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BRT with bus lanes sound like a fine idea but I'm not sure why they're incompatible with buses on regular aveues.
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Feb 18, 2013 20:40
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Mandalay posted:BRT with bus lanes sound like a fine idea but I'm not sure why they're incompatible with buses on regular aveues. Call me a cynic but my bet it's just to ensure that the operator is guaranteed a return due to their monopoly position. Is that near the mark? Also, I came across this article which might be of interest to people here. Boston used (anonymised) cellphone tracking data to investigate traffic patterns in Boston and how the jams in that city forms: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/02/cell-phone-tracking-system-reveals-how-traffic-jams-start/ Turns out a small number of journeys from certain areas cause congestion at key nodes which then causes the issue to spread. In theory re-reouting these journeys would have an outsized effect as far as congection relief goes.
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Feb 18, 2013 23:43
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Munin posted:Also, I came across this article which might be of interest to people here. Boston used (anonymised) cellphone tracking data to investigate traffic patterns in Boston and how the jams in that city forms: That data isn't anonymised at all, they tracked people leaving their hose and going to work. And no one seems to realize that.
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Feb 19, 2013 01:56
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Terminal Entropy posted:That data isn't anonymised at all, they tracked people leaving their hose and going to work. And no one seems to realize that. To be fair, cell tower location data isn't all too precise. If you have my cell information, you might have a square kilometer where I live, and a square kilometer where I work, but you won't have an accurate location without additional information. It's not GREAT anonymity, but it's not like they can say "This call here started at 751 Jerk Road and ended at 1 Porkbarrel Plaza" with any sort of confidence.
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Feb 19, 2013 02:10
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Terminal Entropy posted:That data isn't anonymised at all, they tracked people leaving their hose and going to work. And no one seems to realize that. I don't think you understand what anonymized means in this context. This isn't "noone realizes that" it's the scientific practice. Volmarias posted:To be fair, cell tower location data isn't all too precise. If you have my cell information, you might have a square kilometer where I live, and a square kilometer where I work, but you won't have an accurate location without additional information. It's not GREAT anonymity, but it's not like they can say "This call here started at 751 Jerk Road and ended at 1 Porkbarrel Plaza" with any sort of confidence. Even if you had the original addresses listed, it wouldn't tell you what specific person took that route either.
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Feb 19, 2013 02:10
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Volmarias posted:To be fair, cell tower location data isn't all too precise. If you have my cell information, you might have a square kilometer where I live, and a square kilometer where I work, but you won't have an accurate location without additional information. It's not GREAT anonymity, but it's not like they can say "This call here started at 751 Jerk Road and ended at 1 Porkbarrel Plaza" with any sort of confidence. http://www.zeit.de/datenschutz/malte-spitz-data-retention "Green party politician Malte Spitz sued to have German telecoms giant Deutsche Telekom hand over six months of his phone data that he then made available to ZEIT ONLINE. We combined this geolocation data with information relating to his life as a politician, such as Twitter feeds, blog entries and websites, all of which is all freely available on the internet. By pushing the play button, you will set off on a trip through Malte Spitz's life. The speed controller allows you to adjust how fast you travel, the pause button will let you stop at interesting points. In addition, a calendar at the bottom shows when he was in a particular location and can be used to jump to a specific time period. Each column corresponds to one day." Cell phone tower data is pretty drat accurate. Combine it with other information and it gets really creepy really fast.
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Feb 19, 2013 09:43
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Yes, but it wouldn't be difficult to anonymize it further before handing it over to third parties.
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Feb 19, 2013 14:03
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So, I regularly have to drive through this clusterfuck. It's actually not too bad in terms of flow through the junction (except for people who want to go A34(S) to A303(E)), but there are regular accidents. All the minor roads randomly stuck in there don't help, and neither do the steep gradients (not easy to see, but the A30 goes under the A34, so you go through the height of two road bridges in about 500 feet going through the A303 exits). How would you go about fixing this?
