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Sir Kodiak posted:Many Republicans are neoliberal. Supporting world peace by buying Stark products is an extension of neoliberal philanthropy represented by such things as supporting breast cancer research by buying a particular model of electric mixer. Yeah but he does explicitly not want the government to interfere. Modern Neo-liberalism depends on the State for force projection of their ideals and institutions like the IMF for economic projection. Stark is, if anything, a modern Privateer or Mercenary - a dude who catches bad guys, and sells services to the local State (country), but is not under the control of and aggressively defends his independence from any given country.
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Mar 8, 2013 00:55
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DeimosRising posted:Stark doesn't change at all in Iron Man 2, that's (among the) reason(s) the film sucks. It sets him up to realize his achievements are built on a dishonest foundation, that his hubris is endangering his life, and he isn't really solving any problems - indeed he's hardly doing enough good to make up for all the harm he's done before - then it discards all that and it turns out his dad was a wizard-saint and all the people he worked with were just jealous jerks and Iron Man rules and he was right all along. I wasn't really implying that he was changing in Iron Man 2, but rather he was dealing with all the things brought on from the first movie. Because of the arc reactor and the attention Tony receives for it/Iron Man, Vanko comes out of the woodwork to seek revenge for his father. Because he created this amazing potential weapon, the US government wants him to turn it over and work with the military. SHIELD wants to deal with him for the Avengers Initiative. All this stuff is happening, and meanwhile he's dying and is trying to process what is happening and what he needs to do. It's not a movie about massive growth and change. It's a movie about the fallout of the first movie. And now Iron Man 3 seems like it'll be about the fallout of The Avengers.
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Mar 8, 2013 01:09
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Veib posted:Bridges was on either The Daily Show or Colbert Report a few months ago and he was completely The Dude. It was more awkwardly terrible than funny, though. I wonder if he's doing it intentionally at times because of how often it slips out. Like in Tron Legacy where he actually says "You're messing with my zen, man." in the voice of The Dude.
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Mar 8, 2013 01:53
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I think at one point he and the Dude must have just had this collision of zen and emerged like a butterfly from a cocoon of a mellowed out person.
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Mar 8, 2013 03:11
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Hewlett posted:Sounds pretty neoliberal to me, dude. You may be thinking of progressives, or the modern usage of 'liberal.'
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Mar 8, 2013 04:55
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feedmyleg posted:Yeah, I forget which site ran it but after the movie came out someone wrote an article where they tried to make sense of what Iron Man II's plot was in an earlier treatment before all the SHIELD stuff was jammed in there. The crux of the idea was that Tony's dad actually had screwed Venko's dad out of the plans and Tony's growth came from realizing that and taking responsibility, but that because Marvel wanted Howard Stark in Captain America villainizing him was nixed. Who knows if it was baseless or not, but it was a pretty convincing breakdown. Probably this one comparing it to the Fisher King. Everything about Iron Man 2 is great except for the most important part, the script. And Iron Man is a fundamentally conservative character, and the filmmakers haven't been interested in critiquing that. All his villains are Russian and Chinese for a reason. There's a Stan Lee quote floating around where he says that it was a deliberate choice to make a hero that represented everything 60s hippies opposed.
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Mar 8, 2013 05:44
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Omnomnomnivore posted:
Don't you think that this is problematic in of itself?
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Mar 8, 2013 06:11
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Intrusive Thoughts posted:I wonder if he's doing it intentionally at times because of how often it slips out. Like in Tron Legacy where he actually says "You're messing with my zen, man." in the voice of The Dude. Most of The Dude's wardrobe in Lebowski belonged to Bridges, and then there's his acceptance speech for Crazy Heart.
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Mar 8, 2013 06:12
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A human heart posted:Don't you think that this is problematic in of itself? Sure! I'd love to see Iron Man comics get the Starship Troopers treatment.
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Mar 8, 2013 07:25
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Apparently he was concerned that the Coen Brothers were stalking him because The Dude is so close to his 'normal'.
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Mar 8, 2013 11:15
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A human heart posted:Don't you think that this is problematic in of itself? Not unless you think good conservative fiction is an impossibility, which is just silly.
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Mar 8, 2013 12:40
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Any kind of fiction that isn't willing to examine its own foundation with a critical eye from time to time is problematic because it quickly turns into propaganda.
