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Account_Username posted:So is it not normal to have an outside breaker then? There is a panel outside mounted on the same post as the kwh meter to cut off power going into the house where I live. It only has a main breaker + some other breaker in it, all breakers for individual circuits are in the panel inside the house. Every house in the neighborhood is like this, so I don't think ours is an outlier. Would it be because we live in a mobile home (trailer)? All services must have a disconnect within a short distance of the service entrance. For stuff like mobile homes, where the services are built before the houses, then those services must still have a disconnect, so you get an exterior breaker box. If your house is way far back from the road and you can't get the power company to run your service all the way to your house, they put your meter on a pole, you get a disconnect there, and you get to run wire from that point to your panel. Most places have wire from a pole into the top of your meter box, then the meter feeds the main electrical panel directly with no other switching. The "main" in the main panel counts as the service disconnect. Some places have their whole house panel mounted outside next to the meter. It makes resetting tripped breakers fun and exciting in the middle of the night when it's blowing rain.
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Mar 11, 2013 22:22
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Account_Username posted:So is it not normal to have an outside breaker then? There is a panel outside mounted on the same post as the kwh meter to cut off power going into the house where I live. It only has a main breaker + some other breaker in it, all breakers for individual circuits are in the panel inside the house. Every house in the neighborhood is like this, so I don't think ours is an outlier. Would it be because we live in a mobile home (trailer)?
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Mar 11, 2013 23:19
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The fact that it's outside isn't at all unusual, at least to me. In AZ every house I've lived in has the main panel on the outside with the meter; the only times I've had electrical panels indoors have been apartments.
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Mar 11, 2013 23:30
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IOwnCalculus posted:The fact that it's outside isn't at all unusual, at least to me. In AZ every house I've lived in has the main panel on the outside with the meter; the only times I've had electrical panels indoors have been apartments. Shameless plug for my generator thread, btw: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3515309
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Mar 11, 2013 23:54
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IOwnCalculus posted:Probably similar to this (looks like embedding won't work, so skip to 9m40s): I love this guy's videos. So. Much. And he even spliced in scenes from "Pulse"! Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Mar 12, 2013 |
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Mar 12, 2013 01:52
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If you hard-shorted the service cable (lets say pipe wrench across the exposed lugs), would the transformer's fuse/breakers trip before the cables burned your house down? Just how long will it let you weld with those aluminum cables at whatever the short current is (20,000 amps?) I know I've seen fuses on the traditional cylindrical transformers mounted on poles, but in my neighborhood the power is all underground so I wonder if they still use fuses or if its some kind of fancy autoreclosing breaker. I presume there is more protection on that side than the high voltage side?
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Mar 13, 2013 01:00
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Ender.uNF posted:If you hard-shorted the service cable (lets say pipe wrench across the exposed lugs), would the transformer's fuse/breakers trip before the cables burned your house down? Just how long will it let you weld with those aluminum cables at whatever the short current is (20,000 amps?) I know I've seen fuses on the traditional cylindrical transformers mounted on poles, but in my neighborhood the power is all underground so I wonder if they still use fuses or if its some kind of fancy autoreclosing breaker. Outside my house, there was a transformer on the pole. It served three houses. 11.5kV primary, fused at 30A. That's 1500A available on the secondaries, with no protection. Yeah, the aluminum triplex coming down to the house will melt on a steady-state load before the primaries pop. They're not fast-acting fuses, either. I know this because a squirrel shorted the transformer primaries, and blew the fuses; when the guy changed them, I got to keep the dead one.
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Mar 14, 2013 22:41
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Three-Phase posted:I love this guy's videos. So. Much. He's batshit insane in the best way - the kind that lets us all watch him being deadly stupid without getting ourselves hurt. Ender.uNF posted:If you hard-shorted the service cable (lets say pipe wrench across the exposed lugs), would the transformer's fuse/breakers trip before the cables burned your house down? Just how long will it let you weld with those aluminum cables at whatever the short current is (20,000 amps?) I know I've seen fuses on the traditional cylindrical transformers mounted on poles, but in my neighborhood the power is all underground so I wonder if they still use fuses or if its some kind of fancy autoreclosing breaker. If those Photonicinduction videos are any indication, just about as long as you drat well please before everything turns to fire.
