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Speaking of weird anvils, I've always had a huuuuuge soft spot for traditional Chinese anvils.  
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Mar 16, 2013 17:05
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| # ? May 23, 2024 12:56 |
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I went to my first smithing class Thursday night. I got to work shaping some 3/8" square stock within an hour of the class starting. A couple hours later I went home with this: It isn't perfect, but I am happy with the results. I did have problems forming the tip of a taper. The thin metal cools so fast, I ended up cracking the tips. I just wanted those last few hits before putting it back in the heat source. The entire process felt so natural to me, almost like shaping clay- with a hammer. I am already trying to think of where I could set up a forge in my yard and keeping an eye out for anvils on craigslist. I still need to research what kind of heat source I'd use.
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Mar 16, 2013 19:58
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One of us... one of us...
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Mar 16, 2013 23:13
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CopperHound posted:I went to my first smithing class Thursday night. I got to work shaping some 3/8" square stock within an hour of the class starting. A couple hours later I went home with this: Extremely impressive for a first timer! Where is the class and who is your teacher? If you are anywhere around Philadelphia, I can get you set up with an anvil or 20. Edit: Speaking of anvils, I have been wanting to do this for over a year now, but AbsentMindedWelder and I started talking about some spring plans for repairing my main forging anvil. The face has been heavily worked and is concave with the lowest point being about 1/4 inch lower than the edges. The plan is to build it all up with weld material, grind everything flat, then heat that bitch to non-magnetic and quench it, then draw a temper. It is a late 1800s Mousehole weighing about 240 pounds. It is wrought iron with a steel face. I need to do a little research on the proper welding rods to use, as I want them to be tool steel rods. I will probably end up getting a machine shop with a surface grinder to do the final finish on the anvil face once it is hardened and tempered. Super excited about that project. The only part that I haven't figured out is what I am going to quench it in. A friend has an broken hot-tub out back of his house that would make an interesting quench tank, but I don't know what I will do. Any ideas? I'm concerned that a 55 gallon drum will not be enough water to cool the anvil as fast as I want. Part 1 and 2 of a guy restoring an anvil like I plan to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i2fYo9zF_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5noM1NnXeE iForge fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 01:50
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Sadly I'm on the opposite side of the country. My class is taught by a guy named Brooks Collier in Auburn, CA. The class cost me $104 including materials and consists of 5 three hour sessions. Money well spent in my opinion. A huge amount of anvils I see for sale look like they have pretty rough faces. Are these made with relatively soft steel, or is it pretty much normal. Does it realy matter that much or I took a peek at that video. Watching that guy put that heavy grinding wheel on there with no guard made me nervous. None of the anvils I had used in class had the rebound he had at the end there. CopperHound fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 07:02
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CopperHound posted:Sadly I'm on the opposite side of the country. My class is taught by a guy named Brooks Collier in Auburn, CA. The class cost me $104 including materials and consists of 5 three hour sessions. Money well spent in my opinion. A smooth anvil is ideal but not required... A smooth anvil face gives you a smooth finish on your work piece while a pitted/dented one will leave marks on your piece. I think that guy did a really nice job on his anvil restoration. Quenching in the river was certainly an interesting method...
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Mar 17, 2013 13:07
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Been a while since I posted here, but here's some of my projects from the past year or so. I also can't remember if I've posted some of these in this thread yet or not.       Everything there is made of armorplate steel, except the axe, which is just high carbon steel, at around 60 on the hardness scale. I've been practicing some woodcarving lately, so expect some more intricate knife handles in the future.
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Mar 17, 2013 17:35
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iForge posted:A friend has an broken hot-tub out back of his house that would make an interesting quench tank, but I don't know what I will do. Any ideas? I'm concerned that a 55 gallon drum will not be enough water to cool the anvil as fast as I want. When I was doing blacksmithing at The Crucible, after a couple of hours of class, the 55 gallon drum water would be piping hot. I think it's not enough water for your purposes - it'll heat up too fast during quenching. The hot tub might work. Actually it might be ideal if it has jets (not bubbles, just the jets), because that would allow you to circulate the water without having to swish the anvil around. The main concern is that you're going to have scale flaking off into the tub, so uh, I dunno if that's bad for the filters or whatever. I'd probably want to siphon out the water and fully replace it before using it for bathing. Watching that video, he got decent results but I was concerned with how long the anvil spent out of the fire before it went into the quench. If you could rig some kind of crane with chains and a lifting arm, so you could just swing it up out of your fire and straight into the water in a few seconds, you'd get a better quench. Maybe an engine hoist?
