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SouthLAnd posted:Ford Ecoboost: Horsepower of a V8/V6, fuel economy of a V6/I4! It's not true according to the EPA either. Certainly the 1.6l turbo isn't even competetive with the larger 2.4-2.5l NA 4s, plus the turbo engine is an option that you have to pay for, while the others are base engines.  The 2.0l turbo is barely more efficient than the 3.5l V6s, keeping in mind it's substantially down on power compared to the absurdly powerful Nissan and Honda V6s. 
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Mar 19, 2013 10:09
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You guys are such Debbie Downers, clearly they're just giving the engine a temporary home while they put the finishing touches on the new Fiero Re: Chevy SS, while I wouldn't put it past GM management to think it, there'd be something awful sad to say about Caddy brand image if GM was seriously worried about a Chevy poaching their customers.
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Mar 19, 2013 10:15
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Oh no, the new Bently SUV is literally just going to be a rebadged Touareg. Will there ever be a day when VW finally runs out of brand equity to throw into the fire?
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Mar 19, 2013 17:07
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Throatwarbler posted:Oh no, the new Bently SUV is literally just going to be a rebadged Touareg. They're becoming GM so fast.
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Mar 19, 2013 17:24
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Throatwarbler posted:Oh no, the new Bently SUV is literally just going to be a rebadged Touareg. Isn't the Continental just a rebadged Phaeton? The nice part about über-luxury brands like Bentley, Maserati, and Rolls-Royce is that you don't really have to worry about running out of brand capital. Somebody buying a Bentley isn't really cross-shopping a Benz or Cadillac.
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Mar 19, 2013 18:04
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Cocoa Crispies posted:Isn't the Continental just a rebadged Phaeton? Not quite. It shares the platform and the W12 engine, which is n/a in the Phaeton and twin-turbo in the Bentleys. All of the interior etc. is unique to the Bentley and presumably of higher quality, although I haven't had the chance to sit in either of them.
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Mar 19, 2013 18:11
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Cocoa Crispies posted:Isn't the Continental just a rebadged Phaeton? That's not an insult at all, really. The Phaeton is a lovely car. That said, they certainly do enough to differentiate the brands. The Bentley's interior materials are on a completely different scale. The TT W12 is a torrent of power versus the 4.2 V8 and the 6.0 W12 in the Phaeton. The experience is pretty vastly different.
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Mar 19, 2013 18:53
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KozmoNaut posted:Not quite. It shares the platform and the W12 engine, which is n/a in the Phaeton and twin-turbo in the Bentleys. I have, and you're right. The Phaeton is a nicely trimmed Passat on the inside with unique body panels and the W12/Bentley platform. The Bentleys are bespoke with much better interiors and twin turbo. Similar on paper, drastically different in the flesh.
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Mar 19, 2013 21:17
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The Phaeton has one massive benefit, though. I'm talking about the ridiculous depreciation because it's a luxury car with a VW badge. You can get into a V8 one for cheap and probably score a decent deal on a W12, or even a V10 TDI if you're not in the US. You'd be getting an absolutely amazingly good car, better than an Audi A8 for less money. I'm not a VW fan by any stretch, but it's probably one of the most well-made and all-round greatest automobiles ever made, and definitely the best to ever wear the VW badge.
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Mar 19, 2013 21:32
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How reliable is the V8? Because you're right, the prices on those things are crazy low for what they are. Two of the ones in my area (with around 100k mi each) are under $15,000, and another with 58k mi on it is going for $25,000.
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Mar 19, 2013 21:44
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I thought the maintenance costs on them were obscene, though?
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Mar 19, 2013 21:54
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It's the same engine as in the Audi B6 and B7 S4, which I have pretty much only heard good things about, apart from possible issues with carbon buildup on the back of the valves, due to direct injection. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_petrol_engines#4.2_V8_40v_246-260kW
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Mar 19, 2013 21:56
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Didn't somebody post a ridiculous tire change procedure one time?
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Mar 19, 2013 21:58
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What I always find interesting is that the W12 is actually shorter than the V8, but it's a very... boxy engine. It's kind of like it was grown from seed in a two-and-a-half foot cube container, and it's expanded to fill all the available space.
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Mar 19, 2013 22:00
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KozmoNaut posted:It's the same engine as in the Audi B6 and B7 S4, which I have pretty much only heard good things about, apart from possible issues with carbon buildup on the back of the valves, due to direct injection. Except for $4-6k labor costs when your timing chain guides wear and require the engine to be pulled. 
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Mar 19, 2013 22:13
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DropShadow posted:Except for $4-6k labor costs when your timing chain guides wear and require the engine to be pulled. A note for the uninitiated: This is the firewall end of the motor.
