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RentCavalier posted:It kind of looked like the areas are effectively linear, but within the individual stages along the path, you can branch off and explore for bonus poo poo. Brad Shoemaker basically described it as this, with some small metroid-esque aspects and a fast travel mechanic that allows you to go back to previous areas and use the newly unlocked traversal abilities to get previously unreachable collectibles. For the most part, the game is linear, though.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:23
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Douche Wolf 89 posted:I refused to buy Dead Island because of a single coder being a misogynistic rear end in a top hat and even I'm finding this thread insufferable. I think it's pretty cool that we can have these kinds of discussions, actually. I think
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Feb 27, 2013 19:24
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Chillmatic posted:I hear what you're saying, and for what it's worth I agree. I don't know if any of y'all played far cry 3 but literally the exact same thing happens. You kill a dude, and you're all like "oh gently caress, oh poo poo oh poo poo i don't think i can do this" and then 15 minutes later you're hangliding across the island dropping c4 on dudes that managed to survive the headshots and tiger attack you'd unleashed on them 10 minutes prior. Like I've said, I'm not particularly sold on the premise, nor do I think it's necessarily justified, but I do think it's interesting and hearing that it's effectively been half-assed is fairly dissapointing. Hopefully the game plays with that more, but the pre-release footage and initial impressions don't seem to indicate so. Yeah, it's a shame.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:26
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Chillmatic posted:I hear what you're saying, and for what it's worth I agree. I don't know if any of y'all played far cry 3 but literally the exact same thing happens. You kill a dude, and you're all like "oh gently caress, oh poo poo oh poo poo i don't think i can do this" and then 15 minutes later you're hangliding across the island dropping c4 on dudes that managed to survive the headshots and tiger attack you'd unleashed on them 10 minutes prior.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:28
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Far Cry 3's a fairly different beast. The protagonist in that comes to enjoy killing, not desensitized to it or accustomed.Samurai Sanders posted:His reactions in the game still don't match though, he still says "ugh barf" after the 2637th wild animal he skins. That was actually one of the few bits of Far Cry 3's writing I liked. He's happily enjoying and laughing through murdering scores of people, but he's still grossed out of skinning an animal out of necessity. It's funny.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:30
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Samurai Sanders posted:Far Cry 3 was somewhat better in this regard (from one perspective anyway) since your character is the chosen one and has literal magic jungle powers, so it makes sense that he becomes a killing machine quickly. His reactions in the game still don't match though, he still says "ugh barf" after the 2637th wild animal he skins. Well, to be fair, the intent of the FC3 writer was also for that disconnect to be there and to make fun of that sort of stuff in games. The writer just... wasn't very good at it. At all.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:32
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Still, the worst one for me is definitely Uncharted, Drake can't be both a scrappy, fun-loving guy and also capable of killing ten enemies at once over and over again. The needs of the gameplay and the needs of the story don't match up at all, one should have been changed to match the other I think.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:34
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I think the problem with Uncharted isn't that Drake kills a lot of people, it's that Drake kills a lot of people at once in ways that are pretty unbecoming, and tonally distant from, the archetype he belongs to. You rarely see Indiana Jones sneaking up on a guy and breaking his neck, for example. It's hard to sell plucky wise-rear end when you also have to explain away the fact that technically, he's a murderer.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:37
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^True, but I think the sheer volume and callousness plays into it as well. You reward the gamer through trophies and experience for headshots, 'brutal kills,' et cetera, but then you craft this well done story and expect us not to feel a weird disconnect there?^Samurai Sanders posted:Still, the worst one for me is definitely Uncharted, Drake can't be both a scrappy, fun-loving guy and also capable of killing ten enemies at once over and over again. The needs of the gameplay and the needs of the story don't match up at all, one should have been changed to match the other I think. I said this last page, but Uncharted would have been a far more interesting game if there was a lot less combat and a more heavy focus on exploration/puzzle solving. And based on the review footage from this game, I imagine I'll feel the same about it.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:37
