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RatHat posted:(Ending spoilers)Uh, if Mathias knew that Himiko's soul being trapped in a corpse was causing the storms, why didn't he just destroy the corpse like Lara did? Because The Oni were tearing the poo poo out of anyone who went anywhere near the temple, let alone Himiko. I figure once he had Sam inside they gave leniency on the attacks because well drat just maybe he's right. They weren't exactly going all out on stopping it, after all.
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Mar 14, 2013 22:38
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Because he thinks the only way to solve the problem is to appease Himiko.
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Mar 14, 2013 22:39
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Yeah, but once he's up there he still tries to revive Himiko instead of just destroying the body. And I think his hundreds of soldiers with guns would probably be more than a match for a bunch of samurai shooting arrows.
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Mar 14, 2013 22:40
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You're mistaken on one point. It never really occurs to Matt to destroy Himiko's last body to disperse her spirit, none of his documents bring it up. The only thing that gives Lara the idea is the line she finds in the samurai general's suicide note about how Himiko's soul is trapped in a decaying body, something that I don't think Matt ever found. So, from Matt's point of view, Lara is screwing up his one chance off the island: appeasing Himiko.
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Mar 14, 2013 22:54
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Reveilled posted:Right, but what I'm meaning is, if you had all the weapons fully upgraded by the time you got to the beach, does Jonah give you the compound bow even though you have the competition bow already? I assumed as I played through the game and got stuck for a very, very long time at 2/3 bow parts with the composite bow that the game was witholding the last part from me because I was going to get a storyline upgrade, which I did, and then found the final part to upgrade the compound bow to the competition bow within about 20 minutes. So that all seemed to match up logically and I assumed that the upgrade parts were semi-random in that you can find them as you play but you can't find the last piece for some weapons until you get the storyline upgrade. But what you said made it sound like you already had the competition bow by the time you got to the beach. If so are you given a downgrade in the cutscene, even if you don't use it? Oh, no. Think you misunderstood me then. I didn't have all the final level weapons the moment I arrived at shipwreck beach; I was pointing that at once I reached that part of the game, exploring and what not, progressing the story, etc., etc., is when I had reached all max level weapons. Guess I could have worded that better. As for what you're asking, I have no idea. The same question could be asked if you had already upgraded the handgun after getting Roth's.
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Mar 14, 2013 22:55
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teagone posted:Oh, no. Think you misunderstood me then. I didn't have all the final level weapons the moment I arrived at shipwreck beach; I was pointing that at once I reached that part of the game, exploring and what not, progressing the story, etc., etc., is when I had reached all max level weapons. Guess I could have worded that better. As for what you're asking, I have no idea. The same question could be asked if you had already upgraded the handgun after getting Roth's. I'm thinking that no matter how hard you search, the game straight up won't let you get enough parts to upgrade the pistol and the bow a second time until you get the storyline upgrade, after which it will let you find the last part you need to finish the weapon off and fully upgrade it.
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Mar 14, 2013 23:16
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Speedball posted:You're mistaken on one point. It never really occurs to Matt to destroy Himiko's last body to disperse her spirit, none of his documents bring it up. The only thing that gives Lara the idea is the line she finds in the samurai general's suicide note about how Himiko's soul is trapped in a decaying body, something that I don't think Matt ever found. So, from Matt's point of view, Lara is screwing up his one chance off the island: appeasing Himiko. He also thinks He'll be the general/second in command/whatever of whatever new world order Himiko creates. This is also what he's promising to his followers.
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Mar 15, 2013 00:05
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I do not loving get this button mashing bullshit. I get the pack, head out of the cave and get jumped by a wolf. Says mash L/R, I do. Says press F, I do. I die. I try mashing F. I die. I try pressing nothing. I die slightly faster. Why not just let me shoot the loving thing? I'm literally stuck.
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Mar 15, 2013 02:39
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Duck and burger posted:I do not loving get this button mashing bullshit. I get the pack, head out of the cave and get jumped by a wolf. Says mash L/R, I do. Says press F, I do. I die. I try mashing F. I die. I try pressing nothing. I die slightly faster. Why not just let me shoot the loving thing? I'm literally stuck. Make sure you aren't pressing it until the color enters the big ring. You can press things too quickly, which I didn't realize until halfway through the game. That sequence is also a bitch if you're running with TressFX on since the slowdown in fps sometimes causes it not to register your button presses.
