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ryan8723 posted:
This is really, really common. I've survived (or not) maybe ten rounds of layoffs in the last five years, and only once did I find out about them before they were in the papers. In one case (the non-survival), I knew from the morning newspaper that my department no longer existed before I even got into work.
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Mar 12, 2013 16:55
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That is horrible! 
How do they justify not telling employees about something major? Because it would affect business deals? That's the epitome of "gently caress You" from upper management.
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Got called out for having a bad tone with the DumbBoss in the meeting yesterday. Maybe I wouldn't have to correct you like a small child if you would understand the basic functions of our loving job. It's been three years, you think you would know what the different kinds of projects are called. But no, I need to RESPECT him in front of the group
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Mar 12, 2013 17:00
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Kerbtree posted:Christ. Plenty of places in the UK just BACS pay straight into your account then email you the breakdown slip. Direct deposit and a mail with a password protected PDF with the pay stub. (The password was chosen by me when I got hired) The only thing that could be easier was at my old place where the money was deposited and the stub was mailed to my E-boks. Now I'm uploading them there myself.
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Mar 12, 2013 17:36
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Defenestration posted:Got called out for having a bad tone with the DumbBoss in the meeting yesterday. Maybe I wouldn't have to correct you like a small child if you would understand the basic functions of our loving job. It's been three years, you think you would know what the different kinds of projects are called. No, you need to appear to treat him with respect. You need to remember that you're dealing with someone who can fire you (or talk to someone who can fire you). These people in management got there with what seems to be a very finely tuned sense of jackassery combined with never admitting fault. Yes, it's frustrating as hell to deal with them. Yes, they probably can't do the job nearly as well as you. That doesn't matter. You say "yes sir" or "no sir", you correct them as tactfully as you possibly can, and you document the gently caress out of every stupid decision and every time they didn't take your advice. That way you aren't upsetting them and you're covered when the bad times come down the line.
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Mar 12, 2013 18:18
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ItalicSquirrels posted:That way you aren't upsetting them and you're covered when the bad times come down the line. Documenting to Cover Your rear end will do very little when the poo poo hits the fan. The people you are dealing with will downright lie it ever happened, accuse you of fabricating mails and smooth talk their way out of a hard spot, while making you look like a nit-picking rear end in a top hat that is out to get someone. You'd better invest in people skills and a strong internal and external network. This is part of doing your job well, ensuring future employment. No, it is not in your job description nor will it refer to anything you learned in engineering school but catch up or get out.
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Mar 12, 2013 19:31
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I am amazed by how much time people spend "pooping" at work now that there are smartphones. I went in to brush my teeth after lunch. There were a pair of scuffed Doc Martens beneath the stall. Two hours later, I went back to take a dump. He was still there after I finished and left. Maybe he's dead in there?
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Mar 12, 2013 19:44
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ryan8723 posted:
Hahahaha, oh you. I found out about a major product delay once when random newspapers started calling me at 5 in the morning looking for comment on it. Imagine the Wall Street Journal rolls you out of bed to ask you why your latest thing is delayed and demands comment.
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Mar 12, 2013 19:47
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If you're going to be there for hours, why not just go to a coffee shop?
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Mar 12, 2013 20:31
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So a new position opened up at my company for a different project but with a higher pay band (only by one). I spoke with both my current and the hiring manager about it, applied for it and I've also got at least one person on that team working to get me on board. It seems like a good prospect and a good fit, but I'll have to wait and see. But I can't lie and say I wouldn't be pissed if I didn't get it. Not because I hate my current position or anything, just the fact the job is similar to the one I have now but my pay band is lower whereas the other position is one higher (and with slightly less responsibilities). Also, my current position is getting some new responsibilities in the next few months, though they are supposed to be limited, it already feels like the person I'm supposed to be helping is just using it as an excuse to shuffle all the related work to my deck. Oh, all that and the fact that the hiring manager let it slip during an informal interview that the pay band is what most people in the office already have, except for me and a few other people hired in the last three years. Ugh. I guess the silver lining is regardless of what happens, annual cost of living pay raises/reviews are in April 
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Mar 12, 2013 20:47
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Good luck! I'm in almost exactly the same situation but sadly it's not working out too good so far, hopefully you'll do better. The position I applied for is also very similar to what I do now with great feedback, so I know I'm an almost perfect fit. They'd need to relocate me and none of the three languages they're looking for match the five I speak, but working here I know they're "nice to have" at best, because everyone has to speak English anyway. I also had my direct manager, a director with who I'm now working, and possibly their boss recommending me for this position, but despite everything seemingly matching up, I haven't heard anything from anyone since a phone interview with the hiring team two weeks ago, to the point of my email to the interviewers being ignored. The position's been open for over a month so I know they're not overflowing with good candidates. I'm almost more disappointed for them that they won't be getting me, than I am for not getting the job 