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Mar 19, 2013 22:16
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Fucknag posted:A note for the uninitiated: This is the firewall end of the motor.  how many miles does that typically happen at?
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Mar 19, 2013 22:26
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DropShadow posted:Except for $4-6k labor costs when your timing chain guides wear and require the engine to be pulled. Ia! Ia! Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Winterkorn Ingolstadt wgah'nagl fhtagn!
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Mar 19, 2013 22:29
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DropShadow posted:Except for $4-6k labor costs when your timing chain guides wear and require the engine to be pulled. Now you think about it, timing belts aren't really that bad. Seriously VAG come up with some poo poo engineering ideas. I guess we all know what happened all the engineers who worked for Rover and Austin went to after those companies went belly up
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Mar 19, 2013 22:30
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DropShadow posted:Except for $4-6k labor costs when your timing chain guides wear and require the engine to be pulled. Uh well yeah, there's that tiny little issue as well.
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Mar 19, 2013 22:48
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Somehow VAG always manage to have the most repair procedures that begin with "Step 1: Remove Engine".
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Mar 19, 2013 22:54
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DropShadow posted:Except for $4-6k labor costs when your timing chain guides wear and require the engine to be pulled. I've used that image to convince a few people a used V8 S4 is a terrible idea. It is mind boggling that they'd do that kind of design. That's 1st year rookie level bullshit.
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Mar 19, 2013 23:11
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Guinness posted:Somehow VAG always manage to have the most repair procedures that begin with "Step 1: Remove Engine". Normally due to Audi's Quattro setup, with the engine infront of the front axel basically so everything is jammed forward. This is how you get access to the timing belt in a B5 A4...  loving blows.
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Mar 19, 2013 23:13
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Wasn't there an apocalyptic movie with the heroine driving around in a Bentley? When I saw that I was like, yeah fuckin right. Unless you swapped a XJ drivetrain in there.
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Mar 19, 2013 23:19
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You Am I posted:Now you think about it, timing belts aren't really that bad. Crustashio posted:I've used that image to convince a few people a used V8 S4 is a terrible idea. It is mind boggling that they'd do that kind of design. That's 1st year rookie level bullshit. I posted about this in some other thread, but there's a perfectly good reason why it's done that way? The way Audi/Phaeton/Bentley drive train is set up puts all the weight forward of the front axle and they need to make it so that as much weight as possible sits as far back as possible to improve the poor polar moment of inertia. Timing chains shouldn't need service anyway, just because they might have had a defective part in there doesn't make it a bad design. I'd be more concerned on the new Audis about how they've taken that engine, also reversed the direction of the airflow on the heads and jammed 2 turbos plus the intercooler on top of the exhaust manifold in the valley of the V.   The black plastic runners in the front are the intake tract. Again I get the point of this and I can see the advantages, and the turbos and stuff are even easier to access for all the VAG drivers who apparently love taking their cars apart so much. But man they must have done a lot of work making sure that everything on top there will stand up to the heat of being cheek and jowel with the exhaust. It's a 4.0l engine putting out 500+ hp too, with every bell and whistle - direct injection, cylinder deactivation, infinitely variable valve timing and lift, etc. so you know that nothing on that engine that isn't high-strung. kimbo305 posted:Wasn't there an apocalyptic movie with the heroine driving around in a Bentley? When I saw that I was like, yeah fuckin right. Unless you swapped a XJ drivetrain in there. Yeah, I saw half of it before giving up, to be fair it was set in Britain, so presumably they managed to find enough undead mechanics to keep it running.
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Mar 19, 2013 23:46
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kimbo305 posted:Wasn't there an apocalyptic movie with the heroine driving around in a Bentley? When I saw that I was like, yeah fuckin right. Unless you swapped a XJ drivetrain in there. Yeah, it was called Doomsday. It also featured cannibalistic outlaws dancing the can-can (with the music) while burning people alive.
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Mar 19, 2013 23:47
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I'm going to show my partner the Audi engine pics.... she wants to get an RS4/6/something and holy gently caress the service bills would be spastic. No thanks
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Mar 20, 2013 00:11
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Guinness posted:Somehow VAG always manage to have the most repair procedures that begin with "Step 1: Remove Engine". That was what happened with my VR6 GTI, when the timing chain tensioners wore and the chain slipped. A month of carpooling and $4600 later, it ran like a champ again. Unique engines are super cool, but they are super complicated most of the time.
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Mar 20, 2013 00:29
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I guess that's just the state of modern high-end cars, engineer them so they're absolutely brilliant in every way. Until the lease/warranty runs out, then any procedure more complicated than an oil change means it's off to the auction lot or scrap heap.