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DrNutt posted:I think it's pretty cool that we can have these kinds of discussions, actually. I think I think a lot of this - not all - has to do with the games press and certain segments of the community lacking the ability to make critical analysis/offer forth an opinion without resorting to snarky, combative shots. Dan Didio posted:Like I've said, I'm not particularly sold on the premise, nor do I think it's necessarily justified, but I do think it's interesting and hearing that it's effectively been half-assed is fairly dissapointing. Hopefully the game plays with that more, but the pre-release footage and initial impressions don't seem to indicate so. Yeah, it's a shame. The type of game you seem to want, a third person narrative based AAA level game that is all puzzles and almost no combat (to remain consistent with a "reluctant killer" vibe), stands no chance of recouping the ridiculous amount of money that was likely poured into this thing. It would have been very easy to have gone straight action the entire way through. What you dismiss as "half assed" is actually a pretty sensible attempt to preserve the legacy of the franchise (puzzles) while also, you know, actually selling enough copies to be worth the trouble. I also think the pacing would be less interesting, and not as fun, without palette cleanser firefights. But to each his own. bloodysabbath fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 19:38
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DrNutt posted:I said this last page, but Uncharted would have been a far more interesting game if there was a lot less combat and a more heavy focus on exploration/puzzle solving. And based on the review footage from this game, I imagine I'll feel the same about it.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:39
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bloodysabbath posted:The type of game you seem to want, a third person narrative based AAA level game that is all puzzles and almost no combat (to remain consistent with a "reluctant killer" vibe), stands no chance of recouping the ridiculous amount of money that was likely poured into this thing. It would have been very easy to have gone straight action the entire way through. What you dismiss as "half assed" is actually a pretty sensible attempt to preserve the legacy of the franchise (puzzles) while also, you know, actually selling enough copies to be worth the trouble. I did not at all say that I wanted all puzzles and no combat, so please don't words in my mouth. What I want is for the gameplay to reflect the story that's being told. I'm fine with Lara Croft killing a lot of people, in fact, I'm not much for puzzle games. I'd vastly prefer a story about Lara Croft fighting off a cult or pirates or whatever and trying to stay alive to one focused around archealogical pursuits. What I want is for the gameplay to progress and grow as the story does and reflect the fact that Lara is not a trained killer at the start of the game and shouldn't be acquiring these skills so easily. There is a difference between the gameplay reflecting her being a reluctant killer and having next to no killing at all. What the gameplay is doesn't seem to reflect the tone of the story or what Lara Croft is at various points in the story at all, that's a shame. If the impressions and reviews are true, and I have no reason to believe they aren't, then it absolutely is half-assed. You can't tell a story about someone becoming a killer out of necessity and introduce the mechanics that allow them to kill in a binary fashion. She should become more accustomed to it. I also think the score and XP popups are similarly dissonant. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 19:40
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Chillmatic posted:No, only like an hour or so, if even that. Replying because you thought it would be cool to insinuate this stuff twice, I'm very probably a bit older than the median on this forum and yes, I view her as a little girl. It's pretty telling that you assume right away everyone is viewing her like that because yadda yadda
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Feb 27, 2013 19:40
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To be honest if it hits Arkham City balance between combat and exploration I think that'd be pretty great.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:41
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Samurai Sanders posted:edit: the Steam version is cheaper, but I never know how well PC games will run on my laptop. I wish it had a demo or benchmark or something. Also, the Steam page doesn't claim it has controller support but surely it does? Sorry for the late response but, yes, the PC version will be Steamworks-integrated (achievements, cloud saves, etc). I read somewhere that the game will also automatically detect whether you're using a controller or the keyboard.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:43