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Feb 19, 2013 15:07
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El Chingon posted:The current government is implementing a public transportation system named METROBUS, Istanbul (one of the worst traffic situations in Europe) recently implemented this system, and are also incidentally calling it Metrobus. I've not used it, but people I asked when I was there seemed to think it was a pretty nice stopgap replacement for a subway line (which will never come). It seemed common for people to have to change between the Metrobus trunk line and local lines to get where they were going, or walk some way. Edit: Here is a major Metrobus interchange stop. I was staying in a hotel overlooking it, and the buses seemed to run on a frequent schedule. http://goo.gl/maps/xM319 Of course, if the buses are overcrowded, they need to add more buses, but that shouldn't be a problem, right? Regarding lanes, the point is obviously to make sure the buses run faster than traffic, and punctually, to encourage commuters to take the bus, thus reducing traffic on the highway, so the remaining lanes should be enough. Whether that will work is a different story, but I can totally sympathize with the intent, particularly in Mexico City's overloaded traffic. Hippie Hedgehog fucked around with this message at 16:52 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 16:42
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:Istanbul (one of the worst traffic situations in Europe) recently implemented this system, and are also incidentally calling it Metrobus. I've not used it, but people I asked when I was there seemed to think it was a pretty nice stopgap replacement for a subway line (which will never come). It seemed common for people to have to change between the Metrobus trunk line and local lines to get where they were going, or walk some way. A friend living in Istanbul told me the same thing. Maybe it is for the best. I can't think of many ways to improve the traffic situation. It's so easy to buy a car here in Mexico compared to other countries (cheap gas also helps) that this kind of problems were expected to happen and only now the government is realizing that a good public transport network is the only way to force people to leave their cars at home. I also wonder if different nations/culture react different to traffic. I really thought we were one of the worst drivers in the world until I visited China, they are crazy drivers although their city/transit planning is way better than ours.
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Feb 19, 2013 18:01
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Wolfsbane posted:So, I regularly have to drive through this clusterfuck. By the way, the reason for this clusterfuck is that this used to be a roundabout interchange. They then tried to make it some sort of quasi free flowing monster in the 80s while using as much of the existing roundabout as possible. The A30 to the south is just a left over of the old A34 before it was turned into a proper long distance road, but it remains to give access to a village to the south which is now bypassed by the A34. Additionally in the middle is what used to be (until relatively recently) a pub, which the design also tried to keep access to from all directions. A dedicated slip road from A303(W) to A34(S) tunneling under everything would probably sort most of the problems out because most traffic flow here is to and from the south and the west. There are much better routes for long distance traffic when travelling between any other of the other directions that avoid this junction. The slip hasn't been built though because it would be far too expensive, and this isn't quite an important enough junction for anyone to bother. Edit: the cottages to the west (off the image) are another reason for this design so that they would still have access to everything without having a direct interchange with the dual carriageway. The entire thing was just a really cheap way to tick all the boxes. Edit 2: And if you want to know the full history, originally before either road was dualled this was just a crossroads. The eastern side of what used to be the roundabout was the original A34, explaining the position of the pub, and the A303 followed the same alignment as it does today. Edit 3: Apparently it wasn't just cheapness; this layout was also chosen to ensure that the junction didn't take up any more land. There was a general resistance to road building around here at the time. I'm not 100% sure if the A34(N) to A303(W) slip road is actually original to the redesign, since you don't need it to make that movement. nozz fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Feb 19, 2013 |
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Feb 19, 2013 18:50
