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Ursine Asylum posted:In like one of the first 20 comics, yeah. Also Belkar's dagger magically shrunk because they moved to the 3.5 ruleset and they had 3 or 4 jokes played "straight" about missing listen/spot checks on ninja hordes and 20 foot tall chimeras. Don't be silly. Stories have to start somewhere, and you can't have a 3 dimensional character on page 1 of a novel, much less a comic. Making dumb jokes about the rules is part of the world-building of the series. It's indirect characterization of the setting as being a place where skill-points matter, and common-sense less so. The fact that those characteristics aren't the most important thing going on in the setting takes a while to properly establish.
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Mar 9, 2013 06:37
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CapnAndy posted:Apparently the book version replaces the first few comics with appropriate things rather than obscure version jokes? One of the many reasons I'm eternally pissed off he won't sell digitally. I WANT THOSE STRIPS. I... don't remember that? Of course an ex has my books, so...
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Mar 9, 2013 06:37
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Comparing the first 15 strips, there's minor art differences, but the dialog is all the same.
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Mar 9, 2013 06:54
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CapnAndy posted:Apparently the book version replaces the first few comics with appropriate things rather than obscure version jokes? One of the many reasons I'm eternally pissed off he won't sell digitally. I WANT THOSE STRIPS. From what I've heard it doesn't replace them, but there are some new introductory strips rather than just showing up in the middle of a fight with some goblins. Ursine Asylum posted:It doesn't make much sense to regenerate clothing, but he had a robe while Redcloak was hauling him around. Neither the gem nor the contents have been mentioned, but I'm going to assume Redcloak acquired both it and Xykon's robe in the post-detonation confusion. That sounds about right. The only place it shows up in the comic proper is here, and Xykon definitely still had access to the headband after his original body was destroyed.
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Mar 9, 2013 06:56
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CapnAndy posted:Apparently the book version replaces the first few comics with appropriate things rather than obscure version jokes? One of the many reasons I'm eternally pissed off he won't sell digitally. I WANT THOSE STRIPS. I'd be curious about seeing that, given that literally the first macguffin is "power over old edition monsters". e: ikanreed posted:Don't be silly. Stories have to start somewhere, and you can't have a 3 dimensional character on page 1 of a novel, much less a comic. Making dumb jokes about the rules is part of the world-building of the series. It's indirect characterization of the setting as being a place where skill-points matter, and common-sense less so. The fact that those characteristics aren't the most important thing going on in the setting takes a while to properly establish. I don't expect 3 dimensional characters on page 1, but broaching the 4th wall constantly for 20 strips before going into (and sticking with) drama is a little weird to me. Except for Haley getting the diamond to resurrect Roy with, most of the comic since has just been "legitimate world with very odd metaphysical properties". The spot/listen check jokes back at the beginning always seemed out of place in comparison to how the world's been characterized since then. Alliterate Addict fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Mar 9, 2013 |
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Mar 9, 2013 07:40
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The best way to handle your first few comics in the classic "webcomic that goes from gag-a-day to serious" is to not address them ever. Turn the beginning of the story into a sort of hazy era to which characters refer only when bringing up plot-relevant details. An explicit retcon (or worse, trying to explain it in terms of the world's own rules) just draws attention to the discrepancy you're trying to minimize. People have made the point that the early comics of OotS and many other webcomics are meant to help establish the story and the characters and ease into a real story, not to mention giving the authour a chance to decide if making a comic is really something they want to do. Comic-reading audiences are familiar enough with this pattern by now to give the first few comics some latitude.
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Mar 9, 2013 08:45
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Dolash posted:People have made the point that the early comics of OotS and many other webcomics are meant to help establish the story and the characters and ease into a real story, not to mention giving the authour a chance to decide if making a comic is really something they want to do. Comic-reading audiences are familiar enough with this pattern by now to give the first few comics some latitude. Oh, for sure-- I just kind of skip everything before the Linear Guild on archive binges, and there's plenty of fantastic comics that start in much the same way. My (derailed) original point was more that we don't know what happened to Xykon's gems/clothing just because it's hard to tell what of that first arc is considered "canon", as it were, and what was played for laughs.