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Mar 17, 2013 19:17
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Leperflesh posted:When I was doing blacksmithing at The Crucible, after a couple of hours of class, the 55 gallon drum water would be piping hot. I think it's not enough water for your purposes - it'll heat up too fast during quenching. The hot tub is broken and destined for the junkyard. It holds water, but is useless otherwise. I could use a garden hose or 2 to circulate the water or try to rig up a pump... I noticed the same about how long it was out of the fire before quenching. The way I saw it, they should have just walked it into the river and swished it around a bit. iForge fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 20:21
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Here's a couple hundred hours of my life since August. Most of the slabs in the middle assemble together into a benchtop shear, still need to saw out and file the blade and finish the heads on those screws and it'l be ready to go.
shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Mar 17, 2013 |
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Mar 17, 2013 21:06
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God drat, I go away for a week and there's all kinds of awesome poo poo happening. Good on all of you guys, that's some nice friggin stuff there.
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Mar 18, 2013 07:04
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iForge posted:The hot tub is broken and destined for the junkyard. It holds water, but is useless otherwise. I could use a garden hose or 2 to circulate the water or try to rig up a pump... I suppose there's a significant concern of walking into the water, having someone trip, and dropping a thousand degree anvil on his leg. I can definitely understand not wanting to go into that murky water under those conditions. If you had a place with better footing (maybe a concrete boat ramp or something) it might be less risky.
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Mar 18, 2013 19:09
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Could always take something like the hot tub next to a river with a gasoline powered pump to pump fresh river water into the bottom of the tub, and just let it overfill into another hose near the top and send it back in the river.
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Mar 18, 2013 19:16
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You could also rent access to a fire hydrant if you need a big flow of water and no large body of water is nearby.
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Mar 18, 2013 19:27
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Well I talked to a professional about it... I will need around 2500 gallons of water in a closed vessel, or access to a lake or river to do it properly. I would need to heat it to 1600 degrees, which will take several hours like I expected. He told me that the amount of money that I will pay in fuel to maintain a big enough fire for 6+ hours, I ought to just get it professionally heat treated. I requested a quote from a local heat treating shop, so I'll see what they charge....
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Mar 19, 2013 00:33
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Well, based on that video, you don't need to heat the entire anvil to 1600: just the work face you want to harden. It might still cost a lot in fuel, depending on the efficiency of your fire, though. But my wife has a kiln that fires to cone 10, holds it for an hour, and then cools, on electricity, for something like $20 of electricity. It's big enough to fit an anvil in it, probably. She'd never let me do it because of scale flaking off and damaging the kiln bricks, and also you're not supposed to just pop open a 2200 degree kiln mid-fire to pull things out (it's not built to handle that kind of thermal shock), but my point is that it doesn't have to cost that much. I don't see why you couldn't do it with a leaf blower and maybe three big bags of charcoal or coal.
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Mar 19, 2013 00:41
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iForge posted:Stuff about quenching I have had this in the back of my head and decided to do some math with the assumptions that your hot tub is ~300 gallons (2400lbs), the upper critical temperature of your steel is 800*C, we're aiming to cool the steel to 40*C, heat capacity of steel is 0.5 kJ/kg, and heat capacity of water is 4 kJ/kg. I get to mix metric and imperial units because I am canceling them all out. gently caress yeah. (240lb anvil / 2400lb water) * (0.5kJ/kg / 4kJ/kg) * (800*C-40*C) = 9.5*C I make a lot of assumptions, but I figure if your hot tub is close to that size it will work for the quench and raise the temperature of your water maybe 10*C. These numbers are ignoring the huge amount of energy that goes into boiling water and assuming uniform agitation (jets on sounds like a good idea to me). Plugging in the 55 gallon drum real quick looks like it will get the water hot enough to make a stew. Disclaimer: that I have no experience doing any sort of tempering and I started writing this before seeing the last two posts. CopperHound fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 00:41
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I'm more worried about the quenching scenario. I bet some insulating fire brick, and my (now world famous) waste oil burner should get the heating done for next to nothing. Edit: I am curious to see what the quote from the heat treating shop is. If it's reasonably priced I'm sure they can do a better quality job. Edit2: iForge, do I recall correctly your neighbor has a pool? We'll just wait for a day where he's out of town. AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 00:50
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CopperHound posted:I have had this in the back of my head and decided to do some math with the assumptions that your hot tub is ~300 gallons (2400lbs), the upper critical temperature of your steel is 800*C, we're aiming to cool the steel to 40*C, heat capacity of steel is 0.5 kJ/kg, and heat capacity of water is 4 kJ/kg. He did some math and it is a matter of getting the anvil from 1600 degrees to 800 in a matter of a couple seconds to get the grains to crystallize properly, and then dropping the temperature below 400 very quickly after that. This will all involve circulating the water or moving the anvil around very fast. Lots of technical details that I know little about. He has been a blacksmith longer than I have been alive, so I'm inclined to trust that he knows what he is talking about. The hot tub does not work. It holds water, but the jets don't work, so it is out. AbsentMindedWelder posted:I'm more worried about the quenching scenario. I bet some insulating fire brick, and my (now world famous) waste oil burner should get the heating done for next to nothing. You just had to put in a plug for the Moya burner didn't you? The neighbor's pool is off limits. I wouldn't want to try it even with his permission. It has a rubber liner and one wrong move will melt a hole in it, not to mention the possibile chlorine inhalation hazard... I'll text you when they send me a quote. iForge fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Mar 19, 2013 |
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Mar 19, 2013 01:14
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Guess who has two thumbs and just stumbled upon The Very Rewarding Art of Still Manufacture and is now entranced by the possibility of building myself a fancy copper pot or reflux still for cheap spirits.