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Mar 15, 2013 02:48
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Axel Serenity posted:Make sure you aren't pressing it until the color enters the big ring. You can press things too quickly, which I didn't realize until halfway through the game. That sequence is also a bitch if you're running with TressFX on since the slowdown in fps sometimes causes it not to register your button presses. There it goes. Thanks. Seems kind of contrived...
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Mar 15, 2013 02:52
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Duck and burger posted:There it goes. Thanks. Seems kind of contrived... Thankfully the QTE bullshit seems to tone down a lot after that portion of the game. There's still a bit of it, but it's not quite as dumb or plentiful.
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Mar 15, 2013 03:04
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If they make another one of these they NEED to allow for some stealth now and then. There's part while making you're way to the radio tower where two guys are talking about getting some supplies out of the building, then they decide to leave. They walk out and then you kill them. While they're talking, though, you can go across the hallway (they're at the far end) and go across into another room where there's some hidden stuff. I tested this out by reloading a couple of times and, if you hide in that room, the enemies walk into that room instead of leaving so that you have to kill them anyway. Granted they are standing around a red barrel the game wants you to shoot instead so I guess there's that option. Barf. Also LOL because there's a collectable you can ONLY get with fire that gets covered in flame if you blow that barrel up, but that's not the right kind of fire for this piece of paper I guess? I still like the game a lot but there are several little moments like that that frustrate.
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Mar 15, 2013 03:10
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Duck and burger posted:I do not loving get this button mashing bullshit. I get the pack, head out of the cave and get jumped by a wolf. Says mash L/R, I do. Says press F, I do. I die. I try mashing F. I die. I try pressing nothing. I die slightly faster. Why not just let me shoot the loving thing? I'm literally stuck. I loving hate QTEs that are either "do it perfectly or die". These are glorified cutscenes, only a lot more annoying, because I can't concentrate on watching cutscene and have to do them several times, because I suck at QTEs. That's simply not immersive gameplay, it's just annyoing. If there are QTEs they should act as a bonus giver, or a shortcut, but not as something that's "do or die". Luckily this poo poo nearly completely stops after the first hour or so, with only a few sequences where you have to press 1-2 buttons (like sliding over edges and pressing the button to grab the ledge with your second hand).
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Mar 15, 2013 07:16
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Just wrapped up the game and I thought it was pretty drat good. I wonder if they will bring up the Trinity thing in the next one.
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Mar 15, 2013 07:38
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These were by far the easiest QTEs I've ever encountered in a game, period. I don't think I died to a single one. But then again, I was using a 360 controller and it sounds like a lot of the frustrated people in this thread were using mouse and keyboard.
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Mar 15, 2013 07:55
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DrNutt posted:These were by far the easiest QTEs I've ever encountered in a game, period. I don't think I died to a single one. But then again, I was using a 360 controller and it sounds like a lot of the frustrated people in this thread were using mouse and keyboard. The QTE explanation in combat also leaves a bit to be desired. I don't think it dawned on me until the very end of the game, that there was a difference between just hitting Y when it was somewhere inside the ring (leading to a stumble in the enemy), and pressing it exactly at some point (which I think was at the outer ring), which led to a finisher. vvv my hand, even. cheers 
GhostBoy fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 08:52
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GhostBoy posted:but the other one made me take him hand off the buttons But you had Jah with you.
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Mar 15, 2013 08:55
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DrNutt posted:These were by far the easiest QTEs I've ever encountered in a game, period. I don't think I died to a single one. But then again, I was using a 360 controller and it sounds like a lot of the frustrated people in this thread were using mouse and keyboard. I'll admit, these were some easy-rear end QTE's, but I still feel they break the flow of certain cut-scenes. I don't mind most of them, honestly, but sometimes a prompt on the screen feels like it distracts me from what I am watching or doing in-game. It kinda comes back to how the intro stage in Mega Man X was so brilliant. It didn't have a QTE for getting out of the ditch or prompt you with a pop-up telling you how charge up your buster. (which is something that Metroid: Other M did, Jesus Christ) I get that they sometimes need to give the player the feeling that they are still interacting with the game, but sometimes modesty is the better part of gameplay. At least the previous Tomb Raiders used QTE's sparingly, even if they were still jarring.
