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Assuming that's true, I never expected Russ to be on that place in the list, but it makes sense.
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Feb 14, 2013 22:34
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Nephilm posted:Assuming that's true, I never expected Russ to be on that place in the list, but it makes sense. In the thread at Warseer, someone made an observation that it would tie in really well with the theory that the Wolves eliminated at least one of the missing legions.
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Feb 14, 2013 23:17
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Huh. I always assumed it went in legion number order for some reason.
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Feb 14, 2013 23:30
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Arquinsiel posted:Huh. I always assumed it went in legion number order for some reason. It's kind of odd that it didn't. Why were they numbered that way then; just old lore or is there an actual reason?
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Feb 14, 2013 23:33
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Infected Mushroom posted:It's kind of odd that it didn't. Why were they numbered that way then; just old lore or is there an actual reason? I would assume that the legions had numbers before the Primarchs were found. I'm surprised at how quickly Ferrus was found. I hope that that somehow means that he'll be important in an upcoming book.
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Feb 14, 2013 23:43
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Remember that the legions predate primarchs being found; it's not at all strange for the First Legion (Dark Angels) to be based upon the genetic material of Gestation Pod I, Legion III (Emperor's Children) for Pod III and so on and so forth. It'd actually be weirder if they had found the primarchs in the same order as they had been earmarked while fetuses.
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Feb 14, 2013 23:45
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Nephilm posted:Remember that the legions predate primarchs being found; it's not at all strange for the First Legion to be based upon the genetic material of Gestation Pod I, Legion III for Pod III and so on and so forth. It'd actually be weirder if they had found the primarchs in the same order as they had been earmarked while fetuses. Yeah I guess, I just assumed that since they renamed and reorganized them they would have renumbered them too.
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Feb 14, 2013 23:47
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TBH I think nobody ever bothered to think that hard about it before, but it was strongly implied that only the Dark Angels had any members prior to finding the Primarchs in the 2nd ed books.
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Feb 14, 2013 23:56
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Improbable Lobster posted:I would assume that the legions had numbers before the Primarchs were found. It's been indirectly referenced. Fulgrim was known to have been found early (from spending time with Horus on the early days of the crusade) and Ferrus had been found both before Fulgrim and roughly at the same time (they coincided at Terra before leaving on their crusades). As for doing anything important, I doubt so since the "story" has already moved several books past his death at Istvaan.
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Feb 15, 2013 00:04
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The list makes a lot of sense to me. Ferrus's early founding makes sense given his dissatisfaction in his status by the Great Crusade. He felt eclipsed by a lot of his brothers. In the same vein, the list explains why Russ embraces his role in the greater scheme of things. Unlike most of the other Primarchs, he was not envious of Horus at the very least. I find it odd that the Lion was found later on, given his pride at being the First Legion. The latter half is all but comprised of the more unpredictable/aloof Primarchs. In contrast to the empire-builders (Guilliman and Dorn) being found earlier.
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Feb 15, 2013 00:28
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Nephilm posted:It's been indirectly referenced. Fulgrim was known to have been found early (from spending time with Horus on the early days of the crusade) and Ferrus had been found both before Fulgrim and roughly at the same time (they coincided at Terra before leaving on their crusades). Fulgrims legion was tiny as well, there was some problems with the gene seed or possibly a large engagement (I don't recall exactly). And Fulgrim's Legion was grouped directly under the Lunar Wolves and only became a proper legion decades after Fulgrim was found and a new source of geneseed was created. I like that a lot of the Primarchs have interesting inter-personal relationships and rivalries. I still think that Angron is one of the more tragic downfalls along with Fulgrim. Bad luck created Angron's madness and ignorance put down Fulgrim  Arquinsiel posted:My girlfriend read it before me having picked it up at Gamesday, and not knowing 40k outside of the Ghosts books she didn't get why I was all :aaaaaa: when I realised who the "special" dudes making the Lord General stand outside were. Sometimes you really need the grounding in tabletop to appreciate just how batshit things have gotten in that series. Abnett is my favorite guy when it comes to portraying space marines. Especially from the vantage points outside the legions themselves. When the White Scar engages with and helps one of the guardsmen that was a really human moment while still being frightening.
