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Got a call and a letter from the lodge secretary today, my EA is set for March 6th. We'll see how this goes, I've already been given a challenge by the investigation committee to not take any of the "shortcuts" that are allowed in Ohio. So I'm going to try and do it as traditionally as possible, even though that may take a bit longer.
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Mar 1, 2013 13:15
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qraham posted:But if I'm being completely honest, the thing that is most intriguing is the idea that being a mason might help my career in some way; I've heard stories of people getting jobs or promotions because they did the right handshake with the right person. Can you guys speak to this at all? Good luck with that. Being a Mason has never helped me get a job.
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Mar 1, 2013 13:23
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qraham posted:But if I'm being completely honest, the thing that is most intriguing is the idea that being a mason might help my career in some way; I've heard stories of people getting jobs or promotions because they did the right handshake with the right person. Can you guys speak to this at all? I've always been told that getting ahead in life consists of the right people getting the opportunity to see your skillset, putting the "who you know" on equal footing as "what you know." In that regard, I am sure there are stories of people in almost every organization who have gotten ahead in life because another member put them in touch with someone who could use their services/skills. I know people who have gotten out of speeding tickets because they had a 4H sticker on their car, or had seen the officer at a community parade. I've been a member of our Lodge for more than half a decade and I can honestly say I don't know what half of our members do for a living -- we don't talk business; we discuss our families, the community, many of the letters or visitors that come to our Lodge, and maybe the groups who have asked to use our building. Sports teams, BBQs, so on and so forth. Most of my brothers know I work in technology or computers, but I've neither expected to get help or connections to clients nor use my position in the Lodge to leverage some commercial gain. Lodge is actually a place I go to that allows me to get away from the stresses of work. lone77wulf -- congratulations! It should be a great experience and I look forward to hearing how it went
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Mar 1, 2013 13:28
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qraham posted:But if I'm being completely honest, the thing that is most intriguing is the idea that being a mason might help my career in some way; I've heard stories of people getting jobs or promotions because they did the right handshake with the right person. Can you guys speak to this at all? Allow me to post a counter-story; my First-Line Signer was raised as a Master Mason and decided to wear his ring to work one day to see if anyone else in the building were Masons, since he saw a car out in the parking lot with the square-and-compasses on it. His boss, who he had previously gotten along OK with, saw the ring, flipped out and refused to speak to him any more, and a week later terminated his employment for "conduct reasons and insubordination." He now works doing deliveries for a pizza joint, having run out of unemployment, while he waits for his disability benefits checks to start processing.
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Mar 1, 2013 15:53
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qraham posted:
Career advancement and personal gain are unlikely if they are the reason you join. However I've seen great things done for fellow brothers and handshake agreements for commercial real estate go down because of brotherhood. What I mean by that is the men that join lodge to benefit themselves financially rarely do. They lose interest quickly and leave because they thought they joined a networking group. It's not what we do. We are here to make us and our brothers better men. Business networking happens, just like it would in any social club but it is not what we are here for and those that believe we are don't often stick around.
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Mar 1, 2013 16:43
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qraham posted:But if I'm being completely honest, the thing that is most intriguing is the idea that being a mason might help my career in some way; I've heard stories of people getting jobs or promotions because they did the right handshake with the right person. Can you guys speak to this at all? Your candor is appreciated, but I'd recommend that you don't join if this is your primary motivating factor. Career advancement is the reason a lot of people join different organizations, including Masonry, and is a fine and appropriate reason to join a professional organization, but a terrible reason to become a Mason. If an applicant brought this up during the investigation and interview process as honestly and directly as you have, I'd ask them to seriously reconsider their motives in joining. I'd also consider voting against their application. This isn't to say that I'd necessarily vote against them if they understood that the fraternity isn't a professional organization and still wanted to join regardless. In the jurisdictions where I've been involved part of the job of the investigating committee is answering questions like this. In both however the petitioner is at different times told that they should not expect material benefit from joining the organization and directly asked to declare that they aren't joining for mercenary motives. From a certain point of view this probably sounds naive. Of course there have been and are Lodges and Masons that form important segments of different good old boy networks, and being a Mason probably has materially benefited some. My own feeling and opinion is that such favoritism abuses the fraternal tie and violates the spirit of our promises to act fairly in our dealings with all people.
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Mar 1, 2013 17:04
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qraham posted:I've always been curious about the freemasons; my great-grandfather was a mason in England during the great depression, and my grandmother always said that they basically survived off the charity of his... brothers? In a certain sense I'd be interested in investigating my local lodge if only to reignite that tradition in my family. Freemasonry is not a charity nor is it a networking group, and that wouldn't be a good idea.
