The Order of the Stick: T-Rex, Troll Sex and Will Checks

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The Order of the Stick: T-Rex, Troll Sex and Will Checks

«‹›1417 »

Macdeo Lurjtux: Jul 5, 2011; BRRREADSTOOORRM!

Cat Mattress posted:

Sidenote: the linked article not being part of core rules, they may be ignored at will by any DM. Especially so when the DM is already using homebrewed stuff and isn't really following the rules anyway since it's really a story without actual players.

Pretty sure the DM can ignore any rule on a whim, core or otherwise.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 14:05

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 28, 2024 05:09

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

MechanicalTomPetty posted:

Something I'm not sure has been brought up yet, does Tarquin know about Malack's vampirism? Apparently he kept telling Malack to just go make some more children but that could be taken either way.

("C'mon bro it's mating season and that Viletooth chick is totally checking you out!" )

Tarquin clearly knows. So does Nale.

Alchenar fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Feb 19, 2013

# ? Feb 19, 2013 14:11

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

MikeJF posted:

I think his point was more that 1) Turning Undead, under the rules, strips any character of Nature Magic. 2) Ranger Magic is Nature Magic and thus must go. 3) That includes the Animal Companion bond.

But I see nothing at all about nature magic. The word "nature" doesn't even appear. Also D&D only distinguishes between "arcane" and "divine" anyway (plus "psionic" if you use these rules), druids and rangers are divine casters too; while bards are arcane casters too. There's no such things as nature magic.

And I still see nothing about rangers or druids at all either. The only mention of rangers is in the introduction and talking about ranger wereboars.

quote:

Undeath: Upon reaching 7th level, a vampire gains the undead type, with all of its normal benefits and drawbacks. He no longer has a Constitution score, and he loses any Constitution bonus or penalty on hit points, saving throws, or skills that he may previously have had. He uses either his Charisma modifier or his Constitution modifier (+0), whichever is better, for all skills, save DCs, and other quantities that previously incorporated his Constitution modifier. The vampire becomes immune to many attacks but is subject to turn or rebuke undead attempts and is immediately destroyed if brought to 0 or fewer hit points. All of his current and future Hit Dice increase to d12s. (Rather than rerolling all the character's Hit Dice, you can simply add 4 hit points for every d4 Hit Die the vampire previously had, 3 hit points for every d6 Hit Die, 2 for every d8, and 1 for every d10, if desired.) The vampire immediately becomes evil and subject to the special rules for staking a vampire through the heart.

A vampire cleric may become an ex-cleric if his deity does not accept evil clerics, but character can remedy this problem either by changing allegiance or by devoting himself to an evil cause or a source of evil divine power (selecting new domains if appropriate). A vampire cleric who could normally turn undead loses that ability but gains the ability to rebuke undead, and one who can spontaneously convert spells into cure spells now converts them into inflict spells.

A vampire sorcerer, wizard, or other character who has a familiar is shunned by that creature unless it is a bat or rat, but he can acquire one of those creatures to replace the previous familiar.

Cleric allegiance is addressed. Use of positive or negative energy (turn-vs.-rebuke, cure-vs.-inflict) is addressed. Arcane familiar is addressed. Animal companion isn't addressed. Generic divine abilities outside of patron deity and positive/negative energy use is not addressed.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 14:20

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Guys the rules don't matter is OotS and they never have, unless it's for the purpose of a gag. Rich will run with whatever homebrew version of vampirism his story needs.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 14:24

Eox: Jun 20, 2010; by Fluffdaddy

Obviously Belkar is just going to shave Mr. Scruffys tail and call it good.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 14:32

MechanicalTomPetty: Oct 30, 2011; Runnin' down a dream
That never would come to me

Alchenar posted:

Tarquin clearly knows. So does Nate.

Who is Nate? :v:

It's been awhile since I went through the archives so some of Tarquin and Malack's interactions are a bit fuzzy. Tarquin always struck me as a little ignorant when it came to Malack (such as telling him to just suck it up when it came time to team up with the Linear Guild) but that could be less ignorance and more jaded nonchalance. Nale on the other hand must have known something was up. I bet that whole "killed my family" incident went down when Nale and Tarquin had their falling out.

MechanicalTomPetty fucked around with this message at 14:46 on Feb 19, 2013

# ? Feb 19, 2013 14:37

RickoniX: Dec 4, 2005; A human or elf?

