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Same reason for any of the maintenance sliders? To cut down the amount of stuff you buy a day to save money.
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Mar 1, 2013 14:03
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Friend Commuter posted:So all the construction slider does is slow construction ever-so-slightly? What's the point of having it, then? It was all one slider previously. We kept it because although it the least useful of the 3 sliders it was still something you could previously adjust, and it could still be useful if you get attacked in the middle of your glorious massive building plan and suddenly want to divert all you money to your army instead.
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Mar 1, 2013 14:31
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:Plus, a list of achievements would be nice, like how MotE tracks captured battle flags on the unit level. More than anything, I want EU4 to take steps towards narrativizing gameplay. That's what would make each playthrough unique and that's why CK2 was so successful. The audience doesn't want characters just because, they want characters because that gives gameplay a sense of narrative focus. People want to make their own stories and having to write basic poo poo like leader names and battle stats down doesn't help. AoD and Darkest Hour do a lot of this - casualty statistics are tracked throughout the game. It gives, as you say, a much greater sense of narrative to the game when you can look back at your own Battle of Britain and say with certainty how many Spitfires and Hurricanes you lost defending the coast, how many troops you captured when you cornered the Italian army in Tobruk etc. Paradox seems bizarrely hostile to the idea though, to the point that it's a banned topic of discussion on the HoI3 forums iirc. More generally, something to help players tie together events in their games such that they can easily look back at how things unfolded has been totally lacking in most Paradox games to date. The inclusion of newspaper headlines tailored to your game in HoD seems to be a step toward correcting that, though, which is an encouraging sign.
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Mar 1, 2013 14:51
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The brief Cillian Intervention ended after 2 years, resulting in status quo. The most decisive battle of the war was when 3668 men, led by the Cillian William I of Cilli, suffered some losses attacking the 2917 men strong Hungarian army, led by János Festetics, who suffered some losses. Can't you just feel the excitement?
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Mar 1, 2013 16:45
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The Corporate posted:Paradox seems bizarrely hostile to the idea though, to the point that it's a banned topic of discussion on the HoI3 forums iirc.
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Mar 1, 2013 16:59
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So I just won my first MotE game, playing as Russia. I first got a couple of states from Persia in the starting war (including I believe a Land Objective). Then I went to war with the Ottomans, who were fighting Austria at the same time. Surprisingly enough they had a hell of a navy; a stack of 40 ships, my Black Sea Fleet of 7 or so ships of the line was no match, and in the end I had to settle for the thin strip of the northern black sea coast that they have, plus Erzerum (that gave me Koci, a naval objective, but I was unable to take Batum, a land objective). After that I went to war with Prussia, taking the border provinces and having to stop shy off my objectives of Danzig and Warsaw. Well, after I got Batum (and a few more states) from the Ottomans in the next war with them (Austria was still fighting them! They'd occupied most of Ottoman Europe and peaced out for a very large chunk of it during my war) there was no point in caring for Warsaw since I was at 100% land domination (but still needed to dethrone France). In the end I took Danzig and the next coastal area from Prussia and forced them to release a German minor around Lubeck as my satellite, which placed me at 7/8 needed provinces for naval dominance; Great Britain had lost control of Gibraltar so that path was clear. I did another war with Prussia after that to connect my new satellite and the Baltic corridor I'd created from Prussia's coastal provinces before joining Britain's fight against France. So onto the more interesting part of the game, I declare war on France, figuring I'd first knock them off land dominance before I attain naval dominance myself and find me the target of a coalition, and form a coalition against them (since Britain had dissolved its own for some reason). From my vassal's lands in Lubeck I invade the French provinces in northern Germany and quickly meet, during my siege of Bremen, the Grand Armée's full strength. It was by far the largest and most powerful army I'd seen up to then, my wars with Prussia and the Ottomans taught me to expect up to 60,000 troops at the same time at most. France