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Sub Rosa posted:Your post was very helpful, but this brings up a follow up question. Can charges be brought against a Brother after he demits? I'll be at the lodge tomorrow and will reread the relevant sections of the code and confer with brothers about such as scenario. My initial thought is yes, charges could certainly be brought against a dimitted brother, as dimitting is voluntary relinquishing membership in a Lodge, not one's status as a Mason. My feeling is that the grand lodge governing the lodge from which the brother had dimitted would continue to claim jurisdiction. Particularly if the brother in question still resided in their geographic bailiwick. Again, anything I've said that isn't a quote should be taken only as my opinion. Masonic jurisprudence can be more confounding than the regular legal system.
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Mar 9, 2013 05:25
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Glorified Scrivener posted:My initial thought is yes, charges could certainly be brought against a dimitted brother, as dimitting is voluntary relinquishing membership in a Lodge, not one's status as a Mason. My feeling is that the grand lodge governing the lodge from which the brother had dimitted would continue to claim jurisdiction. Particularly if the brother in question still resided in their geographic bailiwick. Location matters here too. In Ohio and I believe MD as well dimitting is for just your lodge, but you are required by the grand Lodge to maintain affiliation with at least one lodge. In Ohio, you lose your traveling privileges after one month of non-affiliation and are no longer afforded the status of Mason until you petition a lodge and are balloted again (but you don't receive degrees). My reading earlier today seemed to indicate that dimits allow for rejoining without a ballot by petition, but need to be voted to be accepted, whereas resigning does not require a vote, but the brother would need to be balloted to rejoin. There's also some jurisdictional value in a dimit. If a brother dimits the lodge he is leaving releases its Masonic jurisdiction over him. This is what allows him to petition a new Lodge. Otherwise the new Lodge must seek permission from the old before they can read a petition from that brother.
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Mar 9, 2013 05:46
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I've got an Endowed Membership to the Grand Lodge of Texas. Say (purely hypothetically; I have no plans) that I was to move back to Oklahoma. Can plural memberships be had between Grand Lodges, or only between Lodges that are both under the same Grand Lodge jurisdiction? Would relocation out of state require a demit from GLoTX, and them treating my Endowed membership as if I'd passed away and so forth? I'm guessing the various Grand Lodges have limits on how long you can be a "visitor" in another jurisdiction? Of course without getting a Letter of Good Standing from TX and then joining GLoOK, I wouldn't have voting rights in an OK lodge or the ability to hold any office, etc.
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Mar 9, 2013 08:07
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mrbill posted:I've got an Endowed Membership to the Grand Lodge of Texas. What is that? I've never heard of that term in CA.
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Mar 9, 2013 08:52
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mrbill posted:I've got an Endowed Membership to the Grand Lodge of Texas. I'm a member of Western Sun No. 91, GL of Ohio F&AM, and Columbia No. 58, GL of Maryland AF&AM, so you can be a plural member between Grand Lodges so long as they are regular to one another. quote:Would relocation out of state require a demit from GLoTX, and them treating my Endowed membership as if I'd passed away and so forth? There's a pretty good chance I won't return to my mother lodge within the year, or even in the foreseeable future. It's 7 hours away and aside from the brethren there there's nobody I care to visit. I have the option to dimit, but I figured they deserve a few more years a dues from me. quote:I'm guessing the various Grand Lodges have limits on how long you can be a "visitor" in another jurisdiction? Of course without getting a Letter of Good Standing from TX and then joining GLoOK, I wouldn't have voting rights in an OK lodge or the ability to hold any office, etc. I've never heard of a limit on the amount of times you can visit. I visited my lodge in Maryland for 3 months of meetings (7 in all I believe) while my petition was processing. At some point the Lodge may ask you to petition just to save the poor SD's breath if it's a lodge that announces visitors. Lovable Luciferian posted:What is that? I've never heard of that term in CA. Endowed Memberships are basically lifetime memberships. Rather than paying a yearly dues, some GLs offer an endowed membership where you pay one big lump sum (last I checked in Ohio it was $800, it may be more now) which is held in trust for your lodge in perpetuity and the interest and growth of which covers your side of the GL assessment. They send you a fresh dues card yearly, and when you pass the money gets disbursed to the lodge or something like this. Basically it's a big payment for life membership that won't expire. In some places you can move it within jurisdictions but in others you can't, so their value is generally pretty diminished if you're planning to move within the state and may dimit from your mother lodge, but if you're planning to stick around for a while it's a pretty good value ($800 in OH is 16 years of dues, so if you're gonna be there for 17 years it's solid, and also it saves you value versus inflation to invest in 2013 dollars rather than in 2013, 2014, 2015. . .)
