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PierreTheMime posted:After a lot of thinking, I've come to the decision that I liked the overall change of Necron background from slaves of the C'tan to a more personalized and driven/insane space empire. I don't believe I could do the same with Tyranids, as they have forever been as they are now in terms of their general theme and background. If they have a non-Zoat/Genestealer Hybrid talking at any point in any story to anyone for any reason I'm going to be saddened. I prefer my tyranids as part of a hivemind so big that it is literally a sentient entity, sending its tendrils (the hive fleets that have been encountered) out looking for more biomass to improve itself with. It's been hinted at in the past that there was some greater force driving the tyranid invasion of our galaxy, I've always just preferred to think of it as a giant sentient being made up of billions of smaller beings.
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Mar 3, 2013 18:44
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PierreTheMime posted:After a lot of thinking, I've come to the decision that I liked the overall change of Necron background from slaves of the C'tan to a more personalized and driven/insane space empire. I don't believe I could do the same with Tyranids, as they have forever been as they are now in terms of their general theme and background. If they have a non-Zoat/Genestealer Hybrid talking at any point in any story to anyone for any reason I'm going to be saddened. Emperor preserve us! It's Karah Serrigan! The Blade of Queens!
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Mar 3, 2013 18:45
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Manifest posted:I prefer my tyranids as part of a hivemind so big that it is literally a sentient entity, sending its tendrils (the hive fleets that have been encountered) out looking for more biomass to improve itself with. Maybe they'll go with the whole "the Tyranids are misunderstood! They're actually fleeing from an even greater threat!" 
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Mar 3, 2013 18:48
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theironjef posted:Emperor preserve us! It's Karah Serrigan! The Blade of Queens!  I just realized that whenever Tyranids are mentioned in this thread a bunch of people show up to comment. Doesn't matter the context, it just happens. (I'm definitely one of them)
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Mar 3, 2013 18:53
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Phyresis posted:When Screamers charge, they get four attacks each, which you can then choose to substitute for one Lamprey's Bite attack for each. Smash says that the MC may halve it's "Attacks characteristic" in order to Smash, which the +1A (or +2A if it has Rage) for charging is added to. I wasn't sure initially, but that makes sense. Thanks! They are definitely a contender for Prescience when they charge in against Sv2 guys. Against power armor marines you are actually better off using your normal attacks!
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Mar 3, 2013 18:55
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theironjef posted:the various "plans" it has underway From the desk of the Tyranid Hivemind: To do: CONSUME ALL LIFE Order a "Hang In There" kitten poster for the office. Status: Doin' pretty good.
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Mar 3, 2013 18:56
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For a species defined by their lack of personality, tyranids are more interesting than basically any book full of one specific shade of power armor. They're just fun! Gribbly bugs you can glue extra arms on and the extra arms do something! Also their codex is so piss-poor that even fans of other armies know they need a new one. Yes yes, I know they have a playable build these days but that current book could be six pages long and be exactly as relevant. Currently smoking: Gobbet of biomass / Image Latakia
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Mar 3, 2013 18:58
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To be fair the guy just says 'a connection' between them all, no mention of the Old Ones creating them. Maybe they were simply aware the Tyranids were coming and they figured they'd just deal with them when they got here or tried to put together a plan but couldn't due to the Necron war. The Necron connnection already exists in that the Hive Mind avoids Necron worlds, maybe they'll go into exactly why that is (beyond a lack of biomass).
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Mar 3, 2013 19:08
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The Gate posted:The Necron connnection already exists in that the Hive Mind avoids Necron worlds, maybe they'll go into exactly why that is (beyond a lack of biomass). Yeah, the writers make it seem like the 'nids go out of their way to avoid Tomb Worlds, moreso than they do for barren planets or whatever. I've wanted to know more about the animosity between the Necrons and Tyranids for a while now. I'm also under the impression that Orks are after Eldar (maybe not immediately after, but close) and then Tyranids should be a book or two after them.