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Mar 15, 2013 09:02
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The problem with QTEs is that when you use a controller there is a colored button clearly shown in the middle of the circle but when you use m+k the button description shows somewhere on the screen or doesn't show at all. I have no idea why there's such difference. At first I was using m+k and I would die every single time from the wolf attack QTE because I just didn't know what the hell to press. Then I encountered some strange glitches and switched to a gamepad. BAM every QTE became easy because it's clearly indicated what to press. Frankly it's a bit ridiculous.
Palpek fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 09:04
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Even more ridiculous is that both keys are tied to "E" and "F", so even if they showed the actual buttons, at a quick glance, you could still mess it up in the haste of things.
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Mar 15, 2013 09:29
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Spite posted:It's partially a result of games trying to be more movie like and trying to have actual characters. Indiana Jones only kills like 10 people right? Drake kills like 500. If Lara only had to kill like a dozen people it we probably wouldn't have this discussion as much. But there's still the issue of the heroic likable character killing so many enemies. It cheapens the entire thing because everything becomes disposable. (though Indy's nazi enemies are the epitome of cannon fodder to be fair) ...and herein lies the problem. Why is Lara Croft held to a higher standard than any other protagonist in her genre? Because she's female. Look. The Solarii are complicit in mass murder, especially of women. Some of them may be humanized to some small extent, but you don't get to complain when the people you're trying to hunt down and murder/brainwash into joining your murdercult/sacrifice to an insane lich queen because they have the right set of genitals kill the hell out of you first. Just because a game says "He had a family!" or waggles its finger at you and tells you you're a bad bad person for using its combat mechanics does not make it a better game. Absolute pacifism isn't terribly morally defensible either - and I'm speaking as someone who likes sparing enemy dudes when the option presents itself and when I'm led to believe they deserve it. For me, this game has had a very natural sort of progression - at first I tried to avoid fights, but as the depravity of the Solarii made itself more and more clear, I found myself killing without anywhere near so much hesitation. That's an evolution mirrored by the main character's attitudes. Would it perhaps have been a better choice to focus more on surviving crazy conditions with MGS-style scavenging and hunting to keep yourself fed, clothed, and sheltered? Sure. Would it have been a harder plot to tell? Maybe - it would have perhaps disrupted or changed the pacing. Would it have been better to cut down on the number of enemies but make them more resilient and varied? Sure! And yes, the sheer scale of this crazy murdercult is pretty big; there must be a thousand plus of the bastards, to say nothing of the corpses lying all over the place, but presumably there are generations of shipwreck survivors here. It's a contrivance, absolutely, much as Nathan Drake's enormous bodycount. But I'm willing to meet the game on those terms - suspension of disbelief and all that. Most of Drake's enemies are also, guess what, trying to murder him and/or other people, anyways, so I'm not precisely sure where this "Nathan Drake is a sociopathic monster" meme gets any traction just because he quips like John McClane (who also taunted and quipped at his foes to a borderline psychotic extent). But it makes even less sense for Lara. Jetrauben fucked around with this message at 10:00 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 09:52
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Jetrauben posted:...and herein lies the problem. Why is Lara Croft held to a higher standard than any other protagonist in her genre? Because she's female. What? I've seen this discussion ad nauseam for a lot of titles with male protagonists too.
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Mar 15, 2013 10:00
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Anyway yesterday I finished the game. GOTY for me, I had tons of fun, I didn't mind the QTEs as soon as I started using a controller. The last glitch the game had in store for me was that after I 100%ed each skill tree the XP bar kept rising and shortly before finishing the game I levelled up and received another skill point with nothing to spend it on. On the other hand I didn't find enough salvage to unlock 2 last shotgun upgrades and I didn't feel like grinding another 1000 points to do that. It seems like when I came back to earlier locations before finishing the game - they were empty so I could just focus on collecting. However when I came back to them after finishing the game - they had enemies again additionally with new conversations. I think this is a nice touch because you can just go wild with your full arsenal while hearing some fresh content. It's like a little new game+. I collected all GPS markers, documents, relics, maps and completed a couple of the custom collectible challenges but I didn't really want to go back and 100% those too. I was surprised to see that I only unlocked like 60% of acheivements but skimming through them I saw that the rest are mostly multiplayer and I haven't managed to even join a single game despite trying a couple of times. Maybe it's a regional thing. I really enjoyed this game and can't wait for the sequel. Palpek fucked around with this message at 10:16 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 10:13
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Does anyone else keep wanting to scream "Use a gun you idiot!" during cutscenes? NewLara seriously needs to get over her bow obsession.
