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Modus Operandi posted:If you're a true pessimist then it's a pretty logical investment. China's bubble is more similar to the UAE's and a lot of people saw that one coming too. The first thing that started to free fall after the crash were all the rich gulf arab construction firm/real estate stocks. There is an issuing of timing, you don't necessarily know when it will fall apart. Also, state responses can be fairly difficult to predict. On one hand you have growing ghost cities, on the other hand you an a authoritarian government desperate to keep the charade going.
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Mar 16, 2013 18:54
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Modus Operandi posted:If some of you guys are so confident on an impending housing apocalypse in China why not invest your money into some short index linked to China's construction/real estate market? You could get theoretically get rich overnight if it does crash sort of like that guy who bet on subprime happening and became a billionaire. Haha yes, I'll just invest all this money I made from my lucrative job offers since my graduation in 2009.  In all seriousness, seeing a market movement coming sometime in the future is different from being in a position to exploit it. "That guy" probably had more than a couple thousand dollars lying around in order to make those investments which puts him above 50% of people in the U.S. and 90% of people around the world. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Mar 16, 2013 |
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Mar 16, 2013 19:00
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Whoops. Actually, on point, was there any particular speech Xi made when he was formally installed this week? Or was all the symbolic stuff done at the Party Congress?
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Mar 16, 2013 19:20
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Wall Street Journal has a nifty infographic showing how overpriced Hong Kong is: Sorry Hong Kong, you're pretty great but nowhere near NYC yet double the price... not that I would want mainland Chinese speculatin' on NYC either. Also, Sydney is a fine dining desert. First world problems.
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Mar 17, 2013 02:30
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There is plenty of fine dining in Sydney, it's just that Michelin hasn't gotten around to doing a guide for them yet. Also a lot of the Michelin starred places in HK are not traditional fine dining restaurants.
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Mar 17, 2013 03:53
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drat $10 for a gallon of milk is rough, is that representative of food prices as a whole?
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Mar 17, 2013 04:06
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Ardennes posted:drat $10 for a gallon of milk is rough, is that representative of food prices as a whole? Not really. Remember that the Chinese rarely drink milk. The more commonly consumed stuff are more affordable. http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=United+Kingdom&country2=Hong+Kong&city1=London&city2=Hong+Kong
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Mar 17, 2013 04:25
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Fangz posted:Not really. Remember that the Chinese rarely drink milk. The more commonly consumed stuff are more affordable. Well, that, and like no one buys milk a gallon at a time we get it in those fun little bags that are like 1 cup each, or in the 1L things. If you're just getting plain pure milk that's a decent brand, you're looking at somewhere around 30 RMB a gallon which is $4.83. If you go with smaller brands (which I honestly wouldn't) you can score a gallon's worth of milk for about $3. I take numbeo with a grain of loving salt for anywhere not english-speaking because the contributors to it tend to have no idea what they're doing, and those that do are overwhelmed by the "data" from idiots, like the ones who seem to think that milk in Shanghai costs $2.40 a liter. Or that a dozen eggs costs $3.22, when I just got back from the market with 1 dozen jumbo-sized eggs (jumbo is 850g per dozen) which cost a whopping $1.10. Prices are horribly off for just about everything else as well, which tells you it's idiot expats putting in the data rather than anyone who actually lives here.
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Mar 17, 2013 05:37
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Yeah I just saw it said a 1 bedroom apartment in Shenzhen is 5500 rmb per month or so. The only people paying that much don't care about rent because their company is just paying it.
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Mar 17, 2013 05:51
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I never noticed milk cost that much here because yeah, they don't sell it in gallons. I always buy by the quart. I also don't drink that much milk. But yeah, it's all related to the property oligarchy. Property prices drive up the cost of everything. It's awful.
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Mar 17, 2013 07:15
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drat cheap eggs, they're about $5 plus a bit for a dozen here.
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Mar 17, 2013 07:22
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Baronjutter posted:drat cheap eggs, they're about $5 plus a bit for a dozen here. Guessing the $5 is for free range though? Battery farm eggs are like a third of the price of free range.
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Mar 17, 2013 07:26
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Free range? You think just because a chicken gets to roam around I'm going eat that poison!? Free range, organic, veggie fed with proper chicken coop fung shui thank you very much. Speaking of which, has the whole !!!ORANGIC!!! craze hit china at all? Is it something the wealthy do?
