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The Entire Universe posted:Are weapon upgrade parts just random chance pickups? Or is it a mix of some specific location (like the one guy in the hurricane/bell puzzle room) and random pickup? I'm in the "hope you like stealth kills/wolves" woods after Ol' Axe-Back Roth bites the dust and am currently stuck with all of the second weapons, hoping they all come along by the end, which honestly can't be that far now. Weapon parts are random, but there are scripted parts of the story where you automatically get upgraded. That said, by the time I got to Shipwreck Beach, I had all max level weapons. I made sure I checked every crate and salvaged every dead body in every area leading up to Shipwreck Beach.
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Mar 14, 2013 13:49
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Seedge posted:I'm still puzzled by the reviews to this game treating it as a GOTY contender. It's Uncharted. Every time I ran straight forwards while things exploded around me, I thought "Yep, done this before.". Combat was just plain dull: bad guys would crouch behind cover but leave their head out for an arrow to the eye. Only the fight in Shantytown took a few goes because there were just so many of them. Have you seen the competition? Lately we got Assassin's Creed 3, from the most acclaimed adventure game series of our age, where you automatically run, jump, climb, dive, swim, hide by keeping the same one button pressed. Stay tuned for AC4, where you do the same stuff on boats, and your character is blond this time, that's a loving revolution right there. Not to mention everyone's looking forward to the new, yearly Modern Warfare, the first person shooter that invented assisted aim. Can't wait to see the kill-streaks specials this year! Other pretty solid contenders: Sim City, an always-online game you couldn't play for several days at launch, featuring small maps that have invisible walls all around them, where if you put a huge rear end hospital on a street and want to improve the quality of said street you also need to take the hospital down and rebuild it. And how can we forget Crysis 3, a game no one plays anymore one month after release, where being able to one shot everyone with a bow without breaking invisibility was somehow a design choice that made it into retail because "it looked cool on the box art". Of course Tomb Raider is a GOTY contender, come on. It's a stellar game if you consider the competition.
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Mar 14, 2013 14:48
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The combat is easy, true. Even on the hard difficulty. It's mechanically sound though, and enjoyable. The level design is also really cool, especially the whaler suspended on wires at the end of the gondola, and the beach full of shipwrecks and WWII gun emplacements. Really I think this is a fantastic game that's not too taxing, it's good for just blowing off some steam and enjoying the story.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:02
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I think people are forgetting that GTA5 is launching this year or maybe even the Last of Us. I agree with him. I felt that the game was kind of bare to be a GOTY contender. I beat the game and really had no urge to pick it up and play again.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:03
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Hilariously, Last Of Us seems to be getting by on the  you're killing PEOPLE WITH FAMILIES thing that a lot of folk thought Tomb Raider would be. 
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Mar 14, 2013 15:06
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poptart_fairy posted:Hilariously, Last Of Us seems to be getting by on the I think a lot of games similar are going to start getting that kind of criticism unless they actually handle it well in the game. Both Uncharted 2 and Tomb Raider kind of ignore it with Uncharted 2 having one throw away line alluding to it and not much else.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:11
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Is the problem that graphical fidelity and gameplay has reached a point where people are failing to realize that the games are still basically a shooting gallery and not an actual murder/lethal force simulator? Did people react this way when HOGAN'S ALLEY was in arcades?
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Mar 14, 2013 15:23
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teagone posted:Weapon parts are random, but there are scripted parts of the story where you automatically get upgraded. That said, by the time I got to Shipwreck Beach, I had all max level weapons. I made sure I checked every crate and salvaged every dead body in every area leading up to Shipwreck Beach. Wait, so if you had all the upgrades by the time you got to the beach, what happened when Jonah gives you the upgraded bow on the beach? Did you just get the exact same one as the one you had?