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Mar 14, 2013 22:45
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IOwnCalculus posted:He's batshit insane in the best way - the kind that lets us all watch him being deadly stupid without getting ourselves hurt. Most of the stuff he plays with (at least the low voltage, high current stuff) you could put one hand on each wire and never even really feel it. High voltage? Yeah, gotta be careful with that.
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Mar 14, 2013 23:12
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Not sure if this is the best place to ask this, but it seems roughly right. My girlfriend recently purchased a flexible shaft drill in Germany which runs on 240v with a maximum load of 800VA and at 50Hz. She wants to use it in Canada which runs at 120v (ish) and 60Hz. (my understanding is that the Hz difference won't make a huge difference, just make it run a little fast/hot) We got a Hammond 170FE autotransformer that has a capacity of 1000VA and can convert either 115v-230v or 230v-115v depending on the way you wire it. I wired it to go from 115v to 230v and tested the voltage of the output to confirm. I didn't however test the current (my friend lent me his voltmeter and said that it was not capable of testing that amount of current). When I test the drill, it runs VERY slowly. I tried reversing the circuit incase I was just an idiot, and when I did this it did not run at all. What horribly obvious thing am I doing wrong? What stupid miscalculation have I made? What basic understanding do I not have? I have almost no knowledge of electrics that I didn't learn from spending a day on Wikipedia.
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Mar 15, 2013 01:30
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IOwnCalculus posted:
More or less. 25kV short to ground. Eventually the cooling oil heats up enough to burst its way out of containment, instantly catches fire, and now it's 25kV arcing through the flame to another phase, which finally trips the upstream breaker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZipeaAkuC0
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Mar 15, 2013 01:35
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Nuntius posted:Not sure if this is the best place to ask this, but it seems roughly right. grover fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 01:44
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It has a maximum load current of 800va and a 'soft-start' motor, whatever that means. This is the motor It does run, just really really slowly
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Mar 15, 2013 01:47
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IOwnCalculus posted:If those Photonicinduction videos are any indication, just about as long as you drat well please before everything turns to fire. As far as shorting goes, I'd be concerned about arc flash. I've heard about people pulling meters out who got burned from arc flash. Are you religious...? Worst. Arc flash. Ever. Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 02:13
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Nuntius posted:Not sure if this is the best place to ask this, but it seems roughly right. Hard to say for sure without datasheets/schematics, but my best guess is that the softstart is probably designed specifically for 50 Hz.
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Mar 15, 2013 03:14
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Aramoro posted:Indeed it is. I'm just unsure what could cope with the voltages involved. I mean it purposefully creates arcing electricity. Just finding wiring for it was hard enough. All my experience is in digital electronics, so I'm not sure if what I'm looking for is possible or exists even. You should be fine with a solid-state relay on the input side of the coil. Your typical plasma globe is switched on and off with one of those dinky little lamp switches, and there's no arc protection in those things.
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Mar 15, 2013 04:28
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Noctone posted:Hard to say for sure without datasheets/schematics, but my best guess is that the softstart is probably designed specifically for 50 Hz. Would that not mean that it would never start? I don't really understand the soft start. It definately starts, just as if it's not getting enough power, very slow
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Mar 15, 2013 06:31
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Well see that's the thing. The point of a soft start is to ramp power up gradually, rather than just going full bore from the outset. If the controls in the soft start are predicated on a 50 Hz signal, then a 60 Hz signal could possibly be loving with the controls such that the logic never progresses to the point of ramping the power up. This is all wild speculation, though, it's really hard to say without any more technical detail. If I were you I would try to contact the manufacturer.
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Mar 15, 2013 06:44
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Nuntius posted:It has a maximum load current of 800va and a 'soft-start' motor, whatever that means. I suspect the ESC is just super confused by the frequency. It may be a thing to get a 60Hz/120V ESC from the manufacturer. Does the autotransformer get really, really, really hot? Does it buzz a lot? If either, then MAYBE its the transformer not being able to deliver the power required, but more likely, the ESC in the tool thinks the power is brain damaged and won't ramp the motor up.
