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Farecoal
Oct 15, 2011

There he go

I thought Stockholm was on fire for a second

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Enrico Dandolo
Aug 6, 2010

Wolfgang Pauli posted:

I think the opposite. It's the same system from Victoria, except now I have to dig through each flank and reorder them because there's at best a 50/50 shot that the game will distribute them evenly. I can't even properly distribute infantry, artillery, and cavalry in separate armies and merge them, the flanks are always reset. And not only that, I can't change order within the flanks to make it easier to see what type of units I have in them. Making it senseless to play anything but a Great Power is one thing, but the OOB micro is so much of a hassle that I've pretty much already stopped playing it. Especially with new expansions for Vicky 2 and CK2 around the corner.

It's a shame that the most accessible Paradox interface to date is the most backwards and cluttered.

I've won two games against the AI and one in multiplayer and I've never rearranged my troops at the flanks level. Have you found a formula for redistributing your troops that's better than what the computer automatically does for you? I'm willing to believe you're making your armies better, but I've seen nothing in my experience to show that's a good use of your time.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

Darkrenown posted:

It sounded more like he was restating what I had just said after completely misunderstanding me, but if that is what he meant it's not something I can do. I work on these games, I don't run the company, I'm not involved in the marketing department, I agree and I have said the name was a poor choice.

Also, no offence, but this wasn't a trap you "fell for", you just didn't check what you were buying. EUIII complete was complete when it was published, so the name was perfectly accurate at the time. It's unfortunate that caused confusion when a later expansion was made, but it's apparently not possible to solve, so we need to be careful what we call bundles. I didn't think "Collection" implied everything, ever, which was why I asked when Alchenar brought it up.

I feel like Paradox should have the capability to stop selling a thing they released. Is it really impossible for Paradox Interactive to stop selling EU3 Complete entirely? It even goes on sale during Steam events, and everyone has to constantly warn people to never buy it because it's a waste of money and really misleading. I understand it's out of PDS's hands, but someone, somewhere is dropping the ball on that.

The HoI3 collection is a much less severe example of that, but I have witnessed some confusion, with some people having to be warned that there's more to get after that. In the modern day game market, people just kind of expect collections like that to be up to date.

s1234567890m
Feb 19, 2013
Maybe there is enough people who just buy complete + HTTT and dont want the DW changes, to justify keeping it.

But they probably should look at renaming it

gradenko_2000
Oct 5, 2010

HELL SERPENT
Lipstick Apathy
I want to say that Civ 5's Game of the Year edition also did not include the Gods and Kings expansion, even after it had already been released for some time. Paradox just gets a bad rap because of EU3 Complete (even though they've improved their naming since then) and because they're one of the few companies that actually releases enough non-cosmetic DLC that getting "really complete" collections is that important.

Dr. Video Games 0031
Jul 17, 2004

Firaxis have stopped selling Civ V GOTY edition entirely and replaced it with Civ V Gold, which contains Gods & Kings.

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010

gradenko_2000 posted:

I want to say that Civ 5's Game of the Year edition also did not include the Gods and Kings expansion, even after it had already been released for some time. Paradox just gets a bad rap because of EU3 Complete (even though they've improved their naming since then) and because they're one of the few companies that actually releases enough non-cosmetic DLC that getting "really complete" collections is that important.
The difference between Chronicles and Complete isn't just a few DLC though -- it's two game-changing expansions. I don't think anybody would fuss if Complete just lacked some DLCs.

Wolfgang Pauli
Mar 26, 2008

One Three Seven
It wouldn't be such a big deal if the mistake didn't cost the customer $20. That was enough to make me swear very loudly when I had realized what I had done. I had even seen both copies and thought "Oh, well Chronicles must be the pre-HTTT one." This was long before this thread warned about this right in the subtitle, and that $20 price gap still exists.

I wonder: will Paradox offer refunds and let people who bought Complete switch to Chronicles? I mean, you guys literally gave away Chronicles for free. If you're going to stick the customer for :20bux: then you can say whatever you want, you'll still be seen as gouging based on misleading marketing.

