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Augmented Dickey posted:So why are they even there to start with? They've been dicking that concept around so long that they got bored, and or the lens design isn't finalized so they just goofed them up.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 03:29 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 03:14 |
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Volkswagen XL1 is neat to say the least, doubt if it will ever make it here though.... http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20130305-vw-xl1-by-the-numbers
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 03:39 |
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Pr0kjayhawk posted:It's not so much the Mezger specifically but the fact that the road-going GT3 had a direct lineage to their motorsport program. Most owners that track their GT3s appreciate the fact that it's same family of engine that is used in Porsche's competitive motorsport program. I don't give a poo poo who makes the engine or where it came from in my track car, I want to know that it's going to hold up on the track. Porsche need a DFI engine in the RSR if they want to be competitive with the 458 and next year's C7.R on fuel. So it will probably get one, but maybe not for another year. This year's GTE effort is more than a little pared back though, presumably because everyone's working on the LMP1 car.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 05:30 |
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 06:35 |
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Cool gauges, what car is that?
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 07:07 |
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http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-chevrolet-corvette-c7-supercharger-boost-gauge-news At 10psi, could be either turbo or supercharger, right? Though the lobe symbol implies blower, I guess.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 07:23 |
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Yeah, they wouldn't use that logo if it was anything other than a Roots blower.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 07:26 |
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AI posted:Alfa 4C lights They remind me of spiders
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 07:42 |
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IOwnCalculus posted:Yeah, they wouldn't use that logo if it was anything other than a Roots blower. Though I doubt this would happen, it would be really neat if the base Corvette had a Miller cycle motor.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 07:57 |
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http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/02/3d-printed-car/ 3-D Printed Car Is as Strong as Steel, Half the Weight, and Nearing Production quote:Picture an assembly line not that isn’t made up of robotic arms spewing sparks to weld heavy steel, but a warehouse of plastic-spraying printers producing light, cheap and highly efficient automobiles. Pretty neat technology, but I don't see it revolutionizing jack poo poo until they can get the printing time down.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 10:00 |
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And having a dashboard comprised entirely of one part just sounds bad when heater cores and wiring and stereos have to be removed.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 10:15 |
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oxbrain posted:http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/02/3d-printed-car/ TBH, it's a mindfuck it can be done at all. And yes, they will get the printing time down and this has all the hallmarks of a paradigm shift if that happens to the point where it becomes mass production viable, which I think the chances are good.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 10:24 |
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2500 hrs is the total time on a single printer, any production run would hopefully involve multiple printers. Little labour cost in the initial fabrication though as it's set running & left by itself, the labour will be in assembly. For a small run vehicle this is ideal as there are no initial tooling costs which in the conventional car industry are many tens of millions per model. This is a great first step if it makes it to market, 10 HP, 1200lbs on a motorcycle classification is a foot in the door & proof of concept. Don't expect Ford to print the next fusion but Tesla or TVR might experiment in this direction.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 11:21 |
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The 2500 hours is a total killer. Toyota makes over 250,000 corollas per year in the US alone, that would take over 71,000 machines running 24/7. Some of the newer machines have multiple heads, but even at 2-5x speed it's nowhere near reasonable for mass production. Even for small production stuff, the cost of the machine time is still really expensive. The machines used to print those large pieces are $300-400k. Even with no human interaction the machine will be a few bucks per hour just to pay for itself. A bumper that takes 200 hours might be $1500 worth of shop time and materials, not to mention engineering, prototypes, scrapped parts, etc. The cost of the machines might come down some, but not enough to be considered cheap. Supercars and expensive luxury cars maybe, but would those type of buyers go for an all plastic car?