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Mar 15, 2013 07:11
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thelightguy posted:You should be fine with a solid-state relay on the input side of the coil. Your typical plasma globe is switched on and off with one of those dinky little lamp switches, and there's no arc protection in those things. I was thinking that but I thought the coil might not like getting turned on and off over and over again, I'll give it a go and see what happens.
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Mar 15, 2013 12:20
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What you really want to do is look at both the current and voltage at the same time, and since this thing runs via a variable-speed drive, the current and voltage at the motor terminals should be true-RMS readings. Am I correct in assuming that the drive just acts like a dimmer switch, and basically when the speed is low the motor simply has a very large amount of slip? Or does it actually have an inverter or similar configuration? I'm wondering if the 1KVA autotransformer is "choking off" the current when the motor is trying to start. If the slip is high and the motor is trying to start, even with a soft-starter or VFD you can still potentially pull a lot of current. Not as much as a direct across-the-line starter, but still a lot. (I've had motors that soft-start across a resistor, autotransformer, or reactor (inductor) to cut the voltage seen by the motor, so instead of pulling 3000A line-to-line when they start, they only pull 1500A and then drop and synchronize with a full-load rating of 200A. Full "real deal" variable-speed drive (NOT just a soft-start) starting with a voltage source inverter or a load-commutated current inverter is much gentler on the motor, drivetrain, and electrical system than soft-starting since you can start at like five hertz and then ramp to 60. So like if you have ten 2,000HP water pumps, each pump has two circuit breakers, start and run. Start connects it to the variable-speed drive, it gets up to 60hZ and synchronizes to the bus, both start and run breakers close, then the start breaker opens so the drive can start the next pump up.) Three-Phase fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Mar 15, 2013 |
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Mar 15, 2013 17:45
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If it's a true electronic speed control, then it's using FETs to basically drive the motor via PWM. I'd lean towards the ESC not liking 60Hz power.
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Mar 15, 2013 18:00
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IOwnCalculus posted:If it's a true electronic speed control, then it's using FETs to basically drive the motor via PWM. I'd lean towards the ESC not liking 60Hz power. I appreciate the reply but understand none of it  Could you explain it as if I know nothing aboout electrics? If I can understand what you are saying maybe I can phone the drill manufacturer about it and ask for a solution (the problem there being they only speak german and are 10 hours ahead of me).
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Mar 15, 2013 23:25
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Older drills handled variable speed with a very simple mechanical system - basically using a rheostat to reduce power to the motor when you wanted lower speed. The good things about these is that they're dirt cheap and they don't care what kind of power is passing through them whatsoever - it's just a resistor wire set up in a way that you can vary how much resistance is actually present in the circuit. Essentially, when operating at a speed between 0 and full speed, you are reducing the electrical load created by the motor, by increasing the electrical load created by the resistor. The downside is that they aren't great at fine speed control, they're inefficient, and they can/do wear out as they are mechanical in nature. An electronic speed control is using transistors / other electronic circuits to control the speed of the motor. Instead of adding resistive load to the circuit, they switch the motor on and off very quickly - this allows for better control of the actual motor speed, and better efficiency since you're not wasting electricity in a resistor. The downside is, as an electronic device and not a mechanical one, it may actually be configured in a way where it works best on 230V 50Hz and may not play as nicely on other circuits. Aside from all of these  , if the transformer is somehow limiting current on its own, it may just be undersized for the job. Seems like you could test that by adapting it to an actual 220V circuit in your house and powering it natively, without the transformer?
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Mar 15, 2013 23:45
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Thanks, all very helpful, even if it wasn't 'flip this switch and all your problems are solved'. I'll get a plug for the drill (I cut the last one off to wire it directly to the transformer) and plug it in where the oven is plugged in as I believe that is 220v. My gf is unhappy but I told her that buying a drill not designed to work here, just because it's the 'best' may not be a good idea. edit: she has proposed an idea that may not be terrible, but I can't tell. Her drill comes with the ESC but there is a version that comes without it - literally just an addon extra I believe. Does it sound feesible to open the casing, bypass the ESC circuit (which will be the one attached to the speed dial) and plug it in? Nuntius fucked around with this message at 06:27 on Mar 18, 2013 |
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Mar 16, 2013 01:47
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I want to put up some string lights on my deck and make them easy to turn on and off and dimmable. My current thought is to run an extension cord from one of the exterior outlets to a switch in an exterior box like this: http://www.amazon.com/MM510C-Weathe...rior+outlet+box For the switch I was thinking something like this with a remote. http://www.amazon.com/Lutron-MIR-60...s+dimmer+switch Will this work? Is it a fire risk? Are there better solutions?