exceeded that by far and caught my with my pants down. That's around 160K Frenchmen and Dutchmen making mincemeat of my forward force. I did manage to escape with much thanks to military access I'd received from Sweden in anticipation of disaster (the magnitude of which I'd vastly underestimated), using Swedish-controlled Kiel to escape the wrath of the French in Bremen, and a transport fleet I'd built in anticipation of an eventual invasion of Denmark to complete naval dominance through Copenhagen. It was during this initial confrontation that I realised the sheer power of March to the Sound of Guns; you think you're fighting against a medium-sized enemy force during your retreat but within a couple days the superior quantity and quality of the enemy forces is devastating your own. So at this point I make my hasty retreat. I couldn't scortch the earth at this point to devastate the French in their advance, but regardless I retreat my forces all the way to Danzig, and also call in the Austrian border guards (amounting for another 50,000 troops). I had, of course, thought that I might have to retreat all this way, and made sure to load up a huge garrison 0f 20K troops in Danzig, which itself has a level 2 fort. Danzig is behind a river, and there my land corridor is two provinces wide on the eastern side and three wide on the western side. My troops were still reinforcing and I was not feeling ready to fight a battle yet so I'd left its province unoccupied to let them sit there and suffer attrition. The French quickly overtook everything else in the corridor up to Danzig, and started sieging it with about 60K troops, as just as many behind the river. After they'd lost a good chunk of their forces (their stack sieging Danzig was down to 47K), I attacked. I did not expect it, but the battle was a resounding success; the French units from the other side of the river didn't join in, and in the end what was left of the initial ~120,000 French troops was this: The definition of a bottleneck. Following that I pushed all the way to Bremen again, got pushed out again, but Austria took the opportunity so France couldn't push into my lands again. When I regrouped and attacked France again, I was not pushed back again; I took their north German stuff, went into the Netherlands (which was a drat slog because it seemed like only three or four of the Dutch provinces did not have a city or a fort), and pushed into France proper; resistance was minimal, as French forces were probably focusing on Austria, and there was a last-ditch effort with 20K troops to stop me when I reached Paris; by then I'd taken Brussels, and without that and Hannover France had dropped from Land Dominance and I held that post. By that point 20,000 troops was formidable, I don't think any of the stacks I was fielding had more than 25K troops left, and two or three were under 10K, but I persevered, Paris fell, and Napoleon was finally made ready to accept defeat and make concessions. By then, late 1818, I had 49% warscore and he'd accept a peace up to 24, which was just enough to take all that France had in North Germany and Brussels (which came with a tiny shore and brought with it ugly borders). I regrouped quickly, and as the game was ending soon, declared war on Denmark as soon as a good chunck of my forces had reinforced. Prussia joined on their side but they didn't matter, all I needed to do was capture Copenhagen to win. Of course, two days before my forces landed there Sweden had landed 100,000 troops of its own, cutting off my way to victory. Well, the solution to that was simple. Wait with Sweden until Copenhagen fell, let them to off siege someplace else in Denmark, declare war and capture it from them. And that I did in my most gamey deed all game. My strategy with Russia was exactly what you'd expect; throw men at the enemy, retreat, reinforce, throw more men at the enemy. It was almost stereotypical; other than the relief of Danzig there were no big battles, no big battles that I won at least. It was a war of attrition, pure and simple, I let myself take damage knowing that in the long run I could recover from it easier than the French could from their own losses. All in all, this was extremely gamey and much different than other Paradox games, Hearts of Iron included. In fact, I wouldn't call it a Grand Strategy game at all; it reminds me more of an actual classic strategy board game than what anyone has learned to expect from previous Pdox games (which is merely an observation and not in any way criticism; I had a lot of fun, and that's without having touched the multiplayer yet). It should be treated as a board game when considering its strengths and weaknesses, or when you consider a purchase. 
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Mar 1, 2013 17:01
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I think the funniest thing about the stockpile sliders were other players keeping it at zero to save money for their bloated militaries only to get attacked and end u needing 5 years before their organization restored itself. The national stockpile should probably have a minimum point of funding based on military policy.