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Mar 12, 2013 22:06
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basx posted:I am amazed by how much time people spend "pooping" at work now that there are smartphones. I went in to brush my teeth after lunch. There were a pair of scuffed Doc Martens beneath the stall. At my last employer in Corporate America© before I went back to school, there was a guy who'd spend most of the day on the internet, come in after everyone else, leave before everyone else, and of course was a frequent bathroom stall visitor. See, I don't have any particular problem with the two former activities. His assigned job duties were so minimal that I'm sure he was accomplishing them with ease, while still having time to check fantasy baseball scores, and avoiding most of both the AM and PM rush hours by having a shorter workday. But the bathroom stall occupancy was goddamn ridiculous, and this was exacerbated by the fact that our fully-occupied floor of the building (a medium-sized skyscraper in downtown Chicago) had only THREE stalls in the men's room. So at about 10:30, when everyone's coffee shits* start kicking in and people need to, you know, actually use the stall, he's in there for 30 minutes at a time contemplating whatever paperback novel he brought in there with him. * The subject of coffee reminds me of another story from that place. On the internal website, they had a quality improvement system, where employees could suggest changes in anything the company does. A panel of employees would then get together and decide if the proposed change was beneficial, and if so the change was implemented. Well one suggestion on this quality improvement system was repeatedly brought up by the company's office services director; he proposed that the company stop ordering Starbucks coffee for the two kitchens on each floor and switch to something else because the monthly budget for that coffee was something in the neighborhood of $5,000-$10,000. The quality improvement panel said nope to this, I guess they just loved their loving Starbucks and were too lazy to walk across the street to get a cup.
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Mar 13, 2013 04:11
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Not related to my current job, but my boss at the last job, along with about half the office got put on an performance improvement plan, according to the latest facebook rumormongering from a former coworker there. Doesn't that pretty much mean they're going to get shitcanned?
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Mar 13, 2013 06:58
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ryan8723 posted:Is there an HR presentation that isn't loving useless? Seriously is there? Because I've never seen one that was an absolute waste of my time. They showed us this. It was great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcg53bRktCg
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Mar 13, 2013 07:36
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Peven Stan posted:Not related to my current job, but my boss at the last job, along with about half the office got put on an performance improvement plan, according to the latest facebook rumormongering from a former coworker there. Doesn't that pretty much mean they're going to get shitcanned? Only if they don't meet the bare minimum required by the PIP before their next annual review. It's pretty hard to get fired these days unless you can't scrounge up a single nano-gently caress to give.
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Mar 13, 2013 17:35
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It's actually very easy to get fired these days and it often has absolutely nothing to do with how much of a gently caress you give.
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Mar 13, 2013 18:08
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Earwicker posted:It's actually very easy to get fired these days and it often has absolutely nothing to do with how much of a gently caress you give. I think this discussion rather depends on where you live. In the UK, it's pretty drat hard to get fired especially in a corporate role. In the USA, doesn't it rather depend on whether your state is a rather ironically named 'right to work' state or not?
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Mar 13, 2013 18:31
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rolleyes posted:I think this discussion rather depends on where you live. In the UK, it's pretty drat hard to get fired especially in a corporate role. In the USA, doesn't it rather depend on whether your state is a rather ironically named 'right to work' state or not? Right to work (for less) only concerns unions. All states are at-will states I think.
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Mar 13, 2013 18:34
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Right to work is more anti-union than anything else. What you're thinking of is "at will" employment, meaning that either the company or you can terminate your employment contract at any time. I'm reasonably certain that all states have some version of this built into their laws. Now technically, you can't be fired for some things e.g. race, religion, Edit: It looks like military vets are actually not a protected class. My state considers them as such, but the laws are different in every state. Initio fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Mar 13, 2013 |
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Mar 13, 2013 18:42
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Peven Stan posted:Right to work (for less) only concerns unions. All states are at-will states I think. Apologies, not living there I always get those two mixed up. I had it in my mind that there were a couple of states where at-will didn't apply, but I've probably got that wrong too.
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Mar 13, 2013 18:42
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rolleyes posted:Apologies, not living there I always get those two mixed up. I had it in my mind that there were a couple of states where at-will didn't apply, but I've probably got that wrong too. I'm pretty sure you are correct in that there are some states that have some sort of exemption. However in general if you are in the US and someone wants to fire you, they can just do it, and it often has nothing to do with your actual productivity. Though at certain levels firings might look like resignations from the outside.