NO NOT A BADGER YOU GOON

Alchenar posted:

Guys the rules don't matter is OotS and they never have, unless it's for the purpose of a gag. Rich will run with whatever homebrew version of vampirism his story needs.

The rules have always at least nominally mattered, Rich likes to keep events within the broad confines of the dnd ruleset without delving into the absurdity that Thunt often breaches.

However in this case it's moot because there is absolutely no restriction on ranger powers or animal companions. Rangers cannot fall, cannot lose their powers, and if you really wanted to you could take levels of ranger as a vampire because there are no restrictions on the class.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 15:22

Hispanic! At The Disco: Dec 25, 2011

Do we know for sure that Mr. Scruffy is an animal companion/familiar? Maybe he's just a cat who likes to follow Belkar around.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 16:23

greatn: Nov 15, 2006; by Lowtax

Don't vampires get animal companions themselves? Like wolves or bats or rats or something? Or maybe that was just Vlad.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 16:28

Shugojin: Sep 6, 2007; THE TAIL THAT BURNS TWICE AS BRIGHT...

Patchwork Shaman posted:

Do we know for sure that Mr. Scruffy is an animal companion/familiar? Maybe he's just a cat who likes to follow Belkar around.

Belkar has referred to Scruffy as an animal companion a few times, so he at least thinks so.

I'm still amazed Rich played this well enough that I stopped thinking Malack was a vampire.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 17:09

reitetsu: Sep 27, 2009; Should you find yourself here one day... In accordance with your crimes, you can rest assured I will give you the treatment you deserve.

How about... undead Mr. Scruffy?

(I haven't played much D&D but animals can't be vampires, right?)

_{I don't actually want Mr. Scruffy to die}

# ? Feb 19, 2013 17:09

Yawgmoth: Sep 10, 2003; This post is cursed!

greatn posted:

Don't vampires get animal companions themselves? Like wolves or bats or rats or something? Or maybe that was just Vlad.

They get the ability to summon a swarm of bats or rats, or some random number (3d4?) wolves.

MechanicalTomPetty posted:

Tarquin always struck me as a little ignorant when it came to Malack (such as telling him to just suck it up when it came time to team up with the Linear Guild)

Telling a vampire to suck anything seems like a poor idea. :v:

# ? Feb 19, 2013 17:33

greatn: Nov 15, 2006; by Lowtax

If Belkar can summon rats than Mr Scruffy is going to eat like a king.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 17:40

Buffer Overflow: Sep 3, 2006; Interweb Addict

MechanicalTomPetty posted:

Who is Nate?

It's been awhile since I went through the archives so some of Tarquin and Malack's interactions are a bit fuzzy. Tarquin always struck me as a little ignorant when it came to Malack (such as telling him to just suck it up when it came time to team up with the Linear Guild) but that could be less ignorance and more jaded nonchalance. Nale on the other hand must have known something was up. I bet that whole "killed my family" incident went down when Nale and Tarquin had their falling out.

Tarquin understands Malack just fine, he just doesn't care because he is really, really evil. He straight up told Malack that they had to team up with the Linear guild because it was business but that at some point Nale would be expendable and then Malack could kill him. Tarquin knows that Malack's "children" were thrall vampires but he is still good with Malack killing his own son for revenge because Malack is a bro.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 17:54

MechanicalTomPetty: Oct 30, 2011; Runnin' down a dream
That never would come to me

greatn posted:

If Belkar can summon rats than Mr Scruffy is going to eat like a king.

Maybe Belkar loses Animal Companion but Mr. Scruffy decides to keep following him anyways. Which largely seemes to be what he had been doing before except now he gets to eat swarms of summoned rats whenever he wants!

# ? Feb 19, 2013 17:55

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

Buffer Overflow posted:

Tarquin understands Malack just fine, he just doesn't care because he is really, really evil. He straight up told Malack that they had to team up with the Linear guild because it was business but that at some point Nale would be expendable and then Malack could kill him. Tarquin knows that Malack's "children" were thrall vampires but he is still good with Malack killing his own son for revenge because Malack is a bro.

For reference see: #854

# ? Feb 19, 2013 18:39

reitetsu: Sep 27, 2009; Should you find yourself here one day... In accordance with your crimes, you can rest assured I will give you the treatment you deserve.