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Feb 15, 2013 01:26
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Demiurge4 posted:Abnett is my favorite guy when it comes to portraying space marines. Especially from the vantage points outside the legions themselves. When the White Scar engages with and helps one of the guardsmen that was a really human moment while still being frightening.
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Feb 15, 2013 01:55
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Demiurge4 posted:Fulgrims legion was tiny as well, there was some problems with the gene seed or possibly a large engagement (I don't recall exactly). And Fulgrim's Legion was grouped directly under the Lunar Wolves and only became a proper legion decades after Fulgrim was found and a new source of geneseed was created. quote:I like that a lot of the Primarchs have interesting inter-personal relationships and rivalries. I still think that Angron is one of the more tragic downfalls along with Fulgrim. Bad luck created Angron's madness and ignorance put down Fulgrim Angron is just tragic. And Lorgar is an utter loving bastard If it weren't for the nails he would have been one of the best. When he is clear minded he is the most compassionate of the primarchs we have seen, and treats everyone equally with dignity and a focus on freedom. We get a few glimpses, that he would have been the most noble, the one who articulated the best of the human spirit. And instead he was enslaved and had a rage machine hammered into his skull, turning him from a demigod to an unconscious meat puppet driven by its limbic system, made to dance and kill for the amusement of the rich. He had less resources and a massive handicap so it took longer, but he was still on the cusp of triumph anyways when the Emperor showed up. Except the Big E didn't like that he was broken and consorting with slaves so he treated Angron like regular gristle for the war machine that was the Great Crusade. Horus rebels and Angron sides with him because while Horus may end up being not much better, he alone realizes how utterly horrific the Emperor is. Lorgar the coward realizes he will need protection from Sanguinus' eventual revenge and that Angron will likely eventually turn on them for being horrible as well. So two birds with one stone - he lies to Angron, manipulates him, and strings him along, until he is ready. Then Lorgar basically murders his brother by shoving a demon prince into his body and destroying the mind/identity that was Angron. Now instead of a potential revolutionary, Lorgar has a bodyguard to protect him from the brothers he hasn't killed yet. And the being who could have been one of the most noble leaders in the galaxy is suffering for eternity.
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Feb 15, 2013 03:43
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Minor correction, Angron was about to die. Also, Lorgar genuinely believed he was doing him a favor. ED: I meant he was about to die before being spirited away by the Emperor, but yeah, the Nails were killing him too.
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Feb 15, 2013 03:56
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I finished "Only in Death" earlier, because I have a problem and cannot stop reading this damned series. Spoilers for the series so far, I guess. [spoilers] Even though I knew Gaunt didn't really die, he sure was roughed up by the end. And I love how Hark was harping on Ludd the entire time to be a bastard, yet when he finds poor Soric, he is anything but a bastard, and shows actual regret. I think that's why I like Hark so much, because what he puts on in front of the men, versus what we, the reader, actually know about him, is really good. I just loved the parts where he was too tired to go on and sat down, and just pretended he was cleaning his gun whenever someone rolled along. [/spoiler] Does Rawne get enough love from people? Because he certainly deserves it. All in all, I adored the haunted house theme this book had, and I am now sad that I only have two more books to go. After Gaunt's ghosts, I either have the Soul Drinkers series, or the Grey Knights series. I hear that the Grey Knights series pales in comparison to ADB's one, but is it weak, or is it over the top? I hope it is the latter, because I get a kick out of the 40K books that try to be really grim dark. Maybe I'm a sucker for pulp, but I love it.