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Mar 19, 2013 01:42
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While the idea of heat treating that anvil sounds really very interesting and exciting, I'm also becoming dubious that you'd be able to do it successfully. I would be concerned that the anvil would cool unevenly and have varied hardness, and without a good hoist the potential to splash boiling hot water all over you sounds very high. That 55 gallon drum would have definitely resulted in a geyser. I would only do it along side someone with experience. Maybe you could talk to the professional heat treater, see if he'd let you participate.
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Mar 21, 2013 04:06
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Backyard Blacksmith posted:Been a while since I posted here, but here's some of my projects from the past year or so. I also can't remember if I've posted some of these in this thread yet or not. This design is really interesting, but doesn't that big-rear end hole right at the juncture between the blade and the handle create an extremely thin cross-section? Or is the bolster really thick and I just can't see it?
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Mar 21, 2013 04:47
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Well, I talked to the guy at the heat treating shop. He said that there is a major concern with heat treating the anvil. He is afraid that the anvil will crack due to there being multiple types of metal all in one huge mass. He wouldn't even give me a price, saying he would need to look at the anvil in person first. I need recommendations for a good rod to weld this anvil up with. I'd want a tool steel electrode preferably.
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Mar 21, 2013 22:48
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iForge posted:I need recommendations for a good rod to weld this anvil up with. I'd want a tool steel electrode preferably. This is going to be way, way harder than you're probably assuming. If you're going to deposit hard steel, you need a big, big extremely even preheat, weld, maintain the heat, and then an even and slow post heat and cooldown. And then the weld still might crack. You've got to find an electrode that gets awfully close to the hardness of whatever the anvil top is made of, or the pre/post heat might still crack it even if you're heats are perfect. That said, I've rebuilt some concrete mixers with Alcam #81, which hits somewhere around 55-65ish RC. It's sort of a bitch of a rod though. e: You might try looking into hardface rod or something similar if you can't find #81. It might take some research, hardface rod is usually used on mild steel excavator/etc buckets for impact/abrasion resistance, but it REALLY loves to crack and welds like poo poo. Hardface rod has a shitload of manganese, which probably would be a big problem when you heat treat. I believe tool steel is generally very low manganese. Hypnolobster fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Mar 21, 2013 |
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Mar 21, 2013 23:07
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Hypnolobster posted:This is going to be way, way harder than you're probably assuming. If you're going to deposit hard steel, you need a big, big extremely even preheat, weld, maintain the heat, and then an even and slow post heat and cooldown. And then the weld still might crack. You've got to find an electrode that gets awfully close to the hardness of whatever the anvil top is made of, or the pre/post heat might still crack it even if you're heats are perfect. I'm starting to think that I just need to weld it up with 7018, grind it, and use it. No heat treat, no special welding rods... If it gets damaged again, I'll just weld the bitch again. How does 7018 rate against other welding rods for hardness of the bead? That is the rod that was recommended for me to use. I'm not the best welder, so a rod that I don't have to whip will save me a LOT of time grinding out my fuckups.
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Mar 22, 2013 02:06
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7018 is what you want, preheat to around 400 degrees, call it a day. I agree, at this point welding and grinding as necessary is the best course of action. Besides, you already know how to run 7018, why learn another rod.
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Mar 22, 2013 02:09
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You could use like a 9018 or similar like 10018/11018. It will have similar welding properties as the 7018 and have higher hardness. Also 400f preheat too!
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Mar 22, 2013 04:02
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It's all coming back to me, thanks Smokey for the kick in the head.... 70, 80, 90, 100, 110 prefix indicates the tensile strength of the steel. The 18 indicates how the rod burns and what type of flux it has.