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Mar 8, 2013 14:26
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Travis343 posted:Any kind of fiction that isn't willing to examine its own foundation with a critical eye from time to time is problematic because it quickly turns into propaganda. That, and all the good conservative films(Red Dawn,300, battle: Los Angeles) are pretty much as anti imperialist as can be. Or to paraphrase the poo poo out of SMG:"[these fillms show that]...some conservatives have lovely values, but they are nonetheless valuable allies against imperialism". Iron Mon, on the other hand, LOVES imperialism to the point where Tony Stark makes snide remarks about terrorists living in caves...that turn out to be completely correct, since the terrorists to live in caves etc etc. It's extra funny regarding the Mandarin, because while the racism of the character is deplorable, if the movie actually had the balls to say"no, the Mandarin is an evil chinese dude that get support from the chinese government, which is also evil, incidentally"it would have been a genuinely ballsy and inspiring call to arms for the actually important values of liberalism(freedom of speech,liberty etc). Instead we get Ben Kingsley playing a weird frankenstein esque mishmash of every minority group that has ever gone against america, specifically to make the movie acceptable in China. Jesus christ this movie looks bad.
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Mar 8, 2013 16:39
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Travis343 posted:Any kind of fiction that isn't willing to examine its own foundation with a critical eye from time to time is problematic because it quickly turns into propaganda. I suppose I'm able to distinguish between propaganda and art that holds a viewpoint contrary to my own.
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Mar 8, 2013 16:43
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Hellbunny posted:That, and all the good conservative films(Red Dawn,300, battle: Los Angeles) are pretty much as anti imperialist as can be. Or to paraphrase the poo poo out of SMG:"[these fillms show that]...some conservatives have lovely values, but they are nonetheless valuable allies against imperialism". Iron Mon, on the other hand, LOVES imperialism to the point where Tony Stark makes snide remarks about terrorists living in caves...that turn out to be completely correct, since the terrorists to live in caves etc etc. My feeling is is that its less what you said and maybe the fact that EVIL CHINAMAN is both recognizably racist and is probably not as powerful imagery as when the character first appeared. Jesus Christ this movie looks great!
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Mar 8, 2013 20:20
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Hellbunny posted:That, and all the good conservative films(Red Dawn,300, battle: Los Angeles) are pretty much as anti imperialist as can be. Or to paraphrase the poo poo out of SMG:"[these fillms show that]...some conservatives have lovely values, but they are nonetheless valuable allies against imperialism". Iron Mon, on the other hand, LOVES imperialism to the point where Tony Stark makes snide remarks about terrorists living in caves...that turn out to be completely correct, since the terrorists to live in caves etc etc. So, do you think the way Mandarin was depicted in the early comics was genuinely ballsy?
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Mar 9, 2013 18:45
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Rough Lobster posted:My feeling is is that its less what you said and maybe the fact that EVIL CHINAMAN is both recognizably racist and is probably not as powerful imagery as when the character first appeared. To be honest, Mandarin works so long as he doesn't run around looking like Fu Manchu. The classic look is pretty sketchy and lame these days, but there isn't much wrong with the concept. Evil Chinese scientist, martial arts practitioner, and owner of some powerful rings. EDIT Either way, I am looking forward to seeing how he is portrayed in this movie.
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Mar 9, 2013 22:32
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Grendels Dad posted:So, do you think the way Mandarin was depicted in the early comics was genuinely ballsy?
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Mar 10, 2013 05:14
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TetsuoTW posted:Just a heads-up, it is in fact possible to depict an evil Chinese man without making him a cartoonish, racist stereotype. I bet if they made a character named The Mandarin actually Chinese and had him be a supervillain, China would actually blacklist all of Marvel/Disney's movies for the year.
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Mar 10, 2013 13:52
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Peter Sellers played a good Fu Manchu. What's up with Thor? IIRC in Avengers he just shows up, but at the end of his movie the teleporter was broken. And Natalie Portman is chasing these reguularly-timed storms? Were other Asgardians porting to Earth every day or something before Thor was banished?
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Mar 11, 2013 03:16
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effectual posted:What's up with Thor? IIRC in Avengers he just shows up, but at the end of his movie the teleporter was broken. And Natalie Portman is chasing these reguularly-timed storms? Were other Asgardians porting to Earth every day or something before Thor was banished? As Loki said in Thor, the Bifrost is just one way people can enter and exit Asgard. Heimdall also can see stuff across space on other worlds. He probably told Odin and Thor about the Tesseract and Loki being on Earth. Odin then used an incredible amount of energy to transport Thor to Earth to retrieve them. Thor and Loki are able to return to Asgard only because they have the Tesseract.
