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Rockopolis posted:I got the impression that Adept/Hacker is a decent mix, crunch-wise, because you end up mixing karma-hungry and nuyen-hungry archetypes, so you're not short on one resource and flush with another? Adept/Hacker outclasses all but extremely-high karma Technomancers for matrix skills. Basically there are very few non-RP reasons to NOT play an adept of some sort, they are just so cheap and good at whatever you need them to do.
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Mar 1, 2013 23:20
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I generally understood that adept/hacker wasn't that great a mix because there's little connection between them. Adept simply doesn't have much if anything that helps hacking. Edit: Unless you go for something very specific like Mind Over Matter! Really, adept is less then useful unless you're already planning a 'ware light build. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Mar 2, 2013 |
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Mar 2, 2013 00:38
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Oh, I was thinking of it more in terms of versatility, but yeah, I imagine a specialized Adept Hacker could kick rear end. Fluff-wise, I was thinking of it because I was still trying to figure out motivation, and I keep thinking of something like a My current regular is only down ~2 Essence, and that's not even an Essence optimized build. Speaking of Foci, are there any rules on something like a rope dart Foci, for ranged attacks? Too much cheese? Or even a flying claw, it can double as a grappling hook. Oh, better yet, a flying guillotine!
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Mar 2, 2013 01:33
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ProfessorCirno posted:I generally understood that adept/hacker wasn't that great a mix because there's little connection between them. Adept simply doesn't have much if anything that helps hacking. Improved skill (non combat) computers. If you're willing to focus your hacking there's some truly absurd hacker adept builds out there. EDIT: To make this a less useless nuh-uh post Metatype:Ork (20BP) Positive Qualities: Adept, Restricted Gear 1 Attributes: 230 BP (155BP physical, 65BP special) (Yes Logic 1 for a hacker is super cheesy, but I wanted a minimal point spend for this example.) BOD:4 AGI:2 REA:4 STR:2 CHA:3 INT:6 LOG:1(3) WIL:4 Edge: 3 Initiative: 10 Magic: 4 essence: 4.05 Cyberware: Datajack(A), Encephalon Rt 2, Math SPU(A), Cerebral Booster 2, PuSHeD Skills: 82 Electronics Group 4 Hacking 6 (exploit) Cybercombat 4 Nuyen - 160,000 (37 BP) Use RG1 to pick up a truly absurd hacking commlink, I reccomend the Singularity Battle Buddy if you can convince your GM to let stuff from War! in, otherwise just use RG to put response 6 or 7 on a Fairlight I guess. The 32 bp spent here will let you pick up a Battle Buddy (not a basic, an actual battle buddy) with rating six firewall and system ratings, as well as rating 6 exploit, stealth, analyze, command, edit, encrypt, purge, scan, and a reality filter along with the cyberware. Adept Powers Improved Ability: Non-Combat - Computer lv2 Improved Ability: Non-Combat - Cybercombat (lol) lv2 Improved Ability: Non-Combat - Hacking lv3 2.25 adept power points remain, to be spent depending on how you branch out. Personally I tend to go for a face, since improved ability noncombat remains just as cheesy there and I have plenty of PP, though you could always pump drive groundcraft for the adept hacker/rigger. This build leaves you with 32 BP and 2.25PP to customize and hasn't used any negative qualities, potentially giving you 67 bp to dick around with. More then enough to add a competent secondary role. It also has the advantage of using nothing but totally legal adept powers and cyberware, leaving your primary commlink as your only street-illegal item, and everyone should have a few decoys of those anyway. EDIT2: Derped hacking vs computers. Babby Formed fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Mar 2, 2013 |
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Mar 2, 2013 01:52
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Rockopolis posted:I got the impression that Adept/Hacker is a decent mix, crunch-wise, because you end up mixing karma-hungry and nuyen-hungry archetypes, so you're not short on one resource and flush with another? Mystic Adept is the one that gets you astral stuff, right? Stretches you in too many directions. Go straight Adept or Magician, don't try to do both. The hacking rules make my brain hurt, but Improved Skill is really good in general. Go with cheap Adept powers and a lower Magic. You can also fit a lot of fun stuff into a single Essence point as a Mage while only being a die or two down on a "pure" one. Besides, buff spells don't need that many hits, you know? Once you get some nuyen out of chargen, slap a Force 3 Improved Reflexes on a spell sustaining focus and be more gunbunny than gunbunny.
