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I'm pretty sure all the N64 FPS games I own look much better than this. Retro aesthetics!  They also didn't say anything about alternate control schemes. Now I'm worried, how am I supposed to play Visorman on the OGLAF if I can't use the Turok controls ( 
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Mar 11, 2013 07:46
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Dr. Ohnoman posted:I'm pretty sure all the N64 FPS games I own look much better than this. Retro aesthetics! Like the worst part about that screenshot is that the game has no aesthetics, 5 to 1 odds many of those assets weren't created by him. Look at the quality of the texture on the rock, and the ground next to it. Now look at the texture work on the gun. Even if a goldeneye graphics indie game could look good, this still wouldn't be it. I'd be lying though if I said that "32/64 bit style" games aren't going to start creeping up across the indie games scene. poo poo that was part of the reason that half the 1 week OUYA dev party games looked like they were designed for an Atari Jaguar.
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Mar 11, 2013 08:24
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Red_Mage posted:I'd be lying though if I said that "32/64 bit style" games aren't going to start creeping up across the indie games scene. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=122301377 Partly, among other styles.
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Mar 11, 2013 08:35
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Edit: ^^^^Man, that game is "We Couldn't Come Up With Our Own Ideas So Buy This Retro poo poo You Nostalgic Suckers: The Game." ^^^^Red_Mage posted:I don't think you understand how nostalgia works.  Super Meat Boy might be a sort of reimagining of N/N+, but it's a drat good one. The controls are incredibly tight, the presentation is "wacky," but not quite "monkey cheese," and the difficulty curve increases in what I'd consider a proper manner from "okay, that's easy" to "'gently caress you' hard," whereas N got straight up rude pretty quickly and was boring as gently caress to look at after a while. Orcs Must Die! is another fine example. Excellent presentation, good controls (even on a console), addicting gameplay, and a nice evolution on the Tower Defense genre. What the indie crowd doesn't seem to realize is that it still takes time, manpower and investment to create a good game. You can't just puke out some half-assed idea, slap some "RETRO PIXEL ARTZ" all over it and make a mint. The look of the game is probably the least important part; if the gameplay's solid and you market well, who gives a gently caress if it looks like a 16-bit game? Can't wait until the whole tired trend presses the gently caress on. TheGreatGildersneeze fucked around with this message at 08:43 on Mar 11, 2013 |
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Mar 11, 2013 08:37
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kirbysuperstar posted:http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=122301377 See, that is about as up its own rear end as gaming can get (IMO) but at least like it seems to make an effort. Each style is internally consistent and looks (at a glance) more or less period accurate. The music was fitting, and for what it is it looks like it was worked on. Outside a game about eras of games though, I can think of almost no appeal to most of the quirks and limitations of late 90s gaming. Then again the survival horror thread on these very forums really likes tank controls, some things may never be explained. TheGreatGildersneeze posted:What the indie crowd doesn't seem to realize is that it still takes time, manpower and investment to create a good game. You can't just puke out some half-assed idea, slap some "RETRO PIXEL ARTZ" all over it and make a mint. The look of the game is probably the least important part; if the gameplay's solid and you market well, who gives a gently caress if it looks like a 16-bit game? Can't wait until the whole tired trend presses the gently caress on. What are you talking about, I am sure that Fist of Awesome will outsell Halo of War: Black Ops 3 because it is not like the vapid poo poo that the plebs like. It is coming to the OHJOY don't you know. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzaChzyYOhA Red_Mage fucked around with this message at 08:47 on Mar 11, 2013 |
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Mar 11, 2013 08:44
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Red_Mage posted:What are you talking about, I am sure that Fist of Awesome will outsell Halo of War: Black Ops 3 because it is not like the vapid poo poo that the plebs like. It is coming to the OHJOY don't you know.
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Mar 11, 2013 08:54
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Red_Mage posted:Each style is internally consistent and looks (at a glance) more or less period accurate. That's pretty much my issue with 'retraux' throwbacks. I'm really sick of seeing "OMG 8 BITS" and the loving thing is natively 1920x1080, has 16 million colours, HDR and bloom out the rear end, etc. Just.. gently caress! Pick a console, look at it's limitations and stick to those. There was a game a while back that I think ended up being part of an Indie Royale bundle that was kind of Contra-like and actually stuck to NES limitations and I appreciated it a lot more than something like Fist of Awesome.