Wolfgang Pauli fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Feb 24, 2013

fermun
Nov 4, 2009
So, a small gripe with MotE:



This is 100k dead Russians because I forgot to move them out of the satellite's territory before asking for peace. Is it possible to mod in that every peace deal should include a month of military access deal or is that something that must be patched in by Paradox? It'd obviously be cancelled the next month because Prussia hates me, but it's super annoying that you can get so many people killed from that.

It's annoying in other games, but significantly worse with MotE because you're likely to have a shifting set of alliances. This has been an everyone-for-themselves 5 man game. France, Great Britain, Austria, Prussia, me (Russia). My current enemies are France, Spain, and France's satellites, but here I am stuck in one of Saxony's provinces because of stupid. I might be fine because Austria will now want to get back the territories Prussia took when they were my ally, but that wouldn't work if this were AI. There should be a Paradox solution to this, and I don't even know what. A temporary military access deal for a few months would make sense though. It happens to satellites all the time in single player.

YouTuber
Jul 31, 2004

by FactsAreUseless
So I'm playing Scotland on my first go through in EUIII and I'm probably going to win a war against England and its allies. From my understanding as I'll have 100% of England's counties captured I should have the option to Annex them in totality. I already own Ulster which has finally become a core province and Cambra, Northumberland and the one south of it I can't remember at the moment which are revolting poo poo holes because of their recent capture. My question really is, should I annex all of England and Wales? I'm barely able to support a single Man-at-Arms levy without minting. My inflation is already at something astonishing like 15% from all the minting I have to do just to stay solvent. The only reason I was able to beat England is because of that stupid Highlander event that gives 12 levies of troops out of nowhere for free. If I conclude the war I'll be unable to stop the Annexed English counties from revolting. If Annexing is a poo poo option what is my best course of action to ensure that England remains in the gutter so I can piece mail conquer it? Force them to release Wales and vassalize both?

How exactly do you lower inflation? The Tax Assessor building takes some ridiculous tech level to research before you can get to it.

YouTuber fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Feb 24, 2013

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

YouTuber posted:

So I'm playing Scotland on my first go through in EUIII and I'm probably going to win a war against England and its allies. From my understanding as I'll have 100% of England's counties captured I should have the option to Annex them in totality. I already own Ulster which has finally become a core province and Cambra, Northumberland and the one south of it I can't remember at the moment which are revolting poo poo holes because of their recent capture. My question really is, should I annex all of England and Wales? I'm barely able to support a single Man-at-Arms levy without minting. My inflation is already at something astonishing like 15% from all the minting I have to do just to stay solvent. The only reason I was able to beat England is because of that stupid Highlander event that gives 12 levies of troops out of nowhere for free. If I conclude the war I'll be unable to stop the Annexed English counties from revolting. If Annexing is a poo poo option what is my best course of action to ensure that England remains in the gutter so I can piece mail conquer it? Force them to release Wales and vassalize both?

How exactly do you lower inflation? The Tax Assessor building takes some ridiculous tech level to research before you can get to it.

OK, bunch of things to clear up here.

First off, you are almost certainly not going to be able to annex England. Countries need to be pretty small, like 3-5 provinces at best before you get the option to annex them. So those concerns are largely moot.

Secondly, you don't need to mint to stay solvent, knock that minting off. A MONTHLY deficit is fine. What you need to worry about is the ANNUAL deficit - you can check by hovering over the money icon to see how much you bring in every New Year's Day. It doesn't matter if you lose 2 ducats every month if your annual tax brings in 26 ducats. Yeah, it's a bit confusing, which is probably why they're overhauling the system in EU4.

Third, a single regiment is a tiny standing army. With your new understanding of how taxation works, recruit something more respectable and capable of beating off rebels, which probably aren't going to be that big an issue if you take only a handful of English provinces.

Fourth, England is probably still too large to effectively vassalize at this point. Your best bet is to break them up into as many minor countries as you can, which is essentially Cornwall and Wales if I recall aright. Otherwise, smash their field armies, fund a few random rebels in their territory if you can afford it, and hope they're too busy fighting rebels to bother with you. Odds are they're still going to be dangerous for a while, though.

Fifth, try recruiting a Master of Mint advisor to reduce inflation. Increased centralization also helps.