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Mar 14, 2013 15:25
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The issue is the cinematic nature of these games, that make such gaming conventions it more apparent or stand out more. Last of Us seems to be willing to address that though and or aknowledge it though.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:26
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Honest Thief posted:The issue is the cinematic nature of these games, that make such gaming conventions it more apparent or stand out more. Last of Us seems to be willing to address that though and or aknowledge it though. How though? To me all the footage released so far seems like exactly the same oh woe killer of men  thing that nonetheless rewards you for murder and represents your opponents as rapists and psychopaths.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:27
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poptart_fairy posted:How though? To me all the footage released so far seems like exactly the same oh woe killer of men
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Mar 14, 2013 15:31
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AlternateAccount posted:Did people react this way when HOGAN'S ALLEY was in arcades? Those tin cans were full of food for orphans, man.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:32
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Because dude, a game where someone just stands around struggling with moral questions or whatever might make for a good book or movie, but not an interactive video game. Most games employ lots of killing/action because it gives you something to actually do. I'm not saying it's a good system but i'm not sure what to do to change it (and still actually sell games). And I don't think anybody actually would want to play a game where you, the "hero" participate in the murder of tons of people who weren't actively trying to kill you, first. Sure there are a lot of games with no violence at all, and the interaction requires only puzzle solving or other moving around type stuff, but those almost never sell to the extent most big developers would need to recoup costs. Chillmatic fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 14, 2013 15:34
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There should have been a scene where Lara kills someone and sam tries to tell her how cool she is. Lara would turn to her, take a draw on her cigarette and say "Please, Sam. He had a family."
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Mar 14, 2013 15:42
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Reveilled posted:There should have been a scene where Lara kills someone and sam tries to tell her how cool she is. Metal Gear Rising pretty much did this and still managed to be awesome.
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Mar 14, 2013 15:57
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The problem, I think, is that the enemies going from 8-bit space invaders to defined humans who have personalities and dialogue and such has really driven home that (even if those people are bad), you are killing an absolutely insanely ridiculous amount of people. Nathan Drake kills more humans in a single game than the Aliens, Predators, Terminators and Rambo have in every movie they have combined. Even if it's a game it's getting harder to overlook it.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:01
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Sakurazuka posted:Metal Gear Rising pretty much did this and still managed to be awesome. To be fair, Raiden acknowledges the complicated nature of what he's doing, he's just so hosed up he doesn't care, so keeps going to try prevent other people from turning out like him.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:16
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ImpAtom posted:The problem, I think, is that the enemies going from 8-bit space invaders to defined humans who have personalities and dialogue and such has really driven home that (even if those people are bad), you are killing an absolutely insanely ridiculous amount of people. Nathan Drake kills more humans in a single game than the Aliens, Predators, Terminators and Rambo have in every movie they have combined. Even if it's a game it's getting harder to overlook it. I also think its amplified because these are everyday yokels like you and me and really people with formal training at this stuff.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:51
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ImpAtom posted:Even if it's a game it's getting harder to overlook it. For who? You? I think anyone past the age of 5 that doesn't suffer from schizophrenia doesn't find it very hard to overlook pushing buttons and staring at a screen doesn't alter anything real.
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Mar 14, 2013 17:13
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"Oh! A bunch of guys are shooting at me from a building on top of the falls! I guess I'll just attach a rope to the building and TEAR IT DOWN WITH MY BARE HANDS!" "A locked door? Just attach a rope and pull it off its hinges!" Lara is a god-drat superhuman and it's awesome.
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Mar 14, 2013 17:14
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Ariza posted:For who? You? I think anyone past the age of 5 that doesn't suffer from schizophrenia doesn't find it very hard to overlook pushing buttons and staring at a screen doesn't alter anything real. It can influence a person but so will most things. It is annoying hearing the complaints though. Why should games adhere to any realistic standards, or even movie standards? Games are games and need to focus on fun and excitement not oh hey this is a realistic human like me so they should go through thoroughly depicted mental transformations blahhh. Go read some great literature and watch one of the hundreds of amazing films dealing with people surviving through impossible circumstances. I'm not saying film can't be fun and games can't be serious and deep but I think both fields could learn a lot from the past and what they're building upon. I can't believe I'm posting about this again.
