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I am OK
Mar 9, 2009

LAWL

tuyop posted:

How many years are you willing to write off as pure sacrifice?

Like, say someone told you that it was just one more year, and then ten months later said that someone had lost a piece of paperwork or filed it incorrectly so the whole year had to start over... and then this happened three times. Would you wait another year? What if it happened again?

I would set a debt target and once I'd achieved it, quit. In the meantime I would have sorted out an escape plan. It's not about somebody telling you what to do, it's about taking control yourself with achievable but significant goals.

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I am OK
Mar 9, 2009

LAWL
As an example, I did a job I hated for 14 months, and during that time I didn't go out, barely saw my friends, and spent every weekend and week night studying for a course I was doing, then doing a language course. After that I just sat at home doing gently caress all just to save money. I paid off outstanding debt and saved a certain amount of cash that allowed me to move abroad. It's nothing major compared to what some guys here do but my point is that I set difficult goals but they weren't outside of the realms of possibility. And it sucked, hard, but now I'm glad I did it.

Nether Postlude
Aug 17, 2009

His mind will keep
reverting to the last
biscuit on the plate.

Fraternite posted:

No, it really is.

Doing meaningful work is an important part of a lot of people's self-worth, and getting paid to do nothing doesn't really cut it.

Yeah it does. Most people's jobs aren't meaningful or life-affirming or whatever. They get paid so they can make rent and pay bills and pay off debts. In this economy, most people do not really have much of a choice.

Nether Postlude fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Feb 10, 2013

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
If you release before being medically discharged, what happens to your benefits?

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe
My daily workload consists of the following:

Get to work at 7, high five (salute) my boss, ask for work, get none. Chill and read until 11:30. At 11:30 go for a swim or something. Get back at 1, try to find some more work, read until 4:30.

Every so often a piece of policy has to be written, like a standing order telling soldiers not to smoke in the barracks or the unit's leave policy. When I arrived I was super keen to make a good impression and hopefully get some actual responsibility, and I wrote about 80 pages of policy in the first week, there hasn't been much since. This unit refuses to give me any contact with soldiers because I'm technically a student, even though administratively I'm staff and for the past year I've managed pers files and leave audits and all the other bureaucratic stuff without incident while teaching tactics and combat estimates.

Before, at Gagetown, I had a pretty busy day managing like 105 PATs and arguing for their benefits and writing up memos and stuff to get poo poo done for them. I liked that job because I got to help people. It also seemed to be my boss's policy to have you go do things that you cared about if you finished your work and had no other tasks (they would text you if you had to come in), here it is absolutely vital that you be at your desk at all times.

FrozenVent posted:

If you release before being medically discharged, what happens to your benefits?

The problem is that in that case you've been released under an inappropriate category. A 4C is a voluntary release, a 3B (or 3A) is a medical release. Here's the release reference in case anyone cares.

4C entitles you to your pension contributions and severance, which for me is about 25k now.

3B entitles you to all the 4C stuff plus vocational rehabilitation and a serving member reeducation thing.

The reeducation thing is just full time reeducation (fully subsidized) with part time work (for full pay)while you await your release, then the vocational rehab starts up with 75% of your income (tax free) until you find a job that pays at least 75% of your pre-release salary, plus fully funded reeducation, plus priority government rehiring, and some relocation benefits IIRC.

However, if you 4C when the army breaks you, you can still receive the 3B benefits, you just have to go through the ombudsman to have your release item retroactively changed from 4C to 3B, then get all your other stuff like reeducation expenses reimbursed. You can also sue the Canadian Forces for wasting your time in cases of mismanagement. My case has been very poorly managed. Apparently it's an annoying and long process, but I'd rather go through a long process as a civilian than in my current situation.

tuyop fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Feb 10, 2013

cstine
Apr 15, 2004

What's in the box?!?

tuyop posted:

My daily workload consists of the following:

Get to work at 7, high five (salute) my boss, ask for work, get none. Chill and read until 11:30. At 11:30 go for a swim or something. Get back at 1, try to find some more work, read until 4:30.

Every so often a piece of policy has to be written, like a standing order telling soldiers not to smoke in the barracks or the unit's leave policy. When I arrived I was super keen to make a good impression and hopefully get some actual responsibility, and I wrote about 80 pages of policy in the first week, there hasn't been much since. This unit refuses to give me any contact with soldiers because I'm technically a student, even though administratively I'm staff and for the past year I've managed pers files and leave audits and all the other bureaucratic stuff without incident while teaching tactics and combat estimates.

Before, at Gagetown, I had a pretty busy day managing like 105 PATs and arguing for their benefits and writing up memos and stuff to get poo poo done for them. I liked that job because I got to help people. It also seemed to be my boss's policy to have you go do things that you cared about if you finished your work and had no other tasks (they would text you if you had to come in), here it is absolutely vital that you be at your desk at all times.


The problem is that in that case you've been released under an inappropriate category. A 4C is a voluntary release, a 3B (or 3A) is a medical release. Here's the release reference in case anyone cares.

4C entitles you to your pension contributions and severance, which for me is about 25k now.

3B entitles you to all the 4C stuff plus vocational rehabilitation and a serving member reeducation thing.

The reeducation thing is just full time reeducation (fully subsidized) with part time work (for full pay)while you await your release, then the vocational rehab starts up with 75% of your income (tax free) until you find a job that pays at least 75% of your pre-release salary, plus fully funded reeducation, plus priority government rehiring, and some relocation benefits IIRC.