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ImpAtom posted:To be honest if it hits Arkham City balance between combat and exploration I think that'd be pretty great. I thought Arkham City was dissapointing in more than a few regards, but I really enjoyed the balance and pacing of the combat vs. not combat. On a related note, I loved the melee combat as much as everyone did in the Arkham games, so if the same stuff in this is as kinetic and has that level of 'meaning' to each action, I think it would be really fantastic.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:44
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You know how in a FPS when you're looking down a scope and you start shaking like you have Parkinson's? How about you do poo poo like that whenever you aim a weapon at a human at all, but only when you're pointing it at humans. And then slowly throughout the game your aim gets more and more steady as the character gets used to shooting at people. In set moments of the game like if poo poo is exploding around you, have your aim unfucked with and write it off as adrenaline so set pieces aren't too wallbanging hard. It's artificial but at the same time you're meant to be playing a character that's not used to doing these things, they're not a pro gamer with a 10+ KDR.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:51
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miguelito posted:Replying because you thought it would be cool to insinuate this stuff twice, I'm very probably a bit older than the median on this forum and yes, I view her as a little girl. Well that just makes you a creepy rear end old guy! V  V A 19 year old woman is still an adult woman making her own choices regardless of how old you happen to get. Samurai Sanders posted:Still, the worst one for me is definitely Uncharted, Drake can't be both a scrappy, fun-loving guy and also capable of killing ten enemies at once over and over again. The needs of the gameplay and the needs of the story don't match up at all, one should have been changed to match the other I think. This is one of the main reasons (as long as we're talking unrelated franchises) that I loved Max Payne 3, even for all its faults. Max is a hosed up guy because he's spent the last decade doing hosed up things, and you can't really walk away from that unscathed and wisecracking. Dan Didio posted:Far Cry 3's a fairly different beast. The protagonist in that comes to enjoy killing, not desensitized to it or accustomed. That's a fair point. I haven't played tomb raider yet obviously but i've heard a lot of reviewers saying that towards the latter parts of the game, Lara is yelling "I'm coming to get you you bastards" etc and so on, so maybe it has a similar arc.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:51
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Chillmatic posted:That's a fair point. I haven't played tomb raider yet obviously but i've heard a lot of reviewers saying that towards the latter parts of the game, Lara is yelling "I'm coming to get you you bastards" etc and so on, so maybe it has a similar arc. Given that from what I've heard she takes the role of protector of the group of shipwreck survivors, I can kind of see where the game's headed and I'm sure there's bits towards the end where she is actively taking the fight to the antagonists for what I would imagine are reasons people can figure out from the synopsis, but I doubt she'll become a cartoonish sadist like Jason Brody in Far Cry 3.
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Feb 27, 2013 19:54
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miguelito posted:Replying because you thought it would be cool to insinuate this stuff twice, I'm very probably a bit older than the median on this forum and yes, I view her as a little girl. There's a considerable difference between a "little girl" and a "young woman". Would you consider a 19 year old male protagonist a "little boy"?
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Feb 27, 2013 20:04
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Dan Didio posted:I think the problem with Uncharted isn't that Drake kills a lot of people, it's that Drake kills a lot of people at once in ways that are pretty unbecoming, and tonally distant from, the archetype he belongs to. This is sort of brought up in one part of Uncharted 2 when he and Elena are trying to sneak through an area undetected. If you manage to stealth takedown everyone, Drake goes something along the lines of "Hah, pretty impressive, huh?" and Elena responds with "...I would go with disturbing." Drake's a good guy, but he's pretty messed up. Wish they did more to expand on that, since it does look like the developers are aware of the disconnect.
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Feb 27, 2013 20:06
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As squicked out as the neck impalement made me, the only thing I'm really concerned about with the Tomb Raider reboot is if the gameplay, platforming and exploration are all comparable to Tomb Raider: Underworld. To me, Underworld was the absolute best game in the series, hands-down, and I've played at least part of every main Tomb Raider game since the first. If they throw out everything that made the other games enjoyable in favor of run-and-gun Uncharted gameplay with torture porn quicktimes then no, I'm not buying or playing this one, even on a Steam sale.