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Mar 9, 2013 09:22
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I feel really spoiled from the last quick updates. Then there is of course this thread which used to only get a couple of posts every few days or at updates and now has gone berserk with 100+ new posts a day. 
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Mar 9, 2013 09:35
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CapnAndy posted:Apparently the book version replaces the first few comics with appropriate things rather than obscure version jokes? One of the many reasons I'm eternally pissed off he won't sell digitally. I WANT THOSE STRIPS.
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Mar 9, 2013 10:35
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Ursine Asylum posted:I don't expect 3 dimensional characters on page 1, but broaching the 4th wall constantly for 20 strips before going into (and sticking with) drama is a little weird to me. The fourth-wall breaches have been less frequent than at the beginning, but they never disappeared. I mean, for example those. Okay, so they are used as punch lines at the end of the page, but they all come from pages with serious plot and/or drama.
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Mar 9, 2013 11:13
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You just got me to reread the Oracle mini-arc and reading this one I remembered that Belkar is pretty heavily implied to one day cause Vaarsuvius' death as well. I mean, for what that's worth, given that the same comic spells out just how indirectly that particular prophecy tends to come true, but still. Pretty bleak future for half the Order ahead, it would seem. Speaking of the Oracle though, he's involved with Tiamat. I dimly remember he told the black dragon who killed her offspring, but you'd think either the Oracle or Tiamat herself would have had a stronger interest in preventing a meeting between the two, seeing as it led directly to Black Dragon Familicide. Then again, maybe he couldn't have predicted the Directors' meddling.
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Mar 9, 2013 11:31
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Hey, speaking of the Order of the Scribble, we've no idea what's up with Serini, do we? The Order mentioned they might try contacting her at one point, but never did. Did Xykon ever say how he found her diary? It seems there's a good chance she's still knocking around in the Northern Lands with the last Gate? And if so, she'd have gotten magical notifications that three of the gates have blown and from Draketooth's warning spell that someone's tried to find the fourth.
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Mar 9, 2013 11:42
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My Lovely Horse posted:You just got me to reread the Oracle mini-arc and reading this one I remembered that Belkar is pretty heavily implied to one day cause Vaarsuvius' death as well. I mean, for what that's worth, given that the same comic spells out just how indirectly that particular prophecy tends to come true, but still. Pretty bleak future for half the Order ahead, it would seem. The Oracle doesn't seem to meddle beyond what he's directly asked (at least not intentionally, though ghost Roy got extra information out of him) and I assume he doesn't often look ahead when he doesn't want/need to, and it was pretty clear that Tiamat pissed about that whole thing, whether or not she saw it coming (assuming she didn't, since she didn't act preemptively). Tangent from that, wonder if the Familicide zapped Tiamat's black dragon head, or if she's too powerful/too far removed for that. It'd be interesting for her to show up sans one head at some point, though yet another antagonist isn't particularly necessary for the story at this point.
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Mar 9, 2013 11:45
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I'm fairly certain Tiamat has still got all five of her heads. I don't doubt that the Familicide might have caused her some serious discomfort, but it didn't kill a head, just give her the Epic-level magic equivalent of a bad hangover. In the strip where the Fiends saw the result of their meddling with V, Tiamat was on the phone on five lines at once. Five lines, five heads.
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Mar 9, 2013 14:01
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Roland Jones posted:Tangent from that, wonder if the Familicide zapped Tiamat's black dragon head, or if she's too powerful/too far removed for that. It'd be interesting for her to show up sans one head at some point, though yet another antagonist isn't particularly necessary for the story at this point. The black dragon head is probably fine just from being a deity, but I was under the impression that there were still a few black dragons left after all of that.
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Mar 9, 2013 14:12
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Not even just a few, if I remember correctly V's Familicide got only about 25% of them. "Only" in pretty huge quotation marks because if anything wiped out 25% of any population subset in our world at once we'd be making GBS threads ourselves.
