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Dross posted:X- Mt. Gagazet Seymour I've heard a lot of people complain about Yunalesca too. I don't remember having any problems with her, but I've heard more than one person say they gave up on X because of that fight. It's been years since I've played X, so I'm not sure why that would be. I do remember Mt. Gagazet Seymour being a massive pain in the rear end, and took me five or six tries at least. W.T. Fits posted:You forgot Tidus. It never got to me, but I remember reading about tons of people breaking controllers over how frustrating Chocobo racing was back when that game came out. Oh Jesus gently caress that chocobo racing game holy poo poo, I think that is the biggest reason why X is the only FF game I've beaten that I didn't do a second playthrough of.
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Feb 12, 2013 06:58
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Tidus is irritating but relatively quick. Once you get it down you can probably get it in like, 10 minutes, and it's easy to keep retrying. It's annoying for sure but not as bad as: Dodge 200 lightning bolts over like a loving hour, restart if you mess up (Lulu) Catch Butterflies which are sometimes physically impossible to catch in the time limit they give you (Kimahri) Play hours and hours of Blitzball and actually win (Wakka) But yeah on the chocobo race I literally got 0:00:00 once and the game didn't acknowledge it because I was off by a fraction of a millisecond. Once I got it down I ended up doing it on all of my friends' files, it's one of those things where it's easier once you figure it out. I think Yuna you just had to get all the Aeons which you should be doing anyway, Auron was a combination of seeing all the Memory Spheres and catching a bunch of monsters I think??
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Feb 12, 2013 07:08
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Auron was a combination of seeing all the Memory Spheres and catching a bunch of monsters I think?? Just catching monsters (need the guy to make a total of 10 Area/Species Creations); the spheres give him more overdrives. So, it's another one that's tedious but not difficult.
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Feb 12, 2013 07:13
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Evil Fluffy posted:FFMQ was the height of As far as rock goes, definitely.
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Feb 12, 2013 07:42
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Twelve by Pies posted:I've heard a lot of people complain about Yunalesca too. I don't remember having any problems with her, but I've heard more than one person say they gave up on X because of that fight. It's been years since I've played X, so I'm not sure why that would be. I do remember Mt. Gagazet Seymour being a massive pain in the rear end, and took me five or six tries at least. Yunalesca and Seymour are two of the more difficult FFX bosses because they don't really play by the rules. Seymour's Total Annihilation is exactly that: massive death to the whole party. If you're a little underleveled then it'll probably punch through even Auron and Wakka. Normally, FFX bosses don't go after the whole party with something that devastating without a good way to avoid it (Evrae's poison breath and swoop move hurt like hell but can be navigated around, literally, and most other hard hitters up to that point can be Aeon'd) but Total Annihilation is literally "You must have this much HP or you die". It doesn't help that Seymopur also masscasts Dispel while you can only set up Shell one action at a time outside of Overdrives and who the hell is going to use Kimahri for Mighty Guard and why would you bring your lowest HP party member in for a guy who's thing is hitting hard non-stop? Of course, this is discounting stuff like opening with a OHKO combo or zapping Aeons. Yunalesca on the other hand is, for one, a slog. She has three forms, each hitting pretty hard. To top it off, she uses Zombie to mess with your gameplan (turtling with Al Bhed Potions has been a pretty decent tactic up until now) and eventually uses it for the most aggrivating "Gotcha!" in the series. Up until her third form, it has been the right move essentially all throughout the series to heal negative status effects. Well, if you were diligent with keeping everyone healthy, enjoy a no questions asked TPK in Mega Death. Oh, and avoiding that? While it can be inferred that Zombie stops Death, there's nothing ingame that actually says that. Obviously, to an experienced player, these two bosses aren't that bad, if you know their tricks. That said, tricks are pretty much all turn based RPG bosses have, so it's rather like saying "well a car isn't that expensive if you have as much money as you need  ". For a new player, though, it's entirely understandable why these two would be cited as the most difficult.
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Feb 12, 2013 07:56
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Play hours and hours of Blitzball and actually win (Wakka) This was easy once you get Jecht Shot at the beginning and a Goalie to take over for Keepa once he gets a cannon for his leg. Not to mention getting good crippling skills for defense (Wither and Sleep tackle/pass  ).
