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Sir Unimaginative posted:Up until, like, Persona 3 (and including Raidou 2 I think) a bunch of Atlus PS2 titles, including all the SMT titles, used that old Wizardry engine with a goddamn interlaced frame buffer. Interlaced frame buffers were gone by like 2003 in the rest of the PS2 world but nope, we're doing that in the year of our lord 2009. On the one hand I would be surprised if NO game with an interlaced frame buffer came out on PS2 Classics, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the source of a whole lot of grief. This is why the people who are so fixated on an HD SMT game are so baffling to me. Atlus has always been pretty terrible from a technical perspective, but they make up for it with excellent art direction most of the time. They would never be able to produce the kind of game people have in their heads and if they did they would just go bankrupt from it anyway.
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Mar 8, 2013 16:55
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I agree that it's pretty baffling that people want games on systems they own.
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Mar 8, 2013 20:36
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TurnipFritter posted:I agree that it's pretty baffling that people want games on systems they own. I too agree. I'd much rather have new games on consoles I own instead of lovely ports.
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Mar 8, 2013 20:39
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TurnipFritter posted:I agree that it's pretty baffling that people want games on systems they own. It's not about being on systems people own. I've seen lots of people harping on SMTIV for having terrible graphics and saying they basically want Nocturne but in HD. Edit: I think people misinterpreted me. I didn't mean literally an HD remake of Nocturne. I would probably buy that myself if it was on a system I own. I meant there are fans who seem to be unhappy with and will trash anything that's not a straight clone of Nocturne's mechanics and plot but with HD graphics. I like that Atlus fiddles with mechanics and explores new things rather than just rehashing old stuff (ports aside). Joshlemagne fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 20:51
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I just want more awesome SMT games.
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Mar 8, 2013 21:13
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Joshlemagne posted:It's not about being on systems people own. I've seen lots of people harping on SMTIV for having terrible graphics and saying they basically want Nocturne but in HD. SMT4 does have awful graphics. The exploration bits look fantastic, it's just the everything else that looks like absolute poo poo. It's perfectly fair to have wanted SMT4 to be a console game, or them to have made more than a single console game this generation. ZenMasterBullshit posted:I too agree. I'd much rather have new games on consoles I own instead of lovely ports. I'm not sure you agree to strongly because you don't seem to understand what we're talking about. Neither of us were talking about ports. 
TurnipFritter fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 21:20
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TurnipFritter posted:It's perfectly fair to have wanted SMT4 to be a console game, or them to have made more than a single console game this generation. Why so? The industry is in a really bad place at the moment precisely because developers do not know how to trim their budgets. Countless studios have died because they want to make a "AAA" title and the pure budget required for one kills them. The constant demands for "you should make an HD console game" on a studio who is not frankly large enough to make a HD console game more complex than a simple puzzle game are weird. Do you not pay attention to the lovely state of the industry at the moment at all or acknowledge that budget inflation is literally killing even good and successful studios? SMT is not a big huge million sellers but it survives because they acknowledge their budgets. They skimp out in places but that's a shitload better than the studios with eyes bigger than their stomachs who can make games that sell two million copies and still don't make their budgets back. That isn't to say that Atlus can't or won't put out a console SMT game, but they're drat well not going to do it until they're sure it's not going to be a tremendous waste of budget. It's probably going to be Persona 5 if it does happen because that's their biggest franchise by far at the moment. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 21:33