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 12:14 |
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Cakefool posted:This is a great first step if it makes it to market, 10 HP, 1200lbs on a motorcycle classification is a foot in the door & proof of concept. Don't expect Ford to print the next fusion but Tesla or TVR might experiment in this direction. TVR was finally 'defunct' last year, in the worst automotive tragedy since Ayrton Senna. At 2500 hours, and my hourly rate, that machine costs more than I do per year. I think the wrong end of the market is developing this technology; super car manufacturers need to get involved so that it develops and the costs are absorbed. After 10 years it might be ready for mass market.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 12:30 |
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oxbrain posted:Supercars and expensive luxury cars maybe, but would those type of buyers go for an all plastic car? Describe it as "constructed from advanced aerospace- and space-grade composites" and they'll throw heaps of cash money at you.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 12:45 |
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I should point out that ABS will melt and boil into a highly flammable vapor when exposed to high heat say from a fuel fire or electrical short or a leaky exhaust pipe. Perfect fit for an italian supercar.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 13:18 |
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Yeah, I don't care how magically you shape it, unreinforced fused ABS is not really as "strong as steel." Also, the part where he says "maybe we'll stick some shock-absorbing parts in" and yet claims it will have "race-car safety" because there's a roll-cage. Conventional manufacturing could easily make a car that weighs 1,200 pounds for a fraction of the cost if you don't give a poo poo about safety. If I wanted a plastic city-car, I'd get whatever Gordon Murray's making. He has some fancy new injection-molding system where supposedly "80%" of the tooling is software. Except, no, I wouldn't even do that - I'd just take public transportation, because having a tiny, crappy, unsafe car that's bad on the highway makes it pretty worthless for long commuting, hauling, or trips, and thus is theoretically inferior to well-executed public transportation. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 14:28 on Mar 6, 2013 |
# ? Mar 6, 2013 14:19 |
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oxbrain posted:http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/02/3d-printed-car/ I think it will suffer the same problems as Gordon Murray's T25; car companies have a huge amount of money invested in making cars they way they do, they don't seem eager to throw that away for a radically different model, and no one else wants to put up the cash.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 15:18 |
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drgitlin posted:I think it will suffer the same problems as Gordon Murray's T25; car companies have a huge amount of money invested in making cars they way they do, they don't seem eager to throw that away for a radically different model, and no one else wants to put up the cash. Well, especially because it's not like car companies are raking in the profits for tiny city-cars. Cheap compact cars are, in general, not particularly profitable and are a volume-driven business. And most of the proposed plastic cars so far aren't particularly useful to scale up. The only place really tiny, cheap cars would fit in is third-world countries and, as the failure of the Tata Nano shows, over there anyone who can afford it buys a regular car and anyone on the fence buys a scooter or a motorcycle because it's way, way cheaper and there's usually not much of a middle-class (also, city cars do poorly on bad quality roads).
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 15:30 |
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It's a bad time to be trying to come up with a new production line/methodology for building cars, when there are so many incumbent car makers that are hard up for cash and willing to sell their designs and tooling to anyone to stay solvent. That's what the Chinese car makers have been doing hand over fist. Just buy up the design and tooling for that last gen Mazda6/Mitsubishi Galant/SAAB 9-3, maybe give it a minor cosmetic refresh and sell the thing for $13k. It's all legit and above-board, GM/Mazda/whoever can probably even send some people to help you set it up for the right price, the design and technology is all proven and off-the-shelf i terms of reliability, safety and emissions, etc. It's a lot easier/less risky than trying to come up with your own thing from scratch.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 16:13 |
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Yeah, even new entrants to the industry like Tesla and Fisker build their cars according to industry norms.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 16:44 |
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Would that 3D printed stuff be lighter than carbon fiber? Obviously you're not going to want to make an entire car out of it, but if you can get by using it for certain things (roof panels, etc), it could slow down the porkening of modern cars if a way to make it commercially viable is developed.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 17:16 |
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I think it's just regular ABS plastic, which is quite a bit denser than carbon fibre.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 17:23 |
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Cat Terrist posted:TBH, it's a mindfuck it can be done at all. And yes, they will get the printing time down and this has all the hallmarks of a paradigm shift if that happens to the point where it becomes mass production viable, which I think the chances are good. The 3D printing industry is getting a massive push right now. Obama mentioned it in the State of the Union: http://www.themanufacturinginstitute.org/Initiatives/Manufacturing-Innovation-Centers/Manufacturing-Innovation-Centers.aspx quote:In early 2012, President Obama proposed the development of a National Network for Manufacturing Innovation. This includes the funding of a pilot institute focused on additive manufacturing. The deadline for proposals for the pilot institute was June 14, 2012 and the selection is expected to be made by mid-August. http://manufacturing.gov/nnmi.html quote:Our first priority is making America a magnet for new jobs and manufacturing.. . Last year, we created our first manufacturing innovation institute in Youngstown, Ohio. A once-shuttered warehouse is now a state-of-the art lab where new workers are mastering the 3D printing that has the potential to revolutionize the way we make almost everything. There’s no reason this can’t happen in other towns. I heard about it on NPR's All Things Considered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRlAMrCnXtk I think it's far more likely that individual components will be 3D printed, say rocker panels or something simple. A subcontractor could spring up to make such things to sell to the traditional manufacturers, like car companies. Instead of buying a cast-metal part, they might source it from a "printer", depending on the engineering approval and cost. Or, not. I don't quite know yet how this will turn out but it's pretty exciting. anonumos fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Mar 6, 2013 |
# ? Mar 6, 2013 19:10 |
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:BIG GRIN: This looks... intriguing. ilkhan fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Mar 6, 2013 |
# ? Mar 6, 2013 19:39 |
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The advantage of 3D printing car parts is being able to have design targets allowed by construction techniques that are normally difficult, impossible, or extremely costly to produce for a road car. Body panels could be lighter and stronger is they were made with honeycombed metal, but the cost and difficulty vs. extra weight saved isn't worth it. Even if you can print off an ABS door with a honeycomb structure that is only comparable to a stamped steel door, you're most likely going to save money in tooling. Or in cases like a vehicle frame where you need to jam a bunch of metals together and weld, being able to print off a solid unit would allow you to design in a bunch of reinforcements that normally would be impractical with normal manufacturing techniques. Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Mar 6, 2013 |
# ? Mar 6, 2013 20:41 |
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Am I the only one that finds it annoying that the speedometer is small and off to the side while the rpms are right in the center?
