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Blooot posted:Yeah sorry, I should have been more clear. A better way of phrasing: if you were taking your modern bone-stock car to the track for a single day on r-compounds instead of your more focused racing/sports cars, what level of prep would you bother with? Bleed with good fluid, and make sure the pads have plenty of meat left. Add camber if you can, if not expect the outside of the tires to be destroyed pretty quickly. Heavy Mac-strut FWD cars without proper camber destroy tires in short order. Have fun, change the brake fluid!
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# ? Mar 6, 2013 21:14 |
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# ? May 9, 2024 23:44 |
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DJ Commie posted:Bleed with good fluid, and make sure the pads have plenty of meat left. Add camber if you can, if not expect the outside of the tires to be destroyed pretty quickly. Heavy Mac-strut FWD cars without proper camber destroy tires in short order. This, plus have a spare set of pads or be prepared to drive home on the backing plates.
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 01:06 |
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I would do pads and fluid at minimum. I don't like the idea of finding out your brakes are faded when it's a bit too late.
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 03:43 |
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Larrymer posted:I would do pads and fluid at minimum. I don't like the idea of finding out your brakes are faded when it's a bit too late. Yeah this is what I would do. A set of good pads should be <$100 and that's a hell of a lot cheaper than going off track and bending something. Especially since you know what your doing on track and won't be timid about going fast. Just read front camber is not adjustable. Maybe get a set of these: http://www.awesomegti.com/superpro-front-camber-adjustable-ball-joints-mk5-mk6-golf-jetta-a3-s3-8p-leon-mk2-octavia-mk2 and then sell them on Vortex after the track? That's a lot of work though and probably not worth that level of effort for a single track day with tires you're trashing anyway.
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 04:56 |
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Does that car have front struts? I've been looking around and everyone is using camber plates or modded control arms. Can't you just get an aftermarket bolt or slot the struts?
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 05:12 |
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aventari posted:Yeah this is what I would do. A set of good pads should be <$100 and that's a hell of a lot cheaper than going off track and bending something. I wish a full set of good pads was less than 100 for the 4 pot evo brakes...! poo poo, not even for my old 2 pot dsm brakes was under 100 for the fronts alone. What kind of pads run that cheap....? Certainly nothing that hold up to heat on a car thats >3000lbs
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 06:02 |
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Stoptechs are probably the only thing that cheap. Can handle a track day if you have big brakes. A friend of mine used them at streets of willow in his R33 and said they worked well enough. Otherwise you want a DS3000, DTC-60, CL6, etc. jamal fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Mar 7, 2013 |
# ? Mar 7, 2013 06:07 |
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Throw some proper track pads on it, flush the brake fluid and go to town. Maybe do some other regular maintenance fluids if they are close to their normal change intervals (tranny/diff/oil/etc). Who cares about camber if your goal is to just burn the tires up. You'll kill the outside edges of the fronts, swap em to the rear 1/2 way through and run em till they cord. If you cared about going as fast as possible or getting your money's worth out of tires then go and fix the geometry. But since you only intend on tracking this thing once just do the brakes and go. Laffo on <$100 pads. Even pads for a Miata are ~$200 a set.
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 06:11 |
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jamal posted:Stoptechs are probably the only thing that cheap. Can handle a track day if you have big brakes. A friend of mine used them at streets of willow in his R33 and said they worked well enough. So were they basically on the backing plates at the end of the day? I find it hard to believe that pads that cheap could handle that much heat without breaking apart by the end of the day. (unless he was going slow)
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 16:13 |
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Which brake pads should I check out for my 2008 Z06? I haven't been able to sell it on its old pads and tires, so I'm gonna refresh it for the spring and either drive it or try selling again. I've taken it to one track day and abhorred the F1 Supercar EMTs on it now. I've definitely settled on Michelin Pilot Super Sports for the tires. Haven't picked a brake pad yet. I'm not looking for a race pad, but I don't mind decreased performance until the pad is heated up. Something that holds up well at a occasional track day and doesn't have huge amounts of dust would be great. I have black wheels that I get cleaned frequently, so I'm probably still less averse to dust than others. Having been hypnotized by the ads in the last few Grassroots Motorsports issues, I was thinking StopTech. But would like to hear what others say. FWIW, the Z06 weighs around 3,200 lbs.