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Mar 1, 2013 17:30
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qraham posted:I've always been curious about the freemasons; my great-grandfather was a mason in England during the great depression, and my grandmother always said that they basically survived off the charity of his... brothers? In a certain sense I'd be interested in investigating my local lodge if only to reignite that tradition in my family. I'll echo what others said, networking and job seeking isn't the point of Masons. I've seen a brother or two find a job through a brother, but only in the same way someone in a group of friends might know of a job vacancy. Simply, there's no secret masonic job network. Curiosity isn't a good reason to seek admission. Joining the great men that helped your grandfather and your family, and continuing the works of charity so that maybe someday you might help someone in a similar manner.. That's a good reason. Search your soul.
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Mar 1, 2013 19:13
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qraham posted:I've always been curious about the freemasons; my great-grandfather was a mason in England during the great depression, and my grandmother always said that they basically survived off the charity of his... brothers? In a certain sense I'd be interested in investigating my local lodge if only to reignite that tradition in my family. Tradition is a fine reason to seek out Freemasonry, but be sure you pursuit the tradition because you feel comfortable with it. Today I talked to a guy who would make a fine Mason but he told be his brother (from the same mother) once was a member and he left. Good thing about that was that the brother (from that same mother) refused to explain in detail to his brother (ftsm) what made him leave, as he still stood by his pledge to not reveal secrets or details. Bad thing was that the man I talked about had a former member as his only reference. So I gave him my contact details for any question he might have now or in the future, if only for an alternate perspective. About jobs, first let's say it doesn't work like this and these stories are from those who fear and oppose Freemasonry. It makes sense to paint a group you are no member of in such a light so the storytellers are not to be blaimed. But how about this point of view? You are in an environment where a group of men who are looking for a direction in life come together to do good works, be these works on themselves, amongst their fellow members or towards society as a whole. Imagine how this will influence you and your well-being, your perspective on life and your dealing with the people around you, inside and outside of this group. For whatever reason, you join in, you do your community work, you study the ancient landmarks, you listen to your fellow members if they happen to be in distress or if they happen to have a pleasant story to tell. You also notice these people listen to you, accept you for who you are and will support you in the hardships you run into while continuing this road we call life. All this will strengthen you, your confidence will grow and you will develop to actually be a better man. Now imagine you to be a boss of two more or less similar employees, one who is your generic guy, he keeps his promises, works hard and is an overall nice guy family man. The other guy is also nice, finishes his work in time, keeps his promises and is kind to small animals. Besides this, when you talk he will listen, he will be interested in your well-being and he once told you about the volunteering he does. Now one of this will be promoted and the other not. That is when Freemasonry will help you progress in life, because of what it makes you become. I hope this answers your question. The jobs and promotions happen, not just because you are a member, but because of the merits it brings you in life and your boss better not be a Mason, that is a horrible relationship to have towards a Brother (the kind you find in lodge).
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Mar 1, 2013 19:16
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Thanks for all the advice, guys. Also, yeah I was just kidding with regards to joining to become a better man - I really just want the penny.
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Mar 2, 2013 04:52
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Keetron, don't I owe you like, $250 or something?
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Mar 2, 2013 08:30
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I appreciate the candid response guys, and I think it's given me a better picture of what masonry is. I'm still curious about Elizabeth Aldworth though.
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Mar 2, 2013 17:56
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7thBatallion posted:Keetron, don't I owe you like, $250 or something? Something like that but not that much. You were to pay me back when you would be able to, no matter how long that would take. I was, and am, trusting that we as Masons will follow through on our obligations. Feel free to email / pm me when you think you should pay me back. Please only do so when it will not endanger your fees for another year in the craft.
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Mar 2, 2013 18:51
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qraham posted:I appreciate the candid response guys, and I think it's given me a better picture of what masonry is. The wiki seems pretty accurate on Ms. Aldworth. I doubt any of us knew her personally, if that's what you mean.
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Mar 2, 2013 21:54
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Keetron posted:Something like that but not that much. Yeah, okay, I am definitely set on joining. Not to borrow a bunch of money or anything like that, but this attitude right here - I want to be a part of this.
