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And then, as predicted, IRC suddenly just said "wait... this is poo poo!". Welp.
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Feb 19, 2013 02:13
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Oh no, I was just about to buy it.  What changed?
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Feb 19, 2013 02:24
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Gorgo Primus posted:And then, as predicted, IRC suddenly just said "wait... this is poo poo!". Welp. Yeah, how come? The only negative thing I have to add is that I just had some extremely stubborn and Paradoxian peace talks, where Austria would not budge at all even at 62% warscore and them at about 10 war exhaustion. Not even a white peace. Then I captured two more provinces, putting me at 66%, and all of a sudden I could get exactly 20% worth of poo poo from them. Though I did not know that apparently warscore contribution from battles caps out at 40%, so I spent a couple of months fighting huge pitched battles against them that did nothing but drive up both of our WEs. I should have assaulted some piddly 2% provinces earlier.
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Feb 19, 2013 02:28
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There isn't a consensus yet, but a number of people are saying that 90% of the world is level 0 forts and annexing half the map isn't too hard other than the odd fort that takes a while to sit on. It's only been out a few hours so I'd give room for people to flip flop about until they come to a strong consensus as to how the game is. Plus, I don't have the game myself so I can't really verify anything. I'm just keeping those of you not on IRC or Skype up to date with how that's progressing. Edit: And now its tipped back into "then again it seems alright... let's try again". Gorgo Primus fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 02:28
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BBJoey posted:Oh no, I was just about to buy it. Well, it seems pretty much like people expected. It's really polished and pretty, but it's pretty much just fighting. Fighting, fighting, fighting. Some of the extra chrome is confusing, like there seem to be a fair number of completely or nearly completely identical units that differ only in name/icon/flavor. I'm not clear on how the occupation thing works, either. Most provinces don't have forts and instantly go under your control. Sometimes they revert to enemy control when you leave... sometimes they don't. It seems to be related to if they border a province with a fort or the number of adjacent provinces you control. I can't seem to make heads or tails of it, and I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Sometimes provinces I think should revert to enemy control stay mine, sometimes provinces I think I should keep revert.  If you really like Paradox war you'll probably get a few campaigns of fun out of it. It seems way less complex then HoI. There's nothing going on except raising guys and throwing them into the meat grinder. There's a very  idea system, but... eh... I don't think I'm going to get a whole lot of play out of it, but I wouldn't say it's a bad game, just not my cup of tea.I'll mess with it again later, going back to Eador - Genesis for the evening. 
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Feb 19, 2013 02:36
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I guess what takes some getting used to is that a lot of the map doesn't need to be sieged at all. There are provinces with no cities or forts in them, which you automatically take control of when you pass through (potentially cutting of the enemy's supply lines) OR when you successfully siege the corresponding city/fort. Those provinces are mainly there to give you room to maneuver and for the supply stuff (if you don't siege the corresponding city, they revert back to the enemy's control when you leave them, so you either go from city to city or you need to guard your supply line). It takes some getting used to because the start of a war looks a lot different from other Paradox games with the possible exception of HoI. It looks a lot like painting the map very quickly, but those provinces don't enter into the warscore at all, as far as I know, and if you actually sit down to siege a fort it can take quite a bit of time. If that's not what they meant by level 0 forts, then I don't know either.