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TurnipFritter posted:SMT4 does have awful graphics. The exploration bits look fantastic, it's just the everything else that looks like absolute poo poo. I not arguing that fans shouldn't be a bit disappointed in Atlus' console output this gen. I just think it's strange when people seem to expect Atlus to push graphics boundaries when they have never really done that in the past. Their games have always been butt from a technical perspective they just mask that with great art direction. I don't think SMTIV on a console would really wind up looking that much better. The game looks the way it does not because of hardware limitations but because Atlus isn't really willing to dedicate the resources to make it look better. The 3ds could easily handle 3d monster models, for instance, Etrian Odyssey does it after all. They just didn't want to put the money into redoing all 400 or so demons. It's when fans threaten to boycott what will probably be a great game because Atlus isn't really willing to commit to an HD budget developing a game that will probably sell only a few hundred thousand copies worldwide that bugs me. There's also the fact that a console game would likely have required some huge sacrifices in order to even happen. Final Fantasy is still the biggest jrpg franchise in the world and even Square had to make huge compromises (no towns for example) in order to get it on hd systems. Norns posted:I just want more awesome SMT games. Basically this. I just worry that's fans will turn their noses up at the game because it's not exactly the smt game in thier head and I'll be left wistfully staring at a fully untranslated SMTV that never leaves Japan. Joshlemagne fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 22:05
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ImpAtom posted:Why so? The industry is in a really bad place at the moment precisely because developers do not know how to trim their budgets. Countless studios have died because they want to make a "AAA" title and the pure budget required for one kills them. Truth bomb right here, no way is Atlus gonna drop the budget needed for an HD game just yet, I love the way Atlus does things to be honest, they print only what's needed and make a nice profit of it. quote:I just worry that's fans will turn their noses up at the game because it's not exactly the smt game in thier head and I'll be left wistfully staring at a fully untranslated SMTV that never leaves Japan. Never gonna happen man, the SMT fanbase is far to rabid they love this stuff, those that whine are always a small minority.
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Mar 8, 2013 22:12
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ImpAtom posted:Why so? The industry is in a really bad place at the moment precisely because developers do not know how to trim their budgets. Countless studios have died because they want to make a "AAA" title and the pure budget required for one kills them. Well...actually this isn't accurate. SMT is a big huge million seller. Atlus USA may be small and European releases even tinier but SMT is almost at the level of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy in terms of popularity in Japan. Which is frankly the market that counts. And that's also why we're probably not going to see a HD console SMT game in the vein of Nocturne. Consoles practically have one foot in the grave in Japan--it's all about the handhelds now. Bringing out a major release on a console instead of a handheld is like setting a giant pile of money on fire in Japan nowadays with all the lost potential revenue. Similarly, while Nocturne was popular in Japan, it isn't the style of SMT that's most popular--the SMT1/2/if style is, which is why we've seen those particular games remade over and over again. That's probably why Strange Journey was closer in style to the older games than Nocturne too--it was safer that way. If SMTIV isn't much closer in style and gameplay to Strange Journey than to Nocturne I will be very surprised. The demand for a console-based, HD Nocturne-style SMT may be bigger in the West, but that's because consoles aren't dead there, and because Nocturne is the yardstick by which mainstream SMT games are judged. Which of course isn't surprising because it's also the only mainstream SMT game that got an official release outside of Strange Journey. But it's unrealistic to expect Atlus to cater to such a tiny market where there is so much more profit to be had elsewhere. I mean, it's too bad maybe, but totally understandable.
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Mar 8, 2013 22:17
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Genpei Turtle posted:Well...actually this isn't accurate. SMT is a big huge million seller. Atlus USA may be small and European releases even tinier but SMT is almost at the level of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy in terms of popularity in Japan. Yeah, I should have clarified. I meant big million sellers in the way that it wouldn't matter what system they were on. The handheld boom in Japan means that it only makes sense to release for them there. They're successful games but partially because Atlus knows where to target. (Thus also doing things like selling on the PS2 even though the next gen is well out.) The fact that handheld goes hand-in-hand with lower budgets is likely something that sits just fine with Atlus though. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Mar 8, 2013 |
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Mar 8, 2013 22:26
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ImpAtom posted:Why so? Because people are allowed to want things?
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Mar 8, 2013 22:48
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It's good to want things. It builds character. ...unless you're Buddhist, I guess.