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Mar 2, 2013 22:41
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A ILL BREAKFAST posted:Yeah, okay, I am definitely set on joining. Not to borrow a bunch of money or anything like that, but this attitude right here - I want to be a part of this. There's a story about President McKinley's decision to join the Craft that is similar to your decision here. During the Civil War it was not uncommon to see some courtesy between brethren even on opposite sides of the war. quote:When General Horatio King asked William McKinley how he happen to become a Mason he explained: "After the Battle of Opequam, I went with our surgeon of our Ohio regiment to the field where there were about 5,000 Confederate prisoners under guard. Almost as soon as we passed the guard, I noticed the doctor shook the hands with a number of Confederate prisoners. He also took from his pocket a roll of bills and distributed all he had among them. Boy-like, I looked on in wonderment; I didn't know what it all meant. On the way back from camp I asked him:
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Mar 2, 2013 23:04
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Another ACW story I like:quote:L.J. Williams of Harvard, New York, enlisted in the 114th New York Volunteers at the beginning of the Civil War. He received the Entered Apprentice and Fellowcraft Degrees in Downsville Lodge No. 464 prior to his leaving home. The most famous tale, of course, is of Gen. Armistead of Virginia. quote:One of the most famous events and one that I have mentioned earlier that occurred at Gettysburg was the huge Confederate infantry push known as Pickett's Charge. On July 3, Pickett (a member of Dove Lodge #51, Richmond, Va) led nearly 12,000 men on a long rush across open fields towards the center of the Union line on Cemetery Ridge. It has been called the last and greatest infantry charge in military history. There is now a statue at Gettysburg commemorating this event -- The "Friend to Friend" monument. Effingham fucked around with this message at 02:39 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 02:36
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If someone joined the Masons in a Japanese lodge, would they be able to transfer their membership to a lodge in the United States later on down the road?
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Mar 3, 2013 11:06
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It's no different than a member transferring from another US state or Canadian province, honestly. Each jurisdiction is managed/governed by/reports to/is chartered under a particular Grand Lodge (e.g. of California, Utah, Mexico, Spain, et cetera). Requesting a dual/plural membership may take a bit longer due to language barriers, but there shouldn't be any trouble provided the forms are all filled out and the respective Grand Lodges recognize each other as Masons (very, very, very rarely an issue).
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Mar 3, 2013 11:51
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jrgnsn_tjf posted:Brethren, Australian Mason checking in. I'm guessing this is the one you mean. Is it all going to be uploaded to youtube? We get channel 31 here in Sydney, but not sure if it shows everything from victoria, or just NSW stuff. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TrGHHoXfqeI
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Mar 3, 2013 12:29
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FreshFeesh posted:It's no different than a member transferring from another US state or Canadian province, honestly. Each jurisdiction is managed/governed by/reports to/is chartered under a particular Grand Lodge (e.g. of California, Utah, Mexico, Spain, et cetera). Requesting a dual/plural membership may take a bit longer due to language barriers, but there shouldn't be any trouble provided the forms are all filled out and the respective Grand Lodges recognize each other as Masons (very, very, very rarely an issue). Unless you are living in France, in which case you might want to reconsider altogether and rather join a lodge that reports to a Grand Lodge from another country. There actually are French lodges that requested the GL from another country to join them as the French GL that will be formed is not likely to have any future anyway. If you want to know more about FM in France, go hogwild on google as it is a loving mess.
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Mar 3, 2013 14:16
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FreshFeesh posted:It's no different than a member transferring from another US state or Canadian province, honestly. Each jurisdiction is managed/governed by/reports to/is chartered under a particular Grand Lodge (e.g. of California, Utah, Mexico, Spain, et cetera). Requesting a dual/plural membership may take a bit longer due to language barriers, but there shouldn't be any trouble provided the forms are all filled out and the respective Grand Lodges recognize each other as Masons (very, very, very rarely an issue). There's also the issue in Scandinavia where there's a religious requirement to become a Mason. They have no problem with guests, but Masonry is viewed as a Christian organization.
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Mar 3, 2013 16:30
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FreshFeesh posted:It's no different than a member transferring from another US state or Canadian province, honestly. Each jurisdiction is managed/governed by/reports to/is chartered under a particular Grand Lodge (e.g. of California, Utah, Mexico, Spain, et cetera). Requesting a dual/plural membership may take a bit longer due to language barriers, but there shouldn't be any trouble provided the forms are all filled out and the respective Grand Lodges recognize each other as Masons (very, very, very rarely an issue). I suppose that if you want to know if they are recognized, all you have to do is ask? Also, side question here: what are the rules on wearing your ring in public? I've heard mixed messages about this.
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Mar 3, 2013 20:41
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usernamen_01 posted:Also, side question here: what are the rules on wearing your ring in public? I've heard mixed messages about this. Wear it whenever you want as long as you're an MM.