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Feb 15, 2013 04:11
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Nephilm posted:Minor correction, Angron was about to die. Also, Lorgar genuinely believed he was doing him a favor. The Emperor could have intervened and helped Angron win. Or they might have won on their own. Angron expected to die, but he also says he expected to fall in every battle. It was only after that battle that he went from "expecting to die" to "wanting to die", part out of shame, and part out of essentially being a pawn for a new "high rider". And while Lorgar kept telling everyone it was to save Angron, no one believed him. Then his method of "saving" was to essentially kill him, which means the others were probably right about Lorgar after all. Plus the moves of Erebus/Argal Tal and Lorgar/Angron mirror each other, and I have to think ADB did that on purpose. In both cases, the priest is sick of the status quo and thinks they can do better (Erebus and his cohort replacing the primarchs like he says, Lorgar, Horus, etc replacing the Emperor), both are dealing with a powerful warrior with a self destructive streak motivated by shame (Argal Tal over losing Cyrene, Angron over losing his warband), and both lie, manipulate, betray and destroy the warrior to see their long run plans come to fruition. And the end is that by destroying the warrior, the priests end up with a much more powerful warrior to kill for them (Erebus sets Kharn down his path, Lorgar gets a pet demon prince). The contrast is the ego and failure to see things through that Erebus gets called on by Lorgar earlier (thanks freddy foreshadowing!). Lorgar points out that their failure to understand the primarchs means that when Erebus and Kor Phanon plot to turn Sanguinus and Guiliman (respectively) they fail and simply energize the enemy against them. This is what happens yet again, where Kharn, rather than then doing as Erebus wants, goes to kill Erebus instead basically, ADB got some literature mixed in with my pulppy scifi bolter porn Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Feb 15, 2013 |
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Feb 15, 2013 04:39
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May want to check that spoiler tag, buddy.
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Feb 15, 2013 04:44
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There's a practical aspect to it, but I think Lorgar genuinely believed he was doing him good. In any case, everything that happened was worthwhile so we could get Hyperion Swordbreaker  .
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Feb 15, 2013 04:49
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Nephilm posted:There's a practical aspect to it, but I think Lorgar genuinely believed he was doing him good. I don't know if he got signed for both books at the same time and did it intentionally, or wrote it that way after he was lucky enough to get to write a follow up afterwards, but I love the contrast of a character whose flaw is a failure to internalize brotherhood combating a character who became corrupted because of how deeply he is committed to brotherhood. ADB write gud. Buy he books, get him fame and moneys
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Feb 15, 2013 05:05
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Angel Exterminatus was pretty good. Poor Peturabo and his Iron Warriors got shafted pretty hard.
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Feb 15, 2013 09:27
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Can't help the Lion is out of place there. The HH books made it seem like he was found last. Or maybe just bad writing made the timeline in those books bad.
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Feb 15, 2013 10:19
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Edit: claimed Shroud fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Feb 16, 2013 |
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Feb 16, 2013 02:13
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I'll take them. Email is joneswt@live.com
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Feb 16, 2013 02:14
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I finished the Gaunt's Ghosts series. Well, I still have the Sabbat anthology, and the first two books, but I am caught up in regards to the story line. I loved almost everything about the series. I really liked, in an ironic way, when one of the main characters died. Yeah, it sucked if it was one of your favorites, but drat if it did not keep you on your toes while reading the series. I was always up in the air over who was my favorite author, the tie being between ADB and Abnett, but I am certainly leaning towards Abnett now. Also, I believe the next Horus Heresy book is written by him, so good news there. I started the first Grey Knights book. Half way done. It's alright, but a different gear entirely after having read Gaunt. There is a lack of characterization, which I find disconcerting because, one, I just read a series all about characters, and two, I read a short story from some anthology by Counter that had the Grey Knights, and it was more entertaining that this. But, like I said, I'm only half way done, so maybe it'll get better.