However, if you 4C when the army breaks you, you can still receive the 3B benefits, you just have to go through the ombudsman to have your release item retroactively changed from 4C to 3B, then get all your other stuff like reeducation expenses reimbursed. You can also sue the Canadian Forces for wasting your time in cases of mismanagement. My case has been very poorly managed. Apparently it's an annoying and long process, but I'd rather go through a long process as a civilian than in my current situation.

So basically, sticking it out could be $100k+ to you, and saying gently caress it would be $25k.

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

cstine posted:

So basically, sticking it out could be $100k+ to you, and saying gently caress it would be $25k.

The dubious, illusive benefits that I may receive, plus the income in the meantime, are worth about $140 000, plus things that are not so easily quantifiable such as entering school debt free with the same take-home pay that I have now while not working. Saying gently caress it means that I get those anyway, but maybe not for a couple of years. (So really, same poo poo)

The problem is that I have no idea when or if I'm going to get those benefits, that's just what I ought to receive. I absolutely don't trust anyone in the whole organization to do anything predictable in a timely manner.

If things had been managed properly – like, by the book, I would have gone on the first medical category in July 2010, then a second one in February 2011 when I saw no improvement or went on course and got reinjured. Then in August 2011 I would have received a permanent category and been put in a holding position in a base of my choice while they sorted out the benefits, probably starting university in September 2012 or upgrading credits in September 2011, depending.

tuyop fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Feb 10, 2013

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Have you considered talking to a lawyer?

In the glorious free USA, I imagine that soldiers aren't allowed to sue the government over military things (but maybe they can talk to an army lawyer or something) but maybe in socialist canuckistan it's an option.

I'm not suggesting paying a lawyer, mind you: just a free consult, to see if you have an option. Perhaps something as simple as a lawyerspeak letter sent to the right place could lubricate the process.

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

Leperflesh posted:

Have you considered talking to a lawyer?

In the glorious free USA, I imagine that soldiers aren't allowed to sue the government over military things (but maybe they can talk to an army lawyer or something) but maybe in socialist canuckistan it's an option.

I'm not suggesting paying a lawyer, mind you: just a free consult, to see if you have an option. Perhaps something as simple as a lawyerspeak letter sent to the right place could lubricate the process.

It's worth a consult for sure, but serving members are not able to sue the government. You have to release first.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
Have you tried calling your MP? It probably won't get you in your superior's good grace, but when I was in a non-military area of public service, it worked wonders for personnel issues, apparently.

(Mind you in the story I heard, the guy's MP was Jean Chretien so...)

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

FrozenVent posted:

Have you tried calling your MP? It probably won't get you in your superior's good grace, but when I was in a non-military area of public service, it worked wonders for personnel issues, apparently.

(Mind you in the story I heard, the guy's MP was Jean Chretien so...)

I called Robert Chisholm's office to get in touch and introduce myself in December, but I've never had to actually bring up any issues because just threatening to call my MP has gotten me all the appointments and expedited admin I've asked for. For instance, I've been trying to see an education coordinator by writing memos since September 2010, I told my doctor that I was thinking of calling my MP and the next week I had three appointments with different reeducation folks. It makes me feel like a huge queue-jumping rear end in a top hat, but enough is enough.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.
When you're getting hosed up the rear end daily for months on end, it's ok to be an rear end in a top hat.

MagicCube
May 25, 2004

tuyop posted:


4C entitles you to your pension contributions and severance, which for me is about 25k now.

3B entitles you to all the 4C stuff plus vocational rehabilitation and a serving member reeducation thing.

The reeducation thing is just full time reeducation (fully subsidized) with part time work (for full pay)while you await your release, then the vocational rehab starts up with 75% of your income (tax free) until you find a job that pays at least 75% of your pre-release salary, plus fully funded reeducation, plus priority government rehiring, and some relocation benefits IIRC.

However, if you 4C when the army breaks you, you can still receive the 3B benefits, you just have to go through the ombudsman to have your release item retroactively changed from 4C to 3B, then get all your other stuff like reeducation expenses reimbursed. You can also sue the Canadian Forces for wasting your time in cases of mismanagement. My case has been very poorly managed. Apparently it's an annoying and long process, but I'd rather go through a long process as a civilian than in my current situation.

I'm not sure where you got this information from, but it isn't entirely accurate. I released 4C after my injury and received all the benefits entitled to a 3B release through Veteran's Affairs. They told me upfront they would get me the benefits I deserved even though my release item wasn't 3B. (Long story).

Also, the CF stopped retroactively changing release items. It doesn't happen anymore and I was briefed pretty thoroughly on the process at the time of my release. I was clearly told that the release item would not be changed and there was no process in which to get it changed. Previously they used to change it, but not anymore. Either way, it's irrelevant because with proper documentation and legit medical issues 4C releases can get the exact same benefits as a 3B release.

And also to add, once you are released you can get really good health insurance through Veteran's Affairs until you hit 65.

MagicCube fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Feb 10, 2013

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

MagicCube posted:

I'm not sure where you got this information from, but it isn't entirely accurate. I released 4C after my injury and received all the benefits entitled to a 3B release through Veteran's Affairs. They told me upfront they would get me the benefits I deserved even though my release item wasn't 3B. (Long story).