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Feb 12, 2013 08:31
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The GIG posted:This was easy once you get Jecht Shot at the beginning and a Goalie to take over for Keepa once he gets a cannon for his leg. Not to mention getting good crippling skills for defense (Wither and Sleep tackle/pass I did get it but it took a pretty long time. You have to get every Wakka Limit Break, then you have a chance at the Sigil and the prizes are semi-random anyway.
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Feb 12, 2013 08:46
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I did get it but it took a pretty long time. You have to get every Wakka Limit Break, then you have a chance at the Sigil and the prizes are semi-random anyway. I guess I never noticed because I log a lot of Blitzball time for fun. Yes, I am "that" guy.
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Feb 12, 2013 08:48
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:I did get it but it took a pretty long time. You have to get every Wakka Limit Break, then you have a chance at the Sigil and the prizes are semi-random anyway.
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Feb 12, 2013 09:07
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Ross posted:I don't think so, no Yes you can. I enjoyed using it for crazy stuff in endgame. Namely Quick + Jump with dual wielding is hilarious.
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Feb 12, 2013 09:50
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Cardboard Fox posted:A lot of people I've talked to had trouble with the Kimahri solo fight, but I've never had trouble with it since I never used Kimahri until that point. During the battle I just get spammed with all these new monster abilities which instantly fills up the overdrive meter making the fight into a joke. Lancet is a pretty big reason, as that combined with his ~70 starting MP means he doesn't have to worry about MP issues like the other three guys. Bringing him down Tidus or Wakka's paths essentially gives him all their abilities, plus Piercing - hard to say no to that, plus his solid starting HP and Strength. Alternatively he's also the fastest route to Reflect/Curaga/Holy. Just break him into Rikku's route, wait by the Use node till Spherimorph, then use that level 2 Lock and go crazy with your unspent Sphere Levels. If his Overdrives weren't so bad (especially compared to Use) Kimahri'd be pretty solid, really.
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Feb 12, 2013 10:18
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Kimahri's problem is that he's a jack of all trades character in a game of specialists where every specialist will get used every fight. In theory, Kimahri can fill any role you need him to. In practice, he'll either fill whatever role is most powerful (hint: Rikku's) or he'll just never get used. If this were FFVI and you had to select a limited party from the cast Kimahri's worth would shoot up: being able to Steal and Use like Rikku while taking and giving hits like Auron would be fantastic in that case. Unfortunately, in FFX, you can maximize everyone's upsides and minimize their downsides with the character switching system. This makes Kimahri pretty much pointless. That's not to say he's bad. No, it's quite the opposite: he can do anything in the game almost as well as another character without exposing their downsides. In practice this usually means he can Steal and Use alongside Rikku without the latter's bad defenses. This is a consequence of Steal and Use being incredibly useful rather than any quality of Kimahri. Even outside of that, he makes a good backup to any of the guys, since most of them like a second user of their skills who can contribute in the physical beats. He even handles Yuna and Lulu's jobs well until you remember that items exist and black magic is bad. His overdrives handle a touch of everything: in true Blue Mage fashion he's got an answer for any enemy. With all of these advantages, Kimahri will help out a lot in any run of FFX if you let him. Of course, there still remains the central problem. Why use Kimahri to do someone else's job when you have that character and they're better at it anyway? Auron, Wakka, and Lulu hit harder, while Tidus, Yuna, and Rikku act faster. Seed Cannon will never outdo Slice and Dice, Shooting Star, or Attack Reels, Aqua Breath and Nova will never outdo Fury (a sad outcome indeed), Mighty Guard and White Wind don't even begin to touch Mix, and Kimahri can't even match Summon, never mind Grand Summon. It's kind of funny. Kimahri manages to be a good, even great, character, but there's no reason to use him. Rosalie_A fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Feb 12, 2013 |
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Feb 12, 2013 10:50
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I would use Kimahri if I had access to his blue magic at all times and his overdrive allowed the player to cast an upgraded version of their Blue Magic spell of choice for free. Sorta like Lulu's overdrive except the "upgrade" would be more interesting than repeating the spell over and over.