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Mar 9, 2013 14:16
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MikeJF posted:Hey, speaking of the Order of the Scribble, we've no idea what's up with Serini, do we? The Order mentioned they might try contacting her at one point, but never did. Did Xykon ever say how he found her diary? It seems there's a good chance she's still knocking around in the Northern Lands with the last Gate? And if so, she'd have gotten magical notifications that three of the gates have blown and from Draketooth's warning spell that someone's tried to find the fourth. I am pretty sure V tried to contact Serini with a sending. I can't find the exact comic where that was mentioned though, if it happened.
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Mar 9, 2013 18:30
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Given that Xykon has her diary, and has had it for some time, plus the fact that Sending spells to her don't work, we can be pretty sure Serini's dead. Though whether she was already dead when Xykon got her diary or if he's the one who killed her is as yet unrevealed.
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Mar 9, 2013 18:53
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Ursine Asylum posted:Except for Haley getting the diamond to resurrect Roy with, most of the comic since has just been "legitimate world with very odd metaphysical properties". The spot/listen check jokes back at the beginning always seemed out of place in comparison to how the world's been characterized since then. On the other hand, Rich hasn't entirely gotten away from such jokes, which I think makes the transition smoother. The gags are still there in the world, they're just not the main characters' focus any more.
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Mar 9, 2013 20:51
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I didn't even mind the jokes at the start. I just reread the first two hundred or so - It felt to me like they were run of the mill adventurers who were bumbling through a dungeon, and slowly the seriousness of the situation begins to sink in as more of the world is revealed. It's a good way to acclimate the reader to the comic's tone and ease them into the story without being too dark at the start.
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Mar 9, 2013 21:13
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I wouldn't mind if he went back and touched up the artwork on the first bunch of strips at least.
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Mar 9, 2013 22:09
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He did.
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Mar 9, 2013 22:28
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Colonel Cool posted:I wouldn't mind if he went back and touched up the artwork on the first bunch of strips at least. The Order of the Stick Special Edition would finally capture the vision Burlew always had in mind, but couldn't achieve with the stick figure technology of the time.
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Mar 9, 2013 22:28
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oobey posted:The Order of the Stick Special Edition would finally capture the vision Burlew always had in mind, but couldn't achieve with the stick figure technology of the time. My biggest beef is that the ghost of Roy's dad now looks like he did in the prequel books.
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Mar 9, 2013 22:31
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oobey posted:The Order of the Stick Special Edition would finally capture the vision Burlew always had in mind, but couldn't achieve with the stick figure technology of the time. What would be the equivalent of "Han shot first" for The Order of The Stick: Special Edition?
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Mar 10, 2013 00:00
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JosephWongKS posted:What would be the equivalent of "Han shot first" for The Order of The Stick: Special Edition? The Dragon cast Disintegrate first.
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Mar 10, 2013 00:04
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re-read some of the archives today, and this entire book Durkon's extreme uptightness has been causing problems. His refusal to compromise on disobeyong unjust laws keeps Roy & Belkar locked up, it interfered with Haley's attempt at talking the information out of the authorities (and she flat out calls him on it at one point) and it was his driving motivation in picking an unnecessary fight. I mean, you can make the whole alignment argument that he had to be this way, but the point is his fatal flaw was really called out this book. Also, unrelated but "Everyone needs my kind of stability" is such a perfect villain line.
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Mar 10, 2013 00:19
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Fried Chicken posted:Also, unrelated but "Everyone needs my kind of stability" is such a perfect villain line. Agreed. Nale's crazy ambush scenarios are but a pale reflection of Tarquin's awesomeness.
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Mar 10, 2013 00:54
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Fried Chicken posted:re-read some of the archives today, and this entire book Durkon's extreme uptightness has been causing problems. His refusal to compromise on disobeyong unjust laws keeps Roy & Belkar locked up, it interfered with Haley's attempt at talking the information out of the authorities (and she flat out calls him on it at one point) and it was his driving motivation in picking an unnecessary fight. And now he's a vampire slave-thrall, the natural extension of his lawfulness!
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Mar 10, 2013 01:06
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ConfusedUs posted:Agreed.