Flame112
Apr 21, 2011
I'm pretty sure as Scotland that you do have to mint early to be able to do anything other than get owned by England.

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012
please give me anything to talk about besides the fact that democrats are allowing millions of americans to be evicted from their homes

WhitemageofDOOM posted:

Dear paradox devs, do you know why i'm not conquering germany with an army of angry normans in viccy 2 right now?

Because it is micro hell, it is really annoying to have to keep chasing down stupid stacks of 2000 austrians or they will siege my provinces and breaking my sieges and make the dumb computer think it can win after i crushed their army three times now. Also the computer deciding i need to siege st.petersburg to make russia accede to my demands on great power prussia is kinda dumb.

It is pretty dumb, and it's something we hope to improve in HoD in a similar to how CK2 does it. There'll be details in one of the dev diaries.

SA_Avenger
Oct 22, 2012

mmtt posted:

I want to play MotE MP with goons? What do I do ? Where do I go ?

e: mmtt on steam

added you feel free to pm me for a game when you see me on steam :) (same handle as here)

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

Flame112 posted:

I'm pretty sure as Scotland that you do have to mint early to be able to do anything other than get owned by England.

OK, yeah, that's true, but you're not supposed to mint for the sake of simply staying solvent. Mint for the sake of maintaining an oversized army, which will almost certainly be operating at a monthly deficit.

Lucky Samurai
Oct 4, 2011

Being jaded about something is so cool. You're just as useless as everybody else, but you get to be irritating and bitter about it.

Sixth: Minimize your land and naval maintenance when not at war. Paying higher maintenance increases maximum morale, so it isn't necessary if you aren't at war. Crank up the maintenance sliders a month or two before you declare war to get your morale back up to fighting levels.

Zip
Mar 19, 2006

Lichtenstein posted:

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games > Paradox Grand Strategy: two men enter, Darkrenown leaves

I lost my poo poo reading this. Darkrenown does come off kind of blunt sometimes but it's really resulted in one of the most entertaining threads in games right now... I'm really hoping someone pokes the bear again and again.

and is there any eta on The Old Gods expansion for CK2 yet or EU4? I just need to know when to set money aside.

Proposition Joe
Oct 8, 2010

He was a good man
I haven't played March of the Eagles but it seems like poop so I'm not going to buy it.

CONTROVERSY.

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012
please give me anything to talk about besides the fact that democrats are allowing millions of americans to be evicted from their homes
ANGRY REPLY!

Hi Zip! Still just Q2/Q3 respectively, no exact date.

Hefty Leftist
Jun 26, 2011

"You know how vodka or whiskey are distilled multiple times to taste good? It's the same with shit. After being digested for the third time shit starts to taste reeeeeeaaaally yummy."


Proposition Joe posted:

I haven't played March of the Eagles but it seems like poop so I'm not going to buy it.

CONTROVERSY.

Darkrenown comin'.

mmtt
May 8, 2009
We are starting out a Goon MotE game just to see how it goes.

Hit me on steam if you are around and want to join in. It's more of a tutorial game so everyone gets how things work.

Zip
Mar 19, 2006

Darkrenown posted:

ANGRY REPLY!

Hi Zip! Still just Q2/Q3 respectively, no exact date.

Q2 is not coming fast enough. I can wait on EU4 because I have yet to really learn EU3 but I can't wait to play Pagans...

Especially after the last expansion. Trade republics were pretty fun to play so if pagans are half as fun my life will suffer in really awesome ways. (edit: j/k I don't poopsock)

Also my girl is pregnant with a boy and just to be terribly nerdy, I have been informing people about the pregnancy by explaining that "my titles are secure and we have no succession issues since I will now have a male heir." -Since I'm from usa this has led to some really confused/cryptic responses from people who have no idea wtf I'm babbling about... oh and one random raver girl I know told me I was "racist" for saying that.
I'm still not sure not if she meant sexist or if she just got confused.

Zip fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Feb 24, 2013

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012
please give me anything to talk about besides the fact that democrats are allowing millions of americans to be evicted from their homes
I may have a slight bias, but I think pagans are looking pretty neat. You'll be needing that sock.