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Mar 2, 2013 02:19
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It's more that even just that one point of Magic costs a lot if you're going gungho with the 'ware.
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Mar 2, 2013 02:53
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ProfessorCirno posted:It's more that even just that one point of Magic costs a lot if you're going gungho with the 'ware.
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Mar 2, 2013 15:50
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The logic of SR4 never ceases to amaze me. The wireless world was a simply terrible idea from a gameplay stance. Why even go on runs anymore? Just hack from your house and win the game.
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Mar 2, 2013 15:58
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Bigass Moth posted:The logic of SR4 never ceases to amaze me. The wireless world was a simply terrible idea from a gameplay stance. Why even go on runs anymore? Just hack from your house and win the game. Eh, you could always used closed networks. I switched to this for a lot of corp runs when the hacker tried to be the 'run everything from the van six miles away' type of douche. I had an idea for a build. It's basically a Magician Adept formori of the psionic tradition who magic simply doesn't work on. Take a bunch of counter spelling, sorcerous parry, and just go out using all my neato brain powers to make mobs of people kill each other. Feasible at all?
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Mar 2, 2013 16:44
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Screw the unwired matrix — that part is easy to get around using actual logic rather than computer-design-according-to-RPG-maker ignorance. The real problem with SR4 is this:Swags posted:I had an idea for a build. It's basically a Magician Adept formori of the psionic tradition who magic simply doesn't work on. Take a bunch of counter spelling, sorcerous parry, and just go out using all my neato brain powers to make mobs of people kill each other. Feasible at all?  <grumpy rant> In SR5, the best thing that could ever happen is that all tehcnoadepts and technomancers suffer Mage-style paradox and self-combust. Horribly and painfully. Oh, and that the astral plane gets polluted enough that all drain codes go up by four or five stages (and is full of nasty things that will eat your soul if you try anything fancy anyway). What made shadowrun awesome was that, yes, the mage could probably put a whateverbolt in the guy, but why bother? You might as well shoot him and save yourself the nosebleed (to say nothing of making it a much lesser crime). </grumpy rant>
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Mar 2, 2013 17:24
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Bigass Moth posted:The logic of SR4 never ceases to amaze me. The wireless world was a simply terrible idea from a gameplay stance. Why even go on runs anymore? Just hack from your house and win the game. You have to be in mutual signal range for most of the good stuff.
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Mar 2, 2013 17:26
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Piell posted:You have to be in mutual signal range for most of the good stuff. Given that doors, security systems, et al. could not be accessible through the Matrix and a hacker would have to literally walk up to them to get into range, this made the wireless hacker more of akin to the AD&D Thief, in which they had all these options available to them, instead of sitting in their apartment and having the rest of the team wait while they're breaking ICE so they can open a electronically-actuated deadbolt.
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Mar 2, 2013 18:47
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Every time I read someone complain about the wireless matrix vs the old matrix, I just know that the root cause of that complaint is bad GMing and not the ruleset. The core book points out plenty of ways that a network could be inaccessible from the matrix at large, yet "derp you never need to leave home" remains the #1 complaint I've read over and over regarding 4e. I mean, even if you rule out signal 0 networks, faraday cages, and wifi inhibiting paint/wallpaper, it takes a really bad GM to keep on letting their (presumably) squishy hacker operate on their own without some backup should anyone run a successful trace on them.