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Mar 11, 2013 09:16
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How dare you miserable toadies doubt the great Julie Uhrman. Grab onto your balls because you are about to meet your god. You degenerate slimebags don't deserve what you are going to get in the next 13 minutes or so, so get down on your knees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCKShpxdDkE&t=44s Minecraft on the OUYA Edit: the dude who made this video only had to go through 3 different versions to find one that would sideload correctly, and then he had to use a special sixaxis ps3 app to play it with a ps3 countroller because the OUYA's didn't work Red_Mage fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Mar 11, 2013 |
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Mar 11, 2013 09:56
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And before you ignorant cocksuckers start thinking that the OUYA cannot do AAA graphics, here's indie AAA title Dead Trigger which doesn't need the power of those loud unneeded big 3 to look better than Call of Duty! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq83J1NIqQ8 the uploaders excuse for why it runs terribly is that, like all the other games he's been showing off for his machinima monetized channel, he pirated it and probably sideloaded the wrong apk for the hardware. Peak ouya Red_Mage fucked around with this message at 10:04 on Mar 11, 2013 |
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Mar 11, 2013 10:02
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I should be the target market for early 3d nostalgia but I really struggle to imagine early 3d could appeal to anyone. It looked bad at the time and now looks plain awful. The only exception would be horror games because the fuzziness leaves space for your imagination to make things scarier. Even then that is an aesthetic choice rather than nostalgia for the poor graphics.
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Mar 11, 2013 10:04
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I could totally get down with some Sega Model 2 nostalgia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2Gr813zqr4
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Mar 11, 2013 10:06
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Red_Mage posted:I don't think you understand how nostalgia works. Argh, I really don't want to argue with you, since I really do agree with the general thrust of what you're saying. Platforms like PC, Android, iOS, XBLA, PSN, WiiWare, XBLIG and on & on (not to mention Greenlight & Kickstarter) have definitely done exactly what you say. It's incomparably easier to make a game and get it released in a way other people can play it. There is an important addendum, though. The difference is the high-end games. I mean, not the highest end games. The very biggest games of any given era were never very experimental, because of a pretty basic risk-mitigation issue. Once you cross a certain budget threshold, you can't afford for it to fail anymore, no matter what, so you gotta do whatever you can to avoid that. That's kind of a basic, reasonable business practice, too, so it's not going to go away - no, not even with the magical LEON BUDDHA. The biggest games are the same as ever, but what's changed, at least a bit, is the "big but not biggest" games. That category of B+/A- game has traditionally been a great area to see games that had a really nice mix of polish & innovation. That kind of category has seriously faded, even just during this generation. You don't seem them much at all anymore. Except... you sort of do. It seems like what has happened is that while the first-class games' budget sizes have increased, the B+/A- budget sizes didn't follow suit. So, you don't get games that are "a little less expensive than the biggest games, and a little more experimental"... but you do get games that cost about as much as a PS2 B+/A- game. And then they just end up on XBLA or Steam. This is the $15-$20+ market that seems to be growing into itself. Good examples of this (regardless of quality) are Mark of the Ninja, Trine 2, From Dust, or Quantum Conundrum. That's why I say that while they don't exist, they do exist. Games as big as B+ games from past eras still exist, it's just that games like that with a budget that would match today's biggest games are much rarer than in the past. This issue won't really be addressed by the OUYA, though. Not even in the best case. (yup, this was a total tangent, I just like talking about stuff on the internet... I mean, I did pay $10 for it) It's something that'll take more of a general change in business models - things like pricing or development costs.