Alchenar posted:

For reference see: #854

Also, the spittle coming out of Malack's mouth in the 7th panel is pinkish-red. :aaa:

# ? Feb 19, 2013 20:37

Nothingtoseehere: Nov 11, 2010

I just noticed Malack makes a note of the steel door in #861 is airtight. Bit odd thing to note, but if hes a vampire and has gaseous form as a SLA it makes sense to note, as he could go through the gaps to help the Linear guild.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 20:55

DoctorTristan: Mar 11, 2006; I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave, like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?

inthesto posted:

Speaking of, one of the finer points of this strip comes in Belkar's expression. It remains completely unchanged from when he got zapped by Hold Person. While it looked like it was anger and rage as Belkar was pouncing, by turning the dude upside-down and adding in a blood drop that could just as easily be a sweat drop with a different color, it turns into an expression of pure distress. Really nice touch there.

A similar thing's going on in the inset to the final panel. By leaving Belkar's eyebrows out of the frame, his expression turns from rage to terror.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 21:40

Colonel Cool: Dec 24, 2006

morcant posted:

Also, the spittle coming out of Malack's mouth in the 7th panel is pinkish-red.

Man I noticed that at the time but I was so sure it was just an indication that Malack was a frail sickly old lizard with a poor constitution; hence his "special diet."

# ? Feb 19, 2013 21:43

DrakePegasus: Jan 30, 2009; It was Plundersaurus Rex's dream to be the greatest pirate dragon ever.

Colonel Cool posted:

Man I noticed that at the time but I was so sure it was just an indication that Malack was a frail sickly old lizard with a poor constitution; hence his "special diet."

He does have a pretty poor Constitution, though. It's so small he can't even find it.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 22:38

wiegieman: Apr 22, 2010; Royalty is a continuous cutting motion

Undead have a nonability Con, not a Con of zero. Intelligent undead use their Cha bonus in place of Con, unintelligent undead are objects for the purpose of Con. So Belkar could rage and Malack has plus however much to fort saves (if he ever had to make them, like to a disintegrate).

# ? Feb 19, 2013 23:18

Colonel Cool: Dec 24, 2006

wiegieman posted:

Undead have a nonability Con, not a Con of zero. Intelligent undead use their Cha bonus in place of Con, unintelligent undead are objects for the purpose of Con. So Belkar could rage and Malack has plus however much to fort saves (if he ever had to make them, like to a disintegrate).

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm

The only time charisma is mentioned in the undead entry is this bit.

quote:

Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 23:35

wiegieman: Apr 22, 2010; Royalty is a continuous cutting motion

I guess it's just some received wisdom on my end then. I could have sworn there was some official position on rage and the like though.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 23:42

jng2058: Jul 17, 2010; We have the tools, we have the talent!

On the other hand under "Constitution" it says: "A creature with no Constitution cannot tire and thus can run indefinitely without tiring (unless the creature�s description says it cannot run)."

Arguably, then, Belkar could Rage forever.

# ? Feb 19, 2013 23:47

Mystic Mongol: Jan 5, 2007; Your life's been thrown in disarray already--I wouldn't want you to feel pressured.; College Slice

wiegieman posted:

I guess it's just some received wisdom on my end then. I could have sworn there was some official position on rage and the like though.

There is: It's in Savage Species, I believe.

They don't get to add their charima bonus to fort saves, though--undead are notoriously vulnerable to fort saves for this very reason, although there's a scarcity of fort spells that can affect them, as they can only be influenced by fort related saves that would also influence an inanimate object.

# ? Feb 20, 2013 00:13

Danzou: Oct 24, 2010; by angerbot

Colonel Cool posted:

Man I noticed that at the time but I was so sure it was just an indication that Malack was a frail sickly old lizard with a poor constitution; hence his "special diet."

Seems like Malack held to the Masquerade pretty well.

It would be pretty funny if Vampires in OotS worked off the V:tM rules, but that isn't the sort of rules joking the comic does anymore.

# ? Feb 20, 2013 00:34

peak debt: Mar 11, 2001; b& :(; Nap Ghost

There's this guy in the Forgotten Realms

He can still use druid spells, but he doesn't have an animal companion. It wouldn't seem too logical to allow an undead character to have an animal companion since animals naturally fear undead in D&D and will flee from them unless forced or coerced to stay. If I was DMing this campaign I'd definitely make the cat run away and tell Belkar he'd either have to go without a companion or get a spider, bat or wolf.