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El Chingon posted:I also wonder if different nations/culture react different to traffic. I really thought we were one of the worst drivers in the world until I visited China, they are crazy drivers although their city/transit planning is way better than ours. Speaking of Istanbul, I would nominate their taxi drivers to be some of the worst (& bravest) in the world. Out of maybe 20 taxi trips there, I've been scared shitless for at least half. And speaking of Chinese drivers, it's never too soon to re-read this brilliant blog post: http://soimgoingtochina.blogspot.se/2007/06/beijing-traffic-lesson-left-turn.html
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Feb 19, 2013 22:57
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Sorry I haven't posted in a few days; I've been rather ill.Jeoh posted:Some pretty cool research done in Massachusetts. It's not just bad things there!! It's interesting to see roads classified two-dimensionally like that. The traditional model has a single axis: mobility on one end, and access on the other. El Chingon posted:I've just gotten into this thread and I don't know if you guys can help me with one doubt I've had for a long time. Sorry if this has been asked before. Bus Rapid Transit like METROBUS is basically half-asses mass transit. It'll work in smaller cities where the demand isn't too high, because the initial costs are purportedly lower and it can be easily integrated with the existing network. However, it can't haul nearly as much traffic as a rail line could. The system you describe doesn't make much of the benefits of BRT, and if it's over capacity and their answer isn't 'add more buses', then it was either doomed to begin with or mismanaged. Adding more lines will take some load off the existing ones, but they really would've been better just going with rail from the start. I'm sure there's corruption going on; that's a given, no matter where you are. There are also probably a lot of politicians trying to salvage their mistake, along with some people who genuinely want to help, and just don't have the power (or the skills) to do so properly. Munin posted:Call me a cynic but my bet it's just to ensure that the operator is guaranteed a return due to their monopoly position. Is that near the mark? That sounds about right. The tricky part has always been developing an effective way to re-route traffic; even with extremely accurate information, most drivers would simply prefer to stick with what's familiar. The gap between user-optimal and system-optimal is tough to reconcile. There's hope, though: with the spreading use of GPS, it's more and more possible to manipulate driver patterns remotely. Wolfsbane posted:So, I regularly have to drive through this clusterfuck. A quadrant interchange would work wonderfully here, so long as the turning volumes aren't too high. It'd make things much easier for most drivers, too, since they wouldn't need to take a different series of turns for each direction of travel.
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Feb 20, 2013 18:13
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:Edit: Here is a major Metrobus interchange stop. I was staying in a hotel overlooking it, and the buses seemed to run on a frequent schedule. You can fit a decent number of buses on BRT, but there is a limit, and it's a good deal lower than what a rail system could provide. There's also maintenance to consider: buses will chew up asphalt like a toddler chews LEGO, so if you've got a significant proportion of buses, you'll need to re-pave every year. Gat posted:By the way, the reason for this clusterfuck is that this used to be a roundabout interchange. They then tried to make it some sort of quasi free flowing monster in the 80s while using as much of the existing roundabout as possible. The A30 to the south is just a left over of the old A34 before it was turned into a proper long distance road, but it remains to give access to a village to the south which is now bypassed by the A34. Additionally in the middle is what used to be (until relatively recently) a pub, which the design also tried to keep access to from all directions. A dedicated slip road from A303(W) to A34(S) tunneling under everything would probably sort most of the problems out because most traffic flow here is to and from the south and the west. There are much better routes for long distance traffic when travelling between any other of the other directions that avoid this junction. The slip hasn't been built though because it would be far too expensive, and this isn't quite an important enough junction for anyone to bother. This is why it's important to get the local history for any project. Even for the small projects, we make sure to visit the local residents and ask about their experiences. They're the ones who'll have to deal with it most often, of course. A quadrant interchange could maintain local access pretty easily, though then you'd basically just have a cleaned-up version of what exists out there.