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Mar 17, 2013 07:30
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Bloodnose posted:I never noticed milk cost that much here because yeah, they don't sell it in gallons. I always buy by the quart. I also don't drink that much milk. If it's UHT, I just buy it by the case like normal people do. Even then, milk is basically just for coffee anyways. I get 3 cappuccinos out of a bag of milk. So it's like 80ml of steamed and frothed milk with a splash of pure vanilla extract for a nice double-basket's worth of espresso with a 18~20g dose. And then gently caress sugar, use fresh honey. Perfect cup of very strong (and heavenly) espresso-based coffee (with tons more *real* crema and better taste than you'll ever see at a cafe) runs like 4 kuai. Baronjutter posted:Free range? You think just because a chicken gets to roam around I'm going eat that poison!? Free range, organic, veggie fed with proper chicken coop fung shui thank you very much. Yea, it's hit to some degree, but it's mostly just bullshit. Eggs, there seems to be some hilarious craze for getting free-range organic whatever and paying double the price for them. Then when you whip out the facts and show that there's no nutritional benefit whatsoever people either realize they've been being stupid, or they get hyper-defensive about it. Oh, they taste so much better! I can tell the difference! I have a neighbor who couldn't shut up about them that I invited over, cooked a few dishes for a taste test. 1 pair of dishes that were unlabeled. 1 pair of dishes that were labeled opposite. Unlabeled result was a toss-up, thought they tasted about the same, suggested that I was just using normal eggs and trying to trick them. Labeled dishes, oh, the one marked as free-range/organic/whatever was sooo much better, see I told you so! And then revealed they were an idiot. Once you are willing to pay more for nothing, it's really common for that silly brain to try and justify it. The neighbor buys normal eggs now. Wash your veggies, wash your non-peeling fruits, get your meat from the halal butchers and you'll be fine. The "organic" push is mainly coming from sellers and farmers because it means more profit for the same exact thing. Pro-PRC Laowai fucked around with this message at 07:52 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 07:36
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:...get your meat from the halal butchers and you'll be fine. Why is this true? I keep hearing halal meat is better - is it because they have higher quality standards? It's more expensive, for sure.
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Mar 17, 2013 09:38
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enigma74 posted:Why is this true? I keep hearing halal meat is better - is it because they have higher quality standards? It's more expensive, for sure. I have never really seen the prices any different. Maybe by like 1 rmb per 500g, but that's it. The big difference to keep in mind is that they don't wash their stuff as much as you'd hope they would. Pig goes into the grinder just as well as beef or lamb does. Pork has more disease associated with it and there's more incentive to cheat with it because the domestic demand for it requires that the price stays stickier. You don't want the cross contamination. Never EVER buy your meat pre-ground. Pick it out yourself and have it ground up in front of you. If you know what you're doing, you know what the meat looks like up on the hooks. This is basic standard in the wet markets. Raw beef and lamb are stupidly safe by comparison. Don't even bother going to any seller that also does pork. The other big difference is that halal butchers keep their area clean, tend to have separate knives and store their excess meats in a way that is far more sanitary. I've also seen non-halal places try to pass off doctored pork as beef or lamb. Sliced up into smaller chunks that just look off. Lamb should be coming off of a big chunk that you can see is lamb. Beef should be coming off of a big chunk that you can tell is beef. The fat distributions are different, but seriously, why guess? Why worry? Just get halal and it's all good. If you frequent a decent wet market, the sellers all know each other and they absolutely don't tolerate funny business. If my halal guy started ripping people off and complaints were lodged, his stall would be destroyed and he'd be beaten out in the street by other sellers who don't want to risk the reputation of the entire market. And Allah knows what the other halal places would do to him for ripping off muslims. Pro-PRC Laowai fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 10:34
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:I have never really seen the prices any different. Maybe by like 1 rmb per 500g, but that's it. The big difference to keep in mind is that they don't wash their stuff as much as you'd hope they would. Pig goes into the grinder just as well as beef or lamb does. Pork has more disease associated with it and there's more incentive to cheat with it because the domestic demand for it requires that the price stays stickier. You don't want the cross contamination. Ummm if a Halal guy is selling pork, then its not a Halal butcher. Pork is Haraam (not allowed) and no Halal butcher would ever sell it.