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Mar 11, 2013 03:29
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effectual posted:Were other Asgardians porting to Earth every day or something before Thor was banished? If you'd spent the last thousand years eating infinitely-resurrecting goats, you'd use the portal to visit a place with some decent restaurants too.
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Mar 11, 2013 03:31
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I actually just rewatched the Avengers and forgotten how much I loved that drat film. I wish they would make a Hulk movie. Is Natalie Portman in the new upcoming Thor film?
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Mar 11, 2013 03:38
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Hollis posted:I actually just rewatched the Avengers and forgotten how much I loved that drat film. I wish they would make a Hulk movie. Is Natalie Portman in the new upcoming Thor film? Yes, and I think so will Stellan Saarsgard. Not sure about Kat Dennings, though.
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Mar 11, 2013 03:43
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The MSJ posted:Yes, and I think so will Stellan Saarsgard. Not sure about Kat Dennings, though. God I hope not.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:12
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The MSJ posted:Yes, and I think so will Stellan Saarsgard. Not sure about Kat Dennings, though. I'm pretty sure she's back for it as well. Rhyno posted:God I hope not. 
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Mar 11, 2013 04:13
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DFu4ever posted:I'm pretty sure she's back for it as well. OH MY GOD SHE HAS HUGE TITS. And she's a loving horrible actress.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:19
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Hollis posted:I actually just rewatched the Avengers and forgotten how much I loved that drat film. I wish they would make a Hulk movie. They already made 2.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:19
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Kat Dennings rules.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:20
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penismightier posted:Kat Dennings rules. Disagreeing with you is NOT Mod Sass and you are wrong!
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Mar 11, 2013 04:27
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She's certainly not the main thing wrong with Thor (what's up with all the dutch angles?) and she's okay in Defendor. And what does her bra size have to do with her acting?
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Mar 11, 2013 04:28
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penismightier posted:Kat Dennings rules. I've been fine with her in everything else I've ever seen her in, but her character in Thor was loving useless.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:28
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Rhyno posted:OH MY GOD SHE HAS HUGE TITS. Which you never get to see at all in Thor. Chris Hemsworth was the most scantily-clad actor in the whole movie, surely a feat in a movie with Kat Dennings. Marvel knows most comic book nerds and action movie fans are men, so they pull in the ladies with a very charismatic actor going topless. They did it again with Captain America.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:29
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effectual posted:She's certainly not the main thing wrong with Thor (what's up with all the dutch angles?) and she's okay in Defendor. And what does her bra size have to do with her acting? She's the absolute worst thing in Thor. In a cast that good she's the weakest link.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:31
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TheJoker138 posted:I've been fine with her in everything else I've ever seen her in, but her character in Thor was loving useless. Yeah but so were all the other characters besides Thor. Even Loki was pretty useless.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:31
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Rhyno posted:She's the absolute worst thing in Thor. In a cast that good she's the weakest link. Why, what's wrong with her? I found her very charming.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:32
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penismightier posted:Why, what's wrong with her? I found her very charming. She was absolutely useless. What does she add to the film other than stupid one liners? You could replace her with a sign sitting in a bucket of sand.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:35
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Rhyno posted:She was absolutely useless. What does she add to the film other than stupid one liners? You could replace her with a sign sitting in a bucket of sand. Naw, I don't think so. She didn't get much to work with but she took her small thankless part and made it memorable and fun. Contributes to the general levity and slice-of-life quality that makes Thor the second best of all the Marvel films.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:37
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penismightier posted:Naw, I don't think so. She didn't get much to work with but she took her small thankless part and made it memorable and fun. Contributes to the general levity and slice-of-life quality that makes Thor the second best of all the Marvel films. I agree with your ranking of the film but her stupid "meow meow" bullshit is incredibly grating. The film would have been every bit as good without her.
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Mar 11, 2013 04:41
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My opinion of Kat Dennings is clouded by that stupid sitcom she's on that I catch moments of whenever I forget to change the channel. 2 broke girls I think
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Mar 11, 2013 05:52
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