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Feb 20, 2013 18:36
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BRT, especially on a private ROW in a high vehicle frequency scenario, should be paved with reinforced concrete. Buses are heavy (10+ tons) and tear through asphalt roads the same as semis do when they're frequent enough. Anything else is asking for problems: ruts in the road, dips at common vehicle stopping points, rougher rides, major disruptions during repaving/road repairs every few years, etc.. That said, BRT done right is about 2/3 as expensive as LRT and only efficient for multiple branching routes (IE something carrying the kind of vehicle traffic present in the Seattle transit tunnel) or areas where land is plentiful and LRT/Premetro would be overkill in the long term (IE connecting exurban areas with minimal planned intensification into the transit grid without using commuter rail). Anything that's designed as a trunk line with TOD centers and major interchanges should be at minimum LRT/Premetro. Otherwise, you end up with this...  ---------------------- Personally, I prefer suburban BRT when used in a freeway corridor, similar to parts of Ottawa's Transitway system. Send a bunch of routes outbound down the corridor, have them branch out at specific points toward suburban areas. You get the speed benefit of a controlled-access freeway and the frequency benefit of multiple routes in the corridor, while maintaining the ability to operate on the existing road network - if you want to be cheap, BRT vehicles can merge into regular freeway traffic and use the exits. LRT in the same application is problematic for a number of reasons, primarily attributed to how undesirable a large freeway corridor is for residential development. You also need dedicated infrastructure to extend LRT out of the corridor, which tends to get NIMBYs up in arms. Ottawa's problem is that they designed their BRT system as the only mode of rapid transit. No LRT, metro or commuter rail services, just BRT. As Cichlidae mentioned, BRT is just like standard road traffic in that it can only handle so many buses before LOS starts dropping due to vehicle saturation - see the above photo. Ottawa's fix is replacing the central portion of the network and one of the BRT corridors with a Premetro called the Confederation Line (they call it LRT, but it's closer to Premetro due to the underground portion downtown), which should work fine. The other BRT lines will be truncated to their link with the Confederation Line, feeding riders into the system. This is very close to the ideal approach, if only Ottawa hadn't waited until BRT traffic jams were a thing to build LRT. Varance fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Feb 21, 2013 |
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Feb 21, 2013 00:54
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Interesting destruction porn, US-89 in northern Arizona just experienced an unknown "geologic event". I guess they'll reroute the road somewhat instead of trying to shore it up?
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Feb 21, 2013 22:41
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Qwijib0 posted:Interesting destruction porn, US-89 in northern Arizona just experienced an unknown "geologic event". I guess they'll reroute the road somewhat instead of trying to shore it up? Why would you say that?
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Feb 22, 2013 00:18
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I don't think ADOT is _quite_ that industrous 
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Feb 22, 2013 01:17
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6 days sounds fast for just normally rebuilding a road in america.
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Feb 22, 2013 01:52
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Varance posted:Ottawa's problem is that they designed their BRT system as the only mode of rapid transit. No LRT, metro or commuter rail services, just BRT. As Cichlidae mentioned, BRT is just like standard road traffic in that it can only handle so many buses before LOS starts dropping due to vehicle saturation - see the above photo. Ottawa's fix is replacing the central portion of the network and one of the BRT corridors with a Premetro called the Confederation Line (they call it LRT, but it's closer to Premetro due to the underground portion downtown), which should work fine. The other BRT lines will be truncated to their link with the Confederation Line, feeding riders into the system. This is very close to the ideal approach, if only Ottawa hadn't waited until BRT traffic jams were a thing to build LRT. It's being called LRT so that it can in theory service the suburbs, but the way everything is being designed, it's gonna be a metro/subway with low floor, more expensive trains. It's unlikely that within the service life of the first trains bought hat it will have any surface crossings, and unlikely to have any surface running until the third generation of trains, which will finally head into the burbs. I'm very supportive of the line, but I know a huge amount is being wasted on making it compatible with the third generation of train sets that who knows if we'll ever see. It's kind of frustrating knowing that we could have a longer line to star with if the politicians weren't so obsessed with calling it LRT, but it's unlikely he political will (there would be either a fight with the federal government or a very Nimby neighborhood over what is now parkland but was previously a loving streetcar line) would be there anyway so I'll take what I can get.
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Feb 22, 2013 02:22
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Minister Robathan posted:It's being called LRT so that it can in theory service the suburbs, but the way everything is being designed, it's gonna be a metro/subway with low floor, more expensive trains. It's unlikely that within the service life of the first trains bought hat it will have any surface crossings, and unlikely to have any surface running until the third generation of trains, which will finally head into the burbs. Edit: At least it's LRT in a Premetro configuration and not Premetro shoehorned into an LRT configuration like Toronto's Scarborough RT. 
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Feb 22, 2013 02:28
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Kansas City hasn't broken ground on its first span of Streetcar, and it's already looking at expansion options. http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2013/02/21/kansas-city-rfp-streetcar-second-phase.html My opinion is thus: The full network should reach from the airport to 75th street on the N/S corridor, and from Independence to Lenexa on the E/W corridor. Exactly how is an exercise left to the reader.