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Feb 19, 2013 23:02
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Impaired Casing posted:I finished the Gaunt's Ghosts series. Well, I still have the Sabbat anthology, and the first two books, but I am caught up in regards to the story line. I loved almost everything about the series. I really liked, in an ironic way, when one of the main characters died. Yeah, it sucked if it was one of your favorites, but drat if it did not keep you on your toes while reading the series. I was always up in the air over who was my favorite author, the tie being between ADB and Abnett, but I am certainly leaning towards Abnett now. Also, I believe the next Horus Heresy book is written by him, so good news there. Don't bother with the Counter books, just read The Emperor's Gift by ADB. It's really good.
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Feb 20, 2013 04:55
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Safety Factor posted:Don't bother with the Counter books, just read The Emperor's Gift by ADB. It's really good. I did read it. You see, I've always hated the Grey Knights since I've heard of them. They seemed to be so try hard at grim dark, with the blood of innocents on their bolters and sacrificed psykers for their armor. It's just silly. I always felt it was like a 13 year old came up with them, because it's just so... Over the top. But then I read ADB's book, and thought "Hey, maybe I should see what else there is." And then I read Counter's short story, which was, despite the GRIM DARK of it all, was still enjoyable. So I thought to give it a shot. If this book doesn't get better by the time I'm done, I might just skip the rest, though. Impaired Casing fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 06:24
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Bought Battle of the Fang last Saturday and I'm 4/5ths in. It's solid and good and I love my cranky Dreadnoughts. Did the Space Wolves reorganize themselves after the Heresy? Prospero Burns didn't really categorize characters into Blood Claws or Grey Hunters or Long Fangs, giving them a more natural organization that was more Viking than wolf.
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Feb 20, 2013 14:14
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Eisenhorn arrived yesterday. I'm seriously considering abandoning Word Bearers since it seems to be going nowhere. I gave Reynolds about 100 pages to deliver an interesting plot idea or characters with agency. All I'm getting is a little bolter porn and what feels like a lot of filler. There could be an interesting power struggle in here somewhere but it's taking a while to actually get going. I have other novels to read, but I wanted to know if my gauge of this shamefully dull depiction of my favorite Chaos Legion is accurate.
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Feb 20, 2013 14:21
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Impaired Casing posted:I did read it. You see, I've always hated the Grey Knights since I've heard of them. They seemed to be so try hard at grim dark, with the blood of innocents on their bolters and sacrificed psykers for their armor. It's just silly. I always felt it was like a 13 year old came up with them, because it's just so... Over the top. But then I read ADB's book, and thought "Hey, maybe I should see what else there is." And then I read Counter's short story, which was, despite the GRIM DARK of it all, was still enjoyable. So I thought to give it a shot. If this book doesn't get better by the time I'm done, I might just skip the rest, though. ADB is a great writer and I think his career would sky rocket if he was able to break away from writing what is essentially 40k fan fiction. His take on the Grey Knights was really good although you could see there were bits that felt shoved in to stay 'in line' with the codex that Mat Ward was writing. He has this really great way of humanising demi gods or other unfathomable characters. Nephilm posted:There's a practical aspect to it, but I think Lorgar genuinely believed he was doing him good. Lorgar says that he is doing it to save his brother but Lorgar, like most of the characters in ADB's books, is either lying or lying to himself. He is more than willing to sacrifice a brother to save his own life. If the HH ever comes to a close, I'd love for them to conclude with Erebus' plan to replace the Primarchs coming into fruition which can fit in nicely with the current 40k fluff. All the primarchs are either forced or tricked into ascending leaving the actual running of the legions and the power struggles to the Space Marines themselves.
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Feb 20, 2013 14:32
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BlueInkAlchemist posted:Eisenhorn arrived yesterday. I'm seriously considering abandoning Word Bearers since it seems to be going nowhere. I gave Reynolds about 100 pages to deliver an interesting plot idea or characters with agency. All I'm getting is a little bolter porn and what feels like a lot of filler. There could be an interesting power struggle in here somewhere but it's taking a while to actually get going. If they're your favorite legion, look into The First Heretic, Know No Fear, and Betrayer. Reynolds' trilogy is pretty dull all throughout.