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Mar 15, 2013 10:21
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Palpek posted:The problem with QTEs is that when you use a controller there is a colored button clearly shown in the middle of the circle but when you use m+k the button description shows somewhere on the screen or doesn't show at all. I have no idea why there's such difference. At first I was using m+k and I would die every single time from the wolf attack QTE because I just didn't know what the hell to press. Then I encountered some strange glitches and switched to a gamepad. BAM every QTE became easy because it's clearly indicated what to press. Frankly it's a bit ridiculous. Yeah, I used a controller the whole game and I felt the QTEs were fine. In fact, I thought they were better designed than most games that have them these days.
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Mar 15, 2013 10:29
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The Lone Badger posted:Does anyone else keep wanting to scream "Use a gun you idiot!" during cutscenes? NewLara seriously needs to get over her bow obsession.
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Mar 15, 2013 10:39
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notZaar posted:Maybe when they planned those it was going to be a bow only game? The combat certainly has a different flavor to it if you never use the other guns. It would fit in with the feeling we've had that the amount of enemies were ramped up for fun factor.
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Mar 15, 2013 10:46
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The Lone Badger posted:Does anyone else keep wanting to scream "Use a gun you idiot!" during cutscenes? NewLara seriously needs to get over her bow obsession.
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Mar 15, 2013 10:55
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The Lone Badger posted:Does anyone else keep wanting to scream "Use a gun you idiot!" during cutscenes? NewLara seriously needs to get over her bow obsession. Frequently, she's in a situation where a silent shot would be more useful - at least so far. Honestly, I rather like the bow.
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Mar 15, 2013 10:56
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I must say I loving loved the iconic use of double pistols at the very end of the game. Such a cool reference and used in the perfect moment.
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Mar 15, 2013 11:04
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GhostBoy posted:Not really. They establish when you get the bow, that Roth has trained Lara in archery, and we are led to believe she was rather skilled with it. Out of necessity she picks up some firearms along the way, but it never seemed odd to me that she would fall back on the weapon she was most comfortable with. Especially when you consider that often when she has the bow out in cutscenes, she is looking at a hostage situation at point-blank range: in that case precision is key and it is close to impossible to dodge an arrow at that range anyway. The situations I'm thinking of are * When Grim breaks free of his captors. If she'd used a gun she'd have been able to fire quicker (no need to nock-and-draw) and possibly save Grim * When she shoots the guy about to torch Sam. The subsequent Solarii charge would have been much less enthusiastic if she'd been holding an assault rifle * When she meets Sam again. With a gun she could have shot Mathias and the guard, instead of waiting for Mathias to leave so she could use her bow * When she's on top of the mountain. It's blowing a gale, arrows will be useless Off the top of my head
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Mar 15, 2013 11:18
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I just wish the bow was a little more powerful. Certain sequences near the end of the game are nearly impossible without breaking out at least the shotgun for close-range shenanigans. But, that's a pretty minimal complaint, especially considering that sometimes those other weapons led to amazing moments. "Oh poo poo, she's got a grenade launcher!" "That's right, you bastards! I'm coming for you all!" Having just finished with full completion, I can't wait for a sequel and/or movie. What a ride. Outside of the filler sounds, Camilla Luddington did a great job of making Lara sound like an inexperienced 21-year-old instead of trying to sultry her up or anything. The side characters were pretty fleshed out considering how little screen-time they get by comparison, and there were some genuinely emotional moments throughout the game. Alex nooo  . If this is basically a springboard to a new take on the franchise, the series is in really, really good hands for the future.
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Mar 15, 2013 11:18
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Here's another vote from me for MORE TOMBS dlc. They're maybe the best part of the game - they all seem to look cool (especially the Hall Of Ascension) and I wish the game had more off-the-beaten-path substance to it. There's plenty of collectables but few of them have the same puzzles attached. Also - seeing the 'Tomb Raided!' sign pop-up after doing the first one was a great feeling. To me it felt like exactly the right amount of tongue in cheek, like Indiana Jones and the Temple Of Doom, when he tries to shoot the fancypants sword guy (ala Raiders Of The Lost Ark) and his gun jams. Just good adventurey times!