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Mar 2, 2013 19:52
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Bigass Moth posted:The logic of SR4 never ceases to amaze me. The wireless world was a simply terrible idea from a gameplay stance. Why even go on runs anymore? Just hack from your house and win the game. Five days a week I use an RFID card to get through one electronic dead bolt and then a second time on an automated door that locks itself down to block unauthorized access, while being observed by a CCTV camera. Once inside I have access to two overlapping wireless networks, one isolated for guest use and one that's part of the main network my desktop is wired into. In another part of the building is a third wireless network just for the IT guys. My same RFID pass card gets tied into the payment service in the cafeteria. Some parts of the building aren't accessible with my card, but if I needed to get into them all I'd need to do is wait for the security guys to update the permissions on the closed security network that connects to every reader in the building. On my way home everyday I stop to get coffee. I pay for this coffee using my smartphone, and then sit in the cafe for a few minutes using their wifi to check my email and download a book. Then I get back into my car and stream a podcast over a cell network so to listen on my car radio, via Bluetooth. The only thing that amazes me is that people still can't get their heads around what is, frankly, the world they're living in now. E: Also I posted this from my tablet on my home network, and am editing it from my phone while I get gas. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 2, 2013 20:05
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Yeah, there's enough rules for gm to actually prevent any kind of player type from prospering if the gm bother enough to use those obscure optional/rare/lore-detail rules and piece them together.  Same for the Magician Adept formori, 400 bp char just cannot become anti-everything, there's always some weak points for gm to gut you down or block you up with. Working at a team to cover each others' weakness however... somewhat helps, still doesn't cover up the gazillion ways that a gm can counter your char's concept/strength. Edit: But yeah, the rule is a vague mess most of the time.
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Mar 2, 2013 20:07
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Super Rad posted:Every time I read someone complain about the wireless matrix vs the old matrix, I just know that the root cause of that complaint is bad GMing and not the ruleset. The core book points out plenty of ways that a network could be inaccessible from the matrix at large, yet "derp you never need to leave home" remains the #1 complaint I've read over and over regarding 4e. IDGI. 
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Mar 2, 2013 22:35
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Tippis posted:IDGI. It is different, and therefore must be feared & despised 
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Mar 2, 2013 23:32
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Going to be very interesting about the accuracy rules for guns, feels like it's going to make the game a lot less lethal at the lower guns level (basically, you can't use more hits then your Accuracy of the weapon. (if you have 12 dice, with an accuracy 3 weapon, and get eight hits, you can't use more then 3 hits, unless you spend a point of Edge, which thankfully you can do post roll.
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Mar 3, 2013 02:19
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I'm not sure that's going to piss me off(as a TFR goon who actually knows and likes guns), or be enjoyable. Edit: Just to explain why, guns do not work that way. Yes, some guns are more accurate than others. But unless your gun is made from bits of pipe in someone's garage, using only a grinder, a welder, and the ROUGHEST idea of how a gun works, that difference in accuracy doesn't normally make a massive difference. A shotgun firing buckshot? Still plenty effective 60 feet away. In fact, the shot is only going to have about 20 inches of spread from side to side. With slugs, 100 meters is well within reason. A rifle, even an inaccurate one, is very much capable of nailing an 8 inch circle a few hundred meters out. So having a goofy accuracy stat that limits how good you can be with hitting things(unless you're exceeding the mechanical accuracy, which is hilariously unlikely, and is more a factor of the effective range of the round and weapon in question) has some pretty serious potential to be annoying. TL;DR guns don't work that way. At all. It's all a function of measurable physical effects, and there's very little difference. A plain old bold action rifle is only one or two steps away from a full on sniper. MohawkSatan fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 04:08
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While doing the On The Run campaign, I noticed how woefully unopportunistic my fellow runners can be. So we are on the Loomis Arc, after beating the poo poo out of his gang of thugs and a Shangri La Strike Team. During an interrogation, I decided to try and extort the guy out of his cred stick since given the sheer curbstomp we did to his gang at the Coda we can pressure him for some extra nuyen. We patted him down for the disk but when we found some credsticks, the guy didn't keep them. Good Nuyen lost I say. I mean in the world of Shadowrun, if I just saw a bunch of men and women shoot my personal bodyguard with a cybergun for an arm and his chummers with little trouble followed by the sheer ruthlessness displayed at the gunfight. I will be in no position to Negotiate. How opportunistic is your runner?
