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jet sanchEz posted:Yeah, the Canadian banks stuck to the story that they were not bailed out but it came to light in 2012 that they had been bailed out, to the tune of $114 billion. I believe the rationale behind not making it publicly known was so as not to create a panic but, yeah, our banks hosed up just as bad as the American ones. I think the banks are in trouble, yet. Moody's just downgraded six of them in late January, including TD and BMO: http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2013/01/28/business-moodys-downgrades-banks.html Vancouver RE is one of my favourite topics, mostly because I get to watch it from a spectator view instead of a participant. Moved out of YVR in 2010 and haven't looked back. That city is insane :]
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# ? Feb 23, 2013 03:36 |
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# ? May 19, 2024 15:19 |
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Does anyone have an article about how our banks got bailed out?
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# ? Feb 23, 2013 05:19 |
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Baronjutter posted:Does anyone have an article about how our banks got bailed out? The banks didn't get bailed out. The CCPA who I love with my whole heart wrote a total bullshit hay-guys-the-banks-got-bailed-out report that is totally misleading.
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# ? Feb 23, 2013 09:05 |
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Speaking as someone who's moving immigrating to Vancouver from London (UK) this summer, this thread has provided interesting reading. It was obvious that the current market was a bubble, but I didn't realise quite how bad it is. It probably doesn't help that living in London has pre-conditioned me to think that spending $500-600k on a two bedroom apartment is perfectly acceptable and normal. We'll be renting for at least the worst year, so hopefully the market takes a nosedive during that time. We're ultimately hoping to buy a place in Kits, but expecting the prices to bottom out there is probably too good to be true.
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# ? Feb 23, 2013 10:36 |
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Twiin posted:The banks didn't get bailed out. The CCPA who I love with my whole heart wrote a total bullshit hay-guys-the-banks-got-bailed-out report that is totally misleading. This is the article I frist read about it in, I don't see how it is misleading, taxpayers propped up the banks. http://www2.macleans.ca/2012/05/24/the-real-canadian-bank-bailout/
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# ? Feb 23, 2013 16:53 |
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jet sanchEz posted:This is the article I frist read about it in, I don't see how it is misleading, taxpayers propped up the banks. The mortgages CMHC bought from banks were 'zero-risk', and as such were actually backed by CMHC in the first place. CMHC was always on the hook for these mortgages, and our banks were never in danger of insolvency. They were in danger of running out of free cash, however. So CMHC bought these mortgages and the banks had free cash. If they hadn't bought these mortgages the banks would have been fine, but they would have cancelled your credit card and stopped giving out new mortgages for a year until they collected enough payments from customers that they had enough free cash to give out new mortgages and credit cards. In the US, the govt bought worthless underwater assets because the banks were going to go under. Our banks were never going to go under. Our government never bought anything worthless. Our government never assumed any additional liability. CMHC was always liable for the securities CMHC bought. It wasn't a bailout by any definition. Government has always offered liquidity support to banks. And it wasn't kept a secret either.
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# ? Feb 23, 2013 18:05 |
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moron posted:Speaking as someone who's moving immigrating to Vancouver from London (UK) this summer, this thread has provided interesting reading. Kits probably has enough rich people to support some very high prices for quite some time, collapse or not.
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# ? Feb 23, 2013 19:17 |
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Twiin posted:Government has always offered liquidity support to banks.
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# ? Feb 23, 2013 20:03 |
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moron posted:Speaking as someone who's moving immigrating to Vancouver from London (UK) this summer, this thread has provided interesting reading. What's your occupation? Did you take a pay cut?
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# ? Feb 24, 2013 06:26 |
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Cultural Imperial posted:What's your occupation? Did you take a pay cut? I work in IT, in support/sysadmin roles. I currently have a fairly decent job in London and 10+ years of experience, but I'm aware that I'll almost certainly be taking a pay cut, and it'll be harder to find a job than it is over here. Luckily, between myself and my wife, we have enough savings to cover us entirely for a year whilst we get settled in. Also, if/when the Vancouver housing market shits itself, we'll have around $200k set aside (from selling our apartment here) for a deposit on a place.
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# ? Feb 24, 2013 10:33 |
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moron posted:I work in IT, in support/sysadmin roles. I currently have a fairly decent job in London and 10+ years of experience, but I'm aware that I'll almost certainly be taking a pay cut, and it'll be harder to find a job than it is over here. Luckily, between myself and my wife, we have enough savings to cover us entirely for a year whilst we get settled in. Also, if/when the Vancouver housing market shits itself, we'll have around $200k set aside (from selling our apartment here) for a deposit on a place. Whoa whoa whoa, you're moving here without a job? Why on earth? Have you checked out what jobs here actually pay? You're probably looking at a 30% decline in income. I went through this experience myself 2 years ago. I also worked in IT in London and I would consider myself very lucky to have moved home (to Vancouver) in an internal transfer. There is no loving way I would have considered a move home without an internal transfer.