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Mar 13, 2013 18:50
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Earwicker posted:I'm pretty sure you are correct in that there are some states that have some sort of exemption. Montana is the one exception. Though the specific implementation was not necessarily to the benefit of employees.
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Mar 13, 2013 19:14
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Earwicker posted:I'm pretty sure you are correct in that there are some states that have some sort of exemption. I witnessed a firing that was like this. Person with a long history of work problems slept in and missed a meeting with the federal mediation and conciliation service which resulted in a default judgement for the employer. She was given a one month "vacation" and asked to resign. Though if she wanted to, she could have filed a grievance with the union that covered us at the time and dragged it out, but she got a neutral recommendation out of resigning quietly and not involving the union.
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Mar 13, 2013 19:37
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quote:Though at certain levels firings might look like resignations from the outside. Also, many (most?) companies that have any sort of severance or termination packages tend to put in the caveat that they are rescinded in the event of any retaliatory actions by the terminated employee. My last severance package listed union grievance, public statements against the company, contesting the firing to HR, any federal or civil suits leveled against company, or participation in any class action suit against the company during a period of two years following completion of employment as cause for rescinding the severance payments. This also applied to golden parachutes. Shut up, take your money, and get out. Don't play nice and your parachute is voided.
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Mar 13, 2013 20:15
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Well an update to my story. The hiring manager wants me to interview for the position next week. I went to my current manager to let her know (and she has been an absolutely amazing first boss in my first "real" job, pretty much the Grandmother I never had but in boss form) and she told me that the hiring manager let her know and apologized for 'stealing' her best people. My boss then began to tear up a little bit as she said she was glad I was looking for new roles and ways to learn within the company and hoped I landed the new position. Feels good but at the same time, it absolutely made me feel bad. God dammit
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Mar 13, 2013 21:01
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To be clear, it's very difficult to get fired, at least in my state. But you make your list and wait for the next re-org, because it's easy as hell to lay people off.
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Mar 14, 2013 03:55
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Sundae posted:This also applied to golden parachutes. Shut up, take your money, and get out. Don't play nice and your parachute is voided. My last layoff they made me sign a non-disparagement to get my severance, so when people ask I say, "Oh, they laid me off and they made me sign a non-disparagement" and let their imaginations take it from there.
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Mar 14, 2013 04:04
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Dr. Kyle Farnsworth posted:My last layoff they made me sign a non-disparagement to get my severance, so when people ask I say, "Oh, they laid me off and they made me sign a non-disparagement" and let their imaginations take it from there. Yep. Pretty much all you can do.
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Mar 14, 2013 16:03
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I think my HR hosed me over when I started this job. I interviewed for two position and got the title and pay for one (the least prestigious one) and the responsibilities of the other. My manager recognizes this though and promised I would get my title changed and pay adjusted to the appropriate level in January when the company does it's annual evaluation of employess. But I don't want to wait that long. Is three months too soon to start applying for other jobs?
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Mar 17, 2013 12:40
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COUNTIN THE BILLIES posted:I think my HR hosed me over when I started this job. I interviewed for two position and got the title and pay for one (the least prestigious one) and the responsibilities of the other. My manager recognizes this though and promised I would get my title changed and pay adjusted to the appropriate level in January when the company does it's annual evaluation of employess. But I don't want to wait that long. Not at all! A more fluid workforce is the future! 
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Mar 17, 2013 12:59
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COUNTIN THE BILLIES posted:I think my HR hosed me over when I started this job. I interviewed for two position and got the title and pay for one (the least prestigious one) and the responsibilities of the other. My manager recognizes this though and promised I would get my title changed and pay adjusted to the appropriate level in January when the company does it's annual evaluation of employess. But I don't want to wait that long. Find another job RFN. Ask you boss if he'll match the offer AND make the correct pay for your responsibilities retroactive to your start date. Then give your notice, 'cause there's no way that's happening.
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Mar 17, 2013 13:17
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I don't know why people say to even ask the company to match the offer. I really just can't imagine this working out in your favor at all.
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Mar 17, 2013 16:59
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COUNTIN THE BILLIES posted:I think my HR hosed me over when I started this job. I interviewed for two position and got the title and pay for one (the least prestigious one) and the responsibilities of the other. My manager recognizes this though and promised I would get my title changed and pay adjusted to the appropriate level in January when the company does it's annual evaluation of employess. But I don't want to wait that long. This sort of thing is common. HR is well aware that your starting wage at a company is the single biggest determinant of how much they'll pay you in your entire employment relationship. They'll make it a big deal to throw you some sort of bone in January - a measly 2k or whatever; whereas if they had been fair in the beginning, you'd be earning a far bigger wage right now and for the rest of the time there. I used to worry about spending too little time at companies. Not anymore - get the hell out of there if you aren't being compensated fairly and by someone acting in good faith (so long as you have marketable skills, of course).