Also, the CF stopped retroactively changing release items. It doesn't happen anymore and I was briefed pretty thoroughly on the process at the time of my release. I was clearly told that the release item would not be changed and there was no process in which to get it changed. Previously they used to change it, but not anymore. Either way, it's irrelevant because with proper documentation and legit medical issues 4C releases can get the exact same benefits as a 3B release.

And also to add, once you are released you can get really good health insurance through Veteran's Affairs until you hit 65.

Wow, thanks. I don't know what the ombudsman was talking about then. I'm meeting with VAC tomorrow morning as well, I'll bring this up!

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Leperflesh posted:

Critically important information that can have lots of fine details and caveats and contingencies, and which is also super important to your financial future, is not something you rely on some guy on the phone giving to you. I mean it's good for preliminary fact-finding, but for gently caress's sake get this in writing. Think about how many times it's already happened, where some army pencil pusher told you x, and then it turned out that either that wasn't the whole story, or they were wrong, or you misunderstood, or they misunderstood what you were asking, and a year later oh wow hey guess what, everything's hosed up or you missed out on a bunch of money or your thing sat in the wrong pile of paperwork forever or etc. etc.

Do you believe me yet? Stop relying on the word of people you talk to, even if they should know what they're talking about. Get this poo poo in writing.

HooKars
Feb 22, 2006
Comeon!

tuyop posted:

It also seemed to be my boss's policy to have you go do things that you cared about if you finished your work and had no other tasks (they would text you if you had to come in), here it is absolutely vital that you be at your desk at all times.

You sound like you had a very nice boss but I'd say on average, the great majority of jobs (teaching included) require you to be present at your place of business and performing work-like functions during normal business hours (or whatever hours you're supposed to work). It's pretty rare to just be able to come and go as you please and have a boss that is nice enough to text you when you have work to do. As a teacher, at least, you'll never be starved for work. Have you thought about tutoring or maybe volunteering at a place where you could help kids with homework or something similar as a way to start on the teacher route?

Edit: I missed this: "Anything he wants to do to get him closer to being a teacher has to be done after work or on the weekend. He's been volunteering on most weekends and nights teaching people how to read."
- It sounds like you're still helping people out, even if it's done outside of work. A lot of people find fulfillment outside of their jobs rather than through their jobs. Can you not get more involved in these aspects of your life (take on a leadership role in the organization or something after some time? etc.) to the point where maybe your job can take on a less important role -- at least in the short term?

HooKars fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Feb 12, 2013

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you
When I started my first career job, I too was worried that I wasn't doing enough. I got bored because I would finish all my work so quickly, and the nature of the workflow was very ebb and flow throughout the month. I kept pestering my bosses and co-workers to give me more work to do. I expressed my frustration to a senior manager, and that I felt like I was being under-utilized. He told me that I am hired and paid because I achieve certain results and deliverables. They are happy to pay someone my salary for the results I produce each week, whether it takes someone 10 hours or 60 hours of work to achieve.

It really helped me to realize that not everyone can do what I do, and that's why they pay me what they do. I've worked much harder for much less in the past, but that's a completely irrelevant comparison.
The work load did pick up, and I feel much better about it now. Try not to think that you're ripping off your employer or feel guilty that you're not earning "an honest day's wage". You're doing everything you're supposed to and delivering high quality results. You've done everything you can to alert the decision makers that you're not being fully utilized as a resource. It's their problem now, don't beat yourself up because your bosses make poor decisions. That's a cognitive distortion and will do bad things for your emotional health.

tl;dr: There are healthier emotional thought patterns you can choose besides "I'm a lazy/bad person because my bosses don't give me enough work to do and don't allow me to expand my scope" or "enjoy the ride on the gravy train to Lazytown!"

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

tuyop posted:

Wow, thanks. I don't know what the ombudsman was talking about then. I'm meeting with VAC tomorrow morning as well, I'll bring this up!

Well I have excellent news.

I met with Veteran Affairs (VAC) this morning, and according to the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Re-establishment and Compensation Act, which I haven't read yet, Veteran Affairs provides basically the same benefits as a 3B release* for non-medically released members (so, voluntary releases) as long as your injury was caused by the CF and your injury is representing a barrier to successful transition to civilian life. The VAC case worker told me that I have a pretty good case and that I can probably get a BEd out of this because I have no transferable, job-specific skills. The subtext there being that somehow, if I'd gotten qualified and continued on without an injury I might have gotten transferable skills at some point. It's more risky than the medical release because you have to actually apply for this process, rather than it being an automatic program, but it also means that I can get on with my life this year, rather than the 14-20 months that we're looking at now.

It also turns out that I'm not stuck with my 28 dollar disability award, because a lot of the problems that I'm trying to fix now are probably connected to my injury and shitshow of a career. I started a consequential injury/illness claim. Who knows how that'll go.

* Except the 75% income top-up is not just two years, it's until your transition is complete. So the reeducation is paid for, I'll take home the same amount of pay until I'm reeducated, and the pay continues until I'm in a new job.

Also, if anyone knows about the Strong Interest Inventory, I scored 72 on risktaking, so uh... I guess I don't mind taking this risk.

FrozenVent
May 1, 2009

The Boeing 737-200QC is the undisputed workhorse of the skies.

