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I think a Three Job Fiesta could be fun for IZJS. Assuming it just included the main story content it would be very feasible with any combo of jobs. e: Maybe even a Two Job variant for added challenge. MMF Freeway fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Feb 16, 2013 |
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Feb 15, 2013 23:58
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Vil posted:Yeah, I think FF5 gets crapped on the least by a wide margin. Sure, it has its flaws, but those are generally reacted to in a "sure, it has its flaws, but" way rather than a "goddammit this ruins everything" way. FF5 probably has the worst writing in the entire series, prior to 13-2 or whatever and I think even that's arguable. The cliches like Butz's entire identity and personality clash badly with the weird Japanese/FF elements like meteor travelers and the plot being about dimensions merging and holes opening up into the void negaverse and poo poo. A lot of the other games mix various fantasy RPG cliches with the anime/sci-fi/whatever stuff in that way and still manage to maintain a thematic coherency that I think FF5 lacks. The gameplay's boss, though. It's such a nice middle ground between FF3's excessive simplicity and FFT's complexity and methodical pacing. It's like it exists at a perfect sweet spot for replayability, where FF3 lacks the depth to offer new experiences on replay and FFT is too big and slow and cumbersome to undertake once a year or more. And don't get me wrong, I love FFT.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:12
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I think, also, FFV doesn't have the rabid (western) fanbase that IV and VI have, so people are just less sick of hearing about it. No one ever claims FFV's story is high art, and no one plays FFV expecting that. So there's less backlash.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:15
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Had FF5 actually been released in the US when it was new, I suspect it would be held in the same high regard here as 4 and 6.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:17
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Krad posted:Here is a list of universally applauded games (extending beyond Final Fantasy for the sake of argument): Ocarina of Time is the Star Wars to Majora's Mask's Empire Strikes Back. They're both my favourite, for slightly different reasons. The CDi games are the prequel trilogy, although that's about as far as I can stretch this analogy.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:18
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Mega64 posted:I wish there was a way to spread the FJF concept of "Everybody does a certain challenge with random criteria" to other FF games. The same thing doesn't work for FF3 for a variety of reasons, and there's only so much variety you can have with six random jobs in FF1's case. Really, there's only 12 IZJS and Tactics that could do something like that, and the former's too small to really do anything with, while the other might be a bit too complex to get a good working system for. Everything else is either set (FF4/9) or has systems where the character development itself is completely interchangable. Even Dimensions wouldn't really work since it dumps half its jobs early on and then slowly gives out the rest as the game progresses. I once tried to figure out how to make a random character/magicite distribution challenge for FF6. It was too much of a pain
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Feb 16, 2013 00:19
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I came here to say Final Fantasy 5 was the best one and it looks like everyone agrees with me.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:19
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Dr Pepper posted:I once tried to figure out how to make a random character/magicite distribution challenge for FF6. I don't think this would've worked out great anyway, because the thing that makes the FJF great is that it requires you to approach boss fights and areas from a new perspective, use skills you might not've used before, or discover new synergies between jobs you've never used together. FF6 is easy enough that a no-esper challenge actually isn't that much of a challenge even, because the most broken things are intrinsic commands like Tools/Rage and relics that anyone can equip like the Offering. I still don't see the problem with doing an FFT 5 Job Fiesta other than the fact that you wouldn't "start" the Fiesta until Chapter 2 when you can actually get weapons and poo poo for most classes and have had the time to unlock them organically rather than grinding for hours to do so. I think the game itself is slower and more cumbersome in such a way that it'd be less fun than the FJF anyway, but would approach the spirit of it more than any other game's challenges, because FFT is surprisingly difficult even when you have access to everything if you don't know how to break it and has a lot of underrated skills casual players seldom explore because they end up leaning on Agrias/Mustadio/Orlandu.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:25
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FF6 is a pretty easy game even as far as FFs go. If you did four random characters and no Espers it could get pretty hard depending on which four you got. I think you would need a restriction that every party included one of Terra or Celes then three randoms after that. I'm not sure if the last dungeon would be beatable with just four characters but I haven't played it in years and don't remember that much about it.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:28
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Zombies' Downfall posted:I don't think this would've worked out great anyway, because the thing that makes the FJF great is that it requires you to approach boss fights and areas from a new perspective, use skills you might not've used before, or discover new synergies between jobs you've never used together. FF6 is easy enough that a no-esper challenge actually isn't that much of a challenge even, because the most broken things are intrinsic commands like Tools/Rage and relics that anyone can equip like the Offering. Yeah that's why it was too much of a pain. And of course each character's ability varies wildly in usefulness. On one hand you have Cyan, and then there's Gau.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:31
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Relm, Strago, Cyan, and Locke, no espers
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Feb 16, 2013 00:33
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Ho Chi Minh Holiday Inn posted:Relm, Strago, Cyan, and Locke, no espers That party still owns because Locke will 1 shot anything with Valiant Knife and Ultima Weapon, Strago's lores are decent
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Feb 16, 2013 00:35
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Dubious posted:That party still owns because Locke will 1 shot anything with Valiant Knife and Ultima Weapon, Strago's lores are decent Okay, swap Locke with Umaro.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:42
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Relm still has access to some good poo poo, Strago has great Lores and Umaro can at least deal out respectable damage with the right setup.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:45
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Will Locke or anyone still one-shot stuff with no Espers to boost their Vigor and Magic stats to 9999 damage-inducing levels?