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Mar 3, 2013 11:10
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Tippis posted:That complaint particularly makes no sense in light of the fact that never leaving home was how the smart deckers operated in SR1-3. It used to be: find a good bunker, microlink it across to the next city block, jump five satellites, and then hack in where you want. How is that any different than what SR4 offers and how are GMs any less capable of forcing deckers on-site than they were? Well, apart from their being much harder to trace to their physical location in the old days… Call me old fashioned but I think hacking should be connecting via datajack to a giant cyberdeck, not getting into range of a system and hacking it wirelessly with no need for cyberware or technology of any kind to guide you.
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Mar 3, 2013 13:14
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Bigass Moth posted:Call me old fashioned but I think hacking should be connecting via datajack to a giant cyberdeck, not getting into range of a system and hacking it wirelessly with no need for cyberware or technology of any kind to guide you. This is old fashioned, yes, since I've personally seen someone hack into another person's network with his iPhone.
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Mar 3, 2013 13:21
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Swags posted:This is old fashioned, yes, since I've personally seen someone hack into another person's network with his iPhone. Which is the big problem and the big disconnect. As fond as I am of super-80's alternate future stuff, the fact is, its barely alternate "future" at this point. Gibson-esque cyberpunk is dying fast, if not already dead. What's the color of a tv turned to a dead channel? I think the best way to do it is what 4e did - main core book assumes current timeline wifi and all, splat (that ideally comes soon after) converts it to an older timeline.
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Mar 3, 2013 13:42
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MohawkSatan posted:TL;DR guns don't work that way. At all. It's all a function of measurable physical effects, and there's very little difference. A plain old bold action rifle is only one or two steps away from a full on sniper. Anyway, it sounds like they're taking their cues from computer games this time around: bad gun = low (capped) damage, no matter how well you aim. It really has that air of turn-of-the-century FPSes where Gun A did 75hp damage to the head, 50hp to the chest and 25hp to the limbs; whereas gun B did 110/90/70… and so on. Granted, killing people by shooting them in the head with a small pistol has always been curiously difficult in SR, but if that's how they're doing it in SR5, it's getting downright silly.
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Mar 3, 2013 15:13
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What a beautiful blue sky!
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Mar 3, 2013 15:27
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ProfessorCirno posted:Which is the big problem and the big disconnect. As fond as I am of super-80's alternate future stuff, the fact is, its barely alternate "future" at this point. Gibson-esque cyberpunk is dying fast, if not already dead. What's the color of a tv turned to a dead channel? I was never a matrix guy, but taking away cyberdecks was as about as anti-Shadowrun as you could get other than combining Mages and Shamans into one class. The line developers since SR2 have not done a great job of keeping Shadowrun in the mold it was intended to represent, but that's just my opinion.
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Mar 3, 2013 16:33
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I think I read SR2 when I was about 14 and I skipped SR3 entirely. The first game I ran was SR4. I never had any disconnect moments - I always felt like I was playing a cyberpunk elfgame. So I can't speak to whether or not SR4 is a badwrong Shadowrun representation. I can say that the wireless world did result in people increasingly trying to stay home rather than run. Yes, if you try to work a run on a major corp facility, they have closed systems and wireless paint and stuff like that. What about stealing cars? What about hacking into smaller facilities, factories, corner stores, nightclubs? Things like that? The cloud-like nature of the Matrix definitely inhibits some stories and it often resulted in my hacker disappearing into a bubble of downtime to handle all his poo poo. There's a problem in there somewhere, and it requires a lot of effort on the GMs part to keep it from eating up too much time. I mean when one of the most common solutions I see to the 'hacking problem' is, "have an NPC do it", that's indicative of something.