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Feb 12, 2013 14:41
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I hope they release this supposed iOS remake of FF5 soon, I feel like playing it now with this recent chat. I've heard that FF6 doesn't have the exalted status in Japan that it does in the US, which is why we've gotten a million remakes/releases of FF1-4 but nothing for FF6 except for the GBA version (which is quite good I think) and the PlayStation port 
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Feb 12, 2013 15:13
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There's a lot of factors who play into FF6's lack-of-popularity in Japan. They got FF5 before it and so a lot of the unique class stuff isn't as standout. It's the classes individualized to specific characters (and, admittedly, some new stuff) and so it isn't as shocking as going from 4-6. In some ways it may even have felt like a downgrade. (Going from FFV's super-open system to FF6's "spam autocrossbow to win" system) The story and general tone are not as striking because they were paralleling what was gong on in Japanese media in that rough timeframe. (In fact, in good S-later-S-E tradition, they were a bit behind the curve.) It just wasn't that shocking while English-speaking gamers were probably stunned by the entire WoR transition. I also recall hearing that the WoR's general nonlinearity wasn't as popular there. It left people feeling unfocused and apparently a lot of people got to the WoR and just got bored. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Feb 12, 2013 |
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Feb 12, 2013 15:37
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I got to the WOR and got bored first time through. It does really feel unfocused, like there are a bunch of side quests but instead of choosing what to do you kind of are expected to do all of it anyway. Like first time through you kind of had to use a guide and I hate stuff like that.
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Feb 12, 2013 16:00
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The lack of much of a story beyond the first hour or so in the WOR always bothered me. The WOB is a much stronger portion of the game to me but I think that's a fairly common opinion.
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Feb 12, 2013 16:20
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I keep having dreams that every RPG I've played adapts the Final Fantasy V job system. Is this normal?
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Feb 12, 2013 17:44
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ImpAtom posted:I also recall hearing that the WoR's general nonlinearity wasn't as popular there. It left people feeling unfocused and apparently a lot of people got to the WoR and just got bored. I really hope that's not the influence behind making X and XIII extremely linear then. Was XII popular enough that it didn't suggest that Japanese gamers like linearity? ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Feb 12, 2013 |
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Feb 12, 2013 18:02
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ApplesandOranges posted:I really hope that's not the influence behind making X and XIII extremely linear then. Was XII popular enough that it didn't suggest that Japanese gamers linearity? Actually FFXII was one of the least popular in Japan. At least part of FFXIII's extreme focus on linearity was likely due to the fact that the Japanese reception to FFXII was pretty drat tepid mixed with flat-out dislike. Keep in mind that FFX is the most popular FF game in Japan, or at least fights heavily for the top spot and usually wins. At least part of FFXIII's (many) problems is the result of S-E's usual response to criticism: dive as far possible in the opposite direction even if it doesn't actually help the gameplay. You can see it hilariously clearly with the FFXIII trilogy where each game is basically going "You didn't like the last game? Well check this poo poo out!!" as opposed to trying to make a cohesive product. This gets particularly schizophrenic when they try to appeal to Japanese and Western tastes at the same time despite the two asking for different things. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Feb 12, 2013 |
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Feb 12, 2013 18:03
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:use thunder rod as an item, kill it in one hit. That makes you forfeit a Hero Ring later though  THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Play hours and hours of Blitzball and actually win (Wakka) Whether Blitzball is rear end-easy or rear end-hard for the entire game depends solely on one quick time event. Evil Fluffy posted:FFMQ was the height of The White Dragon posted:Kenji Ito would like to have a word with you I don't think you understood what he meant. Secret of Mana isn't  . This is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZOQ8sLO-vUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUGDp39srk0 Dross fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Feb 12, 2013 |
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Feb 12, 2013 18:11
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I always liked the music from the Lich fight in Secret of Mana. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHqy0n_VQJc
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Feb 12, 2013 19:23
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Ross posted:I always liked the music from the Lich fight in Secret of Mana. It's inspired by Balinese Kecak chants. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX1rghsOqu0
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Feb 12, 2013 19:38
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Dross posted:I don't think you understood what he meant. Secret of Mana isn't ... Man, you look up these guys on search engines and you get the faces of a bunch of fat, middle-aged dudes with hair like they're trying to be bishounen rockstars, except it's wiry and ratty from being dyed so much. I love it. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Feb 12, 2013 |
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Feb 12, 2013 20:16
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The White Dragon posted:Kenji Ito didn't do Secret of Mana, that's Hiroki Kikuta. Ryuji Sasai is Mystic Quest and Rudra's Secret Treasure, and Kenji Ito is the SNES SaGa titles, but yeah his stuff was a bit tamer until the third entry in the series. Huh, I was just going by Ito's Wikipedia entry; he apparently at least contributed/was credited in SoM. It's even crazier to think that those dudes were in their early to mid 20s when they were writing this stuff. What have I been doing with MY life?
