The Order of the Stick: T-Rex, Troll Sex and Will Checks

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Colonel Cool: Dec 24, 2006

sebmojo posted:

Fair enough. How did you feel about Cryptogram Haley out of interest? I'd say they're both playing to a similar audience segment.

Oh huh. That's interesting. I hadn't thought of that before.

I guess I'll say that I didn't like the concept but it didn't grate nearly as much as Therkla did because Haley had some other personality to her and I was confident that she'd continue to develop as a character.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 01:03

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# ? May 25, 2024 23:37

Trapezium Dave: Oct 22, 2012

Tenebrais posted:

Wow, that strip really emphasises how important Durkon was to the team as a safety net. And a plot device, I guess. This turn not only beats him with the Character Development bat, it also increases the general peril in the story.

Durkon is the glue that kept the party together. As well as the cleric duties, he's usually the one who would talk to characters to resolve their issues. His death will make the group more dysfunctional which raises the stakes on an interpersonal level - which is going to be interesting to see play out.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 01:11

Toplowtech: Aug 31, 2004

jng2058 posted:

Durkon did not evolve. The penalty for that was death.

Yeah and Belkar told him to change his beard style. Well, i guess it's not practical to drink blood.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 01:28

Cliff Racer: Mar 24, 2007; by Lowtax

Colonel Cool posted:

Oh huh. That's interesting. I hadn't thought of that before.

I guess I'll say that I didn't like the concept but it didn't grate nearly as much as Therkla did because Haley had some other personality to her and I was confident that she'd continue to develop as a character.

Well cryptogram Haley only rarely had the plot around her and had the previous 150 or so strips to make people care about her. Therkla was obnoxious from start to finish. I'd even say she was worse than Miko's later appearances.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 01:55

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

e X posted:

But I'd say that Xykon, Tarquin, Redcloak and now Malak are outstanding in their characterization. The Giant really goes out of his way to explain why his villains act the way they do and as a result, we got some incredible unique, well developed antagonists. I once read somewhere, I think it was superhero related, that a good villain is more important to a story than a good hero, because your audience tends to identify with the hero by default, while you need to put some effort into selling the villain. This is definitely true for OotS. I don't dislike the Order, but what makes the story more than just your usual fantasy tropes parody comic are definitely the villains.

If anyone is curious, Rich wrote an essay laying out his step by step process for creating amazing villains

# ? Mar 5, 2013 02:05

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Fried Chicken posted:

If anyone is curious, Rich wrote an essay laying out his step by step process for creating amazing villains

Thanks for reminding me about this one, I will re-read it for the Traveller game I'm GMing at the moment.

^^^^ I thought Therkla was fine, but I can see why other people might not and I'd agree she was a little half-baked. It'll be interesting seeing where Rich goes with her prequel story.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 02:19

SirDan3k: Jan 6, 2001; Trust me, you are taking this a lot more seriously then I am.

They kinda explained Durkon's lack of character development in his death scene, he's already developed. He saw himself an old fatherly figure trying to look after what he sees as a bunch of messed up kids with good hearts so he apparently already had his grand life changing adventure before they got together.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 02:26

inthesto: May 12, 2010; Pro is an amazing name!

Fried Chicken posted:

If anyone is curious, Rich wrote an essay laying out his step by step process for creating amazing villains

Really, most of the advice in here can be used to create good characters in any kind of fiction.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 02:30

The Rooster: Jul 25, 2004; If you've got white people problems I feel bad for you son
I've got 99 problems but being socially privileged ain't one

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0836.html If Elan's great big plan depends on Durkons help, well it even work now? If Durkon spills the beans to Malack/Tarquin will Elan be forced to duel Tarquin on the palace steps?

# ? Mar 5, 2013 03:22

Colonel Cool: Dec 24, 2006

#878: Little Brother :siren:

# ? Mar 5, 2013 03:45

The Rooster: Jul 25, 2004; If you've got white people problems I feel bad for you son
I've got 99 problems but being socially privileged ain't one

Yeah, any sort of rules lwayering and theory crafting ignore the obvious answer of house-rules and custom spells/items.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 03:47

my dad: Oct 17, 2012; this shall be humorous

Colonel Cool posted:

#878: Little Brother

Yup, that sure is some evolution right there.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 03:48

oobey: Nov 19, 2002

Ah, the power of Rule Zero.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 03:51

Colonel Cool: Dec 24, 2006

Gourmet Chef is about to become the main course.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 03:51

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

I don't think D&D rules state anywhere that new vampires rise with an irrepressible thirst and will rush at the first mortal within sight, but I'd say it's a sufficiently well-established tradition in vampire fiction.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 03:55

rocketrobot: Jul 11, 2003

NihilCredo posted:

I don't think D&D rules state anywhere that new vampires rise with an irrepressible thirst and will rush at the first mortal within sight, but I'd say it's a sufficiently well-established tradition in vampire fiction.