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Mar 3, 2013 19:13
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The Gate posted:To be fair the guy just says 'a connection' between them all, no mention of the Old Ones creating them. Maybe they were simply aware the Tyranids were coming and they figured they'd just deal with them when they got here or tried to put together a plan but couldn't due to the Necron war. The Necron connnection already exists in that the Hive Mind avoids Necron worlds, maybe they'll go into exactly why that is (beyond a lack of biomass). I remember seeing this too, there was a bit about a known tomb-world being in the path of a massive hive fleet and the hive fleet mysteriously ignores it, giving the tomb-world 'a wide berth' or something like that. Maybe they are going to draw in the anti-warp the Necrons have, like the Cadian pylons that were (supposedly) built by the Necrons (and are the entire reason that the Cadian Gate exists, more or less) that started to crack when the 13th Black Crusade started?
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Mar 3, 2013 20:05
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I'm just crossposting a box of Grey Knights since at this rate I've got so many unpainted. Also, I've been out of this game for a while, what's horribly unbalance/unfun to play these days, anyways?
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Mar 3, 2013 21:09
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Big Willy Style posted:I don't know why the myth about some great embargo emplaced on Australia by GW is still persistant in this thread. We can order perfectly fine the US. Discount Games and Dicebucket are who me and my gaming group use. The great big embargo is the one where European retailers can't ship outside Europe. American prices are better than ours, but everyone used to order all their stuff from the UK for a reason; because it was much cheaper still.
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Mar 3, 2013 21:48
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I'll be honest, I mainly chose tyranids as my army because of their fluff. I love a giant, completely alien, incomprehensible allegory for death from beyond the limits of the galaxy driven by nothing but their most basic instinct to feed as far as any of the other races can tell. I also love that the eldar have some special word for the tyranids (I thought I read it on the lexicon, basically the eldar word for devour or consume I think) showing that the tyranids have been present for countless eons as a threat to all life. I guess I just like playing an army that is basically the physical manifestation of galactic destruction. I don't want to know what my own goddamn hive mind thinks, I love that the only psyker that might have ever touched the hive mind without being reduced to a gibbering lunatic was the emperor at the peak of his power. I guess I just like that the tyranids have fantastic fluff while still being a blank slate as far as my own hive fleet's motivations and fluff are considered. I can believe I just typed that big whiny rant about a theoretical change in my plastic space bugs that is over a year away... On another note I found some complete metal models in a bitz box at my LGS yesterday while playing so I figured I would see if anyone on SA could use them or something. pic sorry about the crap quality, I don't have a nice space for pictures like some of the better painters and my camera is an old iphone. It's 2 plasma guardsmen, a melta guardsman I think but the model is old and the gun is a little funny looking, a guardsman with binoculars, a plain sister of battle with bolter and some sister with a staff and book. I'll send them out to whoever wants them free of charge but plasma and melta guards especially seemed like a waste to leave in a box full of plastic bits. Also for all you conversion experts out there I want to put the swords on my tyranid warriors along with slapping those wings on one of them to make some LW/BS shrikes over time, does anyone have some tips or a guide to help me out with first time conversions? edit: I don't know how old the models are/what edition they are from but the plasma guns at least match the look of the most recent models if that is important to whoever wants them mmj fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 22:35
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I have a rules question that came up last night. Unit A is shooting Unit B. Unit A can only see the IC attached to Unit B and he has no cover from them. Unit A scores 6 wounds on Unit B. The IC takes 6 Look Out Sirs and makes them all. The wounds now transfer to the 6 closes models to the IC. None of these models can be seen by Unit A. Can they be allocated here because they don't have Line of Sight? Do they get cover saves from the attacks, if so what kind? If they can't be allocated are they then lost? Last night was a lot of fun, once I have a little more time I post some pictures of what happened. My friend playing with the new Daemon codex lost all three of his matches sadly, but I think it had more to do with still learning the codex rather than it being weak and he was constantly forgetting little things (like rerolling 1 on his invul saves).