READ IT. Then read every regulation it refers to, and every document the VAC has ever put out. Use your downtime at work; it'll even look like you're working. Check the definitions of words. Ask other people, ask goons. Canadian legal stuff isn't nearly as opaque as US stuff, so give it a big shot.

Next time you meet with the VAC, you want to know those rules front and back, as well as the guys sitting across from you.

And don't gamble your future on a bunch of maybe, probablies and if. If waiting for a med release makes it an automatic thing, wait for the drat release. Make enough noise that they move your file to the top of the pile so they can get rid of you.

Chronojam
Feb 20, 2006

This is me on vacation in Amsterdam :)
Never be afraid of being yourself!


Tuyop that is all great news but I'll echo this, read the rules and try to understand them so you'll be able to approach this from a stronger position and get the most you can. Also don't count on it until it happens, but it's probably hard to be pessimistic about seeing an increased payout considering your tragic starting point.

Nog
May 15, 2006

tuyop, slow down, think, run the numbers out for a ways into the future, and actually come up with a plan (not just an "idea" or "thought").

Have you actually sat down and seriously considered the following:

1. If you do a voluntary release, how long will it take the VAC benefits to be approved? You've already seen how difficult and slow the medical process can be, and now you're beaming over the idea of receiving VAC benefits in some ideal timeframe.

2. If you do a voluntary release, how will that affect your ability to fully document your medical condition and receive full compensation and medical assistance for it? This medical condition is likely to get worse over your lifetime; you need to take this opportunity to do everything you can possibly do to get yourself squared away with medical benefits and a medical pension. You don't want to be trying to do this while you're juggling a job and crippling pain.

3. Have you run the no-poo poo numbers on how much a voluntary release will actually cost you? I mean not just medical benefits and pension lost, I also mean the additional debt incurred, the loss of income while you're attending school, and the additional interest accrued as a result of inability to meet your debts until you get a job (possibly several months after you finish school). You keep throwing $20k out there as the cost of education, but it sounds much more likely that your total cost is over $200k.

4. You say that you're willing to move anywhere and do anything for better pay, but that's extremely unlikely for several reasons. First, Toeshoes has to complete the remainder of her term of enlistment. Secondly, your medical condition will preclude you from a number of the more physically taxing jobs or ones where Canadian-approved healthcare is unavailable. Maybe there are teaching jobs in Dubai that will pay $100k a year, but will the government still foot the bill for your healthcare over there? If not, how much are you likely to spend in personal healthcare?

5. Plan for the worst, reasonably-likely scenario when you do run the numbers for a voluntary release. What if you have to attend school for an extra semester (for instance, you have to go in for emergency surgery and miss a semester or drop out of your classes)? What if you can't find work for the first 6 months after school? What if you do find work but Toeshoes is being transferred to a new base too soon for you to accept that position and you have to wait until you move to begin working again? None of these are difficult to consider possibilities.

6. I don't know if this is true with the Canadian military, but in the US Army, we have a similar process for medically discharging people. It is long and painful, and it is supposed to be complete in no more than 270 days. In the event that it takes longer than that and superiors/medical staff miss any of their time hacks to move the process along in a timely manner, they are liable for explaining why and subject to a lot of screaming from the top. If one of my Soldiers was actually stuck in the medical discharge process for over a year, I would be getting endless amounts of poo poo over it, and if that Soldier went to the Inspector General's office and filed a complaint, my entire chain of command would get lit up. I imagine the Canadian military has some sort of analogue to the Inspector General, and also has some analogue for maximum processing times. Do your research into this and file a complaint. If this is supposed to have been completed over a year ago, then you need to start looking for means to address this outside of your standard chain of command. They have failed you.



More than anything else, it's apparent that you have tunnel vision. You have become so focused on your immediate problems and the one apparently-easy solution (voluntary release, reeducating yourself, and finding a sweet job) that you're not looking into the long-term problems or even looking for alternate solutions. Its as if you've set this personal ultimatum and now you're just waiting for it to trigger instead of genuinely pursuing other angles.

MagicCube
May 25, 2004

ripped0ff posted:

tuyop, slow down, think, run the numbers out for a ways into the future, and actually come up with a plan (not just an "idea" or "thought").

Have you actually sat down and seriously considered the following:

1. If you do a voluntary release, how long will it take the VAC benefits to be approved? You've already seen how difficult and slow the medical process can be, and now you're beaming over the idea of receiving VAC benefits in some ideal timeframe.

2. If you do a voluntary release, how will that affect your ability to fully document your medical condition and receive full compensation and medical assistance for it? This medical condition is likely to get worse over your lifetime; you need to take this opportunity to do everything you can possibly do to get yourself squared away with medical benefits and a medical pension. You don't want to be trying to do this while you're juggling a job and crippling pain.

3. Have you run the no-poo poo numbers on how much a voluntary release will actually cost you? I mean not just medical benefits and pension lost, I also mean the additional debt incurred, the loss of income while you're attending school, and the additional interest accrued as a result of inability to meet your debts until you get a job (possibly several months after you finish school). You keep throwing $20k out there as the cost of education, but it sounds much more likely that your total cost is over $200k.

4. You say that you're willing to move anywhere and do anything for better pay, but that's extremely unlikely for several reasons. First, Toeshoes has to complete the remainder of her term of enlistment. Secondly, your medical condition will preclude you from a number of the more physically taxing jobs or ones where Canadian-approved healthcare is unavailable. Maybe there are teaching jobs in Dubai that will pay $100k a year, but will the government still foot the bill for your healthcare over there? If not, how much are you likely to spend in personal healthcare?