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Mar 8, 2013 23:56
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So I bought Nocturne at release. I've started it three times. The first time I was playing something else -- I don't remember what, really -- and so just drifted away from it. The second time I couldn't figure out how to stop being flattened by Matador. My play of it this year stems from the fact that I stacked all my SMT games on the same shelf recently and then realized I've never finished a single one of them. Eight hours in, after three hours of grinding up to level 20 and fusing a force-nulling demon that can cast Media, Matador is dust, and the rest of the game has opened up to me. (And thanks, thread -- I found a couple of good hints here.) I am going to finish this game. I'm going to try to do it before Soul Hackers comes out, because I can't imagine playing two of them at the same time. We'll see how it goes.
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Mar 9, 2013 00:48
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Genpei Turtle posted:Well...actually this isn't accurate. SMT is a big huge million seller. Atlus USA may be small and European releases even tinier but SMT is almost at the level of Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy in terms of popularity in Japan. What!? You are out of your mind. SMT doesn't even come close to a million in Japan. Maybe in the snes days. But even Persona doesn't get near that now. These are the sales of the series in Japan from Media Create I stole from neogaf first number is first week sales second is the last known life to date (I'm pretty sure SJ ended up around 150k and P4G is about 240k): PS2 Persona 4 10/07/08 192.812 314.835 PS2 Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne 20/02/03 184.700 219.700 PS2 Persona 3 13/07/06 116.682 196.008 PS2 Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner 15/07/04 92.216 92.216 PS2 Persona 3: Fes 19/04/07 90.369 146.575 PS2 Devil Summoner 2: Raidou Kuzunoha Vs. King Abaddon 23/10/08 88.257 119.468 PSP Persona 29/04/09 79.192 93.453 NDS Etrian Odyssey II: Heroes of Lagaard 21/02/08 68.913 134.347 PS2 Devil Summoner: Raidou Kuzunoha Vs. The Soulless Army 02/03/06 63.833 86.552 NDS Megami Ibunroku: Devil Survivor 15/01/09 55.466 73.726 PS2 Digital Devil Saga: Avatar Tuner 2 27/01/05 51.246 51.246 PS2 Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne Maniax 29/01/04 37.400 47.900 NDS Etrian Odyssey 18/01/07 32.511 94.951 PSP Devil Summomer 22/12/05 13.000 13.000
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Mar 9, 2013 03:52
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MarsDragon posted:It's good to want things. It builds character. Attachment to high-definition graphics and 3D demons kills the soul.
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Mar 9, 2013 04:59
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Holy hell, Eternal Punishment is dark. I'm at the part where Tatsuya Sudou slaughters a bunch of people in the sanitarium, apparently tearing out their intestines. And then tells the people who call him to "Give that message to my f###kin' dad!" Also, people say gently caress a lot, though it is censored. I wonder if it still would have been censored if the PSP version had been localized, or if they would have just used different wording.
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Mar 9, 2013 05:03
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ImpAtom posted:Why so? The industry is in a really bad place at the moment precisely because developers do not know how to trim their budgets. Countless studios have died because they want to make a "AAA" title and the pure budget required for one kills them. That's not necessarily true. It's just knowing how to play it and use your budget wisely. It's the reason studios Platinum have survived all these years on the main console market while still having games that don't sell all that well. You just gotta be smart about knowing what you want and not wasting money pointlessly. Like ridiculous marketing blitzes, nearly the entirety of MGS4 (which is still a great game when you strip all the pointless poo poo), expensive voiceovers, expensive motion capture and etc. There is no need for any of this when something like Deadly Premonition can be a successful hit. It worked before for Catherine and they could easily try again for Persona 5. It's not even like the Persona games were hugely expensive games to make to begin with. They have random dungeons, a small world to explore and reused models from previous games. It's more about being minimalistic with the tech you have. It's not like budget games are exclusive to handhelds.
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Mar 9, 2013 06:15
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Proto Cloud posted:That's not necessarily true. It's just knowing how to play it and use your budget wisely. It's the reason studios Platinum have survived all these years on the main console market while still having games that don't sell all that well. Except that's not what happened. Sega lost money on basically every one of Platinum's games (as did Capcom before them, which is why Clover Studios no longer exists), and the only reason Bayonetta 2 is being made is because Nintendo showed up with a truck full of money when Sega said they weren't going to fund it. Artix fucked around with this message at 06:31 on Mar 9, 2013 |
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Mar 9, 2013 06:20
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Proto Cloud posted:There is no need for any of this when something like Deadly Premonition can be a successful hit. Deadly Premonition basically made no money at all.