Wolfgang Pauli
Mar 26, 2008

One Three Seven
My USCA game makes me realize just how badly the new crisis system is needed. My first V2 game in forever and hardly anyone is going to war with each other. I'm about to pick a fight with America just to have something to do.

YouTuber
Jul 31, 2004

by FactsAreUseless

Tomn posted:

OK, yeah, that's true, but you're not supposed to mint for the sake of simply staying solvent. Mint for the sake of maintaining an oversized army, which will almost certainly be operating at a monthly deficit.

It was an annual deficit of some retarded number like 50-60 ducats with no army at all. I outright couldn't understand it. I attempted to hire a Master of the Mint but it was always greyed out for some reason.

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice
Should I play EU3 before getting 4 this summer? I've only ever played CK2, and it sounds like EU4 is going to look and play more like CK2.

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

YouTuber posted:

It was an annual deficit of some retarded number like 50-60 ducats with no army at all. I outright couldn't understand it. I attempted to hire a Master of the Mint but it was always greyed out for some reason.

Huh. Post a screenshot of your budget window, maybe someone can figure out what's up.

Tomn
Aug 23, 2007

And the angel said unto him
"Stop hitting yourself. Stop hitting yourself."
But lo he could not. For the angel was hitting him with his own hands

YouTuber posted:

It was an annual deficit of some retarded number like 50-60 ducats with no army at all. I outright couldn't understand it. I attempted to hire a Master of the Mint but it was always greyed out for some reason.

Um, yeah, that's not supposed to happen. Something's gone squirrely.

Also, re: Master of the Mint, I believe you need a certain amount of cultural tradition before you can hire one. Can't recall the exact amount, though.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice

Wolfgang Pauli posted:

This is the concern. It's one of workflow. It's not that the detail isn't appreciated, but how is this -- or any expansion to the military game from the HoI datum -- a priority? This is in an era where the only things really significant about military actions were supply lines, troop placements (not actions), and technology. All the news coming out of the game seems to point to complex and very sensitive diplomatic situations beings reduced to this:


And unless BL-Logic has some seriously good AI programmers, all this detail won't mean a thing.

Maybe if there was a way to interact with this beyond parking a stack on a province and going to do something else. Set It and Forget It is not good design when you're talking about the most crucial moments of your game.

Maybe they intend the game to be played in Multiplayer?



Wait this is real?

Trujillo
Jul 10, 2007

YouTuber posted:

It was an annual deficit of some retarded number like 50-60 ducats with no army at all. I outright couldn't understand it. I attempted to hire a Master of the Mint but it was always greyed out for some reason.

Colonial maintenance can be just as expensive as fielding an army if you have a lot of developing colonies. Also your master of mint problem might be that you can only hire one of a type of minister at a time.

A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

YouTuber posted:

It was an annual deficit of some retarded number like 50-60 ducats with no army at all. I outright couldn't understand it. I attempted to hire a Master of the Mint but it was always greyed out for some reason.
You weren't at -3 stability or something, with high war exhaustion? Possibly with an oversized navy? That's really the only thing I can think of, other than a problem with the installation. (Or maybe being hit with some really lovely modifier, but that's more of a Magna Mundi the Mod thing.)

Trujillo posted:

Colonial maintenance can be just as expensive as fielding an army if you have a lot of developing colonies.
But would he be colonizing before even beating the English? It is a possibility though, colonies can be expensive as heck.

Trujillo posted:

Also your master of mint problem might be that you can only have one type of minister at a time.

You seem to be saying the opposite of what you mean here. To clarify; you can only have one minister of a single type at any one time, so if you already have a MotM then you can't hire another. If there's a better/younger one then you can replace the old one directly.

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!

A Buttery Pastry posted:

You seem to be saying the opposite of what you mean here. To clarify; you can only have one minister of a single type at any one time, so if you already have a MotM then you can't hire another. If there's a better/younger one then you can replace the old one directly.

Yeah, this was changed at one point, wasn't it? I seem to remember you used to be able to have 3 of one type, which was hilariously over powered.

Orange Devil
Oct 1, 2010

Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Raenir Salazar posted:



Wait this is real?