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Mar 14, 2013 17:20
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Renoistic posted:"Oh! A bunch of guys are shooting at me from a building on top of the falls! I guess I'll just attach a rope to the building and TEAR IT DOWN WITH MY BARE HANDS!" "A locked door? Just attach a rope and pull it off its hinges!" Yeah I thought I was going to get a machete or something to cut through those and clear the thorny brush out to access new areas, didn't expect the thief rope arrow. The shotgun being the key to the wooden barriers wasn't what I was expecting either.
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Mar 14, 2013 17:23
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Ariza posted:For who? You? I think anyone past the age of 5 that doesn't suffer from schizophrenia doesn't find it very hard to overlook pushing buttons and staring at a screen doesn't alter anything real. Nobody thinks it does? I'm not exactly clear what point you're trying to make here. Do you think people are upset because they literally think video games are going to make people start shooting or something? "It's harder to overlook it" comes from the fact that games are trying to set a specific tone and atmosphere which can often by directly at odds with what the gameplay is presenting, not that it has a real world impact. Buying Drake as a wisecracking "everyman" nice guy is a lot harder when he's brutally snapping the necks of a pair of guys who were chatting about their favorite TV show followed by singlehandedly gunning down the population of a small country. Kilometers Davis posted:It can influence a person but so will most things. It is annoying hearing the complaints though. Why should games adhere to any realistic standards, or even movie standards? Games are games and need to focus on fun and excitement not oh hey this is a realistic human like me so they should go through thoroughly depicted mental transformations blahhh. Go read some great literature and watch one of the hundreds of amazing films dealing with people surviving through impossible circumstances. I'm not saying film can't be fun and games can't be serious and deep but I think both fields could learn a lot from the past and what they're building upon. I can't believe I'm posting about this again. Because games are trying to do those kinds of stories? I mean they include lengthy cutscenes, often unskippable, and in-game dialogue and all these sorts of things. If games try to do that then they're going to get judged on that. Nobody complaints about Saint's Row because Saint's Row isn't trying to present its protagonists as anything but insane sociopaths. The only time people complain there is when they're not fun insane sociopaths. Tomb Raider goes out of its way to present its villains as pure evil and its protagonist as a well-trained and incredibly resourceful individual who almost always takes morally justifiable actions.. It just also has 2 hours early on when she does things like vomit after killing someone and other such things which highlight a pretty different tone from the rest of the game. It's a case where this gets brought up because the developers included scenes like that. If they hadn't it'd probably be a different conversation. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 14, 2013 17:25
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Yeah, it's pretty obvious they shifted gears during development. But I think you'd still have the issue of "holy poo poo, she's killing a small army worth of dudes" weirdness even without the first hour. It's the reality of making this kind of action game and I don't think game writing is mature enough to deal with it well. Not to mention that this is the biggest death cult composed of shipwrecked crazy people ever. They must get multiple wrecks a week. No you don't lose upgrades, it even tells you so. VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV Spite fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 14, 2013 18:14
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Individual weapon upgrades carry over to the new modified version of the weapon right? Am I wasting salvage by upgrading these first tier weapons?
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Mar 14, 2013 18:16
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loudog999 posted:And the swan dive. There are so many places around the island I would love to watch Lara swan dive to her death from. That never got old Can you swan dive in the trilogy set? Because its really killing me not knowing.