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Mar 3, 2013 22:36
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JesusIsTehCool posted:I have a rules question that came up last night. They can LoS. It's supposed to represent someone pushing the target out of the way or jumping in front of them to eat a bullet instead. On the other hand, if the IC took more wounds than he has left, the remaining units out of sight do not take the wound overflow without the LoS. if all the unit but the IC is in cover and you focus fire on units not in cover, the same wound rules apply and the wounds don't roll over onto the units in cover as a result. in both cases you CAN LoS but he CAN'T claim extra wounds going to the unit if they are out of line of sight or focus fire targets models out of cover. Hope that helps
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Mar 3, 2013 22:41
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Do they guys who take the Look out Sir get cover saves?
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Mar 3, 2013 22:44
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mmj posted:I can believe I just typed that big whiny rant about a theoretical change in my plastic space bugs that is over a year away... We've all been there. We only care because of how invested we are in this dumb hobby.
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Mar 3, 2013 22:47
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Do they guys who take the Look out Sir get cover saves? no, think of it as the random mook jumping out in front of the character, and going out of cover to do it, and there are rules for units with mixed armor saves that determine when the LoS roll is made during wound resolution. mixed saves mean you have to LoS before rolling armor saves but after rolling for wounds at average squad toughness. If the unit all has the same save you make LoS after armor save, before wound resolution if I remember correctly. Of course this all goes out the window for precision shots I think, but I can't remember for sure. I can't remember what the rule is for a weapon that would ignore the armor save of everyone in the squad (say a lascannon or power axe). LoS is one of the few new rules in 6th that I don't think is very intuitive to implement but I still like it, especially the general idea of a grunt realizing his commander matters more than him and sacrificing himself to save the other guy.
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Mar 3, 2013 22:52
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mmj posted:no, think of it as the random mook jumping out in front of the character, and going out of cover to do it, and there are rules for units with mixed armor saves that determine when the LoS roll is made during wound resolution. mixed saves mean you have to LoS before rolling armor saves but after rolling for wounds at average squad toughness. If the unit all has the same save you make LoS after armor save, before wound resolution if I remember correctly. Of course this all goes out the window for precision shots I think, but I can't remember for sure. I can't remember what the rule is for a weapon that would ignore the armor save of everyone in the squad (say a lascannon or power axe). LoS is one of the few new rules in 6th that I don't think is very intuitive to implement but I still like it, especially the general idea of a grunt realizing his commander matters more than him and sacrificing himself to save the other guy. Not to be a rules lawyer or anything but do you have any rule references to back this up? Look out Sir fluff mentions that one of the things that could be happening is a soldier is diving in front of the IC, but also mentions that they could be hiding amongst his men and getting lost in the crowd. Also most people do not take fluff very seriously when it comes to determining the mechanics of the game (I know of no one who allows night scythe's Tesla Destructor to count as turret mounted because the fluff says it is).
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Mar 3, 2013 23:02
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mmj posted:I don't want to know what my own goddamn hive mind thinks, I love that the only psyker that might have ever touched the hive mind without being reduced to a gibbering lunatic was the emperor at the peak of his power. Nah, if you're an Ultramarine psyker it's OK to touch the Hive Mind.
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Mar 3, 2013 23:02
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Say what you want about the design of the new Skull Cannons, their fluff is loving badass:quote:Those who die instantly as the engine rumbles over them can be counted the most fortunate of its victims. Others, crippled and broken, are fed screaming into the Skull Cannon's gaping maw, there to be roasted by daemonic fire and ground into fragments. Most of the remains are ejected at the Skull Cannon's rear in a red wake of bone splinters and blood. Only the skulls are retained, fleshless and scorched, but otherwise whole. They are infused with the Blood God's endless and abiding wrath until their empty eye sockets weep blood and their slack jaws gibber with rage. Only then, with an echoing boom, does the cannon discharge its payload. The skulls catch fire as they are launched, and roar with evil laughter as they fly. They slam into enemy ranks, burning them from cover and leaving a trail of scorched and blazing dead.