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Feb 19, 2013 02:42
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What exasperates me about the game, and Hearts of Iron is the same way, is the HUGE amount of chrome and how little most of it really matters. I started a game as Russia and I had like twenty different unit types I could build. All those units had a ton of stats and modeled fatigue and morale etc etc whatever. Then those units were arranged into armies with three flanks and reserves and separate leaders for each flank plus an overall leader and each of those leaders had their own separate stats etc etc. A lot of over the top grognard wargames like Grigsby's War in Russia are like this. The amount of detail spread over the vast number of units is greater then any actual human being can meaningfully attend to. I'm sure you can micro out making a really great death stack or whatever, but I can't shake the feeling that for 90% of the game and players it would play almost identically if you just had one unit type - 'DUDES', who had one stat each - 'alive' or 'dead'. And each stack of DUDES had a leader who was rated either 'good', 'okay', or 'lousy'. I mean, the chrome is cool, and I'm exaggerating a little, but not a huge amount. As Russia I threw together a largely random collection of men, horsies, and big guns, didn't bother assigning leaders or optimizing my stacks, declared war on the Ottomans, advanced carefully and still managed to (easily) kill a couple hundred thousand turks, take Constantinople and win a peace treaty. I'm sure I could have killed them better by spending half an hour lovingly customizing my order of battle, but it wasn't really necessary. I've always thought the real fun of Paradox games comes from the long term empire building, resource management, etc. War is just a means to an end, and the actual fighting is never all that fun in Paradox games in my book. Most of the time you're just watching the slightly larger stack eradicate and chase down the slightly smaller stack, or watching your stack sit on a fort and siege it down. Personally, I think it may be an actual crime to make a Grand Strategy game about the Napoleonic period and not include any politics, social model, or revolutionaries. Still, I knew pretty much what I was buying, and who knows, maybe I'll get some entertainment out of it yet. It's  in the Paradox tip jar, as far as I'm concerned. But if you feel the same way about their games I do and don't have twenty bucks to throw around as a 'tip', I'd give it a miss. 
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Feb 19, 2013 03:14
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Smirr posted:I guess what takes some getting used to is that a lot of the map doesn't need to be sieged at all. There are provinces with no cities or forts in them, which you automatically take control of when you pass through (potentially cutting of the enemy's supply lines) OR when you successfully siege the corresponding city/fort. Those provinces are mainly there to give you room to maneuver and for the supply stuff (if you don't siege the corresponding city, they revert back to the enemy's control when you leave them, so you either go from city to city or you need to guard your supply line). That seems like a pretty decent system for a Clausewitz engine wargame, honestly.
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Feb 19, 2013 03:47
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Despite a few flaws here and there, overall I think this is a solid title. I haven't noticed anything too broken and everything looks nice and is organized well. I love the hint system, but unfortunately I feel like the tutorial didn't explain that many concepts well such as supply lines, flanks, etc. Played my first game as Prussia, and despite not really knowing what to do, I annexed Brunswick and Hessen and got the land dominance target in Austria after what I would call a clusterfuck of a war. A few fixes, me understanding some concepts better, and me learning how to wage war properly and I might be visiting this game for a while. The flavor text during battles is amazing by the way. Really just get the game for that.
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Feb 19, 2013 04:11
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Useless Shotgun posted:The flavor text during battles is amazing by the way. Really just get the game for that.
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Feb 19, 2013 04:50
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Kersch posted:Could you give an example of what you're talking about here? 10 feb: hour 14- Future military thinkers will probably observe that no plan ever survives contact with the enemy, but for Karl Eugene von Wurtternburg it was no more of a passing thought. Due to the terrain the enemy's perfectly aligned movements had become disjointed and this lead to openings in the line. The wurternburg cavalry were ordered forward to exploit these by launching a raid on the left flank.
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Feb 19, 2013 05:14
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I don't see what realism or gameplay purpose it serves to keep you from puppetting them on the first go. Once you've destroyed a country's army and navy and taken a few provinces, they'll never be able to recover. Also, I wish there was some way to turn off the redundant/flavor units. Cossacks, Guard Cossacks, Hussars, and Uhlans are completely identical except for the icon, they just take up space in menus. It's even worse with Artillery Batteries vs. Foot Artillery Batteries, the cavalry units at least wear different color shirts. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:That seems like a pretty decent system for a Clausewitz engine wargame, honestly. Yeah, I definitely prefer it to the 'seige everything' systems of EU and Victoria. I wonder if they'll keep it for EU4. esquilax fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 05:23
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esquilax posted:The most annoying part is that some of the dominance goals are frustratingly dumb. For example, as Russia I need to capture Stockholm to raise my land dominance score. Seems pretty straightforward, I send my troops and conquer Sweden, and kill every unit and ship. I can't peace out and take Stockholm, because it's their capital. So now I have a choice occupying Sweden forever (which wouldn't be so bad if my war exhaustion didn't keep going up), or I can peace out and take a few provinces, wait for the truce to expire, and conquer Sweden 3 or 4 more times until I've taken enough provinces to annex or puppet them. What is stopping you from turning them into a satellite? I think the largest country I've decisively ended a war with was Sicily and it let me puppet them on the first go. Same thing with Portugal and a handful of German states whose names I can't even be bothered to remember. Can you not do it to the eight major powers or something?