But, OOTS always followed the primacy of the story over the rules, and Belkars relationship with the cat seems too important to just throw away after having built it up for so long.

# ? Feb 20, 2013 04:12

Colonel Cool: Dec 24, 2006

I could see using the prior relationship with the cat to take the story in a new direction by either having the cat flee and freak vampire Belkar out as he loses the one thing he cared about... or by having vampire Belkar turn out to be a complete monster by casually killing Mr Scruffy for kicks the moment he gets the chance.

# ? Feb 20, 2013 04:45

Mocha Frost: May 1, 2006

Colonel Cool posted:

t... or by having vampire Belkar turn out to be a complete monster by casually killing Mr Scruffy for kicks the moment he gets the chance.

Some things you shouldn't even joke about. :smith:

# ? Feb 20, 2013 05:11

Hispanic! At The Disco: Dec 25, 2011

Malack clearly said he should make more childREN, which is plural. So maybe Mr. Scruffy's getting the bite next.

# ? Feb 20, 2013 06:20

TheAceOfLungs: Aug 4, 2010

Patchwork Shaman posted:

Malack clearly said he should make more childREN, which is plural. So maybe Mr. Scruffy's getting the bite next.

Can vampire rangers have vampire animal companions in DnD?

Also, I'm tweaking my prediction of Elan's happy ending: Malack turns the entire Order before all is said and done, but Elan decides that being a Vampire is actually pretty cool, and the best part is that, since Malack is their "father", he and Roy are now Vampire Brothers!

ETA: Either way, I am calling it now that he and Roy will end up somehow related. Is there a (clerical?) spell in DnD that lets you change who your relatives are? Because I think that's where Elan is going to take Roy's advice to "find family among those who are good". (I also wonder how significant it is that Roy speculated that Eric would have been a bard had he lived. And that both Eric and Elan's names begin with 'E' and are two syllables long. Come to think, they pretty much act the same age, too.)

TheAceOfLungs fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Feb 20, 2013

# ? Feb 20, 2013 07:14

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

peak debt posted:

There's this guy in the Forgotten Realms

He can still use druid spells, but he doesn't have an animal companion. It wouldn't seem too logical to allow an undead character to have an animal companion since animals naturally fear undead in D&D and will flee from them unless forced or coerced to stay. If I was DMing this campaign I'd definitely make the cat run away and tell Belkar he'd either have to go without a companion or get a spider, bat or wolf.

But, OOTS always followed the primacy of the story over the rules, and Belkars relationship with the cat seems too important to just throw away after having built it up for so long.

Holy hell 3.5. I just had a TIA from reading that statblock and can't feel half the fingers on my left hand.

# ? Feb 20, 2013 08:14

inthesto: May 12, 2010; Pro is an amazing name!

TheAceOfLungs posted:

Can vampire rangers have vampire animal companions in DnD?

You can only apply the vampire template to humanoids and monstrous humanoids.

# ? Feb 20, 2013 15:58

DoctorTristan: Mar 11, 2006; I would look up into your lifeless eyes and wave, like this. Can you and your associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?

Colonel Cool posted:

I could see using the prior relationship with the cat to take the story in a new direction by either having the cat flee and freak vampire Belkar out as he loses the one thing he cared about... or by having vampire Belkar turn out to be a complete monster by casually killing Mr Scruffy for kicks the moment he gets the chance.

There have been hints that Scruffy is more than just an animal companion (for example he noticed Zz'dtri's scrying sensor), so I'm pretty sure his role in the story is not yet over.

# ? Feb 20, 2013 17:21

SuperKlaus: Oct 20, 2005; Fun Shoe

wiegieman posted:

I guess it's just some received wisdom on my end then. I could have sworn there was some official position on rage and the like though.

Publications later in 3.5's life gave new undead monsters +CHA to each Hit Die, doubtlessly to address the laughably tiny amount of HP previously printed undead had, but it was never a formal rule or revision. They called it "unholy fortitude" or something? As for generally replacing CON with CHA, I don't remember. Why do I remember any of this? I hate myself.

Who's making that new thread? I think this Big Event here is a great jumping-off point, as it is spurring some actual discussion.

# ? Feb 20, 2013 18:24