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Feb 20, 2013 17:53
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Just read Legion, it was good. Really among the better WH40k books i've read. I really hate someone seeing the future with absolute clarity though, it's bollocks and always has been. The future changed the second someone saw it and giving Alpharius and Omegon two paths only to destruction is lame.
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Feb 20, 2013 21:21
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Kegslayer posted:
While Lorgar has been acquiring more shades of Magnificent Bastard (if we're going all TV tropes here), I don't quite see it in the latest books. Especially in Betrayer, he goes to rather extreme risks to help out Angron, when Magnus and even Horus are pretty much coughing into their hands and saying it's not worth the effort. Teleporting into cursed earth, taking two plasma blastguns to the face like he's Sasha Grey (and a vulcan megabolter to the chest, but who's counting), wandering about Ultramar with a minimum fleet while the Ultramarines are roaring for his blood, and leaving himself vulnerable in the middle of a pitched battle to ensure Angron's ascension are not really the deeds of someone out to ditch his kin to get ahead. Though you -could- argue that we was doing it to test if it was even possible for a mortal to ascend into Daemon Princedom.
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Feb 20, 2013 23:07
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I like to believe it's a bit of both opinions. On one hand, he believes he's truly saving his brother by ascending him to a sort of godhood as he sees Chaos as the new ideal to worship and Daemonhood something to strive towards. Perhaps he did as Angron was degenerating fast at that point. To non-chaos worshippers he arguably murdered his brother for a mad ideal, created a Daemon Prince in his image that's even more Angry(tm) that owes Lorgar for it's existence. This highlights the almost tragic nature of Chaos' corruption and fits the dual Betrayer vibe some people got from the book. It could also be partly a test as Sephyr says to see if a mortal could ascend. All in all I think I'm reading too much into space pulp these days  I seem to remember ADB mentioning on his blog a while ago that he loved the ambiguity of the 40k universe and the multiple images and conclusions people would take from the the same subjects. He might just be injecting that into his writing which is cool bananas to me. E: attempted to fix horrible sentence structure. Frankly fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Feb 20, 2013 |
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Feb 20, 2013 23:40
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My take was that Lorgar genuinely thought it would be best for Angron, but that he knew Angron would have rejected it if he knew what it was.
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Feb 21, 2013 06:27
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Just finished The Emperor's Gift. Wow, that was a good book. I mean, seriously good stuff. So much tragic grimdark, and a ton of interesting information about the Grey Knights and how they work within the Imperium and Inquisition. I didn't really like the portrayal of the Wolves though. I think after reading how Abnett portrayed them, every other book will pale. ADB did a fantastic job of maintaining "Space Marines are Transhuman To The Point of Being Alien" while still focusing the story on a Space Marine though.
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Feb 21, 2013 16:39
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I just recently finished Angel Exterminatus, and I have to say that I really liked Perturabo's characterization. I also thought Fulgrim's evolution was also interesting, and enjoyed the contrasts drawn between the Iron Warriors and the Emperor's Children. It's going to be interesting to see how Perturabo actually progresses along the path towards becoming a Daemon prince. I also liked the little shout-out to McNeil's other works in the last chapter, it came out of nowhere but I thought it was clever.
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Feb 24, 2013 01:16
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Did anyone read the short story prequel to Pariah called Perihelion? I'm wary of a $3 ebook from BL. I feel like it would probably be like 6 pages or something.
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Feb 24, 2013 04:54
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Olanphonia posted:Did anyone read the short story prequel to Pariah called Perihelion? I'm wary of a $3 ebook from BL. I feel like it would probably be like 6 pages or something. Its like 6 pages
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Feb 24, 2013 08:36
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I miss Hammer and Bolter  The new short story a la carte thing is so horrible.
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Feb 24, 2013 10:12
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orphean posted:I miss Hammer and Bolter But now you can pay $4 each for each of those six stories you used to pay $4 total for!
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Feb 24, 2013 16:49
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