'm not looking go all FATAL with the addiction stuff, just like the character has to make a will save or during the night they went out and bought some more. But if the players get hooked, I want it to be the result of "I know the risks and its worth it to get resist all for this next fight" and not "Oh wait, poo poo, I didn't know I was going to get addicted and/or that it was going to be bad". Here are some ideas I came up with. (In addition to strung out addicts) -The will find out the "evil" dwarven faction, who are slavers and do 99% the smelting on the island, gives it to their forge slaves to both make them more productive in the hot forges, and to control them. -The heir of the evil dwarven faction, (who the party killed) used flaming armor and had a major addiction to the stuff. The party doesn't know he was addicted. This one I'm mainly not sure how to get this information to them, or more specifically, how to get the party interested enough to want to investigate that angle/drop enough bread crumbs they'll get there quickly. -Their dealer warning them about how powerful the stuff is. -Toothless prospector walks by and tells them Fiend's Breath rotted out his teeth. Also, if anyone know of disease progression charts for addiction in 4e? I'm working on my own, but wouldn't mind comparing notes. Guesticles fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Feb 11, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2013 06:53
|
|
P.S. STILL COMPLETELY DEVOID OF MERIT
|
You could also just have a beloved NPC go through addiction. That way you are in control of when and how it's revealed.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2013 16:15
|
|
|
It's a long shot, but does anyone happen to know of any good places to find, like, Tolkein-esque war chants/folk songs/ballads/whatever to rip-off (or alter, I guess, if you're into that whole "effort" thing) for games? I think it'd be cool if before a big battle or something all the friendly troops started singing an old war song in solidarity or to intimidate the enemy or whatever. The best I've found so far is PoemHunter.com, but it's mostly modern music from what I've seen.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2013 05:43
|
|
|
Try looking up the band Turisas; they might have something you like. May not be Tolkein-esque, though. I need ideas for villains and B-D ranked heroes for a Supers campaign. They're playing villians from the look at their characters so far, so I'm trying to set up proper encounters for them. I just need a sentence or so to describe them so I can properly stat them up; but I'm at a loss for interesting powers. Here's what I got right now; most of them are 'Evil' but are 'Better' than the actual villains; but they're still pretty malicious. Klashes ruthlessly abuses her company's power as well as her hero name; Lady Savage has very little care for bystanders; Preacher Matthews "Religion" is closer to a brainwashing cult, etc etc. code:Edit: This is GURPS; also I forgot to include the party; which I want to avoid having overlap with them. The party: Mecha ninja Priestess of Lolth (21st century) Hawkeye/Gambit lovechild. Alucard from Hellsing abridged series Male Shadowcat Venom TalonDemonKing fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Feb 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2013 14:06
|
|
|
Doomsayer posted:It's a long shot, but does anyone happen to know of any good places to find, like, Tolkein-esque war chants/folk songs/ballads/whatever to rip-off (or alter, I guess, if you're into that whole "effort" thing) for games? I think it'd be cool if before a big battle or something all the friendly troops started singing an old war song in solidarity or to intimidate the enemy or whatever. The best I've found so far is PoemHunter.com, but it's mostly modern music from what I've seen. The Redwall books have good songs and poetry that are militaristic, including some sea shanties! http://personal.palouse.net/gsk/Greystripe/poems.htm
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2013 14:33
|
|
|