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 21:18 |
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asmallrabbit posted:Am I the only one that finds it annoying that the speedometer is small and off to the side while the rpms are right in the center? Yes, you are.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 21:22 |
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asmallrabbit posted:Am I the only one that finds it annoying that the speedometer is small and off to the side while the rpms are right in the center? Like previous Corvettes there is a heads-up display, theoretically they could do away with the analog speedometer entirely.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 21:29 |
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asmallrabbit posted:Am I the only one that finds it annoying that the speedometer is small and off to the side while the rpms are right in the center? yeah
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 21:31 |
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I dislike speedometers that have a large range and small sweep, but I was thinking it must be complemented by a digital speedo in the center or something, plus I think it has a HUD. (Edit, yeah,)
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 21:33 |
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The center is a TFT display. It most definitely has a digital speedometer setting.asmallrabbit posted:Am I the only one that finds it annoying that the speedometer is small and off to the side while the rpms are right in the center? You're in the wrong place.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 21:35 |
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Laserface posted:And having a dashboard comprised entirely of one part just sounds bad when heater cores and wiring and stereos have to be removed. You just replace the whole car, obviously.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 21:47 |
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Laserface posted:And having a dashboard comprised entirely of one part just sounds bad when heater cores and wiring and stereos have to be removed. Well, if they're producing the part and assembling the other stuff inside of it, presumably they'd have access inside of it, yes?
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 22:44 |
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asmallrabbit posted:Am I the only one that finds it annoying that the speedometer is small and off to the side while the rpms are right in the center? Between HUD and the multi-mode digital main display, you'd be able to find something that works for you.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 22:55 |
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Throatwarbler posted:It's a bad time to be trying to come up with a new production line/methodology for building cars, when there are so many incumbent car makers that are hard up for cash and willing to sell their designs and tooling to anyone to stay solvent. That's what the Chinese car makers have been doing hand over fist. Just buy up the design and tooling for that last gen Mazda6/Mitsubishi Galant/SAAB 9-3, maybe give it a minor cosmetic refresh and sell the thing for $13k. It's all legit and above-board, GM/Mazda/whoever can probably even send some people to help you set it up for the right price, the design and technology is all proven and off-the-shelf i terms of reliability, safety and emissions, etc. It's a lot easier/less risky than trying to come up with your own thing from scratch. 3-D printing would be lept on by car companies because that would be the end of expensive to make and run presses and molds - they would long term reduce costs big time and make manufacturing much more flexible and quick to change. No more multi million presses and molds
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 23:03 |
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Muffinpox posted:The advantage of 3D printing car parts is being able to have design targets allowed by construction techniques that are normally difficult, impossible, or extremely costly to produce for a road car. Body panels could be lighter and stronger is they were made with honeycombed metal, but the cost and difficulty vs. extra weight saved isn't worth it. Even if you can print off an ABS door with a honeycomb structure that is only comparable to a stamped steel door, you're most likely going to save money in tooling. I think the biggest advantage we'll see in the near future from 3d printing will be in engine and driveline components. Small highly engineered components built to fine tolerances. Of course this isn't going to rely on ABS but focus more on laser sintering and other metallurgy focussed processes.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 23:21 |
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The front overhang on these new mid engine cars is ridiculous. The leferrari, the mclaren p1, the lambo veneno, all nuts. They should just end the cars at the front wheels, slap some headlights on, and call it a day.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 23:40 |
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# ? May 15, 2024 03:14 |
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But front overhangs = downforce.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 23:47 |