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Mar 22, 2013 04:04
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The 18 in 7018 means it's got a low-hydrogen coating, so there is less hydrogen inclusion in the weld. It's a bit harder to work with, but will produce sounder beads. The arc electrodes are all numbered by * ksi tensile strength, so a 5011 is rated for 50,000 psi as-laid, 6011 is rated for 60,000 psi, etc.
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Mar 22, 2013 04:33
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Well I guess I will pick up a can of 9018 in the next week or so and get to work on it soon. We should have enough firebrick to make a serviceable preheat box.
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Mar 22, 2013 04:45
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Just stole an old brake-drum out of someone's curbside garbage. Maybe, god willing, I can now replace the "slumpy, crumbly continually-spalling-in-use-from-absorbed-humidity" clay sculpted firebowl I'm currently using. E: Although now that I've got oxyacetylene tank/torches, it might be in my interest to learn how to weld sheet/plate decently and then wizard myself up a proper firebowl out of 1/4" plate.
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Mar 22, 2013 15:08
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Persiflagist posted:This design is really interesting, but doesn't that big-rear end hole right at the juncture between the blade and the handle create an extremely thin cross-section? Or is the bolster really thick and I just can't see it? It's been heat treated to resist bending and breaking, so I'm not too worried about it. It also feels really solid in my hands, and the only way I could bend it in the first place was by clamping in in a vise, heating it with a welding torch, sliding a pipe over the blade and pulling on the pipe. That steel is stupid hard to begin with. It's armorplate.
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Mar 22, 2013 18:40
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Well I decided to have a go at grinding out the lovely spots on the anvil to prepare for welding. I'm not done grinding, but I wanted to share a few things I came across in the process. In the first pic, you can really see how sunk the face is. Before shot:  So I am grinding and see that there is a piece of the steel literally ready to break off the edge, so I chisel it off and keep grinding. After a couple hits with the chisel:  I move my way to the heel and see a crack that goes around the corner of the heel and decide to take the chisel to it a few times to make the crack more pronounced so I can see how far it goes. This big piece lifted off! Considering how rusty the metal inside the crack is, it has been cracked for a long time....   I have a lot of work ahead of me.......
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Mar 23, 2013 01:11
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I'm actually quite amazed that chunk didn't fly out through "normal" use of the anvil up until now.
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Mar 23, 2013 01:33
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Would there be any benefit to dye penetrant for anvil crackfinding? Or is visual inspection good enough.
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Mar 23, 2013 02:10
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Usually when I want to find cracks in something, I'll start sanding it smooth, and blowing/rinsing off the dust, once you get a fairly uniform surface you will begin to see if there are any small fractures.
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Mar 23, 2013 06:08
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I had to grind the chipped sections out on the anvil edges anyway, and that's really how I started finding cracks. I went over the semi-clean edges and found a couple more. That is how I found the issue on the heel. I plan to grind all the edges of the anvil face to check for any other cracks, since the edges are worn and sunk. I will remove all the bad sections that I find and fill them in with weld metal. I called for a price on 9018 and it is $5 per pound of electrodes, so it is well within my budget of $150 for the welding and grinding supplies. I still haven't heard back from the machine shop that I requested a quote from for running a surface grinder over the face, but I am thinking that I will probably just use an angle grinder, a straight edge, and some patience to do it myself.
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Mar 23, 2013 06:35
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This picture was taken today. Those of you who remember a certain project I started a long time ago will know what that means.
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Mar 23, 2013 20:37
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AbsentMindedWelder posted:This picture was taken today. Those of you who remember a certain project I started a long time ago will know what that means. Care to enlighten the rest of us? Not everyone has been in the thread the whole time.
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Mar 23, 2013 20:42
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| # ? May 23, 2024 12:56 |
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A while ago I purchased a South Bend 13" lathe. (It's a short bed) I started paint stripping, cleaning and repainting it. I completed the pedestal, leg and lathe bed, and got part way thru the headstock. poo poo happened, didn't touch it for a couple years here we are. The goal now is to paint the headstock, reassemble the spindle, assemble headstock and spindle with new lubrication felts and oil cups, test for proper bearing clearance and then get the motor spinning with the VFD and a belt between the pulleys. Then verify that the spindle spins and the bearings are happy at "full speed". Following that, I will clean up the rest of sliding metal surfaces on the carriage, replace lubrication felts in the gearbox and apron, and then reassemble the lathe as is and get it running. I will not do any more paint stripping and painting, and will revisit that part of the project in the future. (Probably when I purchase a more modern gear head lathe that can cut both metric and SAE threads) After that I'll work on the Lagun Republic milling machine.  Edit: Thanks to archives.org for saving this image because I have no idea which HDD has these pics on them. AbsentMindedWelder fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Mar 23, 2013 |
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Mar 23, 2013 21:07
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