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# ? Feb 24, 2013 17:43 |
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Soooo...Vancouver is at an all-time high for unsold inventory.
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# ? Feb 24, 2013 18:57 |
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Cultural Imperial posted:Whoa whoa whoa, you're moving here without a job? Why on earth? Have you checked out what jobs here actually pay? You're probably looking at a 30% decline in income. I went through this experience myself 2 years ago. I also worked in IT in London and I would consider myself very lucky to have moved home (to Vancouver) in an internal transfer. There is no loving way I would have considered a move home without an internal transfer. Speaking as someone who lives in the same city he does, I can wholeheartedly say that moving out of London (Ontario) is worth a pay cut. It's the South / Midwest (of I75) of Canada; a cultural wasteland full of fat, white, overly-religious old people, and mobility scooters. Also, it's a drunken college town. That said, it's a very safe place to live, if utterly lacking in diversions that aren't bars. First chance I got, I'd be out of here to Toronto. Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Feb 24, 2013 |
# ? Feb 24, 2013 19:33 |
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Oops, I thought you meant London UK.
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# ? Feb 24, 2013 21:17 |
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OSI bean dip posted:Didn't Texas suffer the least when the banks started to implode? I seem to recall that their laws allowed them to weather the storm far better than the rest of the states save for one of the Dakotas. It doesn't explain Florida though. Texas (and Dallas specifically) got hit really hard during the S&L crisis in the 80s, so a lot of our home equity line of credit, second mortgage, and lending standards are still based around not having people dig themselves into a hole. There were also people with memory of the crash; Dallas didn't build a new skyscraper from the time of the crash until the 2000s. There is also still plenty of land for suburban sprawl, and if you want to live somewhere with a mass transit system *and* at least some culture this is your only option outside of the coasts/Chicago. Granted - it doesn't compare to places like NYC, but people in Texas always say Dallas looks to New York and LA in an aspirational; they often mean it negatively but for the people looking for cheap housing or companies looking to move headquarters it's a huge plus. So the short version is just like politics, all realestate is local. Simulated fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Feb 24, 2013 |
# ? Feb 24, 2013 21:31 |
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Mister Macys posted:Speaking as someone who lives in the same city he does, I can wholeheartedly say that moving out of London (Ontario) is worth a pay cut. He's moving from the UK.
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# ? Feb 24, 2013 21:52 |
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vv In that case, I seriously question his sanity. Australia/NZ would make more sense. Better weather, better scenery, cricket, and soccer that isn't played by ... Seriously, Canadians think soccer is what husbands do after drinking too much. Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Feb 25, 2013 |
# ? Feb 25, 2013 00:04 |
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Now now, we're far too polite for that
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# ? Feb 25, 2013 03:09 |
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http://extranet.centris.ca/FCIQ/Upload/collaboration_201302_an.pdf Apparently realtors aren't allowed to disclose that properties for sale by the CMHC are in foreclosure. Oh well. edit: I mean repossession, not foreclosure.
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# ? Feb 25, 2013 22:06 |
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Not really new news but a poignant data point: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-02-27/canada-losing-debt-halo-as-bull-market-housing-peaks-with-carney.html quote:
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# ? Feb 27, 2013 17:41 |
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For what it's worth, I just received an email from a realtor with subject line "The Real Estate Market In the GTA Is Still Healhty!!" The email goes on to reassure me that, though sales are down and number of unoccupied units are up, the Toronto market is still a seller's market and prices will increase steadily over the next year. Maybe more people are murmuring than I thought, if agents are starting to send out reassuring emails.
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 23:02 |
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Reminds me of a sign I once saw outside a chinese restaurant: "Don't worry! We don't have rats in our kitchen!"
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 00:19 |
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Other than this thread everyone is telling me the price-dip is over (in Victoria) and NOW is the time to buy because the economy is heating up and everything is going to start going up soon. This is the low! Buy NOW!! I tell them I want to wait at least a year, save up more, and hopefully get a lower price. They laugh at me and say things like "oh you must buy those doom and gloom cranks on the internet? They've been saying the bubble's going to burst for the last decade!" and tell me I'll be renting a tiny basement suite for the rest of my life if I'm waiting for a crash.
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 00:28 |
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Baronjutter posted:Other than this thread everyone is telling me the price-dip is over (in Victoria) and NOW is the time to buy because the economy is heating up and everything is going to start going up soon. This is the low! Buy NOW!!