5. Plan for the worst, reasonably-likely scenario when you do run the numbers for a voluntary release. What if you have to attend school for an extra semester (for instance, you have to go in for emergency surgery and miss a semester or drop out of your classes)? What if you can't find work for the first 6 months after school? What if you do find work but Toeshoes is being transferred to a new base too soon for you to accept that position and you have to wait until you move to begin working again? None of these are difficult to consider possibilities.

6. I don't know if this is true with the Canadian military, but in the US Army, we have a similar process for medically discharging people. It is long and painful, and it is supposed to be complete in no more than 270 days. In the event that it takes longer than that and superiors/medical staff miss any of their time hacks to move the process along in a timely manner, they are liable for explaining why and subject to a lot of screaming from the top. If one of my Soldiers was actually stuck in the medical discharge process for over a year, I would be getting endless amounts of poo poo over it, and if that Soldier went to the Inspector General's office and filed a complaint, my entire chain of command would get lit up. I imagine the Canadian military has some sort of analogue to the Inspector General, and also has some analogue for maximum processing times. Do your research into this and file a complaint. If this is supposed to have been completed over a year ago, then you need to start looking for means to address this outside of your standard chain of command. They have failed you.



More than anything else, it's apparent that you have tunnel vision. You have become so focused on your immediate problems and the one apparently-easy solution (voluntary release, reeducating yourself, and finding a sweet job) that you're not looking into the long-term problems or even looking for alternate solutions. Its as if you've set this personal ultimatum and now you're just waiting for it to trigger instead of genuinely pursuing other angles.

I'd like to answer some of these for Tuyop because I'm quite familiar with the process and a lot of this doesn't get laid out in the first meeting. I'm sure he has some specifics relevant to his case that he can add in. But this is a more general look at the process.

1. After a voluntary release the VAC benefits take roughly 2-4 weeks to be approved. Basically the day after your release date a VAC case manager comes to you house and goes through every single piece of paperwork needed to be filled out for whatever benefits you're eligible for. These are then filed immediately with the Earnings Loss Benefits (income replacement) being given top priority and taking about 2 weeks to start.

2. A voluntary release will not affect his ability to fully document his medical condition and even receive a medical pension on top of the VAC benefits. As long as all documentation is in order and up to date VAC will work with the Canadian Forces to get full medical pensions and all the benefits afforded to those who voluntary release.

3. I can't get into specifics about exactly how much it will cost Tuyop, but during all the things you listed Tuyop will be getting paid 75% of his pre-release salary or $40,000 a year. He will get paid that while going to school. He will get paid that after he finishes program and is searching for a job. He will have a case manager from CanVet help him in finding a job, writing a resume, making himself more appealing, and a better job applicant. From the moment he is approved for these benefits he will be getting paid. Even better, VAC will completely pay for his schooling, books, and any else related to rehabilitating him medically and career-wise.

4. I can't speak to this one since this is a bit more specific, however it is worth adding that once approved for benefits, VAC offers extremely affordable health insurance that can be used until you turn 65. So even once your rehabilitation is complete you can stay on the VAC health coverage.

5. I've already addressed this above, but in the event of all these scenarios he will still be getting paid. The rehabilitation program only ends when your case manager comes to the conclusion that you're fully rehabilitated medically and career-wise. In the event of any unforeseen events, at the very worst Tuyop will still be getting paid and even if he is having trouble finding a job he will still be getting paid.

6. I can't speak to this personally since my process was fairly painless because I had an understanding CoC who helped me along with my process relatively painlessly.

My opinion is that this is Tuyop's best option to releasing from the CF and in doing so will receive the same benefits afforded to full medical releases. Obviously everyone will have different experiences with the process, but so far my experience has been incredible with VAC. I have the nicest person I've ever met as my case manager who has gotten me so much even though its been a lot of work. Hopefully VAC can do the same for Tuyop.

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

ripped0ff posted:

tuyop, slow down, think, run the numbers out for a ways into the future, and actually come up with a plan (not just an "idea" or "thought").

Have you actually sat down and seriously considered the following:

1. If you do a voluntary release, how long will it take the VAC benefits to be approved? You've already seen how difficult and slow the medical process can be, and now you're beaming over the idea of receiving VAC benefits in some ideal timeframe.

2. If you do a voluntary release, how will that affect your ability to fully document your medical condition and receive full compensation and medical assistance for it? This medical condition is likely to get worse over your lifetime; you need to take this opportunity to do everything you can possibly do to get yourself squared away with medical benefits and a medical pension. You don't want to be trying to do this while you're juggling a job and crippling pain.

3. Have you run the no-poo poo numbers on how much a voluntary release will actually cost you? I mean not just medical benefits and pension lost, I also mean the additional debt incurred, the loss of income while you're attending school, and the additional interest accrued as a result of inability to meet your debts until you get a job (possibly several months after you finish school). You keep throwing $20k out there as the cost of education, but it sounds much more likely that your total cost is over $200k.

4. You say that you're willing to move anywhere and do anything for better pay, but that's extremely unlikely for several reasons. First, Toeshoes has to complete the remainder of her term of enlistment. Secondly, your medical condition will preclude you from a number of the more physically taxing jobs or ones where Canadian-approved healthcare is unavailable. Maybe there are teaching jobs in Dubai that will pay $100k a year, but will the government still foot the bill for your healthcare over there? If not, how much are you likely to spend in personal healthcare?