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Feb 22, 2013 03:55
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I'm just gonna leave this here. More Florida decorative freeway action, this time in 3D! http://previews.urscreativeimaging.com/future_projects/flash-videos/I275.html Edit: Laugh all you want at the vehicle animations... that's actually how people drive in Florida. 
Varance fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Feb 25, 2013 |
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Feb 25, 2013 23:37
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Varance posted:I'm just gonna leave this here. More Florida decorative freeway action, this time in 3D! Those're some nice wide overpasses! If it were designed here, the abutments would be right up against the sidewalks.
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Feb 26, 2013 03:20
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Why does that have so much space in the median?
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Feb 26, 2013 04:12
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will_colorado posted:Why does that have so much space in the median?  Interstate 4 has the same kind of reserved corridor, originally for FHSR, now for express lanes. Varance fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Feb 26, 2013 |
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Feb 26, 2013 14:53
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The future looks an awful lot like Atlanta, apparently.
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Feb 26, 2013 16:56
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Feb 27, 2013 17:21
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Those painted lines don't lead all of the way to the future.
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Feb 28, 2013 14:58
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grillster posted:Those painted lines don't lead all of the way to the future. Speaking of painted lines, let's say you're on a line striping truck. You run out of road, but you've still got a few gallons left in the tank. Cleaning it out would be a huge pain, and it's technically toxic waste, so you can't just dump it. What do you do? ... That's right!  https://www.google.com/maps?ll=41.766302,-72.620198&spn=0.002007,0.004128&t=h&z=19 And, by the way, Bing Maps now has streetside view for a good chunk of Connecticut. Hartford area looks like it's from last June. Check it out sometime. Here's the Busway under construction: http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=41...082&FORM=LMLTCC
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Feb 28, 2013 23:28
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holy poo poo that's a lot of road paint. Also, what do you think about this: http://dc.streetsblog.org/2013/02/28/sprawl-madness-two-houses-share-backyard-separated-by-7-miles-of-roads/
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Mar 1, 2013 00:33
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ConfusedUs posted:holy poo poo that's a lot of road paint. Pretty typical, sadly. That's what happens every time you have a private developer who wants to minimize through traffic. In a way, you can turn it into a benefit if you have bike/ped networks that're much more accessible (bike boulevards, for example). Private developers aren't going to do that for you, though. And 7 miles is just freakin' ridiculous.
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Mar 1, 2013 01:55
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ConfusedUs posted:holy poo poo that's a lot of road paint.  How many tickets would you get for crossing that parking lot without signalling first?
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Mar 1, 2013 02:46
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grover posted:
Remember, parking lots are not under police jurisdiction! 
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Mar 1, 2013 03:05
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Oh my God, all that spaghetti fell out of his fanny pack, how freaking embarrassing.
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Mar 1, 2013 03:14
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Cichlidae posted:Remember, parking lots are not under police jurisdiction!
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Mar 1, 2013 03:49
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grover posted:In Virginia, reckless driving in a parking lot can get you up to a year in jail. Eh, I've seen police reports where people get in parking lot accidents, don't have a license, are under 18, non-insured, unregistered car, and the cops just write an accident report and leave. I suppose it depends on how mean your local police are.
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Mar 1, 2013 03:56
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In Johnson Cty KS, aka the rich, predominantly white-flight part of Kansas City, the property owner can pay like $350 a month for the cops to patrol their parking lots and it extends enforcement of city law onto the lot, stop signs & speed limits, even those stupid decorative ones, or the pop-up sign ones that grocery stores use, are enforceable. One fuckin place had GREEN stop signs for a long-rear end time.
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Mar 1, 2013 07:39
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Cichlidae posted:Speaking of painted lines, let's say you're on a line striping truck. You run out of road, but you've still got a few gallons left in the tank. Cleaning it out would be a huge pain, and it's technically toxic waste, so you can't just dump it. What do you do? But everyone's doing it! 
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Mar 1, 2013 13:19
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That ain't nothin'.
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Mar 1, 2013 14:37
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