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Feb 16, 2013 00:45
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Ross posted:FF6 is a pretty easy game even as far as FFs go. If you did four random characters and no Espers it could get pretty hard depending on which four you got. I think you would need a restriction that every party included one of Terra or Celes then three randoms after that. Sabin and Cyan can total most things just based off their innate abilities. Anybody with genji glove + offering and atma weapon + illumina is a monster. Shadow can be kitted out to where he will simply dodge/block just about everything and the drat dog will run out and bite them for 9999. Outside of the relic that lets you can spells twice for dual ultima, many other characters do vastly more raw damage without any magic at all. The only spell you actually want is quick so you can take two turns in a row. Because a single cast of quick and + atama/ulumina genji/offering means one character hits 16 times for straight 9999 and kills anything instantly including the final boss. And when properly done, you can walk away from shadow and the enemy will eventually die from a dog mauling while being unable to hit him and flailing like a fool.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:46
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All this talk of job challenges has me kind of wanting to see how far I can get in a no crystarium run of 13. I'm sure it's been done before and there's a pretty hard limit, but I don't know what that limit is. On the plus side, once you do hit that limit, holding down the crystarium button and just watching it go would feel so good.
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Feb 16, 2013 00:51
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I've always liked the concept of doing a Celes / Edgar / Setzer run of FF6, but the execution must be dreadful. Hope you like killing dinosaurs to level 99 with hyper-specific esper equips!
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Feb 16, 2013 00:54
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Mega64 posted:I wish there was a way to spread the FJF concept of "Everybody does a certain challenge with random criteria" to other FF games. FF8 with random junctions 
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Feb 16, 2013 00:58
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chumbler posted:All this talk of job challenges has me kind of wanting to see how far I can get in a no crystarium run of 13. I'm sure it's been done before and there's a pretty hard limit, but I don't know what that limit is. On the plus side, once you do hit that limit, holding down the crystarium button and just watching it go would feel so good. According to the No Crystarium Challenge guide on Gamefaqs, it's possible to beat the entire game without touching the thing. The real king of stupid challenge runs has to be FFX, though. Have fun trying a No Sphere Grid No Summon No Customize No Overdrive No Escape No No Encounters No Blitzball run!
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Feb 16, 2013 01:04
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Dr Pepper posted:Yeah that's why it was too much of a pain. I'd say you have to use Gau with only his default Rages but that's still pretty powerful. Ho Chi Minh Holiday Inn posted:Relm, Strago, Cyan, and Locke, no espers Relm with control and confuse literally breaks the game in ways varying from corrupting the game's data to deleting characters and replacing them with other characters entirely or swapping their color palettes.
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Feb 16, 2013 01:07
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ProfessorProf posted:According to the No Crystarium Challenge guide on Gamefaqs, it's possible to beat the entire game without touching the thing. How. I do not get how this is even possible. FFXIII doesn't have a lot of the weird crazy stuff that makes low level games in past Final Fantasy games possible.
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Feb 16, 2013 01:08
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Dr Pepper posted:How. Weapon and accessory stats can get pretty ridiculous, so I guess there's that. Other than that maybe you just have to have quick reactions on getting into a paradigm with sentinel/medic? Thinking about it, you can probably avoid a lot of fights, and I don't recall bosses overwhelming you with damage too often, and the ones who did would kill the character normally anyway. I still don't see how you can get past the mandatory turtle and behemoth fights, though.
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Feb 16, 2013 01:13
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Dr Pepper posted:How. Slowly Seems like more trouble than it's worth and I loved FF13.
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Feb 16, 2013 01:13
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Dr Pepper posted:How. Weapon and item crafting counts for a lot, as does proper switching.