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Mar 3, 2013 17:30
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Mendrian posted:I think I read SR2 when I was about 14 and I skipped SR3 entirely. The first game I ran was SR4. The thing is that the decker in older editions was even worse about the stay-at-home and go into a bubble in downtime stuff. I also refer you to Super Rad's previous post - yes, in some cases a fully remote hacker can steal you a car. But keep in mind that the people in the universe are aware of this too, and take basic precautions. In the modern world the best advice for "how do I keep this from being hacked" is "don't put it on a network," and that's only going to be more true in an SR future. Often, if you want to hack a car or a door you need to be close to it. And really, what's so wrong about the remote hacker idea anyways? There's plenty of ways to threaten characters in other locales. And if the 'run can be done purely by hacking, it shouldn't be a run. Do more extractions/kidnappings, retrieval or planting of physical things, etc. Jobs that include things that can't be handled by pure remote data manipulation. If you want to include pure hacking adventures then tell your players you're running that kind of game and make sure everyone has some hacking ability. If you don't and someone makes a phys adept gun-fu master with simsense vertigo and would just have to sit in the corner all session, that's not the fault of the setting or the rules. That's your fault. (The fact that decking and hacking is a giant clusterfuck better left to an NPC for the sake of everyone's sanity, or in SR4 can be accomplished equally well by a hacker-in-a-box program suite? Yeah, that's the rules fault. But that's true whether you go wired or wireless.) If you don't like wireless for flavor reasons, that's fine - though that means ignoring pretty much all of the cyberpunk and post-cyberpunk works since Snow Crash and even that's got some wireless. But saying that wireless negates runs or is any less "realistic" or silly than big decks and data jacks is frankly insulting to everyone's intelligence. It's purely a flavor preference and pretending its anything else is rose-colored nostalgia glasses at best. At worst, it's the SR equivalent of saying D&D edition X is video game Y, or that D&D edition X is too ~anime~. Comrade Gorbash fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Mar 3, 2013 |
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Mar 3, 2013 17:57
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To add on to the Comrade's well-placed words, if all you have to say about a new edition is 'Oh teh noes, CHANGE! Teh banez of my existence!" Maybe it's best that you don't play the new edition and not talk about it. Thumper's Law and all. I mean, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism of an edition--any edition--but frankly it gets a little out of hand when you have nothing to say about how "This fundamentally changes the game and it's not the same thing anymore and it's terrible BAWWWWW!" I've played SR 2-4, and I'm greatly looking forward to trying out 5 this summer. Every edition brings something new and interesting to the table, and FASA/Catalyst have done a great job of making the updates make sense. Every edition has been an improvement, and I don't foresee that trend ending anytime soon. Of course, I still foresee far too many people whining about how 5th edition changed the game so fundamentally that it's not Shadowrun anymore and change is bad BAWWWWW... But who knows? I could be wrong.
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Mar 3, 2013 18:35
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Tippis posted:…then again, has there ever been a SR firearms ruleset that hasn't required Stangely enough, I found fourth wasn't too bad. And I can easily understand the damage cap, considering the magic of street sams with APDS and HMGs chewing up tanks(or hilariously, in the case of one of my players, a full on naval destroyer) in 4th.I'm on the fence about it, but either way, it's not like it's going to stop me from playing shadowrun.
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Mar 3, 2013 19:30
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Comrade Gorbash posted:If you don't like wireless for flavor reasons, that's fine - though that means ignoring pretty much all of the cyberpunk and post-cyberpunk works since Snow Crash and even that's got some wireless. But saying that wireless negates runs or is any less "realistic" or silly than big decks and data jacks is frankly insulting to everyone's intelligence. It's purely a flavor preference and pretending its anything else is rose-colored nostalgia glasses at best. At worst, it's the SR equivalent of saying D&D edition X is video game Y, or that D&D edition X is too ~anime~. Yeah, wireless hacking allows you to do Ghost In The Shell hacking of cybereyes and cyberlimbs (although you probably have to be using microdrones to do it) as well as a lot of the poo poo from the Watch Dogs game that's about to come out: pop out bollards to disable pursuit cars, manipulate trains to hop on them, sending static signals to people's cellphones to create distractions. Even how scripted those demos are, the basic gameplay should be studied because that's how a SR4+ hacker should act.