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 00:35 |
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SpaceMost posted:Every time I hear something like that, I look at this picture and giggle uncontrollably: What's depressing is that dude still makes seven figures.
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 01:18 |
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What's people like that author's excuse? "It would have been different if the GOVERNMENT didn't ruin things!" "It would have been different if those poors didn't buy houses they couldn't afford because that's 100% what caused the crash, poors!" "Alien bigfoot did it!" ???
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 00:15 |
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I had a wonderful conversation with a Canadian coworker recently(in the US) about how this isn't really a housing bubble because Canada "has better laws about that type of thing".
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 00:20 |
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Zeitgueist posted:I had a wonderful conversation with a Canadian coworker recently(in the US) about how this isn't really a housing bubble because Canada "has better laws about that type of thing". Whew, well that's good to know!
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 00:23 |
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Baronjutter posted:What's people like that author's excuse? "It would have been different if the GOVERNMENT didn't ruin things!" "It would have been different if those poors didn't buy houses they couldn't afford because that's 100% what caused the crash, poors!" "Alien bigfoot did it!" ??? Sure!
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 00:23 |
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Mr. Wynand posted:Whew, well that's good to know! Yes, 1 million dollar hovels are the natural order of things, apparently.
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 00:26 |
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Zeitgueist posted:Yes, 1 million dollar hovels are the natural order of things, apparently. Well it must be I mean if we have these better laws, right?
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 01:01 |
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Baronjutter posted:Other than this thread everyone is telling me the price-dip is over (in Victoria) and NOW is the time to buy because the economy is heating up and everything is going to start going up soon. This is the low! Buy NOW!! I get this all the time in Vancouver. People here can't seem to fathom that cities like Vancouver and Victoria are economic backwaters that have no business hovering at the cost of living levels that they do.
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# ? Mar 11, 2013 14:00 |
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The Province posted:OTTAWA — A TD Bank research report is warning that Canada’s real estate bonanza has come to an end and predicts home prices will be essentially flat for the next decade.
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# ? Mar 11, 2013 17:39 |
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dethslayer666 posted:But of course real estate agents have a much better idea of what's going on in the housing market than the banks do It's a reputable occupation similar to used car salesmen.
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# ? Mar 11, 2013 23:23 |
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Cultural Imperial posted:I get this all the time in Vancouver. People here can't seem to fathom that cities like Vancouver and Victoria are economic backwaters that have no business hovering at the cost of living levels that they do. Someone hasn't had "BEST PLACE ON EARTH" drilled into your head enough. Don't you remember the Olympics? We're on the world's stage now, we're on the map, we're an alpha city like London or Tokyo! In fact they're going to have to invent some new tier for Vancouver because it's just so loving off the charts amazing. You think this is a bubble? Look at those mountains and tell me it's a bubble. Look at these CHINESE INVESTORS and tell me it's a bubble. Yeah thought so.
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# ? Mar 11, 2013 23:33 |
So, this just came up on CBC. A 16% drop in house sales, with only a one percent drop in housing prices. I don't know much about real estate or market crashes, but isn't a 16% drop in demand enough for a bigger reflection in prices? I mean, is this just realtors burying their heads in the sand and insisting that things will get better? Also, at the CREA insisting that if you ignore Vancouver then everything is peachy. Even I know that's ridiculous. Ignore part of the market and the overall market is better!!!!!!
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# ? Mar 15, 2013 18:08 |
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Dr. Witherbone posted:So, this just came up on CBC. I don't think it's atypical. Here's a graph for comparison for the United Kingdom: Housing prices were still rising a bit and then plateaued briefly while sales were dropping. Lain Iwakura fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Mar 15, 2013 |
# ? Mar 15, 2013 18:28 |
Dr. Witherbone posted:So, this just came up on CBC. There are places in the US were people still refuse to properly list their houses at prices they will actually sell at because they have a certain value which they just know the house is worth and it is hard to shake that. Give it a few months until the investors who were counting on flipping the property quickly slash prices to pay off loans before the interest payments bankrupt them. Then it will become a race for the exits with the realtors screaming about how "Now is the time to buy!" and more than a few saps suckered into attempting to catch a falling knife.
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# ? Mar 15, 2013 18:41 |
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edit: wrong thread...
Kafka Esq. fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Mar 15, 2013 |
# ? Mar 15, 2013 18:54 |
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# ? May 19, 2024 15:19 |
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quote:The flicker of optimism that sparked in Canada’s housing market when January sales outpaced December’s has died out, erased by a notable drop in February. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/housing/crea-cuts-forecast-as-home-sales-plunge-in-february/article9812647/ I wonder how many of these bank economists are cutters.
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# ? Mar 18, 2013 02:55 |