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Mar 9, 2013 13:18
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Here in California we have life memberships, which got something of an overhaul at last year's Grand Communication. If memory serves, they still aren't transferable (else you could buy one at a Lodge with very low dues then movie it to one with expensive dues), but otherwise it sounds very similar. The idea is that, while it provides very limited usefulness for the Lodge while you're alive, once you die it is a source of recurring interest income for the Lodge. As to belonging to Lodges in multiple jurisdictions, we have affiliated members from all over the country and without, which is pretty neat, talking with them about how our ritual differs and of the various customs and traditions present across the globe.
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Mar 9, 2013 18:34
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This kind of reminds me of something I've been wondering about. I'm planning to move in the not too distant future, though staying in the same state. The area I'm looking at is a couple hours drive away, but still within the jurisdiction of the shrine where I live now. Just over the border (very short drive) is another shrine. Are you allowed to apply to a shrine outside the jurisdiction where you live, or do you have to keep within boundaries regardless of comparative distances?
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Mar 10, 2013 20:15
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You can join any shrine that you want. I have long been a member of a shrine outside of my region just because I don't know anyone in the one near me.
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Mar 10, 2013 21:04
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Brother Sir Knight QPZIL, checking in 
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Mar 10, 2013 21:38
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QPZIL posted:Brother Sir Knight QPZIL, checking in I am moving forward with the York degrees next month, although -- I must admit -- every time I see someone use "sir knight" as a reference rather than an address, the English speaker and former magazine/newspaper editor in me twitches. "Sir knight" is a term of *address* ("Sir knight, how are you this evening?') and not a term of reference ("Do you know that sir knight over there?"). KNIGHT is the term of reference. DAMMIT. THat always makes me twitch, and I just know I'm going to have issues with it.
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Mar 11, 2013 02:42
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Effingham posted:I am moving forward with the York degrees next month, although -- I must admit -- every time I see someone use "sir knight" as a reference rather than an address, the English speaker and former magazine/newspaper editor in me twitches. Be sure to say that verbatim during the degree.
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Mar 11, 2013 03:04
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Sub Rosa posted:Your post was very helpful, but this brings up a follow up question. Can charges be brought against a Brother after he demits? I've conferred with some knowledgeable brethren and the consensus is that a dimitted mason could have charges brought against them. Here Montana the Jurisdiction would be held by the oldest extant lodge in the town in which the brother resided. There will be some variance in who has jurisdiction depending on the constitution and rules of the governing grand lodge.
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Mar 11, 2013 20:19
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Lovable Luciferian posted:Be sure to say that verbatim during the degree. I think I'll pass on that bit of advice.  Although I have mentioned it to a few brothers, and their response is generally, "Huh. I never thought of that. Well, it's how *we* do it, though, so..."
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Mar 11, 2013 22:42
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Glorified Scrivener posted:There will be some variance in who has jurisdiction depending on the constitution and rules of the governing grand lodge.
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Mar 12, 2013 01:11
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Just realized there was a thread here. I am currently master of St. George Lodge #239, Kentucky. If any brothers care to come to Louisville for a visit, send me a PM. We're holding degrees about once every two months at the moment.
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Mar 12, 2013 05:01
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ArchDemon posted:Just realized there was a thread here. I am currently master of St. George Lodge #239, Kentucky. If any brothers care to come to Louisville for a visit, send me a PM. We're holding degrees about once every two months at the moment. I went to a Third Degree in Kentucky once. Never again.
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Mar 12, 2013 06:04
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Sub Rosa posted:I went to a Third Degree in Kentucky once. Never again. In Kentucky I believe the tagline you're looking for is "Not even once"
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Mar 12, 2013 08:39
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Whoa! What is wrong with Kentucky? They make awesome chicken and this weird tasting jelly but some FM details would be nice.
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Mar 12, 2013 10:02
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Dang, some hatin' brethren up in here.
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Mar 12, 2013 13:24
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Sub Rosa posted:Which of course would be even further complicated if the Mason in question resides in a state he holds no affiliations in Well, yes and no, the code and constitutions of most Grand Lodges have some very broad language about having authority over sojourning brethren in their territory, covering non-affiliates and those affiliated with other Grand Lodges. Whether or not charges would be brought against a brother residing in another jurisdiction and being non-affiliated would probably depend on the nature and severity of the charges, as well as how much will there was to pursue charges. I don't want to derail the thread into a long discussion of the minutiae of masonic jurisprudence, so my last thought on the matter is that geographic distance is no barrier to charges being brought, either practically or legalistically. Whether or not it was done would depend on the circumstances. Feel free to send me a PM, but I think that only someone familiar with the situation and the Lodges & Grand Lodges involved could give any useful advice.
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Mar 12, 2013 15:56
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Keetron posted:Whoa! What is wrong with Kentucky? They make awesome chicken and this weird tasting jelly but some FM details would be nice. Unable to go into too much detail but I personally really like the aspect of the work that is under scrutiny here. Suffice it to say they can get a little rowdy during the degree work. I have never once had a bad visit to a Kentucky Lodge.