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Mar 9, 2013 06:25
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Proto Cloud posted:That's not necessarily true. It's just knowing how to play it and use your budget wisely. It's the reason studios Platinum have survived all these years on the main console market while still having games that don't sell all that well. You just gotta be smart about knowing what you want and not wasting money pointlessly. Like ridiculous marketing blitzes, nearly the entirety of MGS4 (which is still a great game when you strip all the pointless poo poo), expensive voiceovers, expensive motion capture and etc. There is no need for any of this when something like Deadly Premonition can be a successful hit. Platinum Games has barely survived and that is because they know how to use a budget. You'll notice that all of their games are fairly short and designed for replay value over anything else, and even then they have trouble making their money back. Bayonetta 2 wasn't even going to get made until Nintendo agreed to publish it and Bayonetta was probably their most successful game pre-Rising. Likewise Deadly Premonition made almost no money at all. It wasn't a big success despite being a cult hit. A lot of people bought it after it dropped hugely in price and was being discounted, which isn't exactly a thrilling thing to happen to a game. It was well-received but you're kidding yourself if you think it was meaningfully profitable. Proto Cloud posted:It worked before for Catherine and they could easily try again for Persona 5. It's not even like the Persona games were hugely expensive games to make to begin with. They have random dungeons, a small world to explore and reused models from previous games. It's more about being minimalistic with the tech you have. It's not like budget games are exclusive to handhelds. The Persona 3 and 4 games were (relatively) cheap to make because they had assets to recycle. Persona 5 isn't going to be reusing PS2 models. Catherine 'worked' because it was an extremely simple game. It was a puzzle game with nice cutscenes. That is an entire magnitude away from even a basic RPG, let alone one with a hundred different Persona and a 40 hour plot. It was effectively a remake of the old game Tower of Babel with some nicer visuals. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Mar 9, 2013 |
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Mar 9, 2013 06:28
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ImpAtom posted:Likewise Deadly Premonition made almost no money at all. It wasn't a big success despite being a cult hit. A lot of people bought it after it dropped hugely in price and was being discounted, which isn't exactly a thrilling thing to happen to a game. Deadly Premonition, in the West, actually launched at that budget price. That was Ignition Entertainment's call. I remember buying it the week it came out for like $20 along with Heavy Rain. It crashed and burned even harder in Asia where they sold it at their $60 price point
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Mar 9, 2013 06:35
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Policenaut posted:Deadly Premonition, in the West, actually launched at that budget price. That was Ignition Entertainment's call. I remember buying it the week it came out for like $20 along with Heavy Rain. It crashed and burned even harder in Asia where they sold it at their $60 price point Yeah, I know. It launched at $20, bombed, and then was dropped down to something ridiculous like $5 on Amazon/Gamestop/ect where it finally started to sell. I actually bought it at $20 and enjoyed it twice as much as Heavy Rain. 
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Mar 9, 2013 06:39
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Joshlemagne posted:It's not about being on systems people own. I've seen lots of people harping on SMTIV for having terrible graphics and saying they basically want Nocturne but in HD. It kinda is about systems they own, though. I don't have a 3DS or a Vita and have no intention of getting one unless there's some crazy PS4 cross-functionality I actually care about with the Vita. I think it's silly to spend money like that on a portable game console in an era where everybody has smartphones, tablets, and/or e-readers. I wish the loving things would go ahead and crash in Japan too so JRPG developers would shift their attentions to making good mobile games and using the loving fortune to be made off those on next-gen games.