TalonDemonKing posted:I need ideas for villains and B-D ranked heroes for a Supers campaign. In no particular order: Passant: A female sidekick/hench for Checkmate. Agile and good with traps, immobilization, and misdirection. Wants to become her own villain but is hamstrung by a lack of funds, so she's sticking with Checkmate until she embezzles enough to strike out on her own. Ice Siècle: Ice powers, obviously. Estranged scion of a wealthy family, Ice Siècle is convinced that the world is stagnant and that civilization has fallen to decadence. He attacks and steals from the wealthy and powerful in order to throw them out of what he sees as their fatal patterns of greed and conspicuous consumption. Higgs: Higgs can manipulate mass and density in himself, in others, and in inanimate objects. He does his best to be a good, law-abiding citizen, but the struggle of maintaining a double life has led to him stealing enough to live on a few times. Abrams: Works with Higgs, but she's not nearly as idealistic. Abrams stores incoming energy (kinetic, heat, etc.) and can channel it into kicks and punches, and is nigh-invulnerable as a result. She once let a guy with a machine gun fire at her until he ran out of rounds, then had Higgs increase her foot's mass and drop-kicked the gunner into orbit. Unlike Higgs, "Abrams" is this "hero"'s real name. Pike: A nominally non-powered acrobat who flings poison darts and uses eskrima to fight. Pike is on her own side; it's usually not obvious whom she's shown up to help out until she hits someone, and even then she might turn on anyone else in the fray if she sees an advantage in it. Βίος (pronounced "BEE-awss"): Yes, he's pretentious enough to use the Greek characters. Βίος is a magic-user; he can drain life at a touch (though not instantly; it's a slow drain that requires physical contact), restore "life" to the dead (likewise, a slow process that requires touch), and exert hypnotic control over the minds of the living (not slow at all, and requires only eye contact). He's not above raising zombies to fight or work for him - or killing to create the bodies he needs to make the zombies. He doesn't consider himself evil, just utilitarian, but he's also a sociopath and sees other humans as lesser beings to be used. A foil for Dr. MalTactus and Preacher Matthews. Helpful? SneezeOfTheDecade fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Feb 14, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2013 15:22
|
|
|
Besesoth posted:
Higgs needs to have worked as a boatswain at some point.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2013 19:08
|
|
|
Doomsayer posted:It's a long shot, but does anyone happen to know of any good places to find, like, Tolkein-esque war chants/folk songs/ballads/whatever to rip-off (or alter, I guess, if you're into that whole "effort" thing) for games? I think it'd be cool if before a big battle or something all the friendly troops started singing an old war song in solidarity or to intimidate the enemy or whatever. The best I've found so far is PoemHunter.com, but it's mostly modern music from what I've seen. Have the NPCs do a Haka, haha.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2013 19:33
|
|
|
The White Dragon posted:Have the NPCs do a Haka, haha. Funny story, I played a Maori Barbarian at one point. Freaked the players out when he did a pre-battle haka.
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2013 19:46
|
|
|
copy pasta from the D&D thread: Quick, name one good cloud-based asynchronous map editor that I can use in a play-by-post. I'm trying to start another game and not stupid enough to save anything related to it on my computer this time. I distrust Roll20 and most virtual tables, and I want something I can keep tabs on from work or my iPad. Is Pixlr any good for plopping down a map and moving tokens around, then saving the result as a .PNG that can be posted in-thread?
|
|
#
?
Feb 14, 2013 20:07
|
|
|
How do I make a player race for a system that has very little following(from what I've seen) and only has three books in total? I'm trying to get one of my players the race he wants, but with limitations that balance the race against the other races. The game in question is Exodus and the race he wants to play is a robot, more specifically a flying eye bot like from Fallout. Exodus was originally going to be called FallOut, but the licensing fell through. The biggest problems are 1) the exp table isn't where he would like it at, making him leveler slower then everyone else in the party 2) he isn't healed by traditional healing items so I have to give him his own healing ability based on repair checks and I am trying to determine if it's better to have the repair check heal a set amount of HP or have better repair checks heal for more 3) balancing everything against everything else!?!?!?