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Mar 11, 2013 10:07
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Fergus Mac Roich posted:I could totally get down with some Sega Model 2 nostalgia. Someone is actually making a new, good looking Daytona style racing game for the PC. I think they had a Kickstarter for it, so it's at least as credible as OVARIES. XboxPants posted:Argh, I really don't want to argue with you Yeah, right 
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Mar 11, 2013 10:13
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kirbysuperstar posted:That's pretty much my issue with 'retraux' throwbacks. I'm really sick of seeing "OMG 8 BITS" and the loving thing is natively 1920x1080, has 16 million colours, HDR and bloom out the rear end, etc. Just.. gently caress! Pick a console, look at it's limitations and stick to those. I've heard it a lot on these boards, but I don't understand this mindset at all. Why should you get excited about something that literally looks like an NES game when you can do better? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpU5NTrgiL0 This game has simple pixel art that I think looks inherently appealing, and then on top of that has dynamic lighting with normal mapping and crazy particle effects. I think the result is cool as hell, but it's something you could never get just by doing the "PURE RETRO REALISM" approach. Why not create new visual styles that have only now become possible? Red_Mage posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCKShpxdDkE&t=44s Android Minecraft does suck compared to the PC version, but it's been getting way better and there's no reason it couldn't be good. I don't think this will actually happen, but with the OUYA's design it'd be cool to see a Minecraft-block-skinned unit. I bet people'd eat up a $99 Minecraft novelty machine that also happens to do some other stuff if ya want. At least, moreso than normal OUYA, gotta give me that. kirbysuperstar posted:Yeah, right Heh, all right, I do want to debate, but I didn't want to seem contrary and give the impression I disagreed with him. Better? 
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Mar 11, 2013 10:20
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I'll be honest and say that I'd love to see a game mimic PS1/N64 era aesthetics as a tribute, but it'd have to be really really good and self-aware enough to avoid the common gameplay pitfalls of that era. Visorman is sorely lacking in that self-awareness.kirbysuperstar posted:Someone is actually making a new, good looking Daytona style racing game for the PC. I think they had a Kickstarter for it, so it's at least as credible as OVARIES.
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Mar 11, 2013 10:24
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The Kins posted:It even picked up a publisher who are handling an Android port Oh, cool beans. I'm glad, because it seems like the devs were putting in quite a bit of effort. Unlike Visorman.
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Mar 11, 2013 10:27
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This is literally 'xbox pants trying to get the last word: the thread'
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Mar 11, 2013 10:37
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kirbysuperstar posted:Oh, cool beans. I'm glad, because it seems like the devs were putting in quite a bit of effort. Unlike Visorman. I think it'd be possible to make a game with a visual style that evokes a PS1/N64 era game and wasn't a horrible mess like that game. To me, though, the best way would include doing things that would make it "not pure retro". Things like antialiasing, a further draw distance, perhaps HD, etc. We've come a long way since then. The body animation could be way better, and modern physics could be included. People have also done more to figure styles that look halfway decent with a low poly count. Zineth is the best looking example I know of that tries to do anything like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCr5twS6xc8 Zineth is cel-shaded, so that's kind of a cheat. Even so, those environments have some god-drat simple geometry that give an idea of something that could be done in a PS1 style. But, even then, Zineth's style is divisive. A lot of people really do love it, and it got pretty good press and reception on these forums, but some people are definitely not into it. That's probably the best you can hope for doing something like that. edit: cat doter posted:This is literally 'xbox pants trying to get the last word: the thread' Yes.
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Mar 11, 2013 10:45
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I do generally try to avoid double posting but the OUYA Board Chairman just sent out a tweet that really shows just how confident this company is in their success: https://twitter.com/roybahat/status/311013220980764672
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Mar 11, 2013 10:50
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Retweeted by Sam Kennedy. Hoooboy.
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Mar 11, 2013 10:58
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I sort of disagree with OUyAPants that modern games are "too big to fail" and companies simply aren't willing to take risks after investing a certain amount of money. It has basically been Nintendo's business model for decades to do weird, experimental stuff with their biggest franchises, innovating and being creative along the way. Even if you go back to the N64, Mario was dramatically and drastically different from any of the 2D platformers. Yes, they eventually went back to the 2D platformer well, but they haven't abandoned making Mario games that totally shakeup the formula. As well, you have games like Mass Effect that certainly have similarities to other games (like Deus Ex), but really stretch the definitions of what it means to be an FPS or an RPG, and you can't argue that that series didn't have a massive budget behind it. It may not be entirely original, but it does stretch conventions.
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Mar 11, 2013 11:00
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The Kins posted:I'll be honest and say that I'd love to see a game mimic PS1/N64 era aesthetics as a tribute, but it'd have to be really really good and self-aware enough to avoid the common gameplay pitfalls of that era. Visorman is sorely lacking in that self-awareness. I already backed 90s Arcade Racer, naturally, but it has its own visual style(a good one) that is very distinct from the nostalgic we-just-discovered-textures quadrangular nonsense that I love.