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Feb 27, 2013 20:06
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I rather liked the old teflon Lara, just because she was a fairly rare beast in computer games. I also don't have a huge problem with there being excessively gory deaths, so long as they serve a purpose beyond mere voyeurism. If the intent is to make you feel panicked and desperate to avoid Lara dying because the deaths are so distressing, and it works, then I am ok with that. Shock and distressing images can serve a purpose beyond merely the emotions they evoke if they are placed in proper context. Of course it is possible the game will fail at this, but we shall see.
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Feb 27, 2013 20:06
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I can't wait to axe people in the face. Let me AXE you a question!
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Feb 27, 2013 20:24
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PunkBoy posted:This is sort of brought up in one part of Uncharted 2 when he and Elena are trying to sneak through an area undetected. If you manage to stealth takedown everyone, Drake goes something along the lines of "Hah, pretty impressive, huh?" and Elena responds with "...I would go with disturbing." Drake's a good guy, but he's pretty messed up. Wish they did more to expand on that, since it does look like the developers are aware of the disconnect. I liked when they acknowledged it, and thought they managed to walk the line between action hero and kind of off-putting really well, but I did think giving the whole 'hey, you're a killer too' to an actual war-criminal/genocidal maniac was a really lazy way of dismissing the issue.
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Feb 27, 2013 20:26
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As I've read more and more discussion on games like Uncharted, Grand Thefto Auto, and this, I'm not sure what it says about me that I don't really connect the story beats with gameplay actions. A grotesque death like this stuff with Lara in the river would give me pause if it were part of the story but as a game over screen, all I see myself thinking is "hurry up and reload".
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Feb 27, 2013 20:43
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biznatchio posted:There's a considerable difference between a "little girl" and a "young woman". I mean they basically just made Arkham Croft, Asylum Raider. Why not steal most of the origin story?
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Feb 27, 2013 20:45
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coyo7e posted:Being 34, yeah I'd consider any 19 year old to still effectively be a child - especially in today's "helicopter parent" society.. Especially when they are still in college and barely have much in the way of responsibility handed to them.
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Feb 27, 2013 20:52
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Dan Didio posted:I think the problem with Uncharted isn't that Drake kills a lot of people, it's that Drake kills a lot of people at once in ways that are pretty unbecoming, and tonally distant from, the archetype he belongs to. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOKfQK7fs0c&t=1m13s Indy kills a ton of people, alot of it is cartoonish, but there is some pretty intense and brutal stuff too.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:01
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This is why most games don't have a female lead: insufferable nerds complaining about misogyny, sexism, etc. Get a life. Onto a different topic: has anyone else that pre-ordered do the Scavenger Hunt? The challenges were pretty easy with multiple choice questions, the fun added part were the photo challenges. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 27, 2013 21:06
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Dan Didio posted:I liked when they acknowledged it, and thought they managed to walk the line between action hero and kind of off-putting really well, but I did think giving the whole 'hey, you're a killer too' to an actual war-criminal/genocidal maniac was a really lazy way of dismissing the issue. No disagreement there. Anyway, back to the topic! I was also put off by the advertising, so I'm still behind on released info. Is there any point in this game where Lara gets her signature dual pistols? Or are they referenced at all?