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Feb 19, 2013 05:31
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:What is stopping you from turning them into a satellite? I think the largest country I've decisively ended a war with was Sicily and it let me puppet them on the first go. Same thing with Portugal and a handful of German states whose names I can't even be bothered to remember. Can you not do it to the eight major powers or something? The required warscore was around 278%. I have a similar issue with Denmark (to get Copenhagen). It needs 170% warscore to puppet.
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Feb 19, 2013 05:32
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From the sounds of it, what I'd really like is a massive alt-history mod with a ton of events, for something to do outside of war (Like Kaiserreich was for DH). I'm still holding off from buying because I'm just not that stoked about war without end.
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Feb 19, 2013 05:43
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esquilax posted:The required warscore was around 278%. I have a similar issue with Denmark (to get Copenhagen). It needs 170% warscore to puppet. Ah, I see. All the countries I puppeted were of varying different sizes and all required exactly 88% warscore to puppet so I thought maybe that was just a flat rate, so to speak. That's kind of silly, then, you'd think there'd be a better way than chipping away at a single country for most of the game's time span.
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Feb 19, 2013 05:43
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esquilax posted:The most annoying part is that some of the dominance goals are frustratingly dumb. For example, as Russia I need to capture Stockholm to raise my land dominance score. Seems pretty straightforward, I send my troops and conquer Sweden, and kill every unit and ship. I can't peace out and take Stockholm, because it's their capital. So now I have a choice occupying Sweden forever (which wouldn't be so bad if my war exhaustion didn't keep going up), or I can peace out and take a few provinces, wait for the truce to expire, and conquer Sweden 3 or 4 more times until I've taken enough provinces to annex or puppet them. You dont need to get ownership of provinces for them to count as yours for dominance.. Control is enough
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Feb 19, 2013 05:47
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Fintilgin posted:It seems way less complex then HoI. There's nothing going on except raising guys and throwing them into the meat grinder. There's a very That said, it's not an insurmountable problem. I'm going to investigate the game's potential for ridiculous bullshit. The entire event system is driven by railroaded events and decisions basically don't exist. I want to see if I can simulate some more EU-ey things like recruiting generals and such (Bavaria can't even field enough generals for an army). Stravinsky posted:10 feb: hour 14- Future military thinkers will probably observe that no plan ever survives contact with the enemy, but for Karl Eugene von Wurtternburg it was no more of a passing thought. Due to the terrain the enemy's perfectly aligned movements had become disjointed and this lead to openings in the line. The wurternburg cavalry were ordered forward to exploit these by launching a raid on the left flank.  Then he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer. Everyone else was guaranteed by Austria, Prussia, or France and, as a minor nation, I can't align myself with any of them unless they're the ones offering. There are no alliance mechanics available to them at all. *edit* Every general in this game has to be pre-defined. As far as I can tell, there's no way to randomly generate more 
Wolfgang Pauli fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 05:58
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pdxjohan posted:You dont need to get ownership of provinces for them to count as yours for dominance.. Control is enough Yeah, my fault. I had the impression that war exhaustion always went up when you were at war, which made just controlling those countries unfeasible. I didn't notice that it was only going up because I had an army taking attrition somewhere.
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Feb 19, 2013 06:02
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In March of the Eagles, I don't know how to move troops into a fort but I keep accidentally doing it, which is very inconvenient because you can't see troops stationed in a fort, so every now and then one of my 35k stacks will just disappear and I have to go clicking around forts to find out where I lost it. What dumb thing am I doing here?
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Feb 19, 2013 06:14
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So I was looking at a thread about MotE someone posted this and I'm wondering if anyone noticed some similar.... strange.... borders?