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Mar 9, 2013 06:48
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Zombies' Downfall posted:It kinda is about systems they own, though. I don't have a 3DS or a Vita and have no intention of getting one unless there's some crazy PS4 cross-functionality I actually care about with the Vita. I think it's silly to spend money like that on a portable game console in an era where everybody has smartphones, tablets, and/or e-readers. I wish the loving things would go ahead and crash in Japan too so JRPG developers would shift their attentions to making good mobile games and using the loving fortune to be made off those on next-gen games. JRPG developers are already making good mobile games. There are at least 2 mobile-phone new mainline SMT games (one takes place right before SMT2, I forget the other one) on Japanese mobile phones right now. Other big-name devs are doing the same. (FF4:TAS was originally a cell phone game too) They're just doing so entirely within the ecosystem of Japanese mobile phones, which is its own separate thing. They're starting to jump on the iOS/Android bandwagon but most of their offerings are shoddily programmed at the moment. And they're already making vast fortunes off it, as for some reason Japanese consumers are willing to put up with a level of DLC/IAP bullshit an order of magnitude greater than Western markets do. But the separation between handheld consoles and smartphones/tablets is not going to go away any time soon. I love playing games on my iPad as much as anyone but there are a lot of genres that are borderline unplayable without decent tactile feedback, which only a genuine controller can facilitate. Plus the ship has pretty much sailed on next-gen traditional consoles in Japan. With living space at such a premium and the inordinate amount of time your average Japanese person spends at school/work/on public transit/otherwise away from home, the shift to handheld consoles was inevitable once the restrictions on the hardware and battery life loosened enough. Quite frankly I don't think traditional consoles are ever going to make a comeback there, so the number of next-gen titles coming from Japanese companies is only going to get smaller, I'm afraid.
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Mar 9, 2013 07:19
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Zombies' Downfall posted:It kinda is about systems they own, though. I don't have a 3DS or a Vita and have no intention of getting one unless there's some crazy PS4 cross-functionality I actually care about with the Vita. I think it's silly to spend money like that on a portable game console in an era where everybody has smartphones, tablets, and/or e-readers. I wish the loving things would go ahead and crash in Japan too so JRPG developers would shift their attentions to making good mobile games and using the loving fortune to be made off those on next-gen games. Handhelds aren't going to crash and burn until a smartphone can perform the job of a handheld just as well.
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Mar 9, 2013 08:16
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Pomp posted:Handhelds aren't going to crash and burn until a smartphone can perform the job of a handheld just as well. Specifically, Nintendo handhelds aren't going to crash and burn mostly because they can't be instantly jailbroken to be handheld emulators nearly as easily as the Vita. Japan isn't really a console country, definitely not anywhere near as much as American percentage-wise.
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Mar 9, 2013 08:23
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Pomp posted:Handhelds aren't going to crash and burn until a smartphone can perform the job of a handheld just as well. This is basically the big problem with "smartphones are just as good." They certainly are for certain kinds of games but digital controls at the moment are entirely too awkward beyond a certain level. If they manage to find a fix for this or manage to find a way to include physical interaction on a smartphone (good luck with that, the touch controls are half the appeal,) then dedicated handhelds are going to go the way of the dodo, but not until then. More likely is that you'd start seeing dedicated "gaming smartphones" which are basically dedicated handhelds with smartphone features.
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Mar 9, 2013 08:26
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The only way I can see smart phones become an all purpose handheld is when the screen can morph and can grow buttons and then suck them back into the screen when it's not in game mode. Except smart plastic composites like that are decades away and the ones they currently have now can't work on consumer electronics of any size at all.
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Mar 9, 2013 08:36
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Zombies' Downfall posted:It kinda is about systems they own, though. I don't have a 3DS or a Vita and have no intention of getting one unless there's some crazy PS4 cross-functionality I actually care about with the Vita. I think it's silly to spend money like that on a portable game console in an era where everybody has smartphones, tablets, and/or e-readers. I wish the loving things would go ahead and crash in Japan too so JRPG developers would shift their attentions to making good mobile games and using the loving fortune to be made off those on next-gen games. See, I basically feel the opposite. Smartphones cost a loving fortune in Canada and I'd rather play my JRPGs on a system specifically made to play games, than on something that doesn't have buttons, or a control stick. I like all my gadgets to have distinct functions. I wouldn't play video games on an E-Reader any more than I'd read a novel on a PSP. Basically if it were up to me everything would be made for the 3DS. Everything.