5. Plan for the worst, reasonably-likely scenario when you do run the numbers for a voluntary release. What if you have to attend school for an extra semester (for instance, you have to go in for emergency surgery and miss a semester or drop out of your classes)? What if you can't find work for the first 6 months after school? What if you do find work but Toeshoes is being transferred to a new base too soon for you to accept that position and you have to wait until you move to begin working again? None of these are difficult to consider possibilities.

6. I don't know if this is true with the Canadian military, but in the US Army, we have a similar process for medically discharging people. It is long and painful, and it is supposed to be complete in no more than 270 days. In the event that it takes longer than that and superiors/medical staff miss any of their time hacks to move the process along in a timely manner, they are liable for explaining why and subject to a lot of screaming from the top. If one of my Soldiers was actually stuck in the medical discharge process for over a year, I would be getting endless amounts of poo poo over it, and if that Soldier went to the Inspector General's office and filed a complaint, my entire chain of command would get lit up. I imagine the Canadian military has some sort of analogue to the Inspector General, and also has some analogue for maximum processing times. Do your research into this and file a complaint. If this is supposed to have been completed over a year ago, then you need to start looking for means to address this outside of your standard chain of command. They have failed you.



More than anything else, it's apparent that you have tunnel vision. You have become so focused on your immediate problems and the one apparently-easy solution (voluntary release, reeducating yourself, and finding a sweet job) that you're not looking into the long-term problems or even looking for alternate solutions. Its as if you've set this personal ultimatum and now you're just waiting for it to trigger instead of genuinely pursuing other angles.

Great post, thanks. And MagicCube answered most of it. VAC isn't the medical system, so my experience so far doesn't really relate to how things could go with them.

A lot of this will be answered when I do a release forecast on the 26th. That'll tell me how much I'll actually get on release, since there's a severance package and pension buyout to consider. When I did a little bit of checking in October, it seemed like the amount of those two was around 20k, which will keep me going for a couple of weeks until VAC's benefits kick in. But, I'll know exactly how much it'll be on the 26th.

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

Nether Postlude posted:

Learning will help you be a better teacher. You can't truly develop your own style of teaching until you really see how others do it. And I don't just mean from when you were in high school. So here, take some free courses. They'll help you be a better, more rounded person too:

http://www.openculture.com/freeonlinecourses
https://www.coursera.org/
http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm
http://www.academicearth.org/

Also here's a tumblr just of Nunavut food sticker shock: http://nunavutfoodprice.tumblr.com/ Makes living in NYC look like it's 1950.

edit from that tumblr page:

These links are really cool, but do any of these courses give you certificates or is it just resume fodder? I'm not opposed to resume fodder, I've just been looking through them and it looks more like they're free auditing sort of "courses". iTunes U kind of stuff.

Also, I had to cancel my appointment because I'm giving a briefing, but I found out that the base surgeon expedited my file. They're saying that it'll be about four months until we hear back from Ottawa now. So, I guess I don't have to pull the trigger on anything for a little while. In the meantime I'm taking a Teaching and Training Adults course at the local college in April. 877 dollar course for free once they pay me back!

miryei
Oct 11, 2011
The edX courses here are run by MIT and Harvard and give certificates. It's actual online courses versus just giving you access to the course materials like in the other MIT link above. However, they don't give the same kind of certificate as if you were attending the university in question and took the course, and I'm unsure how widely accepted the edX certificates are by other universities, as it's a relatively new thing.

CuddleChunks
Sep 18, 2004

tuyop posted:

In the meantime I'm taking a Teaching and Training Adults course at the local college in April. 877 dollar course for free once they pay me back!
Congrats on getting more stuff moving with your disability. Am I reading the above sentence correctly in inferring that you have laid out $877 for the course and will get reimbursed in the future?

BlueBayou
Jan 16, 2008
Before she mends must sicken worse

miryei posted:

The edX courses here are run by MIT and Harvard and give certificates. It's actual online courses versus just giving you access to the course materials like in the other MIT link above. However, they don't give the same kind of certificate as if you were attending the university in question and took the course, and I'm unsure how widely accepted the edX certificates are by other universities, as it's a relatively new thing.

Having TA'd one of those classes (and likely doing another one soon), i can highly recommend them. EdX is so awesome.

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

CuddleChunks posted:

Congrats on getting more stuff moving with your disability. Am I reading the above sentence correctly in inferring that you have laid out $877 for the course and will get reimbursed in the future?

Yes I just paid 877 (with a credit card for the pointzzz), I'll give them the receipt and they'll cut me a cheque. This is how education payments have always been done for me (I've received like 20k in reimbursements this way). The only problem is that I may have clicked the wrong link during registration since I probably have the Teaching and Training Adults qualification equivalency from training. I really wouldn't mind doing the whole course again though, it's not like registering the equivalency will save me money or anything, just a couple of Saturdays.

miryei posted:

The edX courses here are run by MIT and Harvard and give certificates. It's actual online courses versus just giving you access to the course materials like in the other MIT link above. However, they don't give the same kind of certificate as if you were attending the university in question and took the course, and I'm unsure how widely accepted the edX certificates are by other universities, as it's a relatively new thing.