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Mar 14, 2013 19:33
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blackguy32 posted:I also think its amplified because these are everyday yokels like you and me and really people with formal training at this stuff. Even for people specially trained to parkour through ice caves in the Himalayas in a fur lined blazer and jeans for two hours straight or to fall flat on their face like 10 times from an impressive height and walk away with only a slight stomach ache though, the amount of killing can seem pretty excessive. The campaigns for stuff like Call of Duty or say Battlefield are already incredibly short. Is this the answer? Just not have as much action? I feel like Uncharted and even this new Tomb Raider, despite the Commando-caliber body count, are sort of going in the right direction with the large amount of unique animations and such. Is there a game out there where the enemies have regenerating health on par with the player? For something like say Uncharted 2 or this game, imagine if there were maybe thirty people total that were after you but it was very difficult to actually permanently kill them. Each enemy in that game is named in the multiplayer selection, having a finite group of bad guys that are all actually unique from each other would be pretty cool. Also it's not like this approach would feel more repetitive than fighting a thousand generic dudes and the one big guy at the end of each encounter like how most games do it. It would even give the developers more dramatic Hollywood moments to put in the game as each hardened mercenary is defeated for good. Uncharted 2 (I keep mentioning this as the baseline because I feel like it really started this tone/gameplay imbalance discussion, moreso than GTA4), is on the right track because of all the unique melee animations and takedowns, I feel like that's the direction things should be going in. Having less enemies overall but having each encounter be unique. I'm actually surprised it hasn't gone this way to begin with given how much the big budget games try to imitate the setpieces of Hollywood action movies. This approach would actually be amazing for a Tomb Raider game honestly. The semi-open approach they've taken for this one would complement it very well, hang out in an area too long and oh no ____ is on to you, maybe you can defeat him/her right there or you're not strong enough and have to move on, whatever, I just feel like there's lots of ways to have violent killing in games without it having to require you shooting ten billion guys from behind cover. Something that plays more like First Blood or the revenge scene in Rambo II rather than how every game is basically Rambo III. Shenmue II was cool with this. Each of the fights felt unique because the AI for every fightable character was taken straight from a different character from Virtua Fighter 2 and/or 3. It wasn't super hard, but it still feels fun despite the lack of killing thousands of people because you're constantly switching out your moves and figuring out what works and what doesn't on each enemy.
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Mar 14, 2013 19:34
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Daimo posted:Can you swan dive in the trilogy set? Because its really killing me not knowing. Yes, yes you can. Pretty sure one game has a trophy for swan diving a certain height to your death.
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Mar 14, 2013 19:36
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Finished the game earlier this week and absolutely loved it. Was never a big fan of the previous Tomb Raiders, but I do remember enjoying Legend quite a bit, but never finishing Underworld. The exploration and traversal around the environment were really well done. The combat was surprisingly fun and the enemy dialog made you feel like a badass as you take them down one by one. And like everyone else said in the thread, here's hoping we'll see some additional Tomb DLC. One thing that I'm a bit confused about. Did Lara kill the queen using a torch? That's all it took to kill her? Or was it the fire that killed her? I skipped out on a few of the journals so maybe there's something I missed out on. I thought that she was going to use that broken blade she got off that General that commited seppuku. And I initially thought that was a Climbing Axe upgrade of some sort because she mentioned it was still sharp and held onto it.  aw yiss posted:Individual weapon upgrades carry over to the new modified version of the weapon right? Am I wasting salvage by upgrading these first tier weapons? Yep!
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Mar 14, 2013 19:45
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Are all of the tombs in this game as small as the two I've completed so far? They each consisted of a single puzzle that wouldn't have been out of place as a beginner level in The Incredible Machine, and...that was it. A little underwhelming, though the locations were atmospheric enough at least. Pretty happy with the game otherwise so far. Still no crashes or anything some five hours in despite being part of the high-risk group that is GeForce 6xx users, apparently; the worst I've seen were minor graphical glitches like flickering foliage or some objects in the environment/Lara's hair temporarily disappearing. It's so nice to be surprised by how well a game works nowadays.