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Mar 18, 2013 15:33
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willkill4food posted:I want to put up some string lights on my deck and make them easy to turn on and off and dimmable. All except for the switch box. Extension cords aren't allowed for permanent use. You would have to permanently wire the box that dimmer would be in. Where would you be mounting this switch box? You might be able to get away with putting a weatherproof extension box onto your existing outdoor outlet box, the outlet already there onto the extension box and running some conduit from there to your new switch box. By the way, that's a weatherproof cover, not a box. Also, I've never tried using a remote through a transparent outdoor box cover, but it should work, at least for a few years before the plastic yellows. The bottom opaque half of those boxes does stick out from the outlet however, so that will cut down a bit on the angles you could use your remote from. What bulbs will you be using? Regular dimmers cause problems with non-dimmable versions of both CFL and LED bulbs. They do make special dimmers to dim CFLs, but they aren't perfect. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Mar 18, 2013 |
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Mar 18, 2013 17:52
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How do I found out precisely what I can and can not do to my own home without having to hire someone in my locale or get a permit or whatever? I mean, I suspect I've broken the rules because while I care that everything meets code after the work is done, I just don't care about someone telling me I can't do it myself or whatever. I'm just curious where I'd go to find out, and how I might get some work I've done okayed afterward. So far, I've added a couple circuits to my garage (one 15A and one 20A, both GFCI at the breaker), added a recessed outlet behind my tv, and put in some low voltage AV stuff. I'm sure it all meets spec, but I will be selling this place eventually and I'd like to address any permitting issues sooner rather than later. I'm in Harborcreek, PA (Erie County) if it helps.
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Mar 18, 2013 17:58
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Each of my bedrooms has an outlet that is controlled by the wall switch. We have lamps connected to the outlets, but now want the outlets to be always on, and the switch to control a ceiling light instead. My house is all knob and tube though, and no ground connections from what I can tell. The first picture shows what the existing wiring is, and the second is what I was thinking based on my limited electrical knowledge.  I plan on buying two junction boxes (maybe just need one if the hot and neutral are near each other), pigtail the hot and neutral going to the outlet, and move the black wire going to the outlet to the new ceiling light. Is that ok? There's a shitload of blown in insulation up there and I don't want to start a fire.
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Mar 18, 2013 18:22
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kid sinister posted:All except for the switch box. Extension cords aren't allowed for permanent use. You would have to permanently wire the box that dimmer would be in. Where would you be mounting this switch box? You might be able to get away with putting a weatherproof extension box onto your existing outdoor outlet box, the outlet already there onto the extension box and running some conduit from there to your new switch box. By the way, that's a weatherproof cover, not a box. So splicing an extension cord to a dimmer switch isn't allowed. I wish I could find a wireless outdoor dimmer. They make on/off ones but I can't find a dimmable one. Then I wouldn't need to do any wiring. I like your idea of running a bit of conduit from the outlet to the switch. I was planning on putting the switch on the deck railing. Would some metal conduit work for that? quote:Also, I've never tried using a remote through a transparent outdoor box cover, but it should work, at least for a few years before the plastic yellows. The bottom opaque half of those boxes does stick out from the outlet however, so that will cut down a bit on the angles you could use your remote from. Good point on the remote. IR probably isn't the best choice. You think this one would work better? http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-M...55#.UUdNeb_6c6k And I was planning on using 11v incandescent bulbs.
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Mar 18, 2013 19:09
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Bank posted:Each of my bedrooms has an outlet that is controlled by the wall switch. We have lamps connected to the outlets, but now want the outlets to be always on, and the switch to control a ceiling light instead. Almost no city is going to let you retrofit anything to knob and tube wiring without ripping that entire circuit out and redoing it with proper modern cable and junction boxes. You can generally replace switches and outlets with new ones, but modifying the circuit requires bringing it up to code, for very good reasons. Often old knob and tube wiring is very brittle from people pulling the "penny in the fusebox" trick in the past, and messing with it will crack the insulation off. Also, there's the whole "nobody knows how good those splices hanging in a big pile of blown in insulation are" thing, and the fact that there's no ground and no one is really sure which wire is the neutral.