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Mar 17, 2013 10:39
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It seems like the best way to prevent getting poisoned by the food air and water in China is to leave the country or kill yourself. I guess there's a third option to be born into the very top level of the Party but it's not open to most people. The hereditary aristocracy have their own food, air and water supplies. Sometimes I don't know about this place.
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Mar 17, 2013 11:05
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Wibbleman posted:Ummm if a Halal guy is selling pork, then its not a Halal butcher. Pork is Haraam (not allowed) and no Halal butcher would ever sell it. Exactly. Point I was making is that if they even attempted to pass pork off as something else, they'd be beyond hosed. I guess what I'm saying is, don't eat pork? Just get nice beef and lamb instead from a halal place.
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Mar 17, 2013 11:42
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:I guess what I'm saying is, don't eat pork? Just get nice beef and lamb instead from a halal place. That and if you can say hello in Arabic and exchange a few words about the poster/calendar featuring the Haaj which most Hui have on the wall of their shops then you'll have one fewer shopkeeper who is going to try to stiff you. I really need to pull my finger out and start cooking more, but between teaching and research for my MA I just find a quick trip down the noodle shop to be so much easier and, more than half the time, cheaper. About a third of the meat sold in London during the reign of Victoria was condemned so this kind of issue is nothing new. There is only one thing I don't eat in China: river fish. I do miss my Lanzhou lamian - once you've lived in Gansu other beef noodles just don't cut it. Henan has poo poo chaur and the local Huimian just isn't as tasty. There's a few places round here that do a bubbling bowl of meat stock with (crappy) noodles and a plate of offal and onions - that I do like sometimes, but it isn't for summertime. Everyone worries about this though, if Xi wanted to become the most popular man in China overnight then cleaning up food standards would the way to it.
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Mar 17, 2013 12:57
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GuestBob posted:Everyone worries about this though, if Xi wanted to become the most popular man in China overnight then cleaning up food standards would the way to it. About the only realistic way I could see that happening would be a massive education campaign on food standards, whistle-blowing protection, and incentive-based reporting of food safety. Technically possible depending on how much the new government embraces technology. If Xi can maintain the anti-corruption stance he's treading it might be within reach.
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Mar 17, 2013 13:14
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:...realistic... The average pig in China is more likely to fly than live, be slaughtered, processed and served in a manner which consistently meets food safety standards. GuestBob fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Mar 18, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 13:19
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Does anything even happen to restaurants that "fail" inspection or whatever? A fine maybe? There's so many places I've eaten at with the red  on the wall from whoever's been by to inspect them but it doesn't seem like anyone gives a poo poo.
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Mar 17, 2013 13:38
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Arakan posted:Does anything even happen to restaurants that "fail" inspection or whatever? A fine maybe? There's so many places I've eaten at with the red This concerns me too. Wuhan is filled with such restaurants. On an ABC scale they don't even get Bs, they get Cs with a frowny face.
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Mar 17, 2013 13:46
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I love the grading scale. Green  is "excellent", yellow  is "very good" and red is "average." There's no level below "average" as far as I know. Way to go Chinese food safety inspectors! All food in the country is average or above average! Wooo!
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Mar 17, 2013 13:49
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Arakan posted:Does anything even happen to restaurants that "fail" inspection or whatever? A fine maybe? There's so many places I've eaten at with the red Well, if they actually fail, they lose their license and can get shut down. Of course, that license is kind of a novelty outside of built-up areas.
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Mar 17, 2013 14:35
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China getting some great publicity from the New York Times correspondent.
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Mar 17, 2013 17:37
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Yeah, I'm having a hard time understanding why an expat would want to live in China right now - terrible pollution, poor public hygiene and sanitation, and terrible infrastructure.
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Mar 17, 2013 17:52
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Pro-PRC Laowai posted:Exactly. Point I was making is that if they even attempted to pass pork off as something else, they'd be beyond hosed. You could always buy the stuff from Australia and New Zealand - we're pretty proud of our export quality. Speaking of, has there been anything uncovered in the investigation into all the dead pigs in the Shanghai river?
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Mar 17, 2013 23:05
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I'm pretty sure the smiley face is based on the level of bribe given to the inspectors. You're in a country where people fail to follow basic standards of hygiene due to ancient superstitions. How rigorous do you think the inspection is?