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Feb 27, 2013 21:09
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am0kgonzo posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOKfQK7fs0c&t=1m13s I'm aware. Hence why I noted that the frequency of the kills isn't the problem and cushioned my reasoning with 'rarely' in the case of the manner of Indiana's kills. A lot of the stuff is very, very cartoonish, as well, as you noted. Throwing a skewer into a guy is pretty funny, sneaking up and breaking someone's neck, or blowing up a guy with a grenade or beating them to death with your bare hands, generally aren't. Like I said, the Uncharted games manage to straddle the line about as well as the Indiana Jones movies do, but the inherently darker, more mature tone that saturates them makes a lot of what Drake does more objectionable. EDIT: Objectionable is a bit strong, just darker. ZeeBoi posted:This is why most games don't have a female lead: insufferable nerds complaining about misogyny, sexism, etc. Hahaha, this is a really dumb thing to say.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:10
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ZeeBoi posted:This is why most games don't have a female lead: insufferable nerds complaining about misogyny, sexism, etc. Cool, thanks for contributing to this discussion with your thoughtful insight. It certainly can't be that publishers are concerned that their games won't sell if they don't have a white male protaganist, it's the fault of whiny nerds! You are a loving moron.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:11
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This game is so fun to play. I can't wait to get my hands on a copy. Some of you may remember that my brother, Jason Graves, wrote all the music in the Dead Space franchise (though they brought in another guy to do a little music on Dead Space 3. No comment). Now he's the sole composer for Tomb Raider, which he'd been working one since 2010 or so, maybe early 2011. I got to see early gameplay and cinematics from the game around mid 2011 and it's been astonishing how far they've come. It's such a beautiful game, as all of you can obviously see, and from what little I've played I can tell you the controls are very tight and the world and gameplay are very immersive. All that being said, I'm extremely proud of the work Jason has done on the music. He's a big believer in strong, well-used themes in scores, so he started with the theme and worked from there. If you liked his use of themes in the Dead Space series, you'll REALLY like them here, mostly because Jason was able to move more towards the classical stuff that made him love music in the first place. If you want to hear the music early, you can stream the entire soundtrack on AOL Music right now for free: http://music.aol.com/new-releases-full-cds/#/3 Take a listen and let me know what you think! He loves to hear feedback from real people, so give me your thoughts and I'll pass them along to him. Or, you can tell him yourself through his Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Jason-Graves-Music/55352032665 Go give him some love goons! Rick Sanchez fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Feb 27, 2013 |
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Feb 27, 2013 21:14
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No, the loving morons are in this thread getting their panties in a twist over death scenes just because the character is a young woman. It's okay to play murder simulators but heaven forbid if it's not a space marine white guy. Then it HAS to be misogynist, sexist, racist or whatever else.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:15
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Paul Allen posted:If you want to hear the music early, you can stream the entire soundtrack on AOL Music right now for free: http://music.aol.com/new-releases-full-cds/#/3 Is the page not loading fully for me or am I blind, I can't see where I can play the music.  Edit: looks like the flash player isn't loading properly for me right now. :/
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Feb 27, 2013 21:17
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Right, it's clearly a discussion based around interpreted misogyny, sexism, "or whatever else" when the last page has been a comparison with the similar story/gameplay disconnect you get in Uncharted. You really pegged that one.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:17
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ZeeBoi posted:No, the loving morons are in this thread getting their panties in a twist over death scenes just because the character is a young woman. It's okay to play murder simulators but heaven forbid if it's not a space marine white guy. Then it HAS to be misogynist, sexist, racist or whatever else. Yes, because when people discuss about violence in other games, people all stop and go "Huh, you raise a valid point about our view of violence in media". Certainly nobody responds with the usual "If you don't like it, don't play the game" canard and dismisses the point. Obviously the reason is sexism.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:18
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ZeeBoi posted:No, the loving morons are in this thread getting their panties in a twist over death scenes just because the character is a young woman. It's okay to play murder simulators but heaven forbid if it's not a space marine white guy. Then it HAS to be misogynist, sexist, racist or whatever else. Who has said these things?
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Feb 27, 2013 21:18
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I feel the death scenes are gratuitous and incongruous with the genre and would feel that way if Lara was a college age guy as well. I really wish there were a way to turn them off a la Call of Duty: Black Ops 2. Also lol: You guys 'getting your panties in a twist' are the actual misogynists.
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Feb 27, 2013 21:20
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