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Feb 16, 2013 01:19
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Evil Fluffy posted:I'd say you have to use Gau with only his default Rages but that's still pretty powerful. I want there to be an FAQ for this challenge that reads: "Sketch an Intangir until game corrupts and starts the credits." In reality, without magic, Relm is still pretty deadly just on the basis of 'buy piles of rods' 'use bizarrely high magic power to break them for 9999', or 'bean people with heal rod'. Even Cyan is pretty usable. Dispatch wipes up early game, Dual Tempests can gently caress up random encounters pretty fast, and you can get decent damage out of him just by pressing 'fight' if you don't want to charge during after everyone else has taken their turn. You pretty much need an absurd difficulty hack to make it hard or go for the single character challenges, which are still mostly doable. The beauty of the FJF is that even at it's most bullshit points, it's still pretty accessible. (You got 4 White Mages? At least you'll never die.) and doesn't need any crazy rules explaining the restrictions.
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Feb 16, 2013 01:23
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Evil Fluffy posted:Relm with control and confuse literally breaks the game in ways varying from corrupting the game's data to deleting characters and replacing them with other characters entirely or swapping their color palettes. I was acting under the assumption you wouldn't use that cheat because she sucks pretty hard when you're not exploiting that.
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Feb 16, 2013 01:29
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Of course "sucks pretty hard" in FF6 doesn't really mean much.
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Feb 16, 2013 01:30
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SilentD posted:Sabin and Cyan can total most things just based off their innate abilities. Anybody with genji glove + offering and atma weapon + illumina is a monster. Shadow can be kitted out to where he will simply dodge/block just about everything and the drat dog will run out and bite them for 9999. I asked this earlier and nobody responded, but is this true even if you are not using Espers and thus not boosting their Vigor stat? Offering was supposed to lower your damage per hit compared to normal but I think that might have been bugged, not sure if they fixed it in the GBA version or if I'm thinking of another game or relic. quote:Outside of the relic that lets you can spells twice for dual ultima, many other characters do vastly more raw damage without any magic at all. The only spell you actually want is quick so you can take two turns in a row. Because a single cast of quick and + atama/ulumina genji/offering means one character hits 16 times for straight 9999 and kills anything instantly including the final boss. And when properly done, you can walk away from shadow and the enemy will eventually die from a dog mauling while being unable to hit him and flailing like a fool. Right but the constraints here are no Espers / natural magic, so nobody is getting Ultima except Terra at L99. I can't remember if either of them learns Quick eventually. I feel like Cyan gets poo poo on unfairly a lot in this game. He's not as good as Edgar or Cat Scratch etc. but he's not all that bad. Pretty high baseline strength, Dispatch is great damage from the back row, equips all the good armor. Ross fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Feb 16, 2013 |
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Feb 16, 2013 01:43
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Cyan is probably the worst character next to Umaro because he offers literally nothing that Edgar, Setzer or Mog don't already offer. Higher level Bushido is worthless because of the time required, and Fang/Dispatch don't hold a candle to even Drill. Cyan is also horribly slow, which is another point against him, and his rock-bottom Magic doesn't help him either. The main reason one'd use him is if they like his character. Even if he wasn't bad, when you stack him against the rest of the cast, just by basis of comparison he's one of the worst.
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Feb 16, 2013 02:11
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Krad posted:I said it at some point before, the thread title should be "Final Fantasy Megathread: Every game is the worst game in the series (except FFV)" I don't think FFV is that good- it's about average for me. Yeah, the class customization is kind of fun but it doesn't matter since most battles are very easy. In fact, you could probably play the game using a FF1 setup of Knight, Monk, Black Mage, White Mage and have no significant problems. The plot's stupid too. Some people say it's light-hearted but it has moments that are laughably melodramatic (a big problem with a lot of Final Fantasy stories), like early in the game where Lenna walks over poison flowers to get an herb for the sick Wind Dragon and falls ill herself only to be healed a second later by the same Wind Dragon for a very unexplained reason. I don't think the villain's very interesting either. Maybe it's because he reminds me too much of Golbez but he comes off as a parody of a Final Fantasy villain except the story wants you to take him seriously. The plot's just not engaging.
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Feb 16, 2013 02:21
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Ross posted:I asked this earlier and nobody responded, but is this true even if you are not using Espers and thus not boosting their Vigor stat? Yeah I wouldn't doubt it-- I remember seeing the attack formulas for this game and on physicals, Vigor is weighted less than level and the weapon's battle power or whatever
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Feb 16, 2013 02:23
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ProfessorProf posted:No Blitzball run! Why would you ever want to play blitzball.