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Mar 3, 2013 23:03
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JesusIsTehCool posted:Not to be a rules lawyer or anything but do you have any rule references to back this up? Look out Sir fluff mentions that one of the things that could be happening is a soldier is diving in front of the IC, but also mentions that they could be hiding amongst his men and getting lost in the crowd. Also most people do not take fluff very seriously when it comes to determining the mechanics of the game (I know of no one who allows night scythe's Tesla Destructor to count as turret mounted because the fluff says it is). Sorry, I don't right now. I lent my rule book to a friend trying to get him into the hobby. Someone else here that knows more than me will come to the thread shortly though
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Mar 3, 2013 23:05
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AgentF posted:Say what you want about the design of the new Skull Cannons, their fluff is loving badass: Unfortunately this just brings bad memories of Lost Souls from Doom. Has anyone done a Doom-themed Chaos army?
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Mar 3, 2013 23:06
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mmj posted:Sorry, I don't right now. I lent my rule book to a friend trying to get him into the hobby. Someone else here that knows more than me will come to the thread shortly though The wounds can be transferred to models out of range or los because the rules for Look Out, Sir on page 16 say so. Cover saves cannot be taken against those wounds because cover saves are determined when the wound is initially allocated, as stated under the heading "Determining Cover Saves" on page 18.
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Mar 3, 2013 23:11
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Bob Smith posted:Has anyone done a Doom-themed Chaos army? Yes.    https://picasaweb.google.com/100059515749203595775/DOOM
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Mar 3, 2013 23:11
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Phyresis posted:The wounds can be transferred to models out of range or los because the rules for Look Out, Sir on page 16 say so. Cover saves cannot be taken against those wounds because cover saves are determined when the wound is initially allocated, as stated under the heading "Determining Cover Saves" on page 18. So I got a rule right in this edition? Someone is ice skating in hell right now.
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Mar 3, 2013 23:39
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So can you really only take a single Herald if taken as an allies choice? I wanted to run 7 exalted seeker chariots as my allies 
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Mar 3, 2013 23:42
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You can run chariots without the Herald, they just come with an "Exalted Alluress" instead. Edit: I suppose I may have to learn how Chariots work now that they're in the army. I have absolutely no clue what their intended role is. Are they meant for buffing characters like the old C:D chariots basically did? AgentF fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 00:13
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Hey guys, I just got into 40k via the DV box and have a few questions. I actually got the box because I used to paint minis a long time ago and wanted to get back into it, but now I'm thinking about diving into the game portion as well. I've been painting the Dark Angels from the box and was wondering what I should get next if I wanted to make a decent DA list. I don't need a mix/maxed tourney list, just something playable that I can customize later. For what it's worth, I really like the Deathwing Knights and dreadnought models and would probably use them, unless someone says they're terrible and a waste of money. Also, what about the DV box stuff? Will it serve as a good backbone to an army or are some parts not so good? Work is sort of busy right now so I haven't had the time to go to a local game store and actually learn how to play, which is why I really don't know where to go next when I'm done with DV. I guess the question boils down to: what sort of advice does a newbie need to know when building an army so there aren't any glaring holes in it? Things like how many shooty guys, how many assault guys, how many vehicles, air support, etc that may be obvious to someone familiar to the game.
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Mar 4, 2013 00:14
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That's better than I could have imagined.