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Mar 3, 2013 21:42
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usernamen_01 posted:Also, side question here: what are the rules on wearing your ring in public? I've heard mixed messages about this. Edit: Wafflehound said it better. WAFFLEHOUND posted:Wear it whenever you want as long as you're an MM.  I started wearing a ring right after I was initiated. I did take off my ring before I went to meetings or dinners though, to avoid the wrath of some past masters. All that said I don't see a reason why a Master Mason shouldn't wear a ring as often as he pleases or to wherever he feels it's appropriate. Lovable Luciferian fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 21:43
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I started wearing mine after I got my EA, but nobody in my district cared and I was specifically told it was okay.
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Mar 3, 2013 21:50
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WAFFLEHOUND posted:I started wearing mine after I got my EA, but nobody in my district cared and I was specifically told it was okay. Yeah no one in my district cares either. We had an EA wear his ring right after he was initiated and no one said a word to him. Life is too short to make bullshit out of something like that, though there's always one or two bastards out there willing to make a federal case out of it. 
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Mar 3, 2013 21:52
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Generally the prohibition against wearing Masonic jewelry before you're a Master Mason is because until you're a Master Mason, you're not going to be able to successfully identify yourself as a Master Mason. Masons who see you wearing jewelry will assume first that you're a MM, then, when you fail to be able to prove yourself, will assume you're an impostor. The basic thing for me is that Masonic jewelry serves two purposes: reminding yourself of your obligations, and presenting an outward sign for brothers to see. I have recognized probably 5 or 6 brothers I'd never have known about otherwise based on their rings and some test questions, and it is always good to meet another Mason. I know in the charges in both my jurisdictions they just make it straight up clear whether you can or can't, and I see no reason to breach the charge, depending on how you receive it. If you're not sure, just ask someone. As far as it goes, there are some places that are more hostile than others to outward signs of Masonic affiliation. I wear my ring all the time, but in some places it's considered poor form to be too open about it (I do not know why, presumably local culture).
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Mar 4, 2013 00:58
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Gee whiz, that's a good volume response! I really appreciate it. How hard is it to become a master mason? Is there a sort of an expected time frame you have to abide by to get to that rank..if you can call it that?
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Mar 4, 2013 09:17
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qraham posted:But if I'm being completely honest, the thing that is most intriguing is the idea that being a mason might help my career in some way; I've heard stories of people getting jobs or promotions because they did the right handshake with the right person. Can you guys speak to this at all? I'd say most of these stories are apocryphal at best. More likely is that they joined a lodge and got to know some guys that happened to know about job openings - but that's true of any social organization. If that's your goal, I'd say go for something like the Rotary Club or something. The aim of Freemasonry isn't socio-economic growth, but moral and fraternal growth. usernamen_01 posted:Gee whiz, that's a good volume response! I really appreciate it. It's not "hard" per se, but the time table varies by district. I was able to be initiated, learn my catechism in 2 weeks (meeting with my coach every day), was passed, another 2 weeks or catechism learning, and then was raised. There was some ebb and flow in that schedule, and it was around Christmas so things got delayed a bit, but I was initiated in October of '10 and was raised to the sublime degree of master mason in January of '11. Count Thrashula fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 14:31
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QPZIL posted:It's not "hard" per se, but the time table varies by district. I was able to be initiated, learn my catechism in 2 weeks (meeting with my coach every day), was passed, another 2 weeks or catechism learning, and then was raised. There was some ebb and flow in that schedule, and it was around Christmas so things got delayed a bit, but I was initiated in October of '10 and was raised to the sublime degree of master mason in January of '11. For the record, that's lightning fast. I'm examining a class of EAs Thursday night - they were initiated mid-summer 2012. Granted, my lodge went dark for a couple of months, but I also had to work around the schedules of two of the guys in my class who are police officers, and they were busy for two months preparing for one of the presidential debates which was held here in October, plus everybody else's work schedule, etc. But you're right - with a bit of effort, it's not hard. Everyone does it the same way - learning one line of the ritual at a time.
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Mar 4, 2013 17:45
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You can also get in on a one day class that some states have once a year, you will get every degree in a single day but obviously you lose something by going that route. Like everyone else has said, the amount of time it takes is going to vary lodge to lodge. If you are able to memorize things really well, you could honestly get it done within 3 months at my lodge (sometimes less due to 9999999 meetings per month).