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Feb 16, 2013 02:25
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swamp waste posted:Yeah I wouldn't doubt it-- I remember seeing the attack formulas for this game and on physicals, Vigor is weighted less than level and the weapon's battle power or whatever Vigor only really shows up while doing calculation for physical attacks, after 128 Vigor is technically maxed (though the stat can go higher, calculations take only up to 128 into account). Enemies vigor is determined at the start of every battle randomly between 56 and 63. FFVI Algorithms FAQ posted:
Because I loving love me my Algorithm FAQs
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Feb 16, 2013 02:34
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Mega64 posted:I wish there was a way to spread the FJF concept of "Everybody does a certain challenge with random criteria" to other FF games. The same thing doesn't work for FF3 for a variety of reasons, and there's only so much variety you can have with six random jobs in FF1's case. Really, there's only 12 IZJS and Tactics that could do something like that, and the former's too small to really do anything with, while the other might be a bit too complex to get a good working system for. Everything else is either set (FF4/9) or has systems where the character development itself is completely interchangable. Even Dimensions wouldn't really work since it dumps half its jobs early on and then slowly gives out the rest as the game progresses. I think it's definitely doable for FFT and 12 IZJS, with maybe some minor variations; but they will never be as fun. Both 12 and FFT are much, much longer games, so you're very likely to have most people burn out before completing the challenge even once a year (as opposed to 5, which is so short a lot of people beat the game several times during one Fiesta). Also, I think FFT and 12 tend to be harder in general (at least if you include optional content for 12), which is also likely to have people quitting. And 5 gradually gives you jobs, so you have the anticipation of seeing what job you get several times; as you say, it'd be more complicated to parcel out jobs this way with FFT or 12. Also, nobody has 12 IZJS, so there's that.
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Feb 16, 2013 04:18
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I don't think 12's mainline story content is hard enough that the class restrictions would amount to much either - you're dealing with 3 permutations instead of 4, and the boards are flexible enough that you can compensate for whatever you're missing fairly easily. FFT job challenges do seem interesting to me  But the game is definitely slow.FF5 has the perfect mix of speed and accessibility. 12 or FFT are positively bloated by comparison. I know! We could do FFTA2 job challenges!  (oh wait, that game has no challenge  )
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Feb 16, 2013 06:00
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GreenBuckanneer posted:Why would you ever want to play blitzball. I really liked Blitzball. I realize this makes me some sort of bizarre mutant. I also think VI is okay but not great, and that Ocarina of Time is also okay but vastly inferior to Link to the Past. Schwartzcough posted:And 5 gradually gives you jobs, so you have the anticipation of seeing what job you get several times; as you say, it'd be more complicated to parcel out jobs this way with FFT or 12. Especially considering the only way to get most classes in Tactics is to level earlier ones, as opposed to V where they just flat out give you the jobs at certain points in the game. It wouldn't be the same since if you got say, Samurai, then that character would have to be a Squire, Knight, Monk, Archer, Thief, AND Lancer to unlock that job. Even with spillover JP, you'd still be using a lot of jobs just to get to the job you're aiming for, which kinda defeats the purpose of being limited to certain classes really. Unless you use a cheat device I guess.
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Feb 16, 2013 06:20
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Schwartzcough posted:And 5 gradually gives you jobs, so you have the anticipation of seeing what job you get several times; as you say, it'd be more complicated to parcel out jobs this way with FFT or 12. That last point is the stickler, but other than that there's no reason why you can't tweet for a new job when each character joins your party as opposed to all at once. Twelve by Pies posted:I really liked Blitzball. I agree with all of these statements. If you think X is better than XII we'll be unpopular opinion bros. Dross fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Feb 16, 2013 |
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Feb 16, 2013 15:43
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Is there a way to get rid of the black bar at the bottom of the screen in the pc VII re-release? I want to replay through VII, but without the load times present on the ps3. This is not an aspect thing (i doubt). The black bar is present in pretty much every screen execept battle. (And really only correct in the battle summary screen). I think this also may of been present in the original pc release. Any ideas?
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Feb 16, 2013 16:06
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Dross posted:I agree with all of these statements. If you think X is better than XII we'll be unpopular opinion bros. Oooo. Can I join the unpopular opinion club? I used to be all about VI, but having just played a large section of it again... I think it was mainly nostalgia talking. It disappointed me in a way that I didn't get when I replayed VII last year.
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Feb 16, 2013 16:06
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