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 21:44 |
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For what they cost, you could try them. I consider them kind of like an HP+ combined with an HPS. Doesn't make noise, works when cold, has similar cf and MOT. The Ferodo DS2500 is similar, but more friction and a higher temp rating. Neither are really a track pad though. The CL RC5+ is a great pad that would probably be perfect for you, but they are really expensive. A friend of mine had them on his EVO that saw a ton of track time but was also driven on the street and really liked them. There are even some guys street driving with the RC6 (the most popular CL race pad) although they are pretty harsh on rotors when cold. jamal fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Mar 7, 2013 |
# ? Mar 7, 2013 21:57 |
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drat, those are expensive, but they look tempting. I couldn't find OEM fitting pads from Ferodo or StopTech. Tirerack's StopTech pads seem to be only for base C6s. I still haven't manned up to getting sports seats, so I could pony up more for these CLs. I wish more places did brake pad comparos like they do for tires.
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 22:27 |
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What's your budget? Porterfield does a front Z06 setup for around 250-300ish depending on compound: http://porterfield-brakes.com/product_info.php?productID=2470 (I blew way too much on my brakepads for my car just recently ) Octopus Magic fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Mar 7, 2013 |
# ? Mar 7, 2013 23:22 |
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Tirerack has fewer than 2 (or 1 or 0) Michelin PSS in 325/30/19. PSS supply must be dwindling. Michelin not going to put out another batch til May, which according to my shop is not a reliable estimate. Should I go up to 345? It seems like a lot of extra tire for the rear. The alternative is +$140 from a local shop.
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# ? Mar 7, 2013 23:28 |
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kimbo305 posted:drat, those are expensive, but they look tempting. I couldn't find OEM fitting pads from Ferodo or StopTech. Tirerack's StopTech pads seem to be only for base C6s. Stoptech makes them 309.11850 front 309.11851 rear And actually it's the same pad front and rear, except the front has two more. neither of my distributors have them in stock so it would take me at least a week to get them. Amazon is probably easier. jamal fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Mar 8, 2013 |
# ? Mar 8, 2013 00:01 |
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FatCow posted:Laffo on <$100 pads. Even pads for a Miata are ~$200 a set. I'm just talking front pads. Maybe I didn't mention that. I assumed anyone here would also realize changing the rears for one track day is goddamn ridiculous. https://www.topbrakes.com/carSeriesDetails.php/1060/Racing+Brake+Pads/HAWK/Hawk+HT-10/1987+BMW+325iS+E30+Chassis $109 track pads. Last summer I ran these in all day back-to-back sessions at Willow Springs. 95+ degree ambient. Here's Ferodo DS2500's that I ran on my 99 Miata for 4 track days + street driving with zero fade or brake issues. $109 https://www.topbrakes.com/carSeriesDetails.php/14236/Street+Brake+Pads/FERODO/Ferodo+DS2500/1999+MAZDA+MIATA+MX5+ As for Bloot's GTI, he can get a set of Porterfield R4S's for $90 https://www.topbrakes.com/carSeriesDetails.php/24735/Street+Brake+Pads/PORTERFIELD/Porterfield+R4-S/2010+VOLKSWAGEN+GTI+2.0L+Turbo Which are not track pads, but for a single trackday they'll be worlds better than the OEM crap _and_ he can keep using them on the street when he's done. aventari fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Mar 8, 2013 |
# ? Mar 8, 2013 00:35 |
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For a car that you track a couple times a year, but mostly drive on the street, is it common to just have two sets of pads and swap them out on track days? I've been looking at reviews for the pads you mentioned, and most seem to complain about the noise when street driving. There doesn't seem to be a good compromise that works for both track and street driving. Sounds like a bit of a chore to do every time you head to the track, but it also sounds worth the effort. e: I guess if you have a separate set of track wheels/tires as well, then it's less of a chore since you're in there anyway. Hmm...