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Feb 19, 2013 06:22
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Scandinavia is the winner of the ugly border award in my game thus far: Also I'm not sure what's going with Charles II's portrait here: 
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Feb 19, 2013 06:35
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It was King Charles' experimental period.
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Feb 19, 2013 06:37
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Honestly if this turns out to be for EU4 as Sengoku was for Crusaders, then EU4 is going to be pretty good. Like a previous poster said, a whole lot of different units to build. There wasn't much difference between some of them either, like the Guards and Grenadiers were identical except for like one stat. It was also difficult to try and recruit large numbers of units, I couldn't find a way to recruit other than clicking on each city and making a queue. To make armies I would just put all of my units into one province and then sub-divide down to like 15k equally stacked units. Then I would siege the cities in a sort of leapfrog way, using multiple stacks to hit cities with a large fort and using a few armies to attack enemy armies cutting off supplies or reinforce defending armies. All in all it was pretty okay but without a lot of depth. Managing your country is nonexistant, you simply have to keep enough income to build new ships. Diplomacy is a little lacking too, the entire game seems to be showing off the new combat, which I liked. You can smash your troops together and do pretty well, but if you take the time to put certain types of units together you unlock different tactics your generals can choose from that will improve different stats. Naval combat was severely lacking when compared to the army, 4 types of ships, 1 type of transport, and no reason to build anything other than first rate ships of the line. Guards should have been a promotion type thing for infantry/cavalry with enough experience, same thing for grenadiers, maybe not directly recruited. Change your unit type in exchange for experience.
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Feb 19, 2013 06:40
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DrProsek posted:So I was looking at a thread about MotE someone posted this and I'm wondering if anyone noticed some similar.... strange.... borders? Yeeah, Russia in my game seems to like doing the same thing also. It's painful.
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Feb 19, 2013 06:50
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Enrico Dandolo posted:In March of the Eagles, I don't know how to move troops into a fort but I keep accidentally doing it, which is very inconvenient because you can't see troops stationed in a fort, so every now and then one of my 35k stacks will just disappear and I have to go clicking around forts to find out where I lost it. What dumb thing am I doing here? I don't actually have the game, so this is just wild-rear end guessing. But in that screenshot with the Russian borders, on the list-thingy to the right, you can see an entry called "Garrisons." Maybe this is what you're looking for? Try right-clicking the list to see if you can add in the option to view garrisons. That might at least save you the trouble of clicking through provinces to find out where you dropped off armies, even if it doesn't tell you how you got them in there in the first place.
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Feb 19, 2013 06:59
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So the battle descriptions are just tied to the orders that leaders issue during battle. My Bavarian-Austrian battle made it seem like they were dominating the field when I was soundly handing their asses to them. It's basically just the Resign screen of EU3.
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Feb 19, 2013 07:15
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MoTE looks like it can shape up to be a solid purchase. I'm going to hold off now because I'm sure we'll see some DLC + sale at some point, plus most of the problems I've seen will probably be solved by modders at some point, if not outright in forthcoming patches. Sengoku was still terrible  , I'm actually a little surprised Steam even let them charge money for it.
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Feb 19, 2013 07:22
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DrProsek posted:So I was looking at a thread about MotE someone posted this and I'm wondering if anyone noticed some similar.... strange.... borders? Looks like a Paradox game to me
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Feb 19, 2013 07:25
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PhantomZero posted:It was also difficult to try and recruit large numbers of units, I couldn't find a way to recruit other than clicking on each city and making a queue. To make armies I would just put all of my units into one province and then sub-divide down to like 15k equally stacked units. Then I would siege the cities in a sort of leapfrog way, using multiple stacks to hit cities with a large fort and using a few armies to attack enemy armies cutting off supplies or reinforce defending armies. Do it from your Military tab up top. If you click the military tab, click the unit type you want to build, it provides a list of places to build with a number of customization options. Make sure you have a single land rally point and the newly built units will all head over there as soon as they can. edit: Rally points are provinces you designate newly constructed units to move to. When you have multiple rally points, the newly constructed unit moves to the rally point which has the shortest overall travel time. To set up a rally point:  click on a province, such as Malmo. On the bottom right of the province window, two sets of checkboxes exist. The first one is a land rally point. Military Tab: I want to build a bunch of Guard Infantry  First I click the Military Tab up in the top left, bringing up this window. Now I click on Guard Brigade, the last option on that screen.  I could manually click on each place I want to build Guard brigades in, but that seems like a lot of work, so I just click "Select Affordable" giving me the ones checked as shown in this picture. fermun fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 07:25
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What's the deal with Napoleonic games with pictures of Napoleon that don't look anything like him? Seriously? Is there some kind of weird Napoleonic copyright going on that you can't actually have an accurate artistic representation of the guy?   