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Mar 20, 2013 00:35
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Throatwarbler posted:Timing chains shouldn't need service anyway, just because they might have had a defective part in there doesn't make it a bad design. The timing chain is a lifetime item. The plastic timing chain pad tensioners on the heads are wear items. They're also wedged against the firewall and require dropping the engine to get too. Sometimes those plastic timing chain guard bake themselves enough to get brittle and crack too. The slogan is more like Vorsprung durch hurensohn. Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Mar 20, 2013 |
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Mar 20, 2013 00:47
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SouthLAnd posted:Heated seats are not a rarity in cars these days, and ventilated seats that shoot that cool air up your crack and backside are also becoming more common. Mercedes-Benz though has added a new seat feature in their new S-Class. Reversing fans! That is frickin' gorgeous looking. Oooooooohhhh.... EDIT: Is this a new thing where more cars seem to prefer a 4 seater than a 5 with the center thing running all the way to the back? Like the Panamera or CLS? Gatts fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Mar 20, 2013 |
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Mar 20, 2013 00:49
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SouthLAnd posted:Heated seats are not a rarity in cars these days, and ventilated seats that shoot that cool air up your crack and backside are also becoming more common. Mercedes-Benz though has added a new seat feature in their new S-Class. Reversing fans! Does this mean that, if you want to smoke with the windows up, it will suck the smoke out of the cabin for you? That could end up being really popular in cold climates with smokers (and Mercedes, unlike many other automakers, actually provides well-located ashtrays for passengers).
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Mar 20, 2013 01:08
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Gatts posted:That is frickin' gorgeous looking. Oooooooohhhh.... The Panamera is packaged in such a way that the drivetrain impinges on the cabin quite a bit; there was no way it could ever have been a five-seater. Beyond that, the Chinese use cars like this as limos and would rather not have the middle seat.
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Mar 20, 2013 01:39
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MrChips posted:The Panamera is packaged in such a way that the drivetrain impinges on the cabin quite a bit; there was no way it could ever have been a five-seater. Beyond that, the Chinese use cars like this as limos and would rather not have the middle seat. It might be different for Panameras but most Chinese cars are not Panameras, they are FWD Audis with 5 seats.
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Mar 20, 2013 01:47
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Gatts posted:That is frickin' gorgeous looking. Oooooooohhhh.... Most S Classes had four seater options for a few models now. You can still get five seat in S Class
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Mar 20, 2013 01:48
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D C posted:Normally due to Audi's Quattro setup, with the engine infront of the front axel basically so everything is jammed forward. That picture is a little deceiving; putting a B5 into service mode is pretty straight-forward and only takes 30-45 minutes (probably much less with experience) and the benefit is that you have all the room that you need to work. I'd rather do a timing belt job on a Passat than a Jetta.
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Mar 20, 2013 02:15
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Throatwarbler posted:It might be different for Panameras but most Chinese cars are not Panameras, they are FWD Audis with 5 seats. A4L yo
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Mar 20, 2013 02:58
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Throatwarbler posted:I posted about this in some other thread, but there's a perfectly good reason why it's done that way? The way Audi/Phaeton/Bentley drive train is set up puts all the weight forward of the front axle and they need to make it so that as much weight as possible sits as far back as possible to improve the poor polar moment of inertia. Timing chains shouldn't need service anyway, just because they might have had a defective part in there doesn't make it a bad design. Ford has done this with their 6.7 diesel as well, although with their witchcraft dual compressor turbo instead of twin turbos. Considering the guys who chipped them up to 425whp/825wft/lbs strait out of the box aren't having issues, i wouldn't be all that worried about that cute little audi engine. 
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Mar 20, 2013 03:00
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:A4L yo There are at least 3 Panameras in the neighbourhood where I currently live, at least 2 of them in this weird puke green. They are much uglier in person than they are in photos, if that's possible to imagine. Powershift posted:Ford has done this with their 6.7 diesel as well, although with their witchcraft dual compressor turbo instead of twin turbos. Considering the guys who chipped them up to 425whp/825wft/lbs strait out of the box aren't having issues, i wouldn't be all that worried about that cute little audi engine. Yep, it's actually the ideal way to do turbocharging on a V8, because it allows the exhaust from both heads to feed both turbos. The problem is that exhaust temps for a gasoline engine are usually 2x that of a diesel, and the gas engine is making more power with almost 40% less displacement. The Ford also at least has the intercooler mounted somewhere else, the Audi intercooler looks like it's 4 inches away from the turbos and exhaust.
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Mar 20, 2013 03:14
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Guinness posted:Somehow VAG always manage to have the most repair procedures that begin with "Step 1: Remove Engine". Doesn't one of the old Passat models have some sensor that likes to fail that requires you to drop the engine? I still remember seeing a b5 S4 in the shop for new turbos for the first time. You'd be shocked to learn that the engine was not in the car.
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Mar 20, 2013 04:48
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