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Mar 1, 2013 17:34
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Looks like East vs. West is delayed a bit. Lot of angst in that thread.quote:What makes me so angry about this push back, is that we were told that development was on track and going smoothly. Had we been told about this earlier on I wouldn't have minded as much. If this is due to some scheduling error by PI rather than development that's a little different. But I guess we'll see, either way, I don't care for the common opinion that just because a game is pushed back that'll automatically make it better. Why aren't I kept in the loop on all aspects of development, I own you Paradox, I OWN YOU.  Also this was a good write up, thanks for posting this. I've been having fun with MotE and enjoy the more gamey focused approach for what it is. orphean fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Mar 1, 2013 |
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Mar 1, 2013 18:04
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I guess if people have pre-ordered it then a delay is going to be a disappointment, but I didn't think EvW was available for pre-order at all? In which case, that's just software development for you! v v Better a late game than a broken game.
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Mar 1, 2013 18:13
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More time for development is always a good thing.
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Mar 1, 2013 18:22
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:More time for development is always a good thing. Yeah, Duke Nukem Forever turned out great.
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Mar 1, 2013 18:44
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Koesj posted:Yeah, Duke Nukem Forever turned out great. Closer to home, so did Magna Mundi.
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Mar 1, 2013 18:52
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YF-23 posted:Closer to home, so did Magna Mundi. Magna Mundi unironically turned out great, if only for the Ubik meltdown.
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Mar 1, 2013 18:56
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It's the game's first delay and people are acting like the thing's been cancelled in there. Have the Devs said what's up yet?
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Mar 1, 2013 19:40
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Kavak posted:It's the game's first delay and people are acting like the thing's been cancelled in there. Have the Devs said what's up yet?
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Mar 1, 2013 20:03
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It's probably too late to get it into EU4, but a button on the military screen to pay a cost to upgrade ships to the current type would be incredible. Even if you had to pay full price again to upgrade, being able to reuse old ships (or the ones you capture) would be drat useful.
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Mar 1, 2013 20:27
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Paradox posted:We are working closely together on making EvW into a great game. When working on large projects, sometimes there are delays due to unforeseen circumstances. This means we are now slightly behind on East vs West. Neither of us wants to rush this, so we decided to give it some extra time to get it right. It is shaping up very nicely and we will soon open the beta applications... No real details in the thread they posted about the delay. I'm guessing they are fixing bugs or tweaking content. Also... quote:
Better than Magna Mundi: confirmed.
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Mar 1, 2013 20:50
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From PCgamesN: http://www.pcgamesn.com/solving-paradox-leviathan-impire-showdown-effect-east-vs-west-and-changing-publisherquote:But even here, Paradox seem to be ahead of the potential problems. In just a few months the game has gone from looking like a fairly rough mod to a fairly polished strategy game, with a lot more on offer than just the United States vs. the USSR. Instead of focusing on the usual “Warsaw Pact invades Germany!” World War III scenario, we saw the early stages of the Arab-Israeli war in 1948, as the newborn Jewish state established itself in a battle with its Arab neighbors and demanded recognition from the world’s great powers. More importantly, I saw a lot of encouraging signs about how East vs. West will integrate small regional wars, complex internal politics, and a tense and dangerous global environment into an appealing whole. That's somewhat encouraging.
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Mar 1, 2013 20:56
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PleasingFungus posted:It's possible that you, a person who does not like Hearts of Iron 3, are not the target audience for "Hearts of Iron 3: East vs. West". True, but i am the target audience for cold war simulator. So i can certainly be very very disappointed that a game claiming to be about the cold war is about a bad alt history fiction where the war goes hot.
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Mar 1, 2013 21:07
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That is encouraging. I wonder why they aren't putting this foot forward.
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Mar 1, 2013 21:07
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quote:For instance, War of the Roses looks poised to grow and improve quite a bit this year, but I can never shake the feeling it thinks small. It is becoming more of a medieval Battlefield, complete with a Rush-style game mode, but it lacks the accidental grandeur or Mount and Blade. It has the art and style of a great medieval combat game, but the scale of a shooter deathmatch. While the Brian Blessed DLC coming out this year should be good for a laugh (his narration of a deathmatch sounds priceless), I’m not certain that War of the Roses is the best of both worlds so much as an awkward combination. Why is it only now that I've heard about this?
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Mar 1, 2013 21:17
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How does paradox usually do open betas of their games? I'd like to get in on the EvW one if possible.
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Mar 1, 2013 21:21
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:That is encouraging. I wonder why they aren't putting this foot forward. maybe that's the stuff that'll be out closer to release? I assume that's the more exciting stuff to the majority of the potential audience for the game.