What's up with so many people never having seen a civilized city before?

Friend Commuter
Nov 3, 2009
SO CLEVER I WANT TO FUCK MY OWN BRAIN.
Smellrose

Orange Devil posted:

What's up with so many people never having seen a civilized city before?

Most of the posters on SA are yanks.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


Fintilgin posted:

Yeah, this was changed at one point, wasn't it? I seem to remember you used to be able to have 3 of one type, which was hilariously over powered.

It was changed with Divine Wind, I believe.

Anyway the budget screen is good for telling you where your money comes from and where it goes; if there's a huge deficit then you can just check which of your expenses is the culprit of a ridiculous balance.

Fintilgin
Sep 29, 2004

Fintilgin sweeps!

Friend Commuter posted:

Most of the posters on SA are yanks.

As an actual live Yank, I always wonder what they do with those weird courtyards in the middle of the blocks. They seemed to hemmed in/shadowed to be nice place to relax, you can't get at them to park cars, you haven't stuck a McDonalds there, so... ???

EDIT: Plus it's weird, because it seems like half the windows are like looking into other peoples houses from 20 feet away.

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Fintilgin posted:

As an actual live Yank, I always wonder what they do with those weird courtyards in the middle of the blocks. They seemed to hemmed in/shadowed to be nice place to relax, you can't get at them to park cars, you haven't stuck a McDonalds there, so... ???
In the good cities, you just lay around and shoot the poo poo, it's pretty dope.

In the bad cities, you shoot dope and then you just lay around, it's pretty poo poo.

Dibujante
Jul 27, 2004

Darkrenown posted:

It sounded more like he was restating what I had just said after completely misunderstanding me, but if that is what he meant it's not something I can do. I work on these games, I don't run the company, I'm not involved in the marketing department, I agree and I have said the name was a poor choice.

Also, no offence, but this wasn't a trap you "fell for", you just didn't check what you were buying. EUIII complete was complete when it was published, so the name was perfectly accurate at the time. It's unfortunate that caused confusion when a later expansion was made, but it's apparently not possible to solve, so we need to be careful what we call bundles. I didn't think "Collection" implied everything, ever, which was why I asked when Alchenar brought it up.
Basically, calling them something other than "Complete" is probably fine. The main problem is that once they become invalidated, people who don't religiously follow the release schedule get confused.

Raenir Salazar
Nov 5, 2010

College Slice

Friend Commuter posted:

Most of the posters on SA are yanks.

I'm Canadian from Montreal so its a mix of where the old buildings are all intermixed with new stuff and some cruddy old or new stuff that looks cruddy. To me though it looked like from inside a game :ohdear:

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A Buttery Pastry
Sep 4, 2011

Delicious and Informative!
:3:

Fintilgin posted:

Yeah, this was changed at one point, wasn't it? I seem to remember you used to be able to have 3 of one type, which was hilariously over powered.
Though IIRC, the new ones are also twice as effective. At least for some advisers. Or maybe that's just Magna Mundi. It makes a lot of sense though that you can only have one of each type, just imagine how pissy a superstar adviser would get if you brought in another dude to get a second opinion.

Fintilgin posted:

As an actual live Yank, I always wonder what they do with those weird courtyards in the middle of the blocks. They seemed to hemmed in/shadowed to be nice place to relax, you can't get at them to park cars, you haven't stuck a McDonalds there, so... ???
Ready to have your mind blown? Back in the day they used to have a secondary and often tertiary row of apartments in those courtyards, which were cleared out at some point because people realized that cholera is kind of lovely. You can use the courtyards for practical stuff like parking your bike, putting up your laundry to dry, playing or just lay around like NihilCredo said. It's not like us Scandinavians aren't used to living in darkness, so just getting light reflected off clouds is enough for us assuming the weather is nice - the courtyards are at least usually rather good at shielding one from the wind, unlike everywhere else.

Fintilgin posted:

EDIT: Plus it's weird, because it seems like half the windows are like looking into other peoples houses from 20 feet away.
Usually apartments are designed in ways that minimizes that, by using different angles, outcroppings and strategic placement of bathrooms.

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