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Feb 12, 2013 20:21
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Man I miss Secret of Mana, I gotta get my brother to play that with me when he gets back in town, just like the good ol' days. He gets the midget! Did Square ever do anything more with the series? I remember Seiken Densetsu 3 was pretty bad rear end but stopped keeping up after that.
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Feb 12, 2013 20:24
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The Gunslinger posted:Man I miss Secret of Mana, I gotta get my brother to play that with me when he gets back in town, just like the good ol' days. He gets the midget! IIRC it's advantageous to have the Sprite be the AI-controlled character, simply because you have more dead frames between spell casts (where you can't open the menu and start another cast) when he's under player control.
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Feb 12, 2013 20:25
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Dross posted:IIRC it's advantageous to have the Sprite be the AI-controlled character, simply because you have more dead frames between spell casts (where you can't open the menu and start another cast) when he's under player control. I am not going to min max Secret of Mana co-op, haha jesus.
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Feb 12, 2013 20:34
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The Gunslinger posted:I am not going to min max Secret of Mana co-op, haha jesus. But you can stun lock enemies and bosses for BIG numbers!
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Feb 12, 2013 20:41
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The girl is the best character because she has a bunch of weird spells like fire bouquet nobody ever uses and her canonical weapons or w/e (gloves, whip) are the coolest weapons. Also those Hammer pants.
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Feb 12, 2013 20:43
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ImpAtom posted:This gets particularly schizophrenic when they try to appeal to Japanese and Western tastes at the same time despite the two asking for different things. My favorite part of the XIII backlash was Square saying it was more like an FPS than a WRPG.
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Feb 12, 2013 21:00
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Answering my own question from earlier, it seems like after Seiken Densetsu 3, Square released a bunch of mediocre Mana games for various platforms and dead ended the series back in 2007 when the original creator left.
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Feb 12, 2013 21:03
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Dross posted:That makes you forfeit a Hero Ring later though Wait, how?
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Feb 12, 2013 21:15
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There's like two or three dungeons in the game that you revisit later, and if you don't take any of the treasure the first time, the items "upgrade" to better ones when you come back.
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Feb 12, 2013 21:17
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The Gunslinger posted:Answering my own question from earlier, it seems like after Seiken Densetsu 3, Square released a bunch of mediocre Mana games for various platforms and dead ended the series back in 2007 when the original creator left. Yes the Mana series in America pretty much has one good game (two I guess if you count FF Adventure).
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Feb 12, 2013 21:25
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The Gunslinger posted:Answering my own question from earlier, it seems like after Seiken Densetsu 3, Square released a bunch of mediocre Mana games for various platforms and dead ended the series back in 2007 when the original creator left. "Mediocre Mana game" is redundant.
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Feb 12, 2013 21:26
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Blackbelt Bobman posted:Wait, how? Some treasure chests, if left unopened in the World of Balance, hold better items in the World of Ruin. The one with the Thunder Rod is one of them.
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Feb 12, 2013 21:29
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Dross posted:Some treasure chests, if left unopened in the World of Balance, hold better items in the World of Ruin. The one with the Thunder Rod is one of them. Sheesh, that chest already upgraded from the first time through. I didn't realize it upgrades again
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Feb 12, 2013 21:32
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The Gunslinger posted:Answering my own question from earlier, it seems like after Seiken Densetsu 3, Square released a bunch of mediocre Mana games for various platforms and dead ended the series back in 2007 when the original creator left. I'd definitely argue Legend of Mana is far from mediocre, though it's so wildly different that it's definitely not for everyone. It's certainly a departure from SoM/SD3, though (and in fact was/is considered a side story rather than SD4, which ended up being Dawn of Mana). Still, it's between Legend and SMB3 for my all-time favorite game, and I can rant all day about how much I love that game. At any rate, after Legend they did Sword of Mana, a remake of FFAdventure that ramps the melodrama of the plot to 11 while trying to appear whimsical by mimicking Legend's style, plus some rather ridiculous design choices (Link with 100 different versions of the game to unlock something?) And then the other games apparently weren't much better, though the only one I played of those was Children, which was alright as a dungeon crawler but didn't seem to have as much depth to combat and essentially no story to speak of, which was always a strength of the series. I've heard a lot of bad things about Dawn, and Heroes is a RTS for some reason. After that, the series just died completely, which is kind of a shame but also kind of a relief.
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Feb 12, 2013 21:34
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TurnipFritter posted:"Mediocre Mana game" is redundant. Do you wanna frickin' fight?!
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