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Mar 3, 2013 19:31
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Lazy Bear posted:To add on to the Comrade's well-placed words, if all you have to say about a new edition is 'Oh teh noes, CHANGE! Teh banez of my existence!" Maybe it's best that you don't play the new edition and not talk about it. Thumper's Law and all. I mean, there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism of an edition--any edition--but frankly it gets a little out of hand when you have nothing to say about how "This fundamentally changes the game and it's not the same thing anymore and it's terrible BAWWWWW!" I've played SR 2-4, and I'm greatly looking forward to trying out 5 this summer. Every edition brings something new and interesting to the table, and FASA/Catalyst have done a great job of making the updates make sense. Every edition has been an improvement, and I don't foresee that trend ending anytime soon. I don't think anyone is saying these things though?
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Mar 3, 2013 22:26
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Bigass Moth posted:I was never a matrix guy, but taking away cyberdecks was as about as anti-Shadowrun as you could get other than combining Mages and Shamans into one class. The line developers since SR2 have not done a great job of keeping Shadowrun in the mold it was intended to represent, but that's just my opinion. You aren't really catching the problem though. I can't speak for mages and shamans, but how do you keep "alternate future" alongside "everything is analogue and wired?" Plugging decks into big megacomputers is cool to me because I grew up in the 90's and everyone thought the internet would become this bizarre virtual reality that you literally plug into with your brain. Like, check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9kFBcFPpe8 This was loving RADICAL when it first premiered. But it isn't really that radical anymore. We don't even use the word radical anymore. So I guess my challenge is this: how do you keep the "core" of Shadowrun while also not falling into a "for the old fans only" niche? How do you remain sci-fi enough to continue getting new fans if your alternate future game uses long discarded technology? Or to put it another way, a question I think a lot of cyberpunk has been asking itself: how do you keep the genre relevant? Now, interestingly enough, the devs have already said that cyberdecks and "deckers" will indeed be making a return - just retooled to work with the wireless matrix. How precisely it will work hasn't been revealed yet, so wait and see, I guess. Edit: Seriously check this video out Edit 2: Jesus loving christ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkzF56tGYSg ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 00:46
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MohawkSatan posted:Stangely enough, I found fourth wasn't too bad. And I can easily understand the damage cap, considering the magic of street sams with APDS and HMGs chewing up tanks(or hilariously, in the case of one of my players, a full on naval destroyer) in 4th.I'm on the fence about it, but either way, it's not like it's going to stop me from playing shadowrun. Right, but that has more to do with the led-spraying side of “sci-fi writers have no sense of scale” and it's basically caused by the same thinking that made the matrix rules pants-on-head retarded from a real-world viewpoint. It was a nice head-on collision of the Pun-pun style of character building that SR4 allowed and its contradicting attempt at limiting the amounts of dice rolled (and giving things stats that have no business having stats). End result: PCs dealing out half a bajillion boxes of damage and hardened structures having to resist using only five dice…  SR1 did it properly: a hard-coded dope-slap to anyone who tried. SR2 made it a statistical impossibility: you had to roll a literal shedfull of dice to get enough sixes to outweigh the trivial target number the vehicle had to soak. SR3 tried to put mechanical dividers between different classes that scaled (and capped) damage as you went from one scale to another. SR4 (by design or through accident) ended up with anime-style super-heros slicing and dicing their way through the people, tanks and houses with equal ease because it imposed dice restrictions and then produced dozens of splat books full of rules on how to let players skip right past those restrictions. Granted, even SR2 allowed you to shoot down supposed The problem with the SR5 implementation is that it approaches the problem from the wrong direction. The capping should not be a feature of the weapon, but of the target. In your example, the destroyer soaking the damage should look at the HMG and say “yeah, of those attack dice you rolled, I'm going to skip over… all of them” and then go off and trivially, completely, and unopposed soak up any base damage that might be allowed to be counted just out of a sense of charity. If they want an accuracy stat, let it do what accuracy does: cancel out (or further reinforce) situational modifiers such as target movement or size or something. Making it a CounterStrike-type “hit quality” modifier is a downright horrible way of approaching things. ProfessorCirno posted:Now, interestingly enough, the devs have already said that cyberdecks and "deckers" will indeed be making a return - just retooled to work with the wireless matrix. How precisely it will work hasn't been revealed yet, so wait and see, I guess. Our group runs most of its gear wired already since the alternative only ever makes them ineffectual, but bright shining beacons of em radiation — three dozen gizmos broadcasting high-speed data, all off which fail the instant the corp goons flood the airwaves (which happens instantly since it's so easy to spot the nasty evil perps).