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Feb 19, 2013 09:35
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V for Vegas posted:What's the deal with Napoleonic games with pictures of Napoleon that don't look anything like him? Seriously? Is there some kind of weird Napoleonic copyright going on that you can't actually have an accurate artistic representation of the guy? Napoleon Total War was great because they had super high detail cutscenes depicting him as some grizzled bad rear end. I'm totally okay with the artistic license CA took.
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Feb 19, 2013 09:38
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Sorry, but giant left leg Napoleon will always be the best Napoleon.
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Feb 19, 2013 10:11
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Kainser posted:
Every country has unit graphics for 1792, 1805, and 1812. There's a constitutional_republic government type and America localization text. There's also localization text for a few countries that aren't independent in 1805: Wallachia, Greece, Moldavia, and our favorites: Paradox posted:The Battle of Kosovo represented the dark sunset of our people as we entered the long night of the Turkish subjugation. Arise now Serbian people! A new dawn is here and we are once more free of the Turkish yoke. Taste now the sweet taste of freedom and be ready the shed our most precious blood to defend it.
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Feb 19, 2013 10:31
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YF-23 posted:First time I see this in a paradox game, you can pick the language of the game on startup: CK2 already does that. quote:
Fixed.
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Feb 19, 2013 10:54
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Fintilgin posted:
If you want politics and social modelling etc that encompasses this era I'd try Paradox's Victoria II title...which is quite good too. I gave this game about a 4hr play though as Prussia on medium - gave Austria an early asswhoopin' while they were off conquering the Ottomans then took on France and ended up in England's coalition. Things were going well as most of the fighting seemed to be in the south in Italy....until I went and had dinner and forgot to pause to find France about to siege Berlin and most of my armies gone. Derp. I like the detail given to battles, though the recount of the battle reads quite funny sometimes and I found a gamey exploit which I think should be fixed - See an army of yours thats about to be crushed? No worries just disband and your dudes find their way back to the manpower pool instantly....doesn't matter if your in enemy territory either. All in all a solid game...dunno if I'll spend hours more playing it though.
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Feb 19, 2013 11:53
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Westminster System posted:Yes, and be glad you have. Really, what? V for Vegas posted:Looks like my intensive beta work for MOE paid off Goons ruin everything Gorgo Primus posted:And then, as predicted, IRC suddenly just said "wait... this is poo poo!". Welp. Whelp, pack it up, everyone stop playing!
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Feb 19, 2013 12:12
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Been playing it a couple of hours, and it seems like a really solid and fun game, but I'm disappointed in the lack in events\goals\generals\anything to do for minor powers. All the different types of units is a bit overwhelming, and this is especially confusing:  After annexing most of Sweden as Denmark and massively expanding my army, it's very disappointing that I still only have 4 generals, and I'll never get any more. There should be a chance for a leaderless army to spawn a new general after a battle, or something. Verdict: Fun, but a bit empty. I'd like to see domination provinces for minor powers.
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Feb 19, 2013 12:31
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Is there something up with Idea Gain for different powers? Playing as Russia versus Persia, Persia seems to gain way more idea points regardless of whether they win or lose the battle. Also, does anyone have a rule of thumb of how to judge how many troops to send to a fight? Supply varies so much from province to province and also changes based on who controls a province that I'm basically resigned to always taking attrition. Gort fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 13:02
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| # ? May 29, 2024 15:20 |
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So how does on get guys into forts? And why does my guys just stand around after battles not fleeing anywhere so my enemy can crush them over and over again?
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Feb 19, 2013 13:15
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