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Mar 12, 2013 16:10
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I've started a blog to write down my Masonic ruminations - first post HERE. Might not be of interest to anybody, but hey who knows.
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Mar 12, 2013 16:27
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Most Excellent Master degree tonight. I'm really excited about this. One of the guys mentioned the other day in passing that there is at least 1 more (more than one?) where the candidate is hookwinked. I wasn't expecting anymore degrees to be like that, so now before each degree I'm wondering if this is the one where it's happening haha (it's no secret that some of the degrees are hookwinked, right? If it's any issue, I'll gladly take that part out). Anyway, just wanted to express my excitement about continuing to seek more light.
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Mar 13, 2013 20:00
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imac1984 posted:Most Excellent Master degree tonight. I'm really excited about this. One of the guys mentioned the other day in passing that there is at least 1 more (more than one?) where the candidate is hookwinked. I wasn't expecting anymore degrees to be like that, so now before each degree I'm wondering if this is the one where it's happening haha (it's no secret that some of the degrees are hookwinked, right? If it's any issue, I'll gladly take that part out). Anyway, just wanted to express my excitement about continuing to seek more light. How far are you along? Or rather, what have you done/not done? I'm guessing 1/2/3/Mark/Past?
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Mar 13, 2013 20:04
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QPZIL posted:How far are you along? Or rather, what have you done/not done? I'm guessing 1/2/3/Mark/Past? Exactly. They did Mark and PM together in January and are just now getting to MEM. Royal Arch is happening on April 9th and then they are doing the 2 Cryptic degrees together a couple weeks after that. I'm jealous of you getting to do the entire freaking YR in one day. I initially wasn't going to do the Commandery because of the whole Christian obligation thing. After watching the last couple pages here unfold, I decided to go talk to our secretary, who is also the current EM of the Commandery I'd be joining, and he showed me the part of the obligation that concerned me. I think I'm ok with the way that it's worded in our jurisdiction (MD) so it looks I'll be taking the YR all the way to the top now! imac1984 fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Mar 13, 2013 |
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Mar 13, 2013 20:24
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imac1984 posted:Exactly. They did Mark and PM together in January and are just now getting to MEM. Royal Arch is happening on April 9th and then they are doing the 2 Cryptic degrees together a couple weeks after that. I'm jealous of you getting to do the entire freaking YR in one day. I initially wasn't going to do the Commandery because of the whole Christian obligation thing. After following the last couple pages here unfold, I decided to go talk to our secretary, who is also the current EM of the Commandery I'd be joining, and he showed me the part of the obligation that concerned me. I think I'm ok with the way that it's worded in our jurisdiction (MD) so it looks I'll be taking the YR all the way to the top now! I do wish I had taken it over a longer period of time. The way I explained it to my fiancee was like watching a 9-hour movie full of awe and beauty and steeped in history, but completely over your head and baffling - and then having like 300 years of literature written about it. Now that I've been bombarded with a full day and a half of degree work, I have the daunting task of wanting to read as much as I can about the degree work and the history and the symbolism and everything. Luckily, the Chivalric orders are more historical than symbolic, though they're certainly full of symbolism. But, if I had just gone through the Mark/PM degrees, I could have a month or two to study and digest what I went through first.  Best of luck to you - the Royal Arch degree was pretty impressive and awesome, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Feel free to PM if you want to discuss or have any questions; I'm curious about your conversation with your secretary.
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Mar 13, 2013 20:33
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QPZIL posted:I do wish I had taken it over a longer period of time. The way I explained it to my fiancee was like watching a 9-hour movie full of awe and beauty and steeped in history, but completely over your head and baffling - and then having like 300 years of literature written about it. Now that I've been bombarded with a full day and a half of degree work, I have the daunting task of wanting to read as much as I can about the degree work and the history and the symbolism and everything. Gotta admit, that degree wasn't my favorite. I LOVE the history behind it though. I'm definitely looking forward to the Royal Arch in a few weeks. btw I'll shoot you a PM at some point here today about the talk I had with our secretary.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:42
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Man, I can't wait to piece together a KT uniform, and then... not wear it for a long time  . Apparently since the North Carolina York Rite Bodies are all combined, the meetings are opened for 4 months as a Chapter, 4 months as a Council, and 4 months as a Commandery. So uh, I guess I'd get to wear it to 4 meetings, and 2 days of degree conferral. But GAH it's so cool looking. Eh, anyway.I was reading through our Grand Lodge code and constitution, and found out that I'm not allowed to rock a baller apron at lodge meetings  quote:REG. 89-2 MASONIC APRON. That's kind of a bummer. I would love to pick up an 18th or 19th century apron and wear it to lodge.