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Mar 15, 2013 12:56
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Jetrauben posted:Would it perhaps have been a better choice to focus more on surviving crazy conditions with MGS-style scavenging and hunting to keep yourself fed, clothed, and sheltered? Sure. Would it have been a harder plot to tell? Maybe - it would have perhaps disrupted or changed the pacing. Would it have been better to cut down on the number of enemies but make them more resilient and varied? Sure! And yes, the sheer scale of this crazy murdercult is pretty big; there must be a thousand plus of the bastards, to say nothing of the corpses lying all over the place, but presumably there are generations of shipwreck survivors here. Mathias crashes in the mid 80's, I think. We don't know how long he's there before starting his recruitment. So it's not really that long, considering the cult is like 1000 people like you mention. The observation about Drake isn't that he makes John McClane quips. It's that he kills 700 people while doing it. Die Hard only has like a couple dozen bad guys. Drake kills that many in each encounter; it's the sheer volume of enemies in the game that makes it weird.
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Mar 15, 2013 13:30
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This game is great. I hope there will be more of it. It'll take me some time to go through it because I get to play 5 hours every weekend at a friend's place, but that's better than nothing. Bought it because of it.
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Mar 15, 2013 13:56
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Spite posted:The observation about Drake isn't that he makes John McClane quips. It's that he kills 700 people while doing it. Die Hard only has like a couple dozen bad guys. Drake kills that many in each encounter; it's the sheer volume of enemies in the game that makes it weird.
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Mar 15, 2013 14:11
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Axel Serenity posted:Having just finished with full completion, I can't wait for a sequel and/or movie. What a ride. Outside of the filler sounds, Camilla Luddington did a great job of making Lara sound like an inexperienced 21-year-old instead of trying to sultry her up or anything. As far as I'm considered, Camilla Luddington can play Lara in the movie reboot and I would not mind it one bit. She looks the part.
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Mar 15, 2013 14:24
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Palpek posted:Comparing movies to games this way never works. First thing is the lenght of a typical movie being 2 hours vs a dozen+ for games and the second is the audience being observers in movies vs being participants in games. There needs to be stuff that you do in an action game or you will drown in cutscenes/dialogues. The kill count in action games will always rise ridiculously and if we only received games that had stories fitting this fact we would be playing Duke Nukem sequels exclusively. I agree, a lot of games are becoming overly long and forced to add a ton of unnecessary padding. The other problem is that in games, the majority of your interaction with the game world is through a gun and a reticle. There are a billion different ways we could be handling action scenarios in games, but we're just repeating the same old "cover shooter/run really fast" segments over and over again. The only two things you do in most AAA games are basically running through setpieces and shooting gallery segments.
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Mar 15, 2013 14:26
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alf_pogs posted:Here's another vote from me for MORE TOMBS dlc. They're maybe the best part of the game - they all seem to look cool (especially the Hall Of Ascension) and I wish the game had more off-the-beaten-path substance to it. There's plenty of collectables but few of them have the same puzzles attached. The thing that really bugged me about the tombs was that they were short Portal like puzzles. I wish they were a little more involved and complex.
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Mar 15, 2013 16:24
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Crappy Jack posted:I agree, a lot of games are becoming overly long and forced to add a ton of unnecessary padding. The other problem is that in games, the majority of your interaction with the game world is through a gun and a reticle. There are a billion different ways we could be handling action scenarios in games, but we're just repeating the same old "cover shooter/run really fast" segments over and over again. The only two things you do in most AAA games are basically running through setpieces and shooting gallery segments. It's more that there's no variation. I'm fine with a 10 hour game, but the Uncharted and Tomb Raider, etc, mold is very repetitive. I actually think a bigger emphasis on puzzle solving would break it up since. Or if they designed the enemy encounters as more puzzles than just run and gunning. But each fight blends into the other in these games and it gets boring by the end. I also think too many games think they are movies. While it's cool to play through an indiana jones movie, games aren't movies. And when you try to make them movies you have this problem people have brought up where your hero in a movie would fight 20 enemies, your hero in the game fights 700. There needs to be an adaptation here.
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Mar 15, 2013 16:44
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