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Mar 1, 2013 21:26
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Raskolnikov38 posted:How does paradox usually do open betas of their games? I'd like to get in on the EvW one if possible. They do surveys to get into the closed beta but they never do open betas.
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Mar 1, 2013 21:26
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Well, assuming it's like EU3, they only live for five to ten years anyways.
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Mar 1, 2013 21:31
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Wiz posted:I'm writing improvements to the wargoal system. Boom shaka shaka shaka shaka!
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Mar 1, 2013 21:38
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uPen posted:They do surveys to get into the closed beta but they never do open betas. D'oh missed "the" between open and beta but thanks for the answer.
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Mar 1, 2013 22:01
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Anyways, if some goons want to tackle MotE MP, I can host this weekend (Im in euroland, so GMT+1 time zone). The game isn't very interesting against the AI but it's akin to Diplomacy in Multiplayer. Just played a 'short' 2 years game with Russia, where I invaded Finland (Sweden surrendered to France cutting off my conquests... LAME, if you become a satellite you should lose all your territories currently occupied in another war to prevent this gamey thing), bullied Ottoman and invaded Prussia. Britain got invaded by France which rendered the game a bit moot. So i'd like to play with goons with a few games under their belt.
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Mar 1, 2013 22:06
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mmtt posted:Anyways, if some goons want to tackle MotE MP, I can host this weekend (Im in euroland, so GMT+1 time zone). The game isn't very interesting against the AI but it's akin to Diplomacy in Multiplayer. I would be up for it, in the last multiplayer game I accepted to become a satellite to Sweden when Russia occupied most of my land but I honestly pressed accept my misstake.
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Mar 1, 2013 22:09
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Yeah let's get a MotE group going, I'm up for it.
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Mar 1, 2013 22:14
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Cityinthesea posted:maybe that's the stuff that'll be out closer to release? I assume that's the more exciting stuff to the majority of the potential audience for the game. If that's the case then you think they'd at least show some of the stuff mentioned in that article. That'd surely do a lot to excite people about the game and head off the nervous speculation taking place in this thread and elsewhere.
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Mar 1, 2013 22:55
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Crameltonian posted:If that's the case then you think they'd at least show some of the stuff mentioned in that article. That'd surely do a lot to excite people about the game and head off the nervous speculation taking place in this thread and elsewhere.
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Mar 1, 2013 23:07
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I've been asking for individual unit maintenance sliders since the days of EUII. Any chance of it for EUIV? Having to mobilize a million-man national army because 5,000 dudes over in south america need a morale boost kinda sucks  Doesn't even have to be for individual units...maybe units assigned to a specific theater or something? pretty please? 
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Mar 2, 2013 01:34
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Sulla posted:I've been asking for individual unit maintenance sliders since the days of EUII. Any chance of it for EUIV? Hell, the unit maintenance sliders themselves should just be a toggle, unless it's a Victoria-like model where supplies are separate products/materials that needs to be bought from the market and consumed, and/or Org regain is slow enough that you might want to keep a lower-than-100%-but-not-zero slider level so that you don't have to wait for several months of resting if you suddenly find yourself in a defensive war.
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Mar 2, 2013 04:02
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shut up shut up shut up shut up its not gary grizby's victoria 2 :|
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Mar 2, 2013 04:06
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I'd just love it if the unit menu would unite all the good ideas spread out across the Paradox games. Show me how many men this unit is going to get when it next reinforces. Show me when it's going to reach the next province and when it's going to reach its final destination. Don't leave me in the dark about ETAs just because I'm loading or unloading onto a ship. Stuff like that. I don't think there's been a single Paradox game that has had all of these in one UI.