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Mar 4, 2013 00:14
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Implementor posted:Hey guys, I just got into 40k via the DV box and have a few questions. I actually got the box because I used to paint minis a long time ago and wanted to get back into it, but now I'm thinking about diving into the game portion as well. I've been painting the Dark Angels from the box and was wondering what I should get next if I wanted to make a decent DA list. I don't need a mix/maxed tourney list, just something playable that I can customize later. For what it's worth, I really like the Deathwing Knights and dreadnought models and would probably use them, unless someone says they're terrible and a waste of money. Also, what about the DV box stuff? Will it serve as a good backbone to an army or are some parts not so good? The DV box is a good start, although I wouldn't get another one. I would pick up the Knights if you like the models (they are solid options and I run them most game) and look on ebay for another group of DV tact marines you should have around 20 with a small army. I strongly recommend some vehicles, a rhino or razorback. Eventually you might want to look at one of the Landraiders for your knights. Normally I think Landraiders are too costly, but with the invul save you can get them they become that much harder to pop and make the 4+ invul save bubble big enough to get lots of your other vehicles in it. I would pass on air support from the DA codex, and when your ready look at your allies for that. IG and vanilla have better options than DV does. The Ravenwing Knights are also very good so you might want to look at them. My personal favorite is a group of devastators with 4 plasma cannons and a Librarian casting Prescience on them. Dreadnoughts are not super strong units, but if you like that way they look on the table then use them, they aren't so bad that they can't be fun. Although before buying a lot of models go into the games workshop or hobby shop near you and find someone (or find a goon in this thread near you) to teach you the game in person. Mess around, use some proxies, and find out what you like and dislike.
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Mar 4, 2013 00:50
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AgentF posted:You can run chariots without the Herald, they just come with an "Exalted Alluress" instead. The exalted seeker chariots do d6 rending Hammer of Wrath hits for each hull point they have for 75 points. In other words, a 3 model squadron costs 225 points and if you don't strip some hull points does 12d6 rending hits at I10 on the charge. They're purchasable as a ride for heralds, but it seems like if you do that, they'd be on their own.
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Mar 4, 2013 00:56
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Is there any chance that GW will be running more global events ala Storm of Chaos and the 13th Black Crusade? I remember playing in fantasy in storm of chaos years ago and it was the best. I know they always bring a lot of drama with them, but have GW made it clear they'll do more of them?
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Mar 4, 2013 01:50
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Baruch Obamawitz posted:The exalted seeker chariots do d6 rending Hammer of Wrath hits for each hull point they have for 75 points. In other words, a 3 model squadron costs 225 points and if you don't strip some hull points does 12d6 rending hits at I10 on the charge. The only bad thing about them is how fragile they are, both the chariots themselves and the riders. Still fun to take, and I have a bunch of slaanesh chariots built that I'm going to have to paint soon. In an allied army you can only take one herald/slot. So you can only do... 1 HQ chariot, 1 fast chariot, and 3 heavy chariots. Double that for the 2000+ points. In a normal army it's 8 HQ slots are individual (though you *might* be able to take them in a huge unit if you read the designer notes wrong), 3 fast, and 9 fast. 40 total chariots in a 2000+ point game!
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Mar 4, 2013 02:06
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JesusIsTehCool posted:The DV box is a good start, although I wouldn't get another one. I would pick up the Knights if you like the models (they are solid options and I run them most game) and look on ebay for another group of DV tact marines you should have around 20 with a small army. I strongly recommend some vehicles, a rhino or razorback. Eventually you might want to look at one of the Landraiders for your knights. Normally I think Landraiders are too costly, but with the invul save you can get them they become that much harder to pop and make the 4+ invul save bubble big enough to get lots of your other vehicles in it. I would pass on air support from the DA codex, and when your ready look at your allies for that. IG and vanilla have better options than DV does. The Ravenwing Knights are also very good so you might want to look at them. My personal favorite is a group of devastators with 4 plasma cannons and a Librarian casting Prescience on them. Dreadnoughts are not super strong units, but if you like that way they look on the table then use them, they aren't so bad that they can't be fun. Thanks, this is exactly the kind of advice I'm looking for. I'm not planning on going too crazy before learning the game--I plan on doing so when work dies down a bit and I have time to go to my LGS--but when I'm done painting my DV models I want to get some that will also serve well if/when I play. Thanks for the advice!