And, you know, he just had a custom spell cast on him to accelerate his vampirism.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:10

Danzou: Oct 24, 2010; by angerbot

I think Malack's epiphany here means he possibly rose Durkon as a more free-willed vampire, to have him as an immortal colleague and not a child-thrall. Hell, Malack might let Durkon walk away - they have centuries to catch up, after all.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:11

oobey: Nov 19, 2002

Also, it's been established and stated time and again, and this is a nice reminder, that at this point OOTS is much more about telling a fantasy story than strict adherence to some external rule set.

Of course I shouldn't say that too loudly, lest the OOTS forums hear me.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:13

xcheopis: Jul 23, 2003

He even laid Durkon on his shield. Thoughtful!

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:17

Arbite: Nov 4, 2009

Amazing how he perfectly weaves excuses for DnD rule fudging into the text.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:21

DaveWoo: Aug 14, 2004; Fun Shoe

oobey posted:

Also, it's been established and stated time and again, and this is a nice reminder, that at this point OOTS is much more about telling a fantasy story than strict adherence to some external rule set.

Yeah, that's what I like most about OotS - Rich knows when to put the rulebook aside, and not do silly spergy things like, say, having a hit point counter tick down above the character's head as he is dying.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:22

Simian_Prime: Nov 6, 2011; When they passed out body parts in the comics today, I got Cathy's nose and Dick Tracy's private parts.

Awesome. Nothing like a good heel turn to liven up a dull protagonist. Durkula Lives!

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:27

rocketrobot: Jul 11, 2003

Simian_Prime posted:

Durkula

At least you didn't call him Alukrud.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:34

Danzou: Oct 24, 2010; by angerbot

DaveWoo posted:

Yeah, that's what I like most about OotS - Rich knows when to put the rulebook aside, and not do silly spergy things like, say, having a hit point counter tick down above the character's head as he is dying.

Check out this "sound effect" from the latest Erfworld:

I mean, really?

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:42

Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

So, uh, now the party is minus one cleric. That's kinda a problem.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:45

sebmojo: Oct 23, 2010; Legit Cyberpunk

Did anyone else have a sick feeling in their stomach before they clicked this one?

Danzou posted:

Check out this "sound effect" from the latest Erfworld:

I mean, really?

Rich had an 'AOO' sound effect back in the battle for Azure City. For, naturally, an attack of opportunity. But yeah, he knows when to handwave it.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:48

Morand: Apr 16, 2004; _{1: Start New Game

2: Start New Game

3: Start New Game}

Poor Durkon

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:49

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

Yikes.

Fried Chicken posted:

If anyone is curious, Rich wrote an essay laying out his step by step process for creating amazing villains

There's two things that jump out after reading that: The Fire King's achilles heel is his loyalty to those closest to him, including his half-elf sister. His plan involves the genocide of every other elf on the plane. There is a glaring problem here; did Rich ever say how/if that got addressed?

And how did he cast arcane spells in full plate, anyway? I had a character once who was a fighter/wizard prestige class (it had a lot to do with the setting and this isn't the thread for that story), and the best he could do was drop his fail chance somewhat, and getting mithril plate for him became a major campaign sidequest. I still mostly relied on wands.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:53

inthesto: May 12, 2010; Pro is an amazing name!

CapnAndy posted:

And how did he cast arcane spells in full plate, anyway? I had a character once who was a fighter/wizard prestige class (it had a lot to do with the setting and this isn't the thread for that story), and the best he could do was drop his fail chance somewhat, and getting mithril plate for him became a major campaign sidequest. I still mostly relied on wands.

Mithril and a one level dip in Spellsword from Complete Warrior gets you most of the way there. I think there's feats and equipment enchantments from various splatbooks that you can use to drag it down to near 0%.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 04:59

wdarkk: Oct 26, 2007; Friends: Protected
World: Saved
Crablettes: Eaten

CapnAndy posted:

Yikes.
There's two things that jump out after reading that: The Fire King's achilles heel is his loyalty to those closest to him, including his half-elf sister. His plan involves the genocide of every other elf on the plane. There is a glaring problem here; did Rich ever say how/if that got addressed?