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Mar 18, 2013 23:54
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also besides all that if there's no constant power at your plug locations you're just essentially putting a light in line by cutting into the switch leg and the receptacles will still be switched..just with the light. honestly you'd probably be better off running a new circuit for a few lights than tampering with the knob and tube because like kastein said, depending on your jurisdiction, you might be required to bring the entire circuit up to code.
crocodile fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 03:11
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crocodile posted:also besides all that if there's no constant power at your plug locations you're just essentially putting a light in line by cutting into the switch leg and the receptacles will still be switched..just with the light. I think the key there was those two Js in the upper left corner, which would re-wire the outlet to be always-on.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:14
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if the only "power" at the plug is the switch leg from the switch location, pigtailing off of it won't change the fact that it's the switch leg. you would have to tie it through at the switch to have constant power to the plug..and run a fresh switch leg up to your light location. but then you run into where to get a neutral from because with knob and tube there is rarely a neutral in a switch box.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:18
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crocodile posted:if the only "power" at the plug is the switch leg from the switch location, pigtailing off of it won't change the fact that it's the switch leg. you would have to tie it through at the switch to have constant power to the plug..and run a fresh switch leg up to your light location. but then you run into where to get a neutral from because with knob and tube there is rarely a neutral in a switch box. Seriously, go look at his diagrams again dude. He wants to do a lot of bad things (which I and others have already covered) but he didn't get that wrong.
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Mar 19, 2013 03:29
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haha you're right, i'm a dumbass. i didn't look at it close enough :-)
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Mar 19, 2013 03:36
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Well, there's no way I'm going to upgrade our wiring because it's going to be a nightmare, so we'll stick it out with switched outlets. Thanks for the input and preventing me from burning down my house. Thread delivers.
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Mar 19, 2013 04:36
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Bad Munki posted:How do I found out precisely what I can and can not do to my own home without having to hire someone in my locale or get a permit or whatever? I mean, I suspect I've broken the rules because while I care that everything meets code after the work is done, I just don't care about someone telling me I can't do it myself or whatever. I'm just curious where I'd go to find out, and how I might get some work I've done okayed afterward. So far, I've added a couple circuits to my garage (one 15A and one 20A, both GFCI at the breaker), added a recessed outlet behind my tv, and put in some low voltage AV stuff. I'm sure it all meets spec, but I will be selling this place eventually and I'd like to address any permitting issues sooner rather than later. I'm in Harborcreek, PA (Erie County) if it helps. Call your local (your zip code) permit office. The permitting department has a great big book of all the prices of everything, and when they're required. My local office has, at the bottom of the permits (above the cost) a big bold section that says "If you are only modifying circuits, not adding or removing, no permit is required. Modifying the main breaker panel, or any work where the meter must be removed, requires a permit." Pretty straightforward.
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Mar 19, 2013 08:39
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willkill4food posted:So splicing an extension cord to a dimmer switch isn't allowed. I wish I could find a wireless outdoor dimmer. They make on/off ones but I can't find a dimmable one. Then I wouldn't need to do any wiring. Splicing a dimmer into an extension cord is allowed, you're just not allowed to use an extension cord all of the time. What kind of metal conduit? You can use EMT with compression fittings, but that will rust and look lovely given enough time. I think you would be better off with some gray PVC. You'll have an easier time running individual wires down it too. Use some THWN cable in black, white and green. You'll probably find THHN in the stores, but nearly 100% of THHN cable is also rated for THWN. Look on the sheathe. And that dimmer should definitely work better.
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Mar 19, 2013 20:49
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kid sinister posted:Splicing a dimmer into an extension cord is allowed, you're just not allowed to use an extension cord all of the time. I ended up getting a 1/2" flexible exterior plastic conduit and some 14 gauge exterior romex. I figured the exterior romex wasn't required but it was only a couple dollars more than the regular romex. My plan is to run that to an exterior box with the dimmer and an outlet inside. And then just plug the lights into that.
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Mar 19, 2013 21:21
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