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Mar 2, 2013 04:08
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Baloogan posted:shut up shut up shut up shut up If the Org regain is going to be so fast, as it currently already works in EU, and all it costs is gold which is just generated from tax and trade revenue calculations, then it doesn't really need a slider, and could/should just be an all-or-nothing toggle. If, on the other hand, the Org regain is slow and it costs stuff which actually has to be produced/harvested, bought on the World Market then consumed by the actual armies, as it currently works in Victoria, then there is arguably a real need for a slider because the slow Org regain serves as an incentive for the player to use mid-way settings on the Maintenance slider. Wolfgang Pauli posted:I'd just love it if the unit menu would unite all the good ideas spread out across the Paradox games. Show me how many men this unit is going to get when it next reinforces. Show me when it's going to reach the next province and when it's going to reach its final destination. Don't leave me in the dark about ETAs just because I'm loading or unloading onto a ship. Stuff like that. I don't think there's been a single Paradox game that has had all of these in one UI. MOTE's UI shows both the time to get to the next province over and the time to get to the final destination, so Paradox is getting there.
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Mar 2, 2013 04:23
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Obviously it's way too late for EUIV, but for a hypothetical EUV as far as maintenance goes, I'd sort of like to see an end to peacetime armies as mobile units. Your standing army units are generally 'stationed' or 'garrisoned' somewhere during peacetime. They look like a little cluster of tents or a fort icon, depending on if the province has a strong fort. Units could be tied to the province that built them and have variable support costs based on where they are stationed. So a European unit build in England might only cost 5 gold a year if it was stationed in Scotland, 10 in occupied non-cored France, 25 in America, 35 in India, etc. So you'd be strongly encouraged to use local/colonial/native units as the bulk of your overseas forces, and your high-quality European forces are deployed out as the backbone/elite because they're expensive to supply/support overseas. Stationed units couldn't move or do anything. But you could 'activate' a stationed unit, which would take a few weeks or a month or two and it would turn into a little marching army man like we have now. Active units would cost double or triple or whatever the gold cost of a stationed unit, but it could run around, smack down rebels and be moved to another province to be 'stationed'. During wars units on inactive fronts could be 'stationed' to save money, but they'd take time to get up to speed and 'activate' so they could be of use in an emergency. There would be no upkeep slider. Unit cost is solely dependent on if a given unit is active or stationed, and it's really clear on the map which is which because it's either a tent icon or an army man icon. No more of the annoying bullshit where you need to kill 8000 rebels in your Florida colony so your entire, vast, globe spanning Imperial army of 700,000 men goes on  FULL TOTAL WAR FOOTING for months and drains your treasury dry.Maintaining your elite European infantry overseas would be more expensive in a fairly clear way. Hell, I might put a 10$ marker right on the tiny unit bar, or let you switch between strength and upkeep, so you could easily review what was costing you how much and where. Mousing over it could give a cost breakdown (Euro unit +5$, Overseas +10$, Hostile Religion +3$, Hostile Culture +4$, no core +2$, Province development +4$) Supporting your army in a hostile country on the other side of the world would be much more expensive then just having it sitting at home in London. Moving units around and your peacetime positioning would be more important. Also, because I'm an rear end in a top hat, I'd ramp winter attrition for active units way, WAY up to encourage you to 'station' them (and thus get way less attrition) during the winter and create seasonal operational pauses.  Finally, a reason to look at the terrain map.
Fintilgin fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Mar 2, 2013 |
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Mar 2, 2013 05:00
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I don't know. If there's a 2-4 week wait to activate and a constant drain on maintenance, it'd be preferable to not have a standing army in the first place. Or, alternatively, you could consider the manpower count as stationed and inactive troops and recruiting units activates them. I do agree that maintenance could vary by region, though. I think it'd be neat if a future EU game modeled the transition from levies to standing army by slowly phasing out a CK-like unit system in favor of an EU-like one.
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Mar 2, 2013 05:11
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Wolfgang Pauli posted:I don't know. If there's a 2-4 week wait to activate and a constant drain on maintenance, it'd be preferable to not have a standing army in the first place. Or, alternatively, you could consider the manpower count as stationed and inactive troops and recruiting units activates them. I do agree that maintenance could vary by region, though. Well, I presume the game and numbers would be balanced so it was fairly close to what we have now. If most of your army was deployed in a 'normal' manner, most a home, some overseas as an elite, the upkeep cost would be comparable to what you pay now at minimum slider. Maxing everyone out might be more expensive. The multi-week or month activation would be comparable to the time it takes to get them up to max morale when you crank the slider.
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Mar 2, 2013 05:19
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