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Mar 17, 2013 18:02
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Harry posted:I don't know why people say to even ask the company to match the offer. I really just can't imagine this working out in your favor at all. Because occasionally, very, very occasionally, it's not that the company's trying to short-change you, it's just that the HR bod, you manager, whoever, is busy-as-hell/distracted/just plain doesn't know what the going rate is, and they react sensibly and realise that it's cheaper to pay you the going rate than have to hire someone new at the going rate with all the associated costs. If you've been in a position for some time, slowly accumulating responsibilities, you could be bloody expensive to replace. Some people (management who don't want to pay an appropriate wage) might view this as extortion, but that's just a fancy way of saying "paying you what you're worth."
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Mar 17, 2013 20:35
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Harry posted:I don't know why people say to even ask the company to match the offer. I really just can't imagine this working out in your favor at all. Professional courtesy. fake edit: ^^^ and that
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Mar 17, 2013 20:50
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Kerbtree posted:Because occasionally, very, very occasionally, it's not that the company's trying to short-change you, it's just that the HR bod, you manager, whoever, is busy-as-hell/distracted/just plain doesn't know what the going rate is, and they react sensibly and realise that it's cheaper to pay you the going rate than have to hire someone new at the going rate with all the associated costs. If you've been in a position for some time, slowly accumulating responsibilities, you could be bloody expensive to replace. Some people (management who don't want to pay an appropriate wage) might view this as extortion, but that's just a fancy way of saying "paying you what you're worth." Maybe if you've been there for a while (5+ years), but anything short of that I just can't imagine any management not seeing you as a flight risk since well, you are.
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Mar 17, 2013 21:28
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Harry posted:Maybe if you've been there for a while (5+ years), but anything short of that I just can't imagine any management not seeing you as a flight risk since well, you are. Er, yeah - that was kind of what I was failing to say - it's entirely dependent on company er.. personality. It's a sight easier to get them to agree to it without it being seen as predatory/"holding your breath" in a small company, but the budget will be tighter unless they're making money hand-over-fist. Also, just plain how stupid/malicious/wannabe-Machiavelli your management are. Kindly Uncle Mike everyone's favourite director's more likely to give you a significant raise because you're buying a house and there's a kid on the way than FuckYou McRandroid, who'd get the government to force the unemployed to do your job for free if he could work out how. Kerbtree fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 21:48
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Kerbtree posted:Er, yeah - that was kind of what I was failing to say - it's entirely dependent on company er.. personality. It's a sight easier to get them to agree to it without it being seen as predatory/"holding your breath" in a small company, but the budget will be tighter unless they're making money hand-over-fist. Also probably depends on the corporate culture. Here pretty much the only way to advance is to jump from various division to various other divisions so they pretty much count on people bailing every 3-4 years; if you come with an offer they'll usually try to meet it.
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Mar 19, 2013 14:14
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Yeah in my office, my manager even told me that people usually jump ship in 2 or 3 years since so many of company's competitors are in the area. I have started to look for new opportunities now.
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Mar 19, 2013 15:00
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So my big time career in corporate started, joined an international company with 150.000 employees. Day 1: Ate something bad the night before, slept only a few hours and went to my onboarding day sick as a dog. Nobody noticed until I said I wasn't feeling well and can we please have a break from this 4 hour HR meeting? Did I mention this was all 1on1 meetings as there were no others joining that day? Then moved to the customer site, another huge corporation. No logins were in place, nothing was arranged for and the stuff that was requested on time got lost, resubmit everything please? Got a sneak peak at my workload for the coming months, I think I will go and write a novel or learn a new skill that looks like work. Day 2: Arrived at customer site with my own machine, read documents. That was it. So while this might not be the most interesting week in my life, everyone was friendly, I got the advice to create a big network because I would likely have some spare time so spend it on personal relationships. The pay is so good, it makes up for everything and with the jobmarket as it is, things could have been like last week when I had no income. Knowing myself, I aim to channel all my energy into getting the network in place and then moving big projects to my desk with the added self-promotion. Or end up disappointed and leave in a few months.
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Mar 19, 2013 16:26
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Rodent Mortician posted:Also probably depends on the corporate culture. Here pretty much the only way to advance is to jump from various division to various other divisions so they pretty much count on people bailing every 3-4 years; if you come with an offer they'll usually try to meet it. Where I work the only way to advance is to either take over someone else's responsibilities after they've left and add them to your own and then hope/wait (depending on who you report to) for eventual recognition, or to get an offer somewhere else with a better title and have it matched.
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Mar 19, 2013 20:30
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