Couldn't he just kill her, then true res her after the ritual?

# ? Mar 5, 2013 05:00

Pope Guilty: Nov 6, 2006; The human animal is a beautiful and terrible creature, capable of limitless compassion and unfathomable cruelty.

I only just now realized that this is a "Varsuuvius is androgynous" joke.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 05:03

CapnAndy: Feb 27, 2004; Some teeth long for ripping, gleaming wet from black dog gums. So you keep your eyes closed at the end. You don't want to see such a mouth up close. before the bite, before its oblivion in the goring of your soft parts, the speckled lips will curl back in a whinny of excitement. You just know it.

inthesto posted:

Mithril and a one level dip in Spellsword from Complete Warrior gets you most of the way there. I think there's feats and equipment enchantments from various splatbooks that you can use to drag it down to near 0%.

Spellsword! That was my prestige class! Adamantite is not mithril, though.

wdarkk posted:

Couldn't he just kill her, then true res her after the ritual?

I dunno, man, it's not my villain!

# ? Mar 5, 2013 05:04

ikanreed: Sep 25, 2009; I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

Toussaint Louverture posted:

So, uh, now the party is minus one cleric. That's kinda a problem.

Rule as DM: if you want a TPK, target the cleric. If you want a fight to drag on forever, kill the arcane casters.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 05:04

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

wdarkk posted:

Couldn't he just kill her, then true res her after the ritual?

No need. Just Plane Shift her and any other elvish friend out of the way, give them a scroll to come back.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 05:08

Bloodly: Nov 3, 2008; Not as strong as you'd expect.

quote:

Rule as DM: if you want a TPK, target the cleric. If you want a fight to drag on forever, kill the arcane casters.

...That's disconcerting. They really could all just die off here. Cleric's been turned, the arcanist is lost, and part of their offence is Dominated.

Bloodly fucked around with this message at 05:11 on Mar 5, 2013

# ? Mar 5, 2013 05:08

Evrart Claire: Jan 11, 2008

Toussaint Louverture posted:

So, uh, now the party is minus one cleric. That's kinda a problem.

Elan will have to step up and be more competent with his magic now, although they now lack any raise dead spells either way.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 05:16

NihilCredo: Jun 6, 2011; iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt

Bloodly posted:

...That's disconcerting. They really could all just die off here. Cleric's been turned, the arcanist is lost, and part of their offence is Dominated.

Yeah, unless Durkon is both free-willed and still intent on helping the OotS, I guess their best chance is probably for Tarquin & co. to run into Xykon's party and either derail or at least soften them up.

(Though to be fair, I wasn't really seeing them having a chance against "handily defeats epic wizards" Xykon in the first place, as opposed to "lets himself be beheaded and thrown by a bare-handed fighter" Xykon.)

# ? Mar 5, 2013 05:17

Eifert Posting: Apr 1, 2007; Most of the time he catches it every time.; Grimey Drawer

I could almost see Rich killing off all of the protagonists and making the rest of the strip about the antagonists vying for the gates. He clearly likes writing antagonists more than protagonists (that just may be his GM experience shining through though).

# ? Mar 5, 2013 05:20

ikanreed: Sep 25, 2009; I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

NihilCredo posted:

Yeah, unless Durkon is both free-willed and still intent on helping the OotS, I guess their best chance is probably for Tarquin & co. to run into Xykon's party and either derail or at least soften them up.

(Though to be fair, I wasn't really seeing them having a chance against "handily defeats epic wizards" Xykon in the first place, as opposed to "lets himself be beheaded and thrown by a bare-handed fighter" Xykon.)

Even lich casters don't have much defense against sunder attempts and grapple checks. A fighter half his level could easily do that.

# ? Mar 5, 2013 05:25

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# ? May 25, 2024 23:37

jng2058: Jul 17, 2010; We have the tools, we have the talent!

...well, poo poo. Okay, fangs over beard and character evolution all in one. Fair enough.

Gonna be tense seeing how this pans out. :suspense:

Oh, and if Belkar dies in the next page or two, we should pause for a moment and consider that Malack on his own killed off 1/3 of the Order. The best Xykon, Redcloak, and the entire hobgoblin army could do was one, and he got better!

# ? Mar 5, 2013 05:59

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