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Mar 10, 2013 01:15
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Fried Chicken posted:Also, unrelated but "Everyone needs my kind of stability" is such a perfect villain line. If we're talking about stuff Rich needs to go back and fix I hope he does a run through for typos and such. It's not facist, it's fascist.
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Mar 10, 2013 01:19
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Brannock posted:If we're talking about stuff Rich needs to go back and fix I hope he does a run through for typos and such. It's not facist, it's fascist.
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Mar 10, 2013 01:43
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I just reread Malack's vow to "handle the dwarf" personally (out of respect).  Man, this comic.
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Mar 10, 2013 01:54
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Fried Chicken posted:re-read some of the archives today, and this entire book Durkon's extreme uptightness has been causing problems. His refusal to compromise on disobeyong unjust laws keeps Roy & Belkar locked up, it interfered with Haley's attempt at talking the information out of the authorities (and she flat out calls him on it at one point) and it was his driving motivation in picking an unnecessary fight. Well, no, it was Tarquin's decision to seize control of the pyramid that caused the unnecessary fight. All of Malack's compromises involved either having the entire Order of the Stick withdraw, or having Durkon and Malack sit out the fight to some degree. Tarquin withdrawing his team wasn't on the table.
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Mar 10, 2013 03:26
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Being bound by the offers on the table is part of Durkon's problem. He could have told Malack he was withdrawing to get out of the situation, and just ignore whatever promise he needed to make. Durkon was at least evenly matched, if not slightly outgunned, against Malack and low-will Belkar. But rather than doing the strategically wise thing, Durkon pressed the fight, and as a result the Order's position is severely diminished. He did manage to save Belkar, though, so at least some of the damage was mitigated.
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Mar 10, 2013 04:25
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Danzou posted:Being bound by the offers on the table is part of Durkon's problem. He could have told Malack he was withdrawing to get out of the situation, and just ignore whatever promise he needed to make. Durkon was at least evenly matched, if not slightly outgunned, against Malack and low-will Belkar. But rather than doing the strategically wise thing, Durkon pressed the fight, and as a result the Order's position is severely diminished. He did manage to save Belkar, though, so at least some of the damage was mitigated. Belkar is almost useless in a fight right now, and won't heal up for ages without Durkon, unless there are some really good potions in Haley's bag.
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Mar 10, 2013 04:35
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ConfusedUs posted:Belkar is almost useless in a fight right now, and won't heal up for ages without Durkon, unless there are some really good potions in Haley's bag. Man... Durkon really let everyone down. But being like he is, really couldn't have done anything differently.
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Mar 10, 2013 08:16
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I thought this, this and this were kind of interesting - someone coming to the comic blind and with no knowledge of D&D. His predictions are funny.
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Mar 10, 2013 11:12
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jng2058 posted:Given that Xykon has her diary, and has had it for some time, plus the fact that Sending spells to her don't work, we can be pretty sure Serini's dead. Though whether she was already dead when Xykon got her diary or if he's the one who killed her is as yet unrevealed. On the other hand, I think Serini's alive. In #695 Girard says that the spell he left in the supposed location of the gate was also set to notify both "us" (by which I guess he means the Draketooth family) and Serini should anyone go looking for the gate there. Then in #698, as the Order is leaving, a scrying sensor appears to look at the area. I think it's unlikely this is a coincidence, meaning the scrying and the message spell activating are related; since at this points the Draketooths were all dead, the only possibility left is Serini.
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Mar 10, 2013 14:22
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Mikl posted:On the other hand, I think Serini's alive. In #695 Girard says that the spell he left in the supposed location of the gate was also set to notify both "us" (by which I guess he means the Draketooth family) and Serini should anyone go looking for the gate there. Then in #698, as the Order is leaving, a scrying sensor appears to look at the area. I think it's unlikely this is a coincidence, meaning the scrying and the message spell activating are related; since at this points the Draketooths were all dead, the only possibility left is Serini. I think the consensus is that the scry is the Linear Guilds Dark Elf based on the color.
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Mar 10, 2013 14:26
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