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 04:22 |
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I've never had a separate set of track pads. The Ferodo DS2500's have worked great on the street and track for me in a Miata, VW Scirocco turbo and Rabbit GTI. Those are all lightweight cars though. Heavier cars probably have different needs.
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 04:26 |
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You can run race pads on the street, but they like to eat rotors/squeal/not brake too well at first. If you can swap, swap them. Also some pads have some mean brake dust that can eat wheel finishes.
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 04:27 |
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ColdPie posted:For a car that you track a couple times a year, but mostly drive on the street, is it common to just have two sets of pads and swap them out on track days? I've been looking at reviews for the pads you mentioned, and most seem to complain about the noise when street driving. There doesn't seem to be a good compromise that works for both track and street driving. Sounds like a bit of a chore to do every time you head to the track, but it also sounds worth the effort. I've done this on my e30 when I was using it for DD and track duty.
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 05:12 |
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ColdPie posted:For a car that you track a couple times a year, but mostly drive on the street, is it common to just have two sets of pads and swap them out on track days? I've been looking at reviews for the pads you mentioned, and most seem to complain about the noise when street driving. There doesn't seem to be a good compromise that works for both track and street driving. Sounds like a bit of a chore to do every time you head to the track, but it also sounds worth the effort. Yup I keep a set of track pads and wheels/tires for track days. Drive to/from the track and daily on your street stuff then get to the track swap and play, or drive to/from the track on your track stuff depending on how far it is. Pretty common with the group I do event with.
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 14:23 |
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I've used dual purpose pads and have had a set of street pads and track pads. I very much prefer having two sets of pads for a number of reasons. First off any pad that's good on the track is going to squeal, a lot. No dual purpose pad is going to anywhere near the braking performance or heat resistance of a dedicated track pad. You can always get home on a set of pads even if you smoke your entire track set. Changing pads gives you a good chance to examine your rotors, calipers, and lines while you have the wheels off. It took me maybe 15 minutes tops to swap pads and change wheels on my SRT8 when I arrived at the track in the morning (and that's without an electric impact wrench). Granted the calipers on that car were very easy to get the pads out and in but its probably not as much of a hassle as you think it is. For a dedicated track pad I really like Carbotech XP12/10's if you're running slicks or 10/8's if you're just running r comps or street tires.
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 17:56 |
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kill me now posted:Changing pads gives you a good chance to examine your rotors, calipers, and lines while you have the wheels off. This is a great reason to have a separate set that you swap out.
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# ? Mar 8, 2013 19:29 |
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ATTN NC racers. Our club's resident insurance agent posted this to our forums. Cross posting it here. Guess Texans are unique now in being covered. I'm not an agent, blah, blah, consult your own agent before taking this as true. quote:Well, the free ride is over, there has never been an exclusion on the NC auto policy for racing, etc. but one has been put in under the cover of darkness.
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# ? Mar 11, 2013 16:13 |
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Aw shucks. No better time to start tracking a worthless piece of crap then, I guess
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# ? Mar 12, 2013 00:40 |
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SNiPER_Magnum posted:Aw shucks. No better time to start tracking a worthless piece of crap then, I guess You can and probably should get track day insurance in any event unless you have a beater. It costs a bit, but worth not having to go to court over an insurance contract. Most insurance companies, even with somewhat ambiguous language in contracts, are going to fight tooth and nail against paying anything that happens near a racetrack.