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Mar 4, 2013 01:31
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The actual relevant Matrix stuff they've saidquote:Okay, let me be clear on one thing right off the bat: This is going to take more than one post to cover everything going on with the Matrix. And one more video for the road on the note of the 90's! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLlj_GeKniA
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Mar 4, 2013 01:44
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Hey, how can you talk about cyberpunk hacking without http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p0jmewhXeU It's got basic ICE, an enemy hacker, and everything! Actually, speaking of the Matrix, are you guys looking forward to Shadowrun Online? I worry it might be a little too inflexible to do some of the batshit stuff that happens at the table. EDIT: Huh, looks like they're going to make regular hackers more like technomancers, then? Coding/customizing code on the fly, or something? I seem to recall the way we did hacking was to have it running in the same initiative order as everything else, just with enemies only the hacker can see. Like simultaneous combat in two locations, I guess. Rockopolis fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 01:50
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I think the two main goals are 1) make hacking NOT be an extended minigame for one player while everyone else sits on their hands or goes out for pizza, which is something that has plagued Shadowrun since forever, 2) make hacking easy to understand and not be a massive confusing slog, and 3) utilize the sort of "open endedness" of hacking to make hackers less "throw dice at The Computer to get The Files" and more "play with the environment around you because if everything is connected and you control that connection, poo poo's going to get crazy." Admittingly part of that might be wishful thinking on my behalf. I just want Watch Dogs: Tabletop Edition. Really though he's right in that hacking/decking has long been the most problematic part of the game, to the point where decker/hacker NPCs are easily the most common KIND of NPC. It's needlessly long, very needlessly complex, and ninety nine times out of a hundred all it equates to is "receive the MacGuffin." Hopefully they'll change it so that anyone could potentially make a decker, the rest of the party doesn't have to sit around and wait for "the decker game" to occur, and you can actually mess around and do coo"l poo poo in a firefight or out in the universe to tilt the odds in your favor so hacking feels like it contributes more then "Retrieve plot device. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Mar 4, 2013 |
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Mar 4, 2013 02:22
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It's times like this I regret missing out on all the Shadowrun kickstarters.
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Mar 4, 2013 02:31
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Noise is interesting, it surely would make the hacker want to move closer to the target assuming Noise affect the difficulty of the roll needed to succeed. I have to wonder if the 2050 book's rule is actually a rule test for the fifth edition. It has cyberdeck in it working for sr4 rule and have some wonderful rule fixes/tweek for magic while making each tradition works differently so that mage and shaman's same class problem is pretty much solved.
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Mar 4, 2013 02:50
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| # ? Jun 5, 2024 00:42 |
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ProfessorCirno posted:I think the two main goals are 1) make hacking NOT be an extended minigame for one player while everyone else sits on their hands or goes out for pizza, which is something that has plagued Shadowrun since forever, 2) make hacking easy to understand and not be a massive confusing slog, and 3) utilize the sort of "open endedness" of hacking to make hackers less "throw dice at The Computer to get The Files" and more "play with the environment around you because if everything is connected and you control that connection, poo poo's going to get crazy." Making a lot of their rules not a massive confusing slog would be a great goal- getting through just about any of their sections on the matrix, magic or general combat is exhausting. I'm holding out hope that the minis game they're testing might be something that leads to a more skirmish-y, fast paced ruleset. Otherwise, I feel like I'm going to want to convert Savage Worlds or something similar to run Shadowrun.
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Mar 4, 2013 06:40
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