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Mar 14, 2013 19:59
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MMAgCh posted:Are all of the tombs in this game as small as the two I've completed so far? They each consisted of a single puzzle that wouldn't have been out of place as a beginner level in The Incredible Machine, and...that was it. A little underwhelming, though the locations were atmospheric enough at least. Yes, that is all the tombs in the game.
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Mar 14, 2013 20:00
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Wazzit posted:One thing that I'm a bit confused about. Did Lara kill the queen using a torch? That's all it took to kill her? Or was it the fire that killed her? I skipped out on a few of the journals so maybe there's something I missed out on. I thought that she was going to use that broken blade she got off that General that commited seppuku. And I initially thought that was a Climbing Axe upgrade of some sort because she mentioned it was still sharp and held onto it.
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Mar 14, 2013 20:15
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What's this about there originally being actual monsters in the game? There's supposedly concept art of it but I can't find anything about it.
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Mar 14, 2013 20:16
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RatHat posted:What's this about there originally being actual monsters in the game? There's supposedly concept art of it but I can't find anything about it. Go back a few pages. Edit: nevermind, memory was screwed. First hit on google: http://www.uproxx.com/gammasquad/2011/01/the-tomb-raider-reboot-is-more-realistic-with-japanese-monsters/ ZeeBoi fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 14, 2013 20:19
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Reveilled posted:Wait, so if you had all the upgrades by the time you got to the beach, what happened when Jonah gives you the upgraded bow on the beach? Did you just get the exact same one as the one you had? That compound bow that Jonah gives you isn't the highest level bow. There's one more level after it; the competition bow. I got all the upgrade parts at the beach to upgrade it literally right after that cutscene. teagone fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Mar 14, 2013 |
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Mar 14, 2013 20:24
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Honest Thief posted:To me its the gravitas of each encounter seems to have, at least I'm getting the sense that meeting an enemy is always close to a "aw gently caress, I only got one bullet" sort of moment. If it's just Uncharted all over again, then lol I thought I Am Alive did a really good job of making every encounter feel dangerous in the way that you've described. This new Tomb Raider just feels like another Third Person Shooter when enemies show up.
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Mar 14, 2013 20:36
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RatHat posted:What's this about there originally being actual monsters in the game? There's supposedly concept art of it but I can't find anything about it. What, you don't consider the Oni monsters? Immortal/zombie warriors are squarely within that category, in my opinion.
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Mar 14, 2013 21:19
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Seedge posted:I'm still puzzled by the reviews to this game treating it as a GOTY contender. I absolutely is for me. The characterization and story alone makes it far more interesting than Uncharted, and the early QTE-excesses aside the gameplay is really working for me. Sure, it could be even better, if they made it less "gamey" (for the lack of a better word) and with a bit less hand-holding, but for me at least it is up there with the best games of the last few years. Bioshock Infinite will have to loving deliver big to top Tomb Raider for me.
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Mar 14, 2013 21:59
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teagone posted:That compound bow that Jonah gives you isn't the highest level bow. There's one more level after it; the competition bow. I got all the upgrade parts at the beach to upgrade it literally right after that cutscene. Right, but what I'm meaning is, if you had all the weapons fully upgraded by the time you got to the beach, does Jonah give you the compound bow even though you have the competition bow already? I assumed as I played through the game and got stuck for a very, very long time at 2/3 bow parts with the composite bow that the game was witholding the last part from me because I was going to get a storyline upgrade, which I did, and then found the final part to upgrade the compound bow to the competition bow within about 20 minutes. So that all seemed to match up logically and I assumed that the upgrade parts were semi-random in that you can find them as you play but you can't find the last piece for some weapons until you get the storyline upgrade. But what you said made it sound like you already had the competition bow by the time you got to the beach. If so are you given a downgrade in the cutscene, even if you don't use it?
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Mar 14, 2013 22:20
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(Ending spoilers)Uh, if Mathias knew that Himiko's soul being trapped in a corpse was causing the storms, why didn't he just destroy the corpse like Lara did?
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Mar 14, 2013 22:35
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