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Mar 11, 2013 11:20
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I can't help but think that if Mario were a modern franchise based on 2D platforming and they went 3D platforming ala Mario 64 there'd be legions of fanboys going IT'S NOT MARIO, THEY RUINED MARIO. The reaction to Metal Gear Rising made me want to punch a whole lot of people. I hope they do something really goddamn cool with the next Mario. Galaxy owned.
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Mar 11, 2013 12:15
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XboxPants posted:The difference is the high-end games. I mean, not the highest end games. The very biggest games of any given era were never very experimental, because of a pretty basic risk-mitigation issue. Once you cross a certain budget threshold, you can't afford for it to fail anymore, no matter what, so you gotta do whatever you can to avoid that. That's kind of a basic, reasonable business practice, too, so it's not going to go away - no, not even with the magical LEON BUDDHA. Do you honestly feel that way about say, GTA3?
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Mar 11, 2013 12:33
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The Dave posted:Do you honestly feel that way about say, GTA3? No, and there are plenty of other examples like that, too. It's certainly not a rule. And, although I do think it is a tendency, I can't think of any easy way for me to prove it, especially since most game budgets aren't openly known. I suppose I could try to find respected people talking about it, but I don't feel the need to go that far. It feels like it's too much of a difficult, murky topic to have a solid discussion about. It doesn't seem like there's much productive discussion to be had very easily.
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Mar 11, 2013 12:47
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XboxPants posted:No, and there are plenty of other examples like that, too. It's certainly not a rule. And, although I do think it is a tendency, I can't think of any easy way for me to prove it, especially since most game budgets aren't openly known. I suppose I could try to find respected people talking about it, but I don't feel the need to go that far. It feels like it's too much of a difficult, murky topic to have a solid discussion about. It doesn't seem like there's much productive discussion to be had very easily. Then why the gently caress did you even bring it up. In your own words, your assertion is not easily provable (at least by you) and you don't feel like digging for proof. Besides, since when has the lack of a productive discussion stopped you from opening up your fat retarded mouth.
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Mar 11, 2013 13:05
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They chose the wrong song for that trailer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmVagnlM-Ys It's even the exact right length!
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Mar 11, 2013 13:11
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XboxPants posted:No, and there are plenty of other examples like that, too. It's certainly not a rule. And, although I do think it is a tendency, I can't think of any easy way for me to prove it, especially since most game budgets aren't openly known. I suppose I could try to find respected people talking about it, but I don't feel the need to go that far. It feels like it's too much of a difficult, murky topic to have a solid discussion about. It doesn't seem like there's much productive discussion to be had very easily. XboxPants posted:It's like any specialized field. If someone wants to figure out what's coming up in science, or economics, or politics, or any deep field and you're not an expert yourself, their personal judgments are basically worth nothing. You may guess right, but it'll only be by chance. Instead, you need to find the people that do actually know what's going on, and base your judgment off of them.
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Mar 11, 2013 14:09
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Atlas Hugged posted:
My argument wasn't very well supported. If you're trying to say that you are totally right,. And that's why when I said it, I wasn't arrogant and didn't say that anyone who disagrees is an idiot or crazy or anything like that. And that's why when someone questioned me, I quickly conceded that I didn't have anything offhand to back it up, and I didn't try to insist that I was right. I did come to this idea by hearing professionals talking about it, but not usually in articles just on that topic - it's the kind of thing that I've seen and heard from more knowledgeable people just in random places - articles, podcast discussions, etc. So it would be harder to search for. But I'll take a look.
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Mar 11, 2013 14:38
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My point was more that given how you made such an insane rambling post about people reserving judgment making for people who had things like perfect knowledge, you probably shouldn't make any unsupported assertions. But be careful, because when you do try and support yourself, you end up claiming a lawyer's office is the OUYA corporate suite.
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Mar 11, 2013 14:41
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The OUAGADOUGOU will justify its existence once Ashens gets a hold of it.