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Mar 15, 2013 04:02
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QPZIL posted:Man, I can't wait to piece together a KT uniform, and then... not wear it for a long time That's probably for the best because they are insanely expensive. A new uniform will run over $1k, just the chapeau and sword alone would be over $700. Most Commanderies have an armory though, so if you are interested, many can provide you with a uniform from that. However, you generally do not wear a uniform unless you are an officer and honestly you don't want to... you will sweat your rear end off and be half dead by the end of any meeting. You have no idea how much pain the officers are in after putting on an OoT. 
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Mar 15, 2013 04:32
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Straithate posted:That's probably for the best because they are insanely expensive. A new uniform will run over $1k, just the chapeau and sword alone would be over $700. Most Commanderies have an armory though, so if you are interested, many can provide you with a uniform from that. However, you generally do not wear a uniform unless you are an officer and honestly you don't want to... you will sweat your rear end off and be half dead by the end of any meeting. You have no idea how much pain the officers are in after putting on an OoT. A Past Grand Commander told me to just look on eBay Chapeau - $50 Sword - $30 Belt - $20-50 Old Naval Officer Coat - $20 Patches from the Commandery Boom, uniform. Granted, it may have some old dead guy's name engraved on the sword, but uh... No, you're totally right though. I'm just an eager person by nature.
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Mar 15, 2013 04:35
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Yeah eBay can be a good place to get most of the pieces for really cheap, unfortunately, a lot will be falling apart. My dad bought his chapeau from some guy on eBay and everywhere he went there were a million ostrich feathers on the floor or stuck to people. Also, most Commanderies will pay for you to get a uniform if you are Junior Warden and above.
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Mar 15, 2013 04:40
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QPZIL posted:That's kind of a bummer. I would love to pick up an 18th or 19th century apron and wear it to lodge. Depending on the cost, you could just grab the apron and wear it to lodge and see what your brothers say. In our lodge we have a few Brothers who came from other GL and they sport awesome aprons, as opposed to the plain white/blue ones the rest of us have. Nobody gives a poo poo. And this triggers me that if I even switch lodges, I will grab an awesome apron from somewhere and pretend I had it all the time.
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Mar 15, 2013 08:26
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QPZIL posted:I was reading through our Grand Lodge code and constitution, and found out that I'm not allowed to rock a baller apron at lodge meetings If that rule ever changes, this is the guy to go to: http://www.craftsmansapron.com/bespoke.html He's actually giving a speech at a sister lodge here in NH in a couple of weeks, but I won't be able to attend.
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Mar 15, 2013 14:03
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There is only one store in boston that carries this stuff, and it was his last bottle:
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Mar 15, 2013 16:42
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lord1234 posted:There is only one store in boston that carries this stuff, and it was his last bottle: I got a bottle of this for a Christmas gift for my first signer and the man who saw me through the degrees and taught me all the examinations (we later went on to visit Scotland together). I think it is important to note the description it was given by Jim Murray of The Whiskey Bible: quote:"The perfect nose to experience blindfolded (how else...?) as the depth of the fruit and grain - and their happy intermingling - is astonishing. A few under-ripe gooseberries here. Light, graceful arrival with the early emphasis on a Speyside malt theme before some grain and oak kicks in. Pretty long with touches of cocoa though the fresh malt lingers. A high quality blend that doesn't stint on the malt. The nose, in particular, is sublime. - 92 points.” It is actually quite good for a blended Scotch. You can tell the malt is there, but there is a pleasant characteristic Speyside sweetness.
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Mar 15, 2013 16:47
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I have a new post up and a domain for my blog. http://threeknocks.net I wrote a bit on the symbolism of the B&J pillars.
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Mar 15, 2013 17:45
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I haven't updated it in years, but I had a blog from when I was going through the degrees as well, and I posted some of the stuff I wrote for my lodge (CA requires essays): http://masonsdiary.blogspot.com/
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Mar 15, 2013 17:55
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QPZIL posted:Man, I can't wait to piece together a KT uniform, and then... not wear it for a long time Bummer on both levels. I love the historical aprons, and I plan on getting a Rev-War era style one after I step down from the East in several years. (For the time being, the Lodge is supplying my embroidered officer aprons ) Heck, I think I might get one for traveling to other Lodges...
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Mar 15, 2013 18:02
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QPZIL posted:I wrote a bit on the symbolism of the B&J pillars. Switch the accented syllables on both. The B pillar is accented on the first syllable, and the J pillar is accented on the second syllable. The source for this is that I speak, read, and write Hebrew.
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Mar 17, 2013 06:43
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Ari posted:Switch the accented syllables on both. The B pillar is accented on the first syllable, and the J pillar is accented on the second syllable. The source for this is that I speak, read, and write Hebrew. Add a P pillar and everything will become clear to you.
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Mar 17, 2013 06:48
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