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2013 16:33
|
|
|
SlayVus posted:How do I make a player race for a system that has very little following(from what I've seen) and only has three books in total? This might sound lazy, but hey it's kind of my thing. When in doubt, say no. It kills a lot of problems later on down the road when you encounter some form of balance issue one way or the other. It might seem like a cop-out but you'll save yourself a headache later.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2013 17:54
|
|
|
I may have plotted myself into a bit of a corner. Backstory: a while back, my party dealt with an Ifrit sultan. They know him as absolutely loyal to Imix, the Prince of Fire, and strictly opposed to the Cult of the Elder Elemental Eye. A fair bit later they took one a mission from him - deliver a crate of mysterious goods to followers of Imix, accompanied by one of the sultan's servants, a fire titan who is equally loyal to Imix and opposed to the Cult, but also fiercely loyal to the sultan. If you know 4E lore, it won't come as much of a surprise that the Imix people turned out to be in league with the Cult, and the mysterious goods their artifacts. In the ensuing battle the party went to great lengths to keep the titan alive, and afterwards convinced him his master was being made a fool of by Imix. (The truth, by the way.) He remained skeptical but did promise to return to his master and try and get to the bottom of the issue. So: the sultan is absolutely loyal to Imix and would never go against his orders, but would also never willingly ally with the Cult. The titan is loyal to Imix but now has fairly strong doubts, would also never willingly ally with the cult, but is also fiercely loyal to the sultan. Now I have the big end-of-campaign battle coming up, with the armies of the Cult and its allies going up against an alliance of Good. Well, of Good, Unaligned, and Evil But Not Completely Off The Deep End. I'm envisioning all major NPCs showing up and playing some part in the proceedings. Thing is, presumably the sultan would be under Imix' orders to show up and lay waste to the weakling mortals, but inevitably he'd spot the massive army of chaos mutants on the same side as himself. And that's where I'm hitting a wall right now, can't really imagine how things would play out from there. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Feb 18, 2013 |
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2013 18:23
|
|
|
As far as a resolution, the Sultan could show up on the side of the Imix / Cult and then deliberately hamstring the battle, leaving an opening for the NPCs to dart in and change the tide. The reveal of the giant chaos mutant army can confirm what the NPCs told the Titan.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2013 18:51
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:I may have plotted myself into a bit of a corner. So he does all he can do, which is nothing. Sits in his tent while the battle rages. The tide turns in the Trojans' favor and it's only the death of his close friend Patroclus that gets him fighting again. You don't have to pattern your sultan after Achilles completely, but having him sitting in his tent at a crucial time certainly gives latitude to the PCs to talk him into a course of action, or the opportunity to be difference-makers themselves.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2013 18:57
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:Thing is, presumably the sultan would be under Imix' orders to show up and lay waste to the weakling mortals, but inevitably he'd spot the massive army of chaos mutants on the same side as himself. And that's where I'm hitting a wall right now, can't really imagine how things would play out from there. I like the previous answers, but when I'm in doubt (as you may have noticed), I tend to ask "why?" (or, more generally, ask about motivations). Why is the sultan absolutely loyal to Imix, and why is he just as absolutely opposed to the Cult? Is he prepared to take the fallout if he refuses to fight alongside the Cult, especially if, as a result, Imix's side loses? (What is said fallout?) Could he say, "Well, if Imix is backing the Cult, then I guess they can't be as bad as I thought" and have it be reasonable to him? Or "If Imix is backing the Cult, maybe I don't know him as well as I thought I did"? (Moreover, what did Imix think was going to happen when the sultan showed up and saw the Cult on Imix's side of the battle? How does that reflect reality, and how will the sultan react when he finds that out?)
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2013 19:12
|
|
|
Answering any or all of those questions would put the level of thought I employ in my planning into an embarrassing light. It has a lot to do with me browsing the books and grabbing bits and pieces of lore here and there with no shits given about the big picture, only trusting in my ability to tie things together in a halfway convincing whole somewhere down the line. That said, I can see the sultan go for either of those reactions; that's kind of my problem, I haven't really developed him well enough as a character to point towards one over the other with certainty. I think the Achilles idea would work really well, though. Apart from solving my problem it would also highlight how dire the situation is - here's the all-powerful ruler of a city in another dimension, with armies of archons at his beck and call, and the best he can think of is sit to the side and go "well that's this world hosed."