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Mar 11, 2013 14:54
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Atlas Hugged posted:My point was more that given how you made such an insane rambling post about people reserving judgment making for people who had things like perfect knowledge, you probably shouldn't make any unsupported assertions. But be careful, because when you do try and support yourself, you end up claiming a lawyer's office is the OUYA corporate suite. No one has perfect knowledge. There's a middle ground to be had. You just have to recognize when your knowledge is so limited that there is someone else that can make a better decision than you can. I think that's the simplest way of saying it. So, you guys seemed to want me to back up what I said so I guess I'll go make an effort: XboxPants posted:That category of B+/A- game has traditionally been a great area to see games that had a really nice mix of polish & innovation. That kind of category has seriously faded, even just during this generation. You don't seem them much at all anymore. quote:We hear a lot of talk. At gaming events, at press conferences. At private functions or over dinner with well-connected friends in the industry. People talk, even when they shouldn't. And we listen, even when we can't quote them. I'll see if I can find one for my other major assertion, that the biggest-budget games tend to stick to established formulas in order to mitigate risk. Though I'm pretty surprised people really find that one hard to believe. Remember, for every Grand Theft Auto 3, there's a GTA4, 5, Vice City, and San Andreas, each one with a bigger budget than the last.
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Mar 11, 2013 14:59
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Wovon man nicht spielen kann, darüber muss man schweigen. -Kurt Cobain
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Mar 11, 2013 15:01
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The real Leon Budd fought in the hell that was World War 2 and had to come home to live in the hell that is New Jersey. And Xboxpants honors his memory by dick-riding an android stick. Shameful.
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Mar 11, 2013 15:05
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And here's the other part: (though it should be noted that while this is generally the case, there is an exception at the start of new console cycles, when companies believe there is more room for innovation)XboxPants posted:The very biggest games of any given era were never very experimental, because of a pretty basic risk-mitigation issue. Once you cross a certain budget threshold, you can't afford for it to fail anymore, no matter what, so you gotta do whatever you can to avoid that. That's kind of a basic, reasonable business practice, too, so it's not going to go away. Here's Ed McMillen, since you guys seem to respect his opinion so much: Ed Mcmillen posted:The blockbuster video game model is going down in flames mostly due to the economy and the fact that small budget games are getting a ton of attention these days. A blockbuster video game can’t ever take risks, it has to stick to what it has done in the past or it risks losing millions. Huge budget games will almost always be games you have already played. So you guys can gently caress off. (well... just those of you who were assholes about it. there's nothing inherently wrong with asking someone to back up a claim.) XboxPants fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Mar 11, 2013 |
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Mar 11, 2013 15:08
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XboxPants posted:And here's the other part: (though it should be noted that while this is generally the case, there is an exception at the start of new console cycles, when companies believe there is more room for innovation) OH NO GUYS, Ed McMillen also said the same dumb thing! I guess we can gently caress right off! 
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Mar 11, 2013 15:14
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echopapa posted:The OUAGADOUGOU will justify its existence once Ashens gets a hold of it. Oh poo poo, I never thought of that. That'll be a brilliant video.
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Mar 11, 2013 15:16
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ReV VAdAUL posted:I should be the target market for early 3d nostalgia but I really struggle to imagine early 3d could appeal to anyone. It looked bad at the time and now looks plain awful. The only exception would be horror games because the fuzziness leaves space for your imagination to make things scarier. Even then that is an aesthetic choice rather than nostalgia for the poor graphics. When people actually play old early 3D games its solely about the actual gameplay being good enough to make up for the way they look. Twisted Metal 1 and 2 look like rear end but I'll still go out of my way to play them because the action is fun. The thing is that the people who are just roughly approximating an era's look for their crappy new game, they're not bothering to make the games that much fun to play on their own. It's the same way with a ton of the "lolz I don't wanna draw 2d artwork real good so I'll just make things pixelated and claim it's 8 bit!!!" games, those honestly tend to be rather unpleasant to look at because you need to put skill and effort into making "8 bit" graphics that are also pleasant. The "bad early 3d" thing is just another example of how most of the people trying to pull nostalgia forget that it's not enough to do just that.
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Mar 11, 2013 15:18
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:OH NO GUYS, Ed McMillen also said the same dumb thing! I guess we can gently caress right off! You're right, just his opinion wouldn't be enough on its own. Luckily, that link I gave you will lead you to an article that also supports the idea. If you think the idea that "developers like to avoid risky things, like innovation, in their biggest budget games" is a "dumb idea" - even when linked to an article that backs that view - you're a loving moron that doesn't have any loving clue what a video game industry is.
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Mar 11, 2013 15:21
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I really don't feel like digging for the information myself but if you bought something that is in the Googeplay store, could you play it on the BROOHAHA too or do you have to buy it from their store. Also is their a guideline yet on games that will be rejected other than blatant porn games yet?
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Mar 11, 2013 15:25
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