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Mar 18, 2013 00:25
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So what can we actually expect them to privatize? And when will the Party change its name?
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Mar 18, 2013 01:06
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^ Privatize what? Plenty of things are privatized in China... most people go the other way and mistakenly assume "China is capitalist now" without realizing just how much stuff is run by the gov't or a result of public-private "partnerships". Party name? The Communist Party doesn't mean they have to strictly be literal Marxist style Communists. I will admit the tension between ideology and reality is pretty fascinating. McGregor's book "The Party" talks a lot about that kind of issue in general -- like how the Communist Party actively recruits business leaders because useful. They're not going to change the name unless the entire Party collapses which, while a wet dream of many China scholars, doesn't appear to be happening imminently. Arkane posted:China getting some great publicity from the New York Times correspondent. On the plus side, this thread was just having a discussion about the lack of Asian-American journalists in American news outlets and also the uselessness of non-ethnic Chinese journalists in China. Equal opportunity uselessness! The restaurant sanitation ranking just reminds me of the time I met a girl who bragged about her 公務員(public servant) boyfriend who worked as a food inspector, i.e. the guy assigning smiley faces. "Oh.. I'm not dating him just because he's a public servant though, I'm not that shallow." The idea that a V Presumably that, although the PC answer is "it's stable" hitension fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Mar 18, 2013 |
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Mar 18, 2013 02:12
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hitension posted:The restaurant sanitation ranking just reminds me of the time I met a girl who bragged about her 公務員(public servant) boyfriend who worked as a food inspector, i.e. the guy assigning smiley faces. "Oh.. I'm not dating him just because he's a public servant though, I'm not that shallow." The idea that a Would that be because its expected he brings in much more $$$ then his salary from the graft?
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Mar 18, 2013 02:23
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Yeah, obviously. And of course just being a public servant (assuming you're still relatively young) has the implication of one day being a big, fat, cognac-drinking, uber-corrupt, 500-apartment-owning deputy party secretary for some middle-of-nowhere village. I still really want to get some official salary numbers, as well as spelled-out perks (like free housing and whatever else is statutorily included in government jobs). I'm assuming a smiley-face-assigner can't get more than 5000 RMB a month.
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Mar 18, 2013 02:28
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OwlBot 2000 posted:And when will the Party change its name? This is interesting because what I was taught was the main support base of the Party in Chinese Politics in school appears to be eroding rapidly. If what I was taught was correct, the Party's "good name" exists primarily in the older rural population whose family benefited directly from the revolution. These people are dying and their children are leaving (often illegally) and not coming back. In the cities, as far as I can tell the Party has no cachet and everyone goes about their lives quietly hating it. People constantly warn us not to look for a democratic revolution in China or that China will not follow the trajectory described by virtually all the other autocratic industrialized nations over the past 100 years, but I get the feeling that we hear that analysis to a large part because its counterargument simply can't be expressed safely in China. What I see is a Party that has already lost its credibility with a majority of the people and, rather than being able to solve its own problems, much less the problems facing the nation, appears to be sliding inexorably into kleptocracy. It seems to me like things are just going to keep getting worse until they reach a breaking point. There's a fair amount of quiet despair here; no Chinese that I know (well, only one out of a lot) has ever expressed the expectation that the Party will improve on its own.
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Mar 18, 2013 02:31
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I have to wonder what kind of system could effectively administrate a nation of a billion + souls. I keep coming to the conclusion that there isn't one
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Mar 18, 2013 02:34
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WarpedNaba posted:I have to wonder what kind of system could effectively administrate a nation of a billion + souls. I thought I was in the Pope thread for a second.
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Mar 18, 2013 02:35
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I like to imagine what it would be like today if the anarchists that wanted to use Esperanto as a national language had won and survived to the current day.
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Mar 18, 2013 02:36
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I just like to look at China like a real-life Brazil and then it becomes a lot more fun.
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Mar 18, 2013 03:15
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WarpedNaba posted:I have to wonder what kind of system could effectively administrate a nation of a billion + souls. No single system. Get me drunk and I will ramble enthusiastically about how greater disparities in wealth and economic practices amongst provinces will inevitably push China towards a more federal model.
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Mar 18, 2013 03:15
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