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2013 19:49
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:Answering any or all of those questions would put the level of thought I employ in my planning into an embarrassing light. It has a lot to do with me browsing the books and grabbing bits and pieces of lore here and there with no shits given about the big picture, only trusting in my ability to tie things together in a halfway convincing whole somewhere down the line. Then reach into your back of GM tricks and pull out the one weapon against which no defense can prevail. Make poo poo up. If you don't know the answer, create it. Just keep a note of what you do create for consistency's sake. It doesn't need to adhere to canon, and indeed if it doesn't there's a better thing because it'll throw those players who did their homework and read ahead a curveball.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2013 20:45
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:Answering any or all of those questions would put the level of thought I employ in my planning into an embarrassing light.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2013 20:50
|
|
|
There are a couple of ways I'd go with this. -Fire Titan leads a rebellion. The Fire Titan believes allying with Imix/Cult will result in the the Sultan being killed or similar, so he starts to form a rebellion to save the Sultan from himself. The party could get involved. Great success would be a mostly-bloodless rebellion that gets the sultan on the side of Order. A moderate success would be a rather bloody civil war, the end of which the Sultan makes order and backs the side of Order with a smaller contingient. A minor success/failure would leave the city in an extended civil war, unable to contribute to either side. Failure would have the Sultan supporting Imix/Cult to level of failure. -The Party discovers or has idea put in their heads that if they assassinate the Sultan, which would put the Fire Titan in charge, who join the side of Order. but if they are found out, they will gain the enmity of the Fire Titan for all time. -The party convinces the Sultan to sit the war out, or maybe limit his support to a non-combat role. -Imix gave his orders to the Sultan on scrolls or some written form. Provide these written orders to the PCs, and let them try to figure out ways to exploit them, which lets the Sultan follow the letter of his orders, but maybe not the intent.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2013 20:53
|
|
|
Another option would be that the Sultan, having seen the final proof that Imix and the Cult are on the same side, commits honourable suicide (can an Ifrit do that?) rather than serve under a master who is also his enemy. The Fire Titan, seeing his master kill himself out of shame, goes berserk, kills a bunch of the Imix/Cult forces, and joins up with the PCs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 18, 2013 22:20
|
|
|
Luigi's Discount Porn Bin posted:Another option would be that the Sultan, having seen the final proof that Imix and the Cult are on the same side, commits honourable suicide (can an Ifrit do that?) rather than serve under a master who is also his enemy. The Fire Titan, seeing his master kill himself out of shame, goes berserk, kills a bunch of the Imix/Cult forces, and joins up with the PCs. Kanshi amoung the Djinn? An interesting concept. I concur with this idea. /weeaboo
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2013 01:53
|
|
|
I'm in favor of the 'hamstring the battle' idea, myself. The Sultan is entirely loyal to Imix, so when Imix says 'take part in this battle, never mind the fact that you're fighting on the side of the people you hate,' he'll do it. He just won't do it well. "Oh dear," I can envision him saying, "I appear, in my zeal, to have charged too far into the enemy lines and am now surrounded. When I am vanquished, all of the plans and maps and information that I have in my right breast pocket will fall into the enemy's clutches. Oh, woe is me. If only Lord Imix hadn't ordered me to fight my very hardest, perhaps I would not have let my lust for battle lead me in to this obvious trap which will provide my enemies - who I actually quite like on a personal level - the vital information they need to see all the Cult's plans undone! Oh what a fool I am. Oh! I appear to have been struck by an arrow. Grievously wounded, I must surrender! What? No, I know I only took 4 HP of damage. That's grievous in my book, pal. I surrender! Here, have the intelligence. Note the bits I circled in red."
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2013 06:43
|
|
|
My Lovely Horse posted:Now I have the big end-of-campaign battle coming up, with the armies of the Cult and its allies going up against an alliance of Good. Well, of Good, Unaligned, and Evil But Not Completely Off The Deep End. I'm envisioning all major NPCs showing up and playing some part in the proceedings. When the PCs show up, treat them to a scene where Imix or someone directly and explicitly on Imix's orders betrays the sultan in a clear manner. While the sultan is busy going 'woe is me i have been betrayed by my master', give the PCs a chance to rescue him. That also gives you an excuse to keep the sultan out of the thick of the main battle: he's injured, or unable to come to terms with the betrayal. If there's anything gaming fiction has taught me, it's that the bad guys are always betraying each other, even if the 'why' of it makes no sense. If you need a reason, maybe the sultan has an item that would power up the Cult, or maybe the soldiers under the sultan's command would fight with the Cult even if the sultan wouldn't...if only the sultan wasn't around to command them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2013 08:13
|
|
|
How about: Imix had a clever lie ready for why the Cult would be on his side if the battle. He wasn't banking on the Titan having spilled the beans about those artefacts. The Sultan started asking difficult questions; Imix resorted to cruder means. Some sort of mind control or suchlike. The Titan relays this information to the PCs, along with where Imix's pet mind controller will be on the battlefield. If they can take him out and leave the Sultan standing, they get an efreet sultan on their side, otherwise they have to fend the Sultan off too.
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2013 09:27
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 12, 2024 22:00 |
|
|
I don't know if anyone is interested, but I used that Obsidian Portal site to throw together a wiki for my current campaign. Based around the travels of three companions, who have unleashed ancient evils, resealed them, and are currently running a nice little tavern with their albino hedgehog which is the size of a horse. http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/the-middle-kingdom-dawnsealers
|
|
#
?
Feb 19, 2013 17:13
|
|