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Mar 4, 2013 20:09
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As has already been said, it does tend to vary from lodge to lodge, and jurisdiction to jurisdiction. A good friend of mine was initiated into a lodge in Belgium (which thankfully was under the constitution of the Grand Lodge of Scotland, not any of the potentially irregular 'Grand Lodges' on the continent) and was told that to progress from his first to second would be around about a year. For my lodge, it also varies but mainly down to the particular persons work schedule, as you would expect. There is no long catechism here, merely a short set of questions that the candidate must memorise the answer to.
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Mar 4, 2013 22:20
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Our lodge tends to be quite busy, with a new initiate almost every month. There are other lodges locally that are not so swamped, so it is not uncommon for us to farm out some of the degree work. We also have an emergent almost every month so we can try to keep up with the trestle board. I'm not complaining, though; it's great to have so many opportunities to practice different pieces. But yeah, it can often take a year or so to get your 3rd.
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Mar 4, 2013 23:24
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Re: mohawk and two hoop earrings I've told this before, but I was rather concerned before my first visit to what is now my home Lodge. I was worried that my appearance (I'm a big, e.g., fat guy, and I have a simple loop earring in my left ear) and my lack of super-fancy clothes (I was in khakis and a polo-type shirt) would work against me in my quest to join the Craft. When I showed up, I quickly realized that one of the then-current officers (now a PM) was a bigger dude than I was, and the former DDGGM who gave me the tour had multiple earrings in one ear. Remember, it is the internal, not the external aspects that bring a man to Masonry.
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Mar 4, 2013 23:36
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mrbill posted:Re: mohawk and two hoop earrings I've been thinking about that original post for a few days now, and I have mixed feelings. While I agree with the poster who immediately responded that there should be no discrimination based on appearance, I also feel that a certain degree of decorum and respect for the craft must be observed. And a mohawk or piercings does not automatically negate that, either. If someone showed up with a yellow plaid suit I'd probably feel that was inappropriate, so I can see how some fellows may be put out by radical hairdos. Having not seen the gentleman in question I can't make any real judgement, and I mostly feel it's fine. I also feel, however, that the dignity of the lodge should trump any zany fashion choices. You can do that stuff every day, so maybe it wouldn't kill you to tone it down for meetings. Am I making any sense, or am I way off? I'd be curious to hear more opinions. Way back in the old thread someone was talking about how they wanted to display their Warhammer 40K badge things on their apron, and I thought that was really childish and inappropriate; much more so than a mohawk.
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Mar 5, 2013 00:17
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My impression of Masonic meetings was men dressed in black suits and ties. I find it hard to imagine Masons with mohawks and ear rings meeting to discuss business. Would expected attire vary this much by region?
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Mar 5, 2013 01:45
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usernamen_01 posted:My impression of Masonic meetings was men dressed in black suits and ties. I find it hard to imagine Masons with mohawks and ear rings meeting to discuss business. Would expected attire vary this much by region? Try vary by Lodge. Just a few miles from here the "formal attire" required of officers on degree nights is ... a tie. At my Lodge, officers are expected to have a black suit (at least) or tuxedos, and to wear jackets and ties to all Lodge business meetings. In San Francisco, if memory serves, there's a Lodge where tuxedos are the expected norm for all guests; officers wear white tuxes for all events. It all boils down to what is deemed "respectful" and can be a part of the Lodge culture or history, something that sets it apart from others in the area. We have brothers with tattoos (including myself), piercings, and a variety of hair styles, but most importantly I will absolutely agree with Flying Fortress -- if you are being respectful to the institution and to the Lodge, I don't see any reason for complaint.
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Mar 5, 2013 02:32
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Officers at my Lodge are expected to have suit and tie for monthly Stated meetings and special functions. Otherwise, we've had informal degree practice and get-togethers in shorts and t-shirts. I can honestly say that my Lodge genuinely cares about what's in a Brother's head and heart, and not the shirt on his back. mrbill fucked around with this message at 05:07 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 03:00
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Flying Fortress posted:I've been thinking about that original post for a few days now, and I have mixed feelings. While I agree with the poster who immediately responded that there should be no discrimination based on appearance, I also feel that a certain degree of decorum and respect for the craft must be observed. And a mohawk or piercings does not automatically negate that, either. If someone showed up with a yellow plaid suit I'd probably feel that was inappropriate, so I can see how some fellows may be put out by radical hairdos. Having not seen the gentleman in question I can't make any real judgement, and I mostly feel it's fine. I also feel, however, that the dignity of the lodge should trump any zany fashion choices. You can do that stuff every day, so maybe it wouldn't kill you to tone it down for meetings. Brother Joseph Brant had a "radical" hairstyle and piercings, and he was raised in the 1776. 
3 Action Economist fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Mar 5, 2013 |
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Mar 5, 2013 14:24
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