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# ? Mar 12, 2013 06:55 |
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I'd probably forgo trackday insurance on any car under 7k or so. The rates tend to bottom out at about $140 per day or something which will get you $15k worth of insurance. And the insurers tend to charge a 5% to 10% deductible (% of the insured value). Of course, in doing so you'll have to be able to eat a $7k loss, but realistically, there might be a couple grand worth of parts in your wrecked car, even if it's otherwise a total loss.
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# ? Mar 12, 2013 08:01 |
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I wrecked my first FD at a track day. It hurt (the pocket book) but it wasn't the end of the world. The car was probably worth ~12k at the time, I was able to get ~5k of parts of out it. Still at 7k loss and I continue the vow I made to not track cars I love that much. That's what ChumpCars are for. So much less drama when that one gets put in the wall. I have a lot more fun driving this pile of junk at 9/10ths and occasionally running out of talent and go 11/10ths than if I were to baby my nice car around at 7/10's all day.
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 00:27 |
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Personally, I don't race or track a car I'm not willing to lose or walk away from in a heartbeat. Saves a lot of heartache when it happens.
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 01:30 |
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The property aspect of the insurance law change is a minor point, the bigger point is losing your liability. God forbid something goes awry and you wind up hitting another HPDE driver or a corner worker. Not having a liability or umbrella policy claim there would blow.
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 01:47 |
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One of the worst things about track days is just having that constant background thought of "oh poo poo I hope nothing happens this my daily driver." Is there any way to get around these concerns or is the solution just having a dedicated track car?
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 02:51 |
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Get a dedicated track car or get a dedicated daily driver. My biggest fear was always how to get my mangled heap back home. I need a worthless piece of crap tow vehicle too.
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 03:18 |
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Must be nice to be able to have insurance. If I use my local track I have ZERO coverage. The only way I could get covered is the BMW school and it's 500 bucks to track with a bunch of rich assholes.
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 03:23 |
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SNiPER_Magnum posted:Get a dedicated track car or get a dedicated daily driver.
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 03:25 |
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I've already scratched that one off my bucket list.
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 04:46 |
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FatCow posted:Guess Texans are unique now in being covered. Even as a Texan I would never rely on my personal auto policy to cover anything related to the track. As mentioned beforehand, I'm sure they will fight tooth and nail to make sure you don't get covered and will probably drop you afterwards. I know there are stories of some people who were covered, but I'm sure there are many others who were not. There is a local DE program/group here that requires insurance to participate in their events and it still blows my mind. I once got into an argument on some car forum about it and I had to remind the guy he was driving on a racetrack and not i10.
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 05:10 |
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eriddy posted:One of the worst things about track days is just having that constant background thought of "oh poo poo I hope nothing happens this my daily driver." Keep traction and stability control on? My car feels like the motor has died when those kick on and I've gone past the danger slip angle, itd be very hard to wreck it unless I was trying to.
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 05:20 |
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parid posted:
Chumpcars means you have to have a trailer, a tow vehicle, a trailer, and all those necessities that are required for having an actual racecar, to which I might say if you're going to that extreme, you might as well get an SCCA car/NASA/what have you. I might be passing too much judgement on the 500 dollar race car concept, but I like a nice car and the engineering behind it as well.
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 06:18 |
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Octopus Magic posted:Chumpcars means you have to have a trailer, a tow vehicle, a trailer, and all those necessities that are required for having an actual racecar, to which I might say if you're going to that extreme, you might as well get an SCCA car/NASA/what have you. Not to mention all the safety equipment (cage, tires, wheels, brakes, seats, harness, etc) not included in the $500.
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 06:29 |
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# ? May 9, 2024 23:44 |
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Something a lot of people seem to forget about running at a track. Damage to the property. You pay for that. That nice armco you just slammed your car into? You're paying to replace it. The 100ft section of wire fence you knocked over as you spun out? Paying to replace it. I still remember the guy who took out a portable light for a night race. He had to pay a few grand and that was after event insurance paid some of it.
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# ? Mar 13, 2013 14:19 |