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Mar 9, 2013 08:42
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WendigoJohnson posted:The only way I can see smart phones become an all purpose handheld is when the screen can morph and can grow buttons and then suck them back into the screen when it's not in game mode. E The Xperia Play sucked.
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Mar 9, 2013 09:03
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Pomp posted:Handhelds aren't going to crash and burn until a smartphone can perform the job of a handheld just as well. Smartphones (and tablets) perform the job of a handheld for like ninety percent of the traditional handheld market, in that they are very effective at distracting children and people on a toilet. Children and people on a toilet don't care about deep gameplay and fidelity of controls. The ten percent of people who are super into handheld games can't support a hardware platform by themselves. Certainly not a non nintendo one at least.
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Mar 9, 2013 11:30
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Zombies' Downfall posted:It kinda is about systems they own, though. I don't have a 3DS or a Vita and have no intention of getting one unless there's some crazy PS4 cross-functionality I actually care about with the Vita. I think it's silly to spend money like that on a portable game console in an era where everybody has smartphones, tablets, and/or e-readers. I wish the loving things would go ahead and crash in Japan too so JRPG developers would shift their attentions to making good mobile games and using the loving fortune to be made off those on next-gen games. Isn't that like saying it's silly to own a console when everyone has a pc? At this point roughly 90% of Atlus' output is on handhelds and every non-port SMT game in the previous generation was on ds (the rest were on psp) and it seems pretty obvious at this point they plan to continue on 3ds (possibly barring P5). Japan has had gaming-capable phones for a long time now and handhelds are still going strong there. If a system has games I want to play I'll get it even if I own some other device that could theoretically in some alternate dimension do the same thing (but worse).
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Mar 9, 2013 16:35
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kirbysuperstar posted:The Xperia Play sucked. How do I make it suck? Please help, mine has thus far been too awesome.
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Mar 9, 2013 20:08
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Sony was pretty retarded with how it handled it's exclusivity of the Xperia Minecraft. Typical Sony departmental discord since that was a Sony Ericsson deal that had nothing to do with PlayStation.
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Mar 9, 2013 21:36
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JumbocactuarX27 posted:How do I make it suck? Please help, mine has thus far been too awesome. Maybe suck was too harsh. Underwhelming perhaps?
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Mar 9, 2013 22:36
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kirbysuperstar posted:Maybe suck was too harsh. Underwhelming perhaps? That's understandable. Especially considering how Sony released a port of Crash Bandicoot 1 and then nothing else.
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Mar 9, 2013 22:42
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So uh, did anyone see that they're reprinting devil summoner 1 and 2? I hope they end up being like 20 bucks each. http://mobile.siliconera.com/siliconera/#!/entry/raidou-kuzunoha-returns-atlus-is-reprinting-the-ps2-devil-summoner,51392aa7d7fc7b56705d6142
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Mar 10, 2013 04:07
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I've been looking to get a new copy of Raidou 2 so I am very excited about this, now Atlus please reprint DDS so I can get new copies of those too.
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Mar 10, 2013 04:10
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Joshlemagne posted:Isn't that like saying it's silly to own a console when everyone has a pc? At this point roughly 90% of Atlus' output is on handhelds and every non-port SMT game in the previous generation was on ds (the rest were on psp) and it seems pretty obvious at this point they plan to continue on 3ds (possibly barring P5). Japan has had gaming-capable phones for a long time now and handhelds are still going strong there. If a system has games I want to play I'll get it even if I own some other device that could theoretically in some alternate dimension do the same thing (but worse). There are actually a lot of people saying that exact thing right now and with every generation game consoles become more like PCs and console and PC games become more of a singularity, so uh sort of? Digital controls definitely suck, but JRPGs are not exactly the most timing and control-sensitive genre where having to hit down twice instead of once or accidentally pressing the wrong button will result in a game over. And I was actually unaware that there were better mobile games of this sort in Japan, thanks Genpei.
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Mar 10, 2013 04:13
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