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Mar 4, 2013 02:06
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Sardine Wit posted:Is there any chance that GW will be running more global events ala Storm of Chaos and the 13th Black Crusade? Anthony Reynolds is back in some capacity, so clearly anything's possible. Hell, if they see some money in something they'll go for it, whatever it is. They'd probably sell crack but the margins are lower.
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Mar 4, 2013 02:08
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I don't really know what possible connection Tyranids could have to either the Old Ones or the C'tan or any of that. They weren't even in the galaxy (possibly didn't even exist) at that point and there has never been any implication that the Tyranids had any involvement with that chunk of plot at all. They want to eat faces, that's it.Phyresis posted:Prescience is only 12" range so trying to position the Herald and Heldrake to take advantage of it is going to be quite awkward. It seems entirely unnecessary when the Heldrake already has the Daemonforged ability to use one time, when it matters. Not that you would ever take the hades autocannon over a baleflamer. I have been running a single Hades Heldrakes recently to go with the two Baleflamer ones in my tournament list, since it's a good anti-air platform. Gotta have something to shoot down those enemy Heldrakes and Vendettas. Phyresis posted:The wounds can be transferred to models out of range or los because the rules for Look Out, Sir on page 16 say so. Cover saves cannot be taken against those wounds because cover saves are determined when the wound is initially allocated, as stated under the heading "Determining Cover Saves" on page 18.
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Mar 4, 2013 02:21
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AbusePuppy posted:
Yes, I beleive this is correct. There's a whole step written about how to deal with Look out Sir for models with different saves. Whether the other models save is from armour, cover or invulnerable is kinda irrelevant. You roll the look out sir roll before rolling a save then you allocate the wound then roll the save for the allocated model. The only times you would roll the armour save before the look out sir roll is if the character and the unit had the same save. Cataphract fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 03:14
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AbusePuppy posted:I don't really know what possible connection Tyranids could have to either the Old Ones or the C'tan or any of that. They weren't even in the galaxy (possibly didn't even exist) at that point and there has never been any implication that the Tyranids had any involvement with that chunk of plot at all. They want to eat faces, that's it. That assumes that the Old Ones or the C'tan were also only ever in this galaxy.
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Mar 4, 2013 04:33
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Fix posted:That assumes that the Old Ones or the C'tan were also only ever in this galaxy. The fluff for old ones and c'tan basically have them fighting for control of our galaxy before the other races were even starting to evolve from single called organisms.although it's never explicitly stated they were Milky Way bound, there was never any suggestion that they wherein other galaxies. Hell the C'tan went dormant to dodge old ones, if they could hop over to the andromeda galaxy and repopulate why wouldn't they do that and come back in force? It's not impossible in the current fluff but it seems unlikely. Given the mind bogging distance between galaxies and the fact that tyranids never had warp travel to break the rules of space and time, it seems unlikely. The gravity corridors made by the narwhal ships can only do so much to speed travel, and they get more effective as they get closer to the target gravity well. Intergalactic travel is basically covered in the fluff as the ships accelerating to max speed and hibernating for the entire trip, none of the 40k races still alive have another explanation for it. That being said, if the fluff changes significantly your explanation will probably be dead on. It won't be the old ones making tyranids because they were powerful psykers like the eldar and would see the c'tan and necrons becoming non-organic and avoided by tyranids. Since the old ones started encouraging the development of other races in the galaxy to fight it is probably the c'tan that would look elsewhere for a biomass obsessed alien feeding frenzy. Now that I type this out, changing the fluff of tyranids to be the c'tan's version of the soviet "hand from the grave" or dead hand MAD isn't terrible, I could get behind that. Dead hand is one of my favorite/scariest parts of Cold War history, along with the soviet radar operator that avoided nuclear war by waiting to report radar signatures that ended up being a hardware issue. If he had called it in, the world probably would have turned into a radioactive wasteland. Wikipedia says his name is Stanislav Yevgrafovich Petrov. /end Cold War derail, that stuff just really interests me mmj fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 05:17
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