Ok that looks awesome! I registered for Human Health and Environmental Change. I think any little bit will help, since my resume is pretty limited at this point.

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe
/\/\ Actually, it's after I pass the course. So I'm out 877 until the beginning of May, at which point I'll be reimbursed 100%. I mixed up the reimbursement types.

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe
My reading has cycled back around to nonfiction -> personal finance, so I'm reading Ramit Sethi's I Will Teach You To Be Rich.

He seems to think that I should have a retirement account opened and that I should be contributing some pittance to it each month.

I quickly looked at the long term investing thread and didn't see any info for Canadians in the OP. I'm assuming that I want an online bank's RRSP Index Fund, if that's even a thing.

Achieva seems to be top notch WRT interest rates but it looks like it's seriously limited to 3%, unless it's an RRSP Savings Account which is not what I want...

TD has "Mutual Fund RSP" and "Self-Directed RSP" accounts. Is that what I'm looking for?

Or would it be better just to go with a straight up mutual fund or tax free mutual fund account from ING? http://ingdirect.ca/en/mutualfunds/learningcentre/tfmf/index.html http://ingdirect.ca/en/mutualfunds/indexinvesting/index.html

Fraternite
Dec 24, 2001

by Y Kant Ozma Post
A RRSP isn't a type of account per se, tuyop -- it's a tax classification. You can have normal bank accounts designated RRSP, or stuff like GICs, or stuff like ETFs and mutual funds, or even accounts that hold things like individual common stocks. Your appropriate asset mix all depends on what sort of other retirement income you'll have, your time horizon, and your stomach for risk -- among other things. This is independent of the tax classification.

The chief way RRSPs work is that you defer tax until retirement, i.e. if you made $50k last year and put $5k into your RRSP, your taxable income is only $45k. You'll pay income tax on everything you withdraw at retirement, so the general principle is that you only put stuff into RRSPs if your tax bracket then is likely to be lower than your tax bracket now.

A TFSA is the same thing, incidentally. It's a tax classification. But instead of contributing to it with pre-tax dollars like a RRSP, you put post-tax dollars in. The corollary of this is that you can withdraw your gains tax free, because you already paid on the money going in. This is generally better for lower-income folks, because they don't derive the same benefit of tax deferral that a higher income person does.

Whether a TFSA or RRSP is more appropriate for you depends on 1) your income now, 2) your projected retirement income, and maybe 3) benefits of certain asset classes in certain accounts (i.e. you won't pay US withholding tax on American dividends in your RRSP, but you will in your TFSA so it's better to hold that sort of stuff in a RRSP). But yeah, a TFSA almost always beats a non-registered account -- so if you're going to save it's almost always better to do it in a TFSA than a normal account.


Edit: Do you know what a "mutual fund" is? Or an ETF? Or a "money market fund"? Or what "self-directed" means? Or what a "dividend" is? I have no idea what level of sophistication you have with this sort of stuff, so getting answers to basic stuff like that is probably a good starting place for us if you want advice.

Fraternite fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Feb 22, 2013

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe
I should rephrase. I know that an RRSP isn't actually an account, but right now I don't have any accounts classified as RRSPs and this book says I should start one or something like it. I'm wondering what company to go with and what account to get, if any.

Fraternite posted:

Edit: Do you know what a "mutual fund" is? Or an ETF? Or a "money market fund"? Or what "self-directed" means? Or what a "dividend" is? I have no idea what level of sophistication you have with this sort of stuff, so getting answers to basic stuff like that is probably a good starting place for us if you want advice.

Yes, I guess I'll just define those terms off the top of my head to give you an idea:

Mutual Fund: a collection of stocks and bonds that is managed by a company to try to produce money.
ETF: I don't know this one. (wikipedia says Exchange-traded fund, but I don't really know what the difference is between these and other stuff is because I don't understand most of the wikipedia article)
Money Market Fund: A mutual fund that consists of more bonds and stuff and is mostly secure. Like a step up from a savings account.
Self-Directed: Managed by you rather than a manager. I imagine you can use a self-directed account to buy normal mutual funds as well as passively managed index funds and stuff though, so I don't really get it.
Dividend: A percentage of an investment paid by a company to its shareholders. Corporations can distribute profits as dividends sometimes.

Fraternite
Dec 24, 2001

by Y Kant Ozma Post

tuyop posted:

Yes, I guess I'll just define those terms off the top of my head to give you an idea:

Mutual Fund: a collection of stocks and bonds that is managed by a company to try to produce money.
ETF: I don't know this one. (wikipedia says Exchange-traded fund, but I don't really know what the difference is between these and other stuff is because I don't understand most of the wikipedia article)
Money Market Fund: A mutual fund that consists of more bonds and stuff and is mostly secure. Like a step up from a savings account.
Self-Directed: Managed by you rather than a manager. I imagine you can use a self-directed account to buy normal mutual funds as well as passively managed index funds and stuff though, so I don't really get it.
Dividend: A percentage of an investment paid by a company to its shareholders. Corporations can distribute profits as dividends sometimes.

Okay, not bad. You know more than most people already.

quote:

I should rephrase. I know that an RRSP isn't actually an account, but right now I don't have any accounts classified as RRSPs and this book says I should start one or something like it. I'm wondering what company to go with and what account to get, if any.

What's your risk tolerance? What's your time horizon? Do you have any debt yet to pay off? Will you need this money for a down payment some day? What tax bracket are you going to be in for the next 5 years? And after that? What about retirement? What are your return goals? Do you want to beat the market and risk underperforming the market, or are you happy tracking the market? What about your spouse? Are you likely to inherit anything?

These are the sorts of questions a fee-only advisor should ask you. This sort of stuff can get complicated, so head off to the longterm savings thread and read up. But really, you should try to find a fee-only advisor after familiarising yourself with the basics unless you really like to manage money. I'd give you advice, but people here love to track the market and I have no intention of getting drowned out by people who think buying individual stocks is always for suckers. But knowing you and your spreadsheets, maybe this is a good hobby for you...

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

Fraternite posted:

Okay, not bad. You know more than most people already.


What's your risk tolerance? What's your time horizon? Do you have any debt yet to pay off? Will you need this money for a down payment some day? What tax bracket are you going to be in for the next 5 years? And after that? What about retirement? What are your return goals? Do you want to beat the market and risk underperforming the market, or are you happy tracking the market? What about your spouse? Are you likely to inherit anything?

I think your questions are rhetorical and the point is that this thread is totally not the right place to be asking about savings, but:

What's your risk tolerance?
I'd say that my risk tolerance is high. I have decades of life to mitigate risk.

What's your time horizon?
Not counting debt repayment, which consumes close to $3000 per month for the next 13 months or so (here's a sneak peak into the Feb update). The three large savings goals we've developed are:
1. Wedding (6 Months) $2000 of which we have ~1200.
2. 25% Downpayment (5.5 years) $35 000 - $50 000.
3. Financial Independence (10+ years) $450 000 - $600 000.

Do you have any debt yet to pay off?
Yes, around 40k including car payment.

Will you need this money for a down payment some day?
Yes.

What tax bracket are you going to be in for the next 5 years?
Not sure, but let's assume that our family income will be around $100k gross for the next five years. We would pay anywhere from 36% to 44% taxes based on this calculator.

And after that?
I don't think our incomes are likely to go much higher than $130k combined unless we start a business or I write a book or something.

Other than that, I don't have any rich uncles waiting to die (but I think toeshoes does...), I'd rather just track the market and minimize fees, toeshoes and I share these goals.

One of us is likely to have a pension depending on how things go, but I'm reluctant to count on that.

What's a return goal?

big shtick energy
May 27, 2004


Off the top of my head, the best index mutual funds available in canada are the TD eFunds, which have MERs of around 0.5%. ING and BMO both have some index funds available with MERs around 1%, and that's about as good as it gets in Canada. If you had a large amount you could always go with a brokerage and buy index ETFs, but for a small account index mutual funds are probably your best bet.

You can do the math yourself, but generally using your TFSA room is better than using your RRSP room unless you have a relatively high income, and the flexibility of a TFSA will also come in handy when your financial goals swing on a dime because you read an article about solar panels or affiliate marketing or log cabin construction or some poo poo like that. I'm not sure why you're adding your incomes together for calculating taxes, though; I've never been married so I haven't looked into it, but I don't think it works that way in Canada.

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe
I had a phone interview with Jesse Mecham, the creator of YNAB. I told him about finding out about YNAB through SA, so he gave me a bunch of t-shirts for goons. I already PM'd a few people, especially ones who mentioned YNAB in the GBS thread, but here are the rest.

1. https://get.printfection.com/ynab-gift/g2716/zwpjzdbpdx

2. https://get.printfection.com/ynab-gift/g2716/bcmbczdqrb

3. https://get.printfection.com/ynab-gift/g2716/myhprnbydf

He also gave me 50 bucks in amazon moneys but I'm spending that on books about composting my own feces so nyah.

lament.cfg
Dec 28, 2006

we have such posts
to show you




tuyop posted:

I had a phone interview with Jesse Mecham, the creator of YNAB. I told him about finding out about YNAB through SA, so he gave me a bunch of t-shirts for goons. I already PM'd a few people, especially ones who mentioned YNAB in the GBS thread, but here are the rest.


He also gave me 50 bucks in amazon moneys but I'm spending that on books about composting my own feces so nyah.

"interview"?

Also, I claimed the 3rd one, thank you! (I'm a paying YNAB lover, feel free to PM me also if you have any questions about it).

moana
Jun 18, 2005

one of the more intellectual satire communities on the web
Hell yeah, just picked out my free shirt. Thanks tuyop!

tuyop
Sep 15, 2006

Every second that we're not growing BASIL is a second wasted

Fun Shoe

Me in Reverse posted:

"interview"?

Also, I claimed the 3rd one, thank you! (I'm a paying YNAB lover, feel free to PM me also if you have any questions about it).

Yeah there was a facebook post offering swag in return for a marketing/research phone interview with Jesse himself. It was cool talking to him (he has 5 kids!), and he just asked about how toeshoes and I were using it to combine finances and what our goals were and stuff. It was a thirty minute conversation, really.

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Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

tuyop posted:

He also gave me 50 bucks in amazon moneys but I'm spending that on books about composting my own feces so nyah.

You're going to die of dysentery.

Not really. Really you're never going to do this because it turns out that dealing with human poo poo on a daily basis is a disgusting job that people get paid a pretty decent wage to do so that you don't have to, and in terms of making good fertilizer, dung from herbivores is good and dung from omnivores is terrible, which is why people don't fertilize their crops